Tiberian Sun: Reborn Feedback Thread

[Killing_You]

Hello everyone!

Well, we did it! Tiberian Sun: Reborn 2.0 has officially landed in the hands of the public. Our hard work has paid off, and we had an absolute blast during the game night! We saw some of the highest population games in TSR's history, to the point where the poor server had issues keeping up at times!

That all being said, we'd like to hear your thoughts. How do you feel about 2.0 as it stands? What are some things you really liked, and what would you like to see changed? Discuss away!

[Guard55]

Great job on this Reborn game night!

 

Starting with the GDI Units:

 

Riot Trooper - I love this unit. It's one of my top picks. A small detail that I'd like to bring up, the alt-fire is using two rounds of ammunition per shot. I'd like to have that use up only one round of ammo per shot. Great unit overall, especially the shield.

 

Medic - Incredibly useful in infantry rushes and holds. I cannot stress enough the importance of having a medic present in a firefight.

 

Disc Thrower - My favorite unit by far. I love the range on the throws and the damage is just right. A long distance headshot that is perfectly calculated is immensely satisfying.

 

Ghost Stalker - Very powerful in the hands of a skilled player, but not invincible. I like him a lot.

 

Wolverine - Excellent rate of fire, but the inaccuracy leads to having odd fights with infantry where squishing them is sometimes more efficient than gunning them down. Still a fun unit to use and absolutely crucial for supporting the Titan.

 

Titan - I like it. Not much else to say about it. It's the Titan. The aiming is a bit finicky with being offset. It has a tendency to get thrown off by terrain.

 

Hover MLRS - Great against aircraft, but not so great against ground vehicles. I find myself getting outmatched by nearly everything except buggies because of how close I need to get to establish a proper lock. It is super effective against structures, however. Definitely not something I'd pick to shoot at ground vehicles with but 100% something I'd pick to blow up buildings or to shoot down aircraft with.

EDIT (8/25/2023): I was suffering from a skill issue. I really like the Hover MLRS now. I wasn't using it properly before. I 100% recommend it now.

 

Amphibious APC - Clown car but for GDI infantry. It's great fun.

 

GDI TacOps Sniper Guy whose name I forgot - Excellent for dealing with those pesky Kerubims. I did find my sniper scope disappearing often in a match, but I was still able to score clean headshots.

 

Any GDI unit that I haven't mentioned above is either because I think the unit is fine or because I haven't used it enough to have an opinion on.

 

 

Now on to the Nod Units:

 

The Killing_You Unit (Kerubim) - Very good, I like it a lot. Definitely wreaks havoc on GDI vehicles.

 

Nod Blackhand Sniper - Much like the GDI TacOps Sniper Guy whose name I forgot, I like this unit a lot. Same issue with the scope texture disappearing.

 

Elite Cadre - Another one of my favorite units. Excellent damage and still effective against vehicles.

 

Attack Cycle - My favorite vehicle. It's so much fun to squish enemy infantry and harass vehicles. Pretty good against aircraft and structures too. I had an epic rush with them on one map that I forgot the name to, but it has the street sign of ' North Edinbruh ' on a bridge.

 

Harpy - My favorite air unit. *BRRRRRRRRRRRT*

 

Any Nod unit that I haven't mentioned above is because I haven't used it enough to have an opinion on. I spent most of my games on GDI.

 

So far, I'm really loving this version of Reborn. Definitely better than 1.6 in my opinion. I'm going to have to play more to get more thoughts on it.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Guard55
I played some more and realized I was wrong about the Hover MLRS

[Rulue]

The disappointing thing is the Mutant Hijacker was removed and no longer in TSR. I love using Hijacker to hijack enemy vehicles.

[anvil_36]

honestly not a fan of the bloom effect on everything. the old reborn had this dark and ominous atmosphere to it but now the whole game just looks so picturesque when everything glows. would appreciate if it was toned down or to have an option to turn it off

[Timeaua]

besides network issues and fps problems on TSDam it was a solid experience. Many good improvements from the previous version. Well done!

And yes, bring back the hijacker.

And thanks for getting my old map (now TS_Anchorage) ready. Its a fun map and good idea to open up the center by removing parts of the cliffs at each base. Maybe open up the center entrance to the Nod base a bit more. There are too many props (street lights, stone, buildings) infront of this center entrance for the huge GDI vehicles. There is a invisible barrier missing at the canal. You can just walk out of the map there. And the tiberium cave needs some green lighting. Oter than that i like how it turned out.

