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Hiring People to Make More Maps


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I am suggesting setting up a fund to pay freelancers or really anyone with the skill or time to create new maps for IA, or revamp existing ones to better improve their balance and biases. I don't think anyone would disagree the weakest part of IA is the maps, as they're largely old and repurposed, and the game and units have changed and outgrown what was once a very basic Renegade mod. Increases to the ranges of units alone have greatly altered the flow, and really decide which maps are favored for which team at this point. But creating or changing a map is much harder and more time consuming than changing the stats of a gun or a tank.

And it's unfair to expect Kaskins and dblaney to both make and add new units and make balance changes to existing units AND revamp existing maps AND add new maps and do it all for basically free. So I'm suggesting setting up a fund for that reason. To bring an extra mapper or two into IA. 

Now, this is just to gauge interest in people contributing to the fund, and how much they think they could contribute. I of course, would be more than willing to help fund it, but I'm not looking to blow my life savings on this solo, so this would very much need to be a community driven thing. If there is actual interest in such a thing, then we can discuss specifics such as who would handle the group fund (probably kaskins or dblaney?) and how much we could actually front for it. 

So just let me know if you'd be interested in such a thing, or if you have a better idea. 

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2 minutes ago, notDMB said:

I am suggesting setting up a fund to pay freelancers or really anyone with the skill or time to create new maps for IA.

While I do agree to this, it comes with a couple things that are special to IA in my opinion.

- To really make efficient maps for this game you have to understand the game in the first place which I don't think any free lancer has ever heard of or played Interim Apex. This therefor makes it hard to design a map with zero knowledge of the game. What may look good in Call of Duty may actually just be a place where Nod can place all their artillery and blow up GDI base in seconds.

- I haven't looked so I'm not going to exclude it out. But I would imagine many free lancers work on projects that deal with industry standard stuff like UE4. What this means is that a free lancer would have to learn how to use Renegade Map Maker or whatever it's called. 

- I've talked to Yap many times about this and for some reason he keeps saying that he wants for GDI to have the advantage on maps. Although this has lead to Nod having a major uphill battle nearly every round due to defenses that kill themselves, GDI getting an AGT while Nod gets nothing, defenses that can't hit a moving target (Flame Tower, Turrets, Tick Tank, Vanquisher Turret), and the Laser Turret having 1/4th the health that the GDI Pillbox does. As a result if a map was made by someone else that's not Yap I don't know if he would like it because he wants GDI to have the advantage or playstyle mentioned.

- The requirements of making someone make a map would dictate an increased price to learn the material. If it's someone from here that already knows what to do and would do it for $ like the APB Team. Then I could see it working.

Saying this, the problem with the maps in IA after playing for so long is that GDI has a better base. The ADATS is WAY better, the gun towers are slightly better and the MANTIS 35mm is better. In addition most maps like I said have an AGT that slows everything down for Nod. For example.
Maps which I consider extremely good and I believe a lot of other people do as well are 
- Hidden Valley
- Infinite Isle (debatable)
- Vile_Facility (New)
- Urban_Conflict (The Vehicle and Infantry Map. NOT Infantry only)
- Blazing Sands (Debatable but still a fun time)
- Cold_River

Why are these maps favorited? Well Vile_Facility  (New) started to get rave reviews after the removal of AGT. I also believe this applies to Urban conflict. It speeds up gameplay tremendously and helps Nod on a level playing field because on both mentioned maps Nod did not have an OB. What other reasons..?
- The maps encourage aggressive gameplay with different routes that can be utilized. 
- You can mine critical places. But you still kinda have to defend your base. This means you can go all defence or all offensive and will be doing something.
- Some of the maps listed are Meat Grinders but not "Kill Zone Maps". Kill zone maps imo are maps like Orca Heights or Great wall where it's impossible to do anything without taking major damage, then being attacked while trying to attack the base constantly because the routes are so forced. These are the maps people don't like.
- Hidden_valley is not a Killzone map because it's just perfectly spaced out enough where you can attack the middle but you have no where to hide if you do. You also can't hit from the left side of the map to the right.
- Most of these maps encourage gameplay but placing a Silo or an ATM the enemy team must take. If you're being whored out you can take the silo or ATM to turn the tide. Making for an exciting game.

My suggestion would be to make maps yourself or get some people to make Renegade Maps. I would like to help if you choose to do so.

I believe that there are some games such as Company of Hero's that have great map ideas that we can use. For example, I've wanted to use "Angoville" for a long time and think it would be incredible. Take a look at this quick mock up I did.

287571921_Angovilemap.thumb.jpg.0a0d82d7a5d0f64add01574ef5762745.jpg

 

As you can see in the map idea.
- The defenses can be killed but actually make it so you can't just rush in much like Hidden_Valley. This makes them worth defending but never impossible to defeat for the other team.
- Green Tib route that AI Harvs go to. Like Cold_River this will encourage fierce gameplay from both sides for their harv.
- Blue Tib in the middle that Players can go Harv and Nod can use Mutants to reheal on. Adding more dynamic to the game. It's however in the middle of the map and camped by 3 houses. Making it a risk for both sides.
- Forg Silo (Red) that awards those who can hold the position. Easily killed by either side and easily capturable. This forces aggressive gameplay.
- Possible Com Center for the map to encourage ether side to actually care about their economy. Encouraging aggressive gameplay. This can also be used to make defenses stronger if you defend them. Or speed up income encouraging you to actually repair the silo or protect the harv.
- House near the Green Tib Field that ether side can use to hold a position there if they prefer infantry.
- The map ideally would be the size of about Hidden Valley/Cold_River making it short but fierce gameplay. Both have proven to always be a good game playing IA for three years. Both can go for ethier side and are very balanced in my opinion.
- The walls are just a quick idea but can be redone to decide the best places to put them. The walls being destructable also add a dynamic to the game so that ethier team can't just camp forever.

You want a good map. I believe something like this is how you do it. 

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Personally I think New Vile is still extremely GDI biased because the Nod base is infinitely easier to attack. It works on Old Vile because even though Nod can't flank, they can turtle, and there's enough range GDI isn't in range of the entire base once they cross a corner.

GDI has an amphibious route to a cliff with two tiny one tank sized holes that oversee *the entire Nod base* and also get a free repair depo. Three ADATS will kill any building, even the ConYard, if they get all their rockets off. Things not the ConYard need less rockets to kill too, so three ADATS don't even need to get off a full salvo to kill Air, PP, HoN, Refinery, and Coms, all of which they can hit with complete impunity as no Nod defense can hit GDI units up there. Dislodging GDI forces up there requires a 2-1 manpower advantage at best, and a skilled and supported amphibious push could be just outright impossible for Nod to get rid of without just dropping three nukes at the base of the cliff to force them to leave. Furthermore, the Nod base is just much wider than the GDI one, taking nearly twice as long to cross to get to any building. So personally, I find New Vile to be one of the *least* balanced maps, and generally Nod only wins when they bottle GDI at the start and no one on GDI is willing or knowing that they can just get three ADATS to kill the whole base, or that spy beaconing there is the easiest thing in the entire world. The Nod PP especially is easy to beacon because for some reason, in addition to being on the other side of the base, it's also on a cliff, with no defenses covering it. You don't even need a spy, you can just get a Hotwire to kill PP if you really want it. 

The only real advantage Nod has on New Vile is that their water route gives them access to the Forgotten Warfactory, but that's hardly a game winning feature, or even relevant. Their water units also kinda sucking doesn't help either. 

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5 minutes ago, notDMB said:

Dislodging GDI forces up there requires a 2-1 manpower advantage at best.

That’s fair and valid. Although I think that the Nod route underground with vehicles (Where you’re facing GDI Conyard and Harv) balances it out since there are only two Turrets defending con yard/Harv. But that’s my opinion.
 

I don’t know why the repair depots exist ether on both sides. It does allow a chokehold on ether team to be fair but Nod HAS to use amphibious units to get to its point while GDI can just take out Ref defenses then drive a mammoth tank up there. Seeing as Nod has Zero amphibious units that matter or don’t get 2 hit K/O’d by TOW Humvee it’s irrelevant. The 2S9 Nona doesn’t do anything against buildings anymore while the ADATS apparently reckts stuff. (I’ve yet to try it out).

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I generally support this idea but if bored players usually want skip basically most of maps by broken voting they will skip new map made by beginner creator for sure.
dont expect that unexperienced map maker can create something like Vile_Facility_E06 at once.

so yeah-as usual DMB ideas seems to be good in theory on paper but in practice it will be a total disaster.

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1 hour ago, TemporaryName said:

I generally support this idea but if bored players usually want skip basically most of maps by broken voting they will skip new map made by beginner creator for sure.
 

It's likely what's going to happen. Skip skip skip until you get 1 of 2 maps which are played again and again and again. Why even have a rotation and more maps than Vile and Infinite Isle?

Yesterday I cancelled the map vote on the 3rd skip and after 15/30 people have left because of the previous two. It gets retarded sometimes.

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Quote

DMB: >great wall
DMB: More like great disaster

this is only last example from yesterday. you are 1 of those all the time bored malcontents who complain about everything. especially about things which you dont understand

Quote

DMB: I don't know how the fuck he got into base and past all the AI to kill con yard
DMB: So idk how he walked into the com center TWICE
DMB: I just don't know
DMB: I'm CONFUSED

ps. Great Wall is the first map made by Kaskins and it was updated many times. be realistic. if you say something like that about good map made by professional developer you wont approve new map from novice for sure. no way. stop dreaming lol

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There are plenty of great maps to remake/redesign however I believe the main problem is that "some" people do not know how to balance the various characters, tanks and base defenses.

There are so many tanks and characters that are underutilized because either they were not good to begin with or people bitched and got nerfed out of existence:

  • Snipers – Useless
  • Gunner a little OP and I love this because they are easy to kill.
  • Mammy & T62 – Main tanks people use because there are the only decent tanks.
  • Phase - Rubbish
  • Building Material – Great idea used correctly but now all you get it people try to build useless stuff and it is abused

The nerfed the Ezeks and no one used them now that they are fixed people are using it again. Isn’t the objective to ensure people use all the various tanks? If not why create them?

Maps maker make the map let the players do the balance? Best of both worlds

Withstanding my rant I would be happy to help in balancing characters & tanks and if I can I will be happy to through some $ and support this

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11 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

this is only last example from yesterday. you are 1 of those all the time bored malcontents who complain about everything. especially about things which you dont understand

ps. Great Wall is the first map made by Kaskins and it was updated many times. be realistic. if you say something like that about good map made by professional developer you wont approve new map from novice for sure. no way. stop dreaming lol

There were six other people who were also complaining about Great Wall including Threve and most of the server left because it was next on rotation, you can't just call me out for this when most of the community doesn't seem to like the map. It's being updated because it's the first map Kaskin's made and it's just been outgrown by the game, and he acknowledges that. 

Also who said anything about amateurs? I'm saying we hire someone good at this. Hence why we'd need a group fund for it.

I really don't even see the bad maps get skipped much anymore, even ORCA Heights didn't get skipped yesterday and eight people were in chat asking to skip it. I'm sure we could get some maps made that are at least an improvement over ORCA Heights. 

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Also I want to pint something out, because I think there's some ridiculous idea we'd hire a guy to just start making maps on his own.

No this would be to hire a guy to work with Kaskins. The whole problem is Kaskins is basically doing all the mapping solo, an extra hand helping him with the maps seems like a good idea and I think it would work in practice. 

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Anyone willing to get with me some time to make maps for IA? I think with some combined efforts we can create something pretty damn cool especially based on the experience of all the players commenting on the current rotation.

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Yes. I'll have days off on the christmas and ready for help. If you teach me how, I'll make only best no-lag maps bez my pc is not high-dollar fps shit (vile fac_e06 lag shit even dblaney1's pc lags hard when 30+ players, but old vile fac is very good map) and I'll kill rozeperdialaotoer there becasue my map no lags. if you are intarestid in that I'll check that forum in a week if not forget.

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The tutorials they have here at W3Dhub are a great starting place. One big piece of help that is sadly not mentioned in any tutorial is when porting a mesh from an editor to LeveL Editor program with a high vertex or was it poly count will not load in the Level Editor program.

I tried at level design on and off for years no understanding why some meshes would load and other wouldn’t until someone explained that bit of detail to me.

(for me half the battle is getting created material into the level editor)

Edited by Raptor29aa
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