A Path Beyond Siege Work in Progress Updates

[Raap]

Here is one example. The first image is the regular wall texture, and the second image is one of several variations of it.

 

It's not quite as simple as just placing some images on top of another. Color balancing and shadow effects are added as well, and the brick pattern is adjusted. At this point I'm not sure how many variations will exist, it depends on how many I can realistically create (I'm going to run out of plant and brick pattern variations). Either way this route is much more performance friendly than having actual meshes for the plants and what not, but the in-game wall will offer both, especially near the lower part of the wall, where infantry can walk.

 

 

 

But yeah, work continues.

[Ice]

 

Sounds good, can hardly wait to see it.

 

On a side note, have you ever considered downsizing the cannons a bit? They're extremely big.

 

Anyway, looking forward to seeing this map again. It was awesome before so I can only imagine how awesome it's gonna be now!

 

I can't really make them smaller because then the infantry model would look strange in the seat.

 

Cannons IRL are not small either. The turning platform and ability to raise the cannon angle is obviously not based on real world designs, but the rest is.

 

I just meant scaling down/narrowing the cannon barrel itself, not the entire platform, but it's not a big deal (no pun intended ). Just it seems a bit oversized; even the Tsar cannon (biggest antique cannon in the world) isn't that big.

 

Anyway I'm really looking forward to the new RA_Siege. Can hardly wait to explore the castle!

[Raap]

Finalized it to 8 texture variations, although due to UVW scaling concerns I've opted to go for a different high resolution wall foundation texture;

I don't think I've quite spent several hours on a single wall before, but hey, first time for everything?

Edit: And don't worry, no more boring texture updates from now on.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Raap

[Raptor29aa]

You're wrong... Texture updates aren't boring.

That actually looks like a wall. And let's me know that the castle will look awesome.

*fires cannon

One question will the cannons do artillery level damage or tank level damage?

[Raap]

Currently they function more like an artillery with their handling and damage. I expect to be tweaking it some more before the level is released.

[Raap]

I completed another major terrain mesh overhaul, this time the castle and walls. This is very time consuming work, so I don't have a lot to show besides a glimpse of what to expect when it is finally done;

 

-snip-

 

This is currently what the entire inward facing wall looks like. Still a bunch of stuff missing, such as foliage and some more things (like a scaffolding bridge to cross the wall gap). But this is the visual direction you can expect.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Raap

[Raap]

I've updated the image from the above post, the below image more accurately displays the art style.

 

 

As you can see, I've seemingly taken a liking towards custom texture solutions.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Raap

[Raap]

I now have a tentative date for delivery to Pushwall mid-August. Pushwall reserves the right to make any changes he sees fit once I hand over the files, and it's up to him to decide when the level is released past this point.

 

The level so far has taken a lot more time than anticipated due to a number of reasons, but what it comes down to is me trying to ensure the level is fun to play, while also attempting to raise my personal bar in regards to aesthetic design, which is the reason why Siege uses so many custom textures.

 

For now, I've decided to stop giving further previews since each time I make a preview image, it becomes outdated 2 hours later (the above image is already missing a ton of changes I made since I posted it). If enough interest exists, I'll go into writing a "blog style post" explaining how some things were made, but due to scheduling concerns I cannot make promises on that.

[Raap]

Based on tester feedback, I solved the problem where the Siege Cannons had a hard time hitting their target.

 

It should now be easier to hit your target using the new shrapnel blast alternate fire mode.

 

 

 

Edit: And true to my previous words, the above image is already outdated again as I've created a new projectile and projectile trail effect (explosion remains the same as it is good), as well as an extra smoke effect from the cannon itself.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Raap

[Raptor29aa]

 

 

Baby you're a firework! (Skatey Perry)

[Or for North Korea Kimy you're a firework]

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J9Pm7IKBDHs

Edited July 25, 2016 by Raptor29aa

[Raap]

Just letting everyone know, yes, I am still alive.

 

I'm still in the process of addressing my planned real life hurdles, and I still have a very intensive surgery coming up as well.

 

Once everything is done and without unexpected complications, I can finally get back to work on the map. Once that happens, I'll provide a reasonable ETA for delivery as well.

 

After Siege is delivered, I'll have a chat with Pushwall and see what else can be done. I'm not currently promising any more contributions past Siege until then.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Raap

[Mojoman]

Take yer time

[Raap]

Hey guys,

 

 

I'm on the tail end of my surgery recovery right now. This took a lot longer than anticipated but I'm slowly becoming more capable of doing things at a computer.

 

As I have just informed Pushwall, I delved into Siege last night and after inspecting the map, I concluded I will have a test version delivered to our lovely QA departement by mid november. Sparing you guys the boring details, what this means is that Siege should actually still be released this year and not in 2019. 

 

I'm putting a careful date (not a real ETA) for a release somewhere in december.

 

There are reasons as to why this can still take two months, but I'm simply being careful here primarily because the map has to go through a truly wonderful process called VIS implementation, and I confess that there are knowledge gaps for me in this specific field.

 

 

TLDR: I'm still alive, and you can actually expect to play this map this year.

[Einstein]

Awesome!

[FRAYDO]

Good to see you, Raap! Glad to hear you're recovering well.

[Raap]

Here is an example of the continued effort of breaking up the screen space. This is a part of what the castle balcony area looks like, but there are various other props as well, just not in this picture.

 

 

 

 

Note that, the map has been downscaled considerably in an effort to improve performance, as well as allowing me to focus my time on a specific set of areas that are most relevant to gameplay. Among the various places rendered inaccessible to ground units are the rear castle ramparts, the castle interior, the rear beach passage, and the castle tunnels have been reduced to a single hallway. This all ensures that the playable space becomes more concentrated within the castle itself, and one short infantry-only beach route. Air units remain available. If an enemy team holds the castle and has it locked down, you can still infiltrate the castle using infantry through the ore mine caves, or one of the side entrances.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Raap

[Einstein]

Looking good!

[Raap]

As a small update to the previous post, two additional map props have been added (3-object wooden barrel, unwrapped single object crate with custom texture). A few more new map props will be added over time, but as with the custom textures, there is only so many I can include within a single map project, but they are all re-usable for future maps.

 

 

I'm currently trying to work at least two hours per day on Siege, which means progress is slow, but steady.

[ChopBam]

Nice as always.

 

Why does the barrel require three objects? Is it because when you shoot them you want one to act like metal, the second to act like wood, and the third to do something else?

[Raap]

Nice as always.

 

Why does the barrel require three objects? Is it because when you shoot them you want one to act like metal, the second to act like wood, and the third to do something else?

 

Mostly that, yes. I ended up added a 2nd wood part (the top/bottom) because unwrapping a shape like the wood of the barrel in 3DS Max 8 would take 3 years and some eye stabbing. Do note though that all the types of pieces you see from each barrel, is in fact a single draw call due to being a merged mesh, so in total these barrels are only 3 objects throughout that area.

 

The crate was simple to unwrap because in essence, it is a plane with a few titled angles that even 3DS Max 8 could easily flatten.

 

In a perfect world I'd unwrap everything. But in a perfect world I'd have access to the latest development tools as well. I don't have an income large enough to live in that world.

 

Also, something you don't see is that these barrels have a collision mesh to avoid getting stuck on the metal edges. A lot of parts in Siege actually uses a collision mesh instead of physical collision settings on the actual mesh for this reason - Stack of crates? Collision mesh. Support beams? Collision mesh. Aesthetic hole in terrain? Collision mesh. Bridge with uneven distribution of planks? You get the idea. This adds a bit of extra development time to everything I make, but it ensures optimal gameplay due to removing stuck issues and minimizes the impact of network latency issues.

 

Edit: Perhaps some people may notice it, but I put some effort into ensuring all the different types of wood have different colors. This adds a contrast of color to the otherwise very bleak level, and breaks pattern repetition.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Raap

[Raap]

Currently finished the ramparts and balcony. Still need to polish up; Courtyard, beach route, bases, map background. (Edit: the caves were finished a while ago.)

 

Still on target for mid november QA testing (without VIS), trying to aim for Friday 11th delivery, but potentially I might require another week.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Raap

[Raap]

Progress is going slowly due to 3DS Max 8 fighting me at every turn, and generally performing really poorly. If you ever tried playing a shooter with 3 FPS then you can roughly draw a comparison how working with 3DS Max 8 is on a level for APB Delta (too many polygons, objects, and materials in a single scene - even when the level is split up into 4 different files).

 

Throw in a few crashes and you get little work done... But despite the setbacks I've managed to fix a number of items on my to-do list, and the beach route is halfway finished.

 

Due to performance concerns, the courtyard will only be filled with trees for cover. I'd love to provide more detailed cover variation but with the development tools already screaming at me as it is (I'm screaming right back at the tools, also), I'm going to have to keep it fairly empty.

 

Once Siege is done, it marks the end for me when it comes to large scaled APB maps, so Siege will be the last of it's kind. Smaller maps are much less of a burden to work on.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Raap

[ChopBam]

Do you use layers? I find that hiding layers of things I don't need to see at the time, plus working with wireframe (F3) helps the performance problem immensely. If you do need to go shaded though, make sure you're zoomed in and not pointing a perspective tilt toward a lot of stuff.

 

ALSO, this might be important. Do you still throw the middle viewport handle to the corner instead of maximizing the viewport (Alt W)? Cause that might also be killing your performance in a big way.

[Raap]

Do you use layers? I find that hiding layers of things I don't need to see at the time, plus working with wireframe (F3) helps the performance problem immensely. If you do need to go shaded though, make sure you're zoomed in and not pointing a perspective tilt toward a lot of stuff.

 

ALSO, this might be important. Do you still throw the middle viewport handle to the corner instead of maximizing the viewport (Alt W)? Cause that might also be killing your performance in a big way.

 

I use layers, and am often in wireframe mode but that's not always an option especially when your level has several depth layers, and I focus my display on only what I need to work on. I also use 4 different files that split up the level. Wireframe mode, for the record, has almost no impact on the dire performance.

 

Alt+W does not make a difference (tested to be sure), to explain why; 3DS does not actively render the inactive viewports (but you can set an option so that it does render all viewports, for whatever reason one might want to do that). I switch between the displays a lot as well, notably top-down view, also to eliminate as much of the performance issues as possible.

 

The performance issues aren't just with viewport camera rotation or movement, it is also affecting the entire 3DS GUI.

 

It's absolutely a software issue, as my hardware surpasses the 3DS Max 8-era recommended specs by years. It's simply a case of the software just being too old, and probably not playing nice with modern drivers and operating systems.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, but the only solution that improves my performance in 3DS substantially, is to remove the wireframes entirely. But as one can suspect, that would make the mesh unworkable.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Raap

[ChopBam]

I have little doubt it's a software issue. I've experienced my own frustrations with crashing when there's too much in the viewport. It can choke up if there's too much stuff showing at once, but that seems to be the only time it chokes up for me. And for me, non-shaded wireframe mode really helps, as OpenGL/Software has much less work to do. What OS are you using? I'm still on 7, so maybe the oldness of my OS is helping my program's stability, as weird and backward as that sounds.

 

Ultimately I'd like to see your source files in max to compare with our other map files, as I don't experience such performance problems as you're describing when I load those. It could also be chalked up to an enormous size difference between stock maps and Siege. I know you said it's split into four files (none of the stock maps require this afaik); what filesizes are you looking at now? Have you painted trees/grass/rocks yet? Your last few screenshots look really pretty with all the ivy, but too much of that stuff can also eat performance, so striking a balance is paramount.

[Raap]

I have little doubt it's a software issue. I've experienced my own frustrations with crashing when there's too much in the viewport. It can choke up if there's too much stuff showing at once, but that seems to be the only time it chokes up for me. And for me, non-shaded wireframe mode really helps, as OpenGL/Software has much less work to do. What OS are you using? I'm still on 7, so maybe the oldness of my OS is helping my program's stability, as weird and backward as that sounds.

 

Ultimately I'd like to see your source files in max to compare with our other map files, as I don't experience such performance problems as you're describing when I load those. It could also be chalked up to an enormous size difference between stock maps and Siege. I know you said it's split into four files (none of the stock maps require this afaik); what filesizes are you looking at now? Have you painted trees/grass/rocks yet? Your last few screenshots look really pretty with all the ivy, but too much of that stuff can also eat performance, so striking a balance is paramount.

 

The combined 3DS filesizes (including the files for various map assets) is 170MB, textures NOT included, of course. This should be of no relevance.

 

The performance is slow in Delta maps as well (Pushwall handed me 2-3 map files when I started out on Hostile Waters), but on Siege it is worse due to the scale of the project.

 

I'm on Windows10, which 3DS Max 8 doesn't support properly as you can imagine given the age of the software. Crashes and bad performance aren't the only problem, right-clicking in viewport space to open the options dialog permanently leaves that area of my screen "frozen" in time, and using a program like GIMP while 3DS is up causes various issues in GIMP in relation to drop down menus.

 

But removing all forms of wireframe solves the performance issues... But that's all.

 

As for too much map detail, heh, I haven't even started with trees and bushes yet. I'm already preparing for disaster.

 

The problem is simply in 3DS Max 8 being too old. Unfortunately upgrading to a newer 3DS is impossible due to the license cost (which they now charge you MONTHLY for instead of a one time payment!), as well as a non-functional W3D plugin. 

 

If I had to speak my mind, I'd say that any programming staff members should consider prioritizing writing an alternative W3D asset conversion tool which allows input from a wider range of 3D formats including newer software (not just crazy expensive 3DS Max). As time goes on, these old development tools will become harder and harder to work with for more and more people.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Raap

[Raap]

General life signs update: Progress continues, and a previously scrapped feature is implemented (you'll have to discover what that is). This is a "proof of concept" feature and if people enjoy it, you might see more of them.

 

I'm down to a final short list of things to do, mostly straight forward things, although a little time consuming.

 

The map might see a release sooner rather than later, but I'll avoid posting any more previews from now on.

 

Update 11/11/2016: We're looking at a delay, due to APB patching delays.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Raap

[Raptor29aa]

I think I can translate raap's update as the map is in testing phase.

[Raap]

It was going to be, but the patch got delayed, and now my RL schedule is full.

 

I got no further ETA for now, but know that the level is nearly finished. It's VIS implementation that I may no longer have the time for, however, and since no one else can do that, I cannot give an ETA.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Raap

[Raptor29aa]

That is definitely understandable. I stopped working on my project because I became unemployed. (Shocking to most of my friends and family) but I had to explain that government jobs are budgetary jobs. As in if you have no seniority and there's money issues you are the first to go.

-good news is that I am now employed and I'll pick up the project.

But yea I totally understand what you mean.