The additions to TS_Dam and TS_Tiber  are very good, too. What I dont like are the huge amount of props added in the area outside the battlefield on TS_OmegaCity. Looks too overcrowded with buildings.

 

Regarding gameplay balance issues:

- these 100$ extra grenades need a buff. They are not worse the purchase at the moment.

- GDI mobile EMP tank needs a huge buff. Let it block Nod vehicles and cyborgs from shooting, too, if hit. Let it disable laser turrets and sams. Maybe increase splash.

- give the orca fighter at least 3 rounds with a quite long reload time (like 10 seconds). Firing just 8 missiles and then moving back to ammo station is no fun gameloop.

- Nearly every vehicle feels like it gets destroyed to quickly.

- some maps provide too much money. Maybe delete silo, if the harvester route is short.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Timeaua

[DVD Player]

Overall thoughts on the game: I thought it was really cool, and is such a big improvement on the old version. A lot of the game felt really good to play, had a greater degree of polish, and a lot more interesting dynamics to units that made them more compelling to use. Really impressed, I had a ton of fun yesterday. A few general changes I think could be good:

- Vehicles felt kinda weak across the board, barring a couple units you could purchase everything felt a bit on the fragile end, especially some of the units that feel like they should be bigger and harder to kill like a Titan. I think the only unit that was close to how much health it should have was the MKII, but for combat in vehicles it was almost worth your money and a better balance of game points to purchase cheaper units and bum-rush the enemy, or purchase something that preferred to stay out of the action like artillery. Those sorts of play styles felt more rewarded than they did something like pushing the front line with a tank that's meant to take hits. I think a push on units to be more specialized in roles than others could help this matter, especially when the less straight-forward approach to the vehicles really sets this mod apart from APB. Otherwise, we just end up with APB with a new coat of paint.
- Vehicle line-ups felt a little restrictive and almost rock-paper-scissor-y. Things like the MK-II helped bring in more asymmetry to the teams, but it was also disappointing that GDI doesn't have any general use units like a normal Mammoth that's slow, big, takes a punch and gives a punch. Meanwhile Nod doesn't feel like they have anything as impressively big as a Mammoth besides the Cyborg Commando, but even then that feels more like a Ghost Stalker, which GDI also has. I think, like, a couple more pieces to each side to flesh out the variety and give some unique encounters would be really good, but no more than like 2 or 3. I understand a desire to remain as faithful to the original game as possible, but as we see with the infantry line-ups there's a necessity to evoke some creative liberties as an RTS doesn't translate to an FPS totally. For instance, units like the MSA, Mobile Stealth Generator, or Harvester may be incredibly useful tools, but they don't offer compelling game play to use in an FPS.
- I think maps could use some neutral objectives, like neutral silos to capture or something like that. I know the urban map has mid-field repair zones, though those can't be destroyed (and also they heal at insane rates that aren't interrupted by damage). Or maybe money/unit crates that are announced to drop at specific zones with visible objectives/timers where you want to control that area to get the bonus? There's a wide variety of options-- just give more reasons to explore more of the map and control more areas.
 

Starting with GDI Units that I used or had an impression of:

Wolverine felt very cool to use. The moving sounds, gun sounds, everything about its presentation just felt awesome. I do agree with Guard, however, it felt really inconsistent in its performance and its range really short. It couldn't fire far enough to combat aircraft and had to be REALLY close to infantry to get good damage in. I honestly think the only good anti-infantry vehicle options on both teams were the artillery or just straight trying to crush them. Either a range/accuracy boost to the Wolverine would be good, or if you want to keep it as a closer-range unit then more bullets in its spread would help to make its firing cones real death-zones.

Hover MLRS besides anti-aircraft I agree, I didn't really see much use in this unit. As Nod it felt really easy to kill and hardly a threat.

Amphibious APC I didn't use this unit but I saw the grenade launcher addition and thought that was really cool and a great idea. I really just wanted to say I thought you guys went above and beyond with this unit that I expected to be a little boring as a basic APC.

Titan was also really cool in its art department-- really impressed! But yeah, aiming felt a little weird, and the unit felt a little fragile overall, but all the vehicles kinda do.

Disruptor felt so good to use! The damage you dealt felt really good. Only complaint is that the firing projectiles disappear when any part of their model impacts terrain or objects, and when you're trying to shoot stuff either close-up or hiding around complex cover it becomes impossible to hit them because the fired projectiles are so big.

Juggernaut felt better to use against aircraft like a flak cannon or base buildings than vehicles. Maybe the intention?

Enforcer I tried using a little bit, but the tiny projectiles on that gun felt like a worse flamethrower. I dunno, the idea was really cool but it didn't feel very strong at all.

 

And now Nod:

Attack Buggy I was impressed how good this unit felt to use! Good gun, good speed, just a solid implementation. Though the moment anti-tank infantry come into play this unit becomes immediately useless.

Tick Tank To be honest I never touched this unit. I never felt the need to, I felt like front-line tank units were a bit useless after trying to use the Titan a bit and that it was better to just save the couple hundred extra dollars and get a Stank, Artillery, or Devil's Tongue. Speaking of...

Devil's Tongue When I discovered the digging tool dealt damage to units when you collided with them I fucking pogged. Amazing idea, made it feel really cool to use especially with the ambushing aspect. Finally a flame tank unit in a Renegade mod that's used for something other than base-rushing!

Stealth Tank felt great. Missile locking had to be pretty close to work, but then I discovered the non-lock right click and thought that was a good edition. Felt like a more fun and tighter-made version of IA's Ezekiel's Wheel.

Mobile Artillery Between this and the Devil's Tongue these were the two units I had the most fun with. Getting aircraft mid-air felt so fucking good, the unit felt really strong and effective but not overbearingly so. Great unit, loved to use it.

Kerubim made me realize how much more effective infantry can be in this mod than vehicles. Not saying this guy's overpowered, I just feel like vehicle armor is kinda underpowered and the anti-infantry vehicles kinda weak in comparison. The only good counter against these guys was... artillery, because they couldn't just melt you in a second.

 

A couple misc. bug-related things:
- Disruptor clips into the ground when not driven, but maybe that was just a big-player-count instability thing.
- When a vehicle is deployed over a gate and exited, the gate will close and lift that deployed vehicle into the air. Because it's deployed, it will stay floating in the air even when the gate opens again and now you can't get into it.
- Sometimes I couldn't get into a Wolverine at all. I just wasn't able to enter it, or re-enter it, like I just locked the keys inside of it or something.

Anyways, big post of feedback but really, honestly, I loved what I saw overall and I absolutely cannot wait to see what's next. Great work!

[Guard55]

I forgot to mention this odd quirk with the HMLRS. It's missiles have a tendency to fly high above a deployed Tick Tank's turret, when locked on, causing some of the missiles to miss. It's inconsistent with how many missiles hit the deployed Tick Tank, either all missiles hit or only some hit with a few missing outright.

[SzaboRoland]

deploy does not work for juggernaut and Nod arty, and mobile cloaking generator :/

what's wrong? :/

[Nexus51325]

Like all the improvements so far, the lightning, the gun play, the new cameras views on vehicles and all the general improvements on the buildings animations and interrior, that's pretty cool !

Finally being able to sprint is nice
The new maps are cool (particulary liked the new one with the high tiberium infestation)

Sadly, I also had this deployement bug, I was unable to deploy any vehicles
FPS were really low too as soon as vehicles were being built (at beginning of each rounds it was fine)

[ryknow69]

In relation to the deploy bug, under extended settings you must rebind the deploy key. We're trying to figure out how to reset the defaults to include the extended controls right now

 

@ Nexus51325  

@ SzaboRoland

[gammelon]

This update is pretty good, but I'm unsure about these other changes:

Mines are such an unexpected addition to this mod, it makes infiltration hard. I often die to these because I often forget they exist, in the long time I played this mod without mines.
I miss playing the Mutant Hijacker, not just because of hijacking, but because of his radar invisibility and slightly better combat potential than the spy. To me, he was a decent infantry ambusher with the ability to hijack. You should really consider bringing him back.
Speaking of the Chameleon Spy, I don't get why his binoculars are removed, it wasn't bad.
Icons aren't changed to reflect recent changes for whatever reason, please update them.
I am not sure why the Enforcer's design is changed, it reminds me of Halo now and it's unfitting. The gun also feels bad to use, I think I prefer the previous version. And why the fuck is the unusable scope still there?
Orca Fighter definitely needs more ammo. I also don't get why it has an advanced flight mode when the speed is pretty much the same, besides being able to do cool tricks.
Speaking of advanced flight mode, it needs to be more forgiving on when you can switch. I tried to fly my Banshee to a helipad one time for refueling, but it decided that I should die and waste the money I spent on it instead of switching to save my life, just because I was flying in a slightly different angle. Stupid shit imo.
Aircraft fighting kinda sucks imo, one volley usually destroys an aircraft unit. There needs to be some kind of change so aircraft units can stay a little longer in a fight.
I'm a little sad to see the engineer's laptop is removed, it had a little secret when you "reload" it.
Jumpjet Trooper flight overhaul is an unnecessary nerf imo, the lock-on missile feature from enemies is a good enough nerf for him.
I don't like the change for the Cyborg's anti-tank cannon, it's hard to use now and it disorients people trying to fight it. I prefer the previous version where it's one shot at a time.
The radar icon for marking the enemy's base is used for epic units. I don't like this as it confuses me when I'm trying to hunt down epic units.
I would also like to see the return of the veterancy system.

Edited August 27, 2023 by gammelon

[WNxHeadShot]

Stealth Tank missiles could use a tweak so they don't go into the ground when aiming at a unit with some elevation between the two of you. They lock on to the middle of the tank and force you, a pretty weak tank, to get really close to the enemy. Dumb missiles don't really work since they just fly straight.

 

I found out that the MSA Hud glitch can be negated if you go in first person, apparently it only affects you in third person. 

[RoCkStAr527]

On 8/25/2023 at 4:00 AM, Guard55 said:

Great job on this Reborn game night!

 

Starting with the GDI Units:

 

Riot Trooper - I love this unit. It's one of my top picks. A small detail that I'd like to bring up, the alt-fire is using two rounds of ammunition per shot. I'd like to have that use up only one round of ammo per shot. Great unit overall, especially the shield.

 

Medic - Incredibly useful in infantry rushes and holds. I cannot stress enough the importance of having a medic present in a firefight.

 

Disc Thrower - My favorite unit by far. I love the range on the throws and the damage is just right. A long distance headshot that is perfectly calculated is immensely satisfying.

 

Ghost Stalker - Very powerful in the hands of a skilled player, but not invincible. I like him a lot.

 

Wolverine - Excellent rate of fire, but the inaccuracy leads to having odd fights with infantry where squishing them is sometimes more efficient than gunning them down. Still a fun unit to use and absolutely crucial for supporting the Titan.

 

Titan - I like it. Not much else to say about it. It's the Titan. The aiming is a bit finicky with being offset. It has a tendency to get thrown off by terrain.

 

Hover MLRS - Great against aircraft, but not so great against ground vehicles. I find myself getting outmatched by nearly everything except buggies because of how close I need to get to establish a proper lock. It is super effective against structures, however. Definitely not something I'd pick to shoot at ground vehicles with but 100% something I'd pick to blow up buildings or to shoot down aircraft with.

EDIT (8/25/2023): I was suffering from a skill issue. I really like the Hover MLRS now. I wasn't using it properly before. I 100% recommend it now.

 

Amphibious APC - Clown car but for GDI infantry. It's great fun.

 

GDI TacOps Sniper Guy whose name I forgot - Excellent for dealing with those pesky Kerubims. I did find my sniper scope disappearing often in a match, but I was still able to score clean headshots.

 

Any GDI unit that I haven't mentioned above is either because I think the unit is fine or because I haven't used it enough to have an opinion on.

 

 

Now on to the Nod Units:

 

The Killing_You Unit (Kerubim) - Very good, I like it a lot. Definitely wreaks havoc on GDI vehicles.

 

Nod Blackhand Sniper - Much like the GDI TacOps Sniper Guy whose name I forgot, I like this unit a lot. Same issue with the scope texture disappearing.

 

Elite Cadre - Another one of my favorite units. Excellent damage and still effective against vehicles.

 

Attack Cycle - My favorite vehicle. It's so much fun to squish enemy infantry and harass vehicles. Pretty good against aircraft and structures too. I had an epic rush with them on one map that I forgot the name to, but it has the street sign of ' North Edinbruh ' on a bridge.

 

Harpy - My favorite air unit. *BRRRRRRRRRRRT*

 

Any Nod unit that I haven't mentioned above is because I haven't used it enough to have an opinion on. I spent most of my games on GDI.

 

So far, I'm really loving this version of Reborn. Definitely better than 1.6 in my opinion. I'm going to have to play more to get more thoughts on it.

Hey,

 

I have been playing Renegade since the 2002 Release, i still have original CD and box. Played along on n00bstories, Jelly, UnRules, Ren Corner and Staff at MPF New Maps server. I am known as RoCkStar or SnowStorm mainly. I do really love how Reborn was Ressurected since Tiberian Sun and Firestorm was my first strategy game i have gotten in 1998-2000. Tiberian Sun is my favourite C&C game along with C&C3 Tiberium Wars because of campaing, atmosphere and story.

However, i find MBT's to be weak and doesn't feel like tanks in terms of HP. They do great damage but compared to Wolverine and Buggy it doesn't feel like Tank. I known that Buggy has more HP than Wolverine in Tiberiun Sun ans FS, Two buggies have more HP Tick Tank but less hp than one Titan. Although, in Renegade and Tiberian Dawn Light tanks has twice HP compared to Humvee and buggy has about 45% what LT has. In TIb Sun Titan has 15-20% more HP than Tick Tank

My point is that main battle tanks/walkers should have at least twice health points compared to basic light vehicles (buggy) / walkers (wolverine). I like how Buggy an Wolverine cost half of Titan or Tick Tank price, simillar to Renegade. I believe that Buggy should have 500 HP and Wolverine too, but wolverine should do a little more damage and shouldnt have cooldown with its chainguns while Tick tank should have 1000 HP while Titan 1100 or 1200 HP. Along with this other Tanks/Walkers should have HP buffed compared to MBTS, cost increase/change would be good too. I can understankd Stanks, Artillery, Hover MRLS having less HP but MBTs should be MBTs. One note for a Tick Tank, i also believe that tick tank should have reduced range when deployed, it does shred Titans easily. GDI always had stronger MBT

[hunterX]

This new Reborn is much better than the old Reborn, things are balanced fairly well across the board. Also nice bloom effects. Some maps need some optimizations but over all performance is pretty good for mid range PC, although gotta turn texture details down to medium and disable a few other things, for me at least.

GDI can't do early vehicle rushes like Nod can, wolverines are too slow, where as bike and buggy rushes can PWN on certain maps. Maybe decrease cost of APC to 700? Increase grenade launcher damage slightly, at least versus vehicles?

The EMP tank I think needs a buff. It should stop tanks in their tracks, no? Just slowing them down is kinda useless I would say, especially against faster vehicles like Bikes. Guys in-game told me for the next version it's EMP attack will affect Cyborgs too. Should it disable the vehicle's weapons, too? I would say yes because that's what it did in Tiberian Sun. Also, you guys think it should affect base defence structures as well? Shut down lasers and SAM sites? I'm on the fence about that, could be too good in a base rush.

My favourite unit is the Devil's Tongue Flame Tank, that thing is awesome. Leaves me wanting more from the Subterranean APC. Maybe give it the same grinding attack the flame tank does? It has a big ass drill after all.

Speaking of the Sub Flame Tank's grinding attack, how does it work? Is it automatic? Like it activates as soon as you are touching an enemy tank/building? And does the grinding attack damage walls?

LOL the Enforcer is Master Chief! He's sick of Halo Infinite so he's come to Tiberian Sun and joined GDI, spray painted his armour gold. That's gotta be a placeholder model, right?

The aircraft seem balanced, although there's not much ammo to be had. I dunno, I haven't flown enough to determine if giving them more ammo would be unbalanced or not.

Hijacker is missed, but I understand he was too over powered. If he comes back I guess his design needs to be altered somehow... someway. Build limit of one and more expensive? Like in Tiberian Sun?

Purchasable grenades are interesting. Are they effective versus vehicles? Or just infantry? Never got around to using them much, I keep forgetting about them.

Over all this is some good shit! We just needs some Tiberian Sun style vicseroids that consume everything, and merge to form a super visceroid.

[cyberarm]

TS_Field:
 

Spoiler

 Laser Turret seems to be blocked by the light pole

 Floating rock

Anchorage:

Spoiler

 Its easy to get snagged on the wall columns.
 
 Curbs make it really easy to flip your bike.

OmegaCity:

Spoiler

 Out of Bounds eats into HoN

TS_Drought:

Spoiler

 Slope here is too steep. Stuck spot.

Bug(s):

Spoiler

 Stealthed MSA's "sonar pulse" is visible.

 

[WNxHeadShot]

GDI infantry feel a bit underwhelming compared to their Nod counterparts.

 

Officer isn't anything spectacular, it should receive a buff and possibly AT grenades so it's not 1:1 with the Elite Cadre

Enforcers are very underwhelming. They're only good at killing infantry over very short ranges so you can get all headshots on. They could get a projectile speed increase or, as someone in Discord mentioned, they should do more damage the longer they fire.

 

Tanks seem to be too flimsy, most of them can already die to cheap infantry like the Cadres. The biggest issue being the Mk2 which will easily die to a handful of Kerubims(like on the train map we played Sunday). It should get a HP buff, possibly longer range for the machineguns and a camera adjustment. In some areas it's extremely hard to aim at things because the camera pans to the rear of the vehicle.

Edited August 28, 2023 by WNxHeadShot

[GaryOak]

First of all props for the impressive work! The game is a lot of fun, and even though it might not be inmediately apparent to everyone I think you've introduced some brilliant ideas and improvements for Reborn's gameplay. 

I'll post my 2 cents concerning some things that stood out to me.

A. GDI Juggernaut  / Nod Artillery
Starting off with the biggest issue I see, the artillery units are simply way too good in straight up combat.
I haven't tested all possible lineups extensively, but I'm pretty sure a deployed Juggernaut / Artillery beats any other unit save the Mammoth MKII in straight combat.

Fortunately you managed to give both units just about exactly the same amount of raw combat power (which is impressive considering differences in weaponry), so there is no issue in terms of faction balance. I do believe though that the characteristics of both units should be reconsidered, else they might start dominating gameplay soon.

Changes I would suggest:
- Drastically reduce (splash) damage against infantry. If you have a juggernaut and see a cyborg commando coming you should want to be PACKED as you want to get the hell out of there! Instead as it is right now you'll want to be DEPLOYED as you will give the cyborg commando an ass-whooping.
- Reduce splash damage against vehicles. In TibSun, any enemy vehicle was a threat to a deployed juggernaut. We don't want the juggernaut to be useless against vehicles though. So how about reducing splash damage, but keeping a good damage output for direct hits? Skilled players and players targeting stationary targets should still wreak havoc, but outright dominating enemy vehicles in 1on1 combat should be less common. 
- Reduce weapon spread to offset the above mentioned effect and to give players the chance to deal good damage to targets if said targets are immobile or stationary.
- Increase unit HP and / or armour. I remember that a deployed juggernaut was in trouble if enemy vehicles attacked it, but I also remember it being able to tank quite a few hits. That helped it survive until friendly reinforcements could arrive to protect it.

B. GDI Disruptor 
I should say the unit is balanced quite well already, but I do think that damage output is a tad bit too low as I think I saw a friendly Titan do about the same DPS to the Nod PP today. The Disruptor is more expensive and has to move into close range for it weapon to be effective - considering these characteristics I would expect the sonic emitter to really wreak havoc once it does get into firing position. The same DPS as a Titan is a bit underwhelming though.

C. GDI Orca
As other people have mentioned, having only 1 load of 8 missiles feels...strange. I must say that the way the orca can hit and run feels very good, and it does just about the right amount of DPS too. It's just that I keep waiting for more missiles to load every single time im back at the helipad, lol.

D. GDI Ghoststalker  / Nod Cyborg Commando
I'm really impressed with how you've managed to balance these units! It feel almost perfect; they are powerful units, but not as dominating as they used to be.
People who know me will already have guessed what I'm about to complain about though. It's about the fact that there can be only one of each, and about the way in which players consistently hug them for the entirety of the game - sometimes for many games in a row (* cough * Silverlight * cough *).

IMO it's too easy to keep hugging the GS / CC once you've acquired one, as the unit's combat power is more than enough to have a steady income of $, and if the enemy manages to kill you you can respawn and re-buy the unit in like..5 seconds? That's the only window of opportunity for other players to try and have a go at using the best infantry class around.

Players using the GS / CC will tend to refrain from participating in aggresive gameplay strats though, and they usually use every lame tactic they can come up with to make sure they stay alive so as to reduce that window of opportunity for other players to run the GS / CC to 0. That bothers me, whether said GS / CC is friend or foe.

Moreover, you might recognize the feeling of friendly competition that sometimes comes with the struggle for the MVP title, or the drive to achieve a K/D on which you can look back with some pride. Yeah, it's all point-whoring and kill-whoring anyway and no one really cares etc. etc. Still, I'm sometimes not sure what to feel about GS / CC users topping the game's lists. That's because if the GS / CC was hugged for the entire game by the same player, there simply was no way to compete with them on fair terms.

I wish I could come up with a solution for this. I do support the build limit on the CC / GS, because having multiple copies of them running around would also be weird. Meh so yeah idk.

Edited August 29, 2023 by GaryOak

[hunterX]

People are complaining about it but I kinda like the relatively quick time-to-kill for everything now. Even the regular infantry can still cause serious damage to Ghost Stalkers/Cyborg Commandos with consistent headshots. If you don't miss any of your shots and stay in cover, a rocket guy can take down a titan or a tick tank with ease.

[Timeaua]

21 minutes ago, hunterX said:

People are complaining about it but I kinda like the relatively quick time-to-kill for everything now. Even the regular infantry can still cause serious damage to Ghost Stalkers/Cyborg Commandos with consistent headshots. If you don't miss any of your shots and stay in cover, a rocket guy can take down a titan or a tick tank with ease.

It has its pros, as it provides more dynamic to the battlefield. But some vehicles are just not worth buying anymore imo. Slow vehicles with short range like the Disruptor need a proper HP buff.

[oxi]

14 hours ago, GaryOak said:

Moreover, you might recognize the feeling of friendly competition that sometimes comes with the struggle for the MVP title, or the drive to achieve a K/D on which you can look back with some pride. Yeah, it's all point-whoring and kill-whoring anyway and no one really cares etc. etc. Still, I'm sometimes not sure what to feel about GS / CC users topping the game's lists. That's because if the GS / CC was hugged for the entire game by the same player, there simply was no way to compete with them on fair terms.

This is a very interesting point, and to repeat what I said in Discord, in the very last version of my APB stats system I removed deaths and the k/d ratio for this very reason. They were still recorded but not publicly visible, this led to more players changing their styles of play (not all, granted). I replaced this with a win ratio leading to people wanting to work to destroy the enemy base, not spend the whole game as an APC running people over (same thing, different game).

[GaryOak]

21 hours ago, oxi said:

This is a very interesting point, and to repeat what I said in Discord, in the very last version of my APB stats system I removed deaths and the k/d ratio for this very reason. They were still recorded but not publicly visible, this led to more players changing their styles of play (not all, granted). I replaced this with a win ratio leading to people wanting to work to destroy the enemy base, not spend the whole game as an APC running people over (same thing, different game).

I was thinking about this for a bit today, and some interesting thoughts popped up in my head. 
 

Amongst them was the realization that alternate scoring *would* actually solve the issue I have with the GS / CC system. I think I can also finally summarize what my issue is;

- Players buying a GhostStalker get to play as a unit that, whilst the unit is balanced and not unbeatable, gives them an advantage that can not be matched 1 on 1. 
- The way the system works, said players will basically have all the say on who next has the right to make use of that advantage.

- Making full use of their sense of social fairness and teamplay, said players will invariably confer the advantage on only 1 player for the entire game: Themselves.

- As a reward for this behaviour, other players without advantage may watch as said players climb up to top all the score and stats lists.

Now imagine the scenario where score and stats tracking works dynamically, and somehow any kill you make as a GhostStalker only adds 0,2 kills to your KD. Any points you get will count as 0,001 points in your score.

As if the game says: “Sure you can play as this strong and important character. But that will give you an advantage that other players can’t match, so your score and stats will be compensated to reflect your gameplay more accurately.”

I’m not saying this should be implemented, but it is a made-up scenario that would actually solve my issues with the current system.

Because this is what bothers me about it all. It’s players reaping the rewards from having an advantage that other players can’t get because they said so.

PS I do think GS and CC are balanced well and actually not that hard to kill. I might have overstated things a bit in order to make my point clear.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by GaryOak