Pushwall Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Einstein said: nor do they count as a player kill (anti-KD whore). You mean that thing I've been wanting for ages so that we can actually put Camos Canyon Bots into rotation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Just now, Pushwall said: You mean that thing I've been wanting for ages so that we can actually put Camos Canyon Bots into rotation? Yeah that one, as soon as its possible. I'm sure one day it will be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahNautili Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 On 5/24/2017 at 2:22 AM, devilslayersbane said: Ultimately my suggestion is to see if there isn't a way to get the bot to balance the teams without making those players start all over from scratch or interrupting a current attack. E.g. you won't be swapped until you die. Then if players return you get swapped back the next time you die (obviously, the latter would make !killme be a bit more abused, but for the most part that's a moot point). It'd also be nice to have some sort of limit on the number of spies. Too many times have I seen a losing soviet team that looks balanced only because of spies. It's very rage inducing. This is a terrible, TERRIBLