Games [GAME OVER] Tiberian Sun: Reborn Mafia I

[Voe]

5 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

I'm pretty certain it wasn't that difficult to realize Orange had a unique role in game, he did basically tell everyone. Considering that he does have a unique role, that makes him more of a threat than other roles, and as such a higher priority to kill than a vanilla role.

In the absence of a better target, he's a really good target for the NK to make certain you get rid of a annoying role you'd have to deal with later on. And there's no guaranteed that he was telling the truth about his night action either, and he had made up his claim to hide his real ability.

He may not be the best NK target to go after, but he's still probably a better NK target than randomly trying to pick from the remaining players who has an actual power role.

All of what you say is true. But why kill him (and risk a failed NK if what Orange was saying was true), rather than pushing for a lynch today?

They could have NK'd him tomorrow had they failed. Which would have been a better idea given Orange stated he'd be taking flight Night 1.

[Shade939]

Just now, ChopBam said:

If this was true, why wouldn't they have gone after Jeod, with his "I have a higher kill chance" claim?

You tell me? I was pointing out that it really wasn't that outlandish to go after Orange.

[iLikeToSnipe]

4 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

He may not be the best NK target to go after, but he's still probably a better NK target than randomly trying to pick from the remaining players who has an actual power role.

I don't think we can reason too much into why scum tried to kill Orange. There are so many different motivations and I don't think we have enough to reliably determine one.

Examples:

1. Try to frame somebody who was pushing a case on Orange
2. Pick a most likely target for an NK, assume they will be protected, and go for second best target
3. Take out a veteran player who is good at scum hunting
4. Take out a player they believe has a power role (a veteran player with a power role is more dangerous than a veteran player with a vanilla role)
5. Stop Orange from increasing his internet points
6. etc

If anything, possible motivation for the kill should be supporting evidence rather than primary evidence. I think it is always a good idea to look back at players who give off scum vibes and see if their behavior ties into a potential plot that involves killing the player who died. Nothing comes to mind right now, but there's just been too much content for me to follow.

[Jeod]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

You tell me? I was pointing out that it really wasn't that outlandish to go after Orange.

ITT shade tells us why he chose the nightkill.

[Voe]

I'd like to hear from the inactives. Cat5, Anon_Cat, Irishman, Fraydo.

[ChopBam]

6 minutes ago, Voe said:

But why kill him (and risk a failed NK if what Orange was saying was true)

Would the #neurotoxin action supercede somebody taking flight (unblockable?) or only work for medic actions, you think?

[ChopBam]

6 minutes ago, Jeod said:

ITT shade tells us why he chose the nightkill.

The Shadeboi sounds like he could co-write OJ Simpson's book "If I Did It."

[Voe]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

Would the #neurotoxin action supercede somebody taking flight (unblockable?) or only work for medic actions, you think?

You would need to ask the Toxin Trooper. The role sheet only mentions the medic, but it would have been a poop unblockable kill if it could be stopped by the dig in.

[Shade939]

3 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Would the #neurotoxin action supercede somebody taking flight (unblockable?) or only work for medic actions, you think?

I'd assume only the medic actions, it seems like it's supposed to be a hard counter to the medic role protecting a player.

[ChopBam]

Just now, Shade939 said:

I'd assume only the medic actions, it seems like it's supposed to be a hard counter to the medic role protecting a player.

Time for some more mathspeak.

Out of the [supposedly 9] town players, [supposedly] 5 of them (light infantry) get fortifications which can block a nightkill. We also learn that Orange had some kind of role which [supposedly] could evade nightkills. There is just 1 medic who can just choose 1 target each night. Are you suggesting that the neurotoxin action would only work for the medic, who could do so much limited saving, and not for the broader nightkill stoppers which [supposedly] comprise most of the town team?

[Shade939]

Just now, ChopBam said:

Time for some more mathspeak.

Out of the [supposedly 9] town players, [supposedly] 5 of them (light infantry) get fortifications which can block a nightkill. We also learn that Orange had some kind of role which [supposedly] could evade nightkills. There is just 1 medic who can just choose 1 target each night. Are you suggesting that the neurotoxin action would only work for the medic, who could do so much limited saving, and not for the broader nightkill stoppers which [supposedly] comprise most of the town team?

The worst case scenario for Nod, the Cop reveals themselves while the Medic is still hidden, how do you kill the Cop without finding the Medic first now? They can also use the Mutant role to help out with that, so it's not like killing a single Nod player cost them the game then.

[ChopBam]

2 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

The worst case scenario for Nod, the Cop reveals themselves while the Medic is still hidden, how do you kill the Cop without finding the Medic first now? They can also use the Mutant role to help out with that, so it's not like killing a single Nod player cost them the game then.

Cop is weak since 1) he can be insane (which makes the role useless for one night at least) and 2) the reports can be wrong because chameleon spies counter them. The cop can never be sure of his reports unless he gets a guilty reading after learning his sanity.

[Shade939]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

Cop is weak since 1) he can be insane (which makes the role useless for one night at least) and 2) the reports can be wrong because chameleon spies counter them. The cop can never be sure of his reports unless he gets a guilty reading after learning his sanity.

Chameleon spies get jammed results when they fire there weapons, giving GDI an easy way to out them. And why if you're under suspicions you should really consider shooting your weapon....

[Voe]

9 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

The worst case scenario for Nod, the Cop reveals themselves while the Medic is still hidden, how do you kill the Cop without finding the Medic first now? They can also use the Mutant role to help out with that, so it's not like killing a single Nod player cost them the game then.

Nod could have a watcher role.

[ChopBam]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Chameleon spies get jammed results when they fire there weapons, giving GDI an easy way to out them. And why if you're under suspicions you should really consider shooting your weapon....

Couple of notes:

1. Cops also have a 50% stuck chance.
2. Anybody who fortified last night would not be able to fire their weapon today.

But beyond that I'm still not so sure why you're so stuck on this idea of anybody whose weapon gets stuck is automatically a spy, because it can literally happen to any character.

[Shade939]

2 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Couple of notes:

1. Cops also have a 50% stuck chance.
2. Anybody who fortified last night would not be able to fire their weapon today.

But beyond that I'm still not so sure why you're so stuck on this idea of anybody whose weapon gets stuck is automatically a spy, because it can literally happen to any character.

The guaranteed is anyone without a stuck weapon can't be a spy.

[Shade939]

And 75% odds of proving you're not a Spy are pretty good.

[ChopBam]

3 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

And 75% odds of proving you're not a Spy are pretty good.

That's not a good reason alone to fire a shot. You need a viable target first because there is also chance of success.

[Shade939]

Just now, ChopBam said:

That's not a good reason alone to fire a shot. You need a viable target first because there is also chance of success.

It's a really good reason to fire your shot, and a large part of how the day kills should be used for this game.

[ChopBam]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

It's a really good reason to fire your shot, and a large part of how the day kills should be used for this game.

No, it's really not. There are still two scum roles who don't have a 100% stuck chance. Don't just shoot at random people to prove you're not a spy. 

[Shade939]

Just now, ChopBam said:

No, it's really not. There are still two scum roles who don't have a 100% stuck chance. Don't just shoot at random people to prove you're not a spy. 

The main point is though despite the benefits of proving you're not a spy, there are other drawbacks in game that counterbalance that point. And even if you prove you're not a spy, it's not that helpful if all of the spies get killed off by other means, or the cop doesn't investigate you, or you could prove your alignment through some other action during the game.

[ChopBam]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

The main point is though despite the benefits of proving you're not a spy, there are other drawbacks in game that counterbalance that point. And even if you prove you're not a spy, it's not that helpful if all of the spies get killed off by other means, or the cop doesn't investigate you, or you could prove your alignment through some other action during the game.

Thank you for furthering my point for me. The only time I can see it being helpful to prove you're not a spy is by process of elimination, such as killing off the other scum roles so not being a spy means you're not scum, which is still not foolproof because it's not an open setup.

[iLikeToSnipe]

23 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

It's a really good reason to fire your shot, and a large part of how the day kills should be used for this game.

How about we all prove ourselves by shooting Shade.

[Shade939]

42 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

How about we all prove ourselves by shooting Shade.

Sure, I give iLikeToSnipe permission to use his day kill to shoot me.

[iLikeToSnipe]

24 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Sure, I give iLikeToSnipe permission to use his day kill to shoot me.

[Retaliation]

I'm really sad Orange is dead because I wanted to see some sweet wagon analysis.

[Shade939]

1 minute ago, Retaliation said:

I'm really sad Orange is dead because I wanted to see some sweet wagon analysis.

That probably wouldn't come up till later on, and you have multiple votes to consider.

As is, at the moment we can mainly examine who did vote for Mojoman and who didn't, and there reasoning behind those votes.

[Retaliation]

8 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

That probably wouldn't come up till later on, and you have multiple votes to consider.

As is, at the moment we can mainly examine who did vote for Mojoman and who didn't, and there reasoning behind those votes.

I still wanted to see it :[

Does anyone anyone have a wagonomics for dummies primer?

[Shade939]

1 minute ago, Retaliation said:

I still wanted to see it :[

Does anyone anyone have a wagonomics for dummies primer?

For one thing, you notice things like who didn't vote for Mojoman since Scum wouldn't want to be part of a wagon on a Town player.

[ChopBam]

4 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

For one thing, you notice things like who didn't vote for Mojoman since Scum wouldn't want to be part of a wagon on a Town player.

Join the wagon -> scummy for joining the wagon.
Don't join the wagon -> scummy for not joining the wagon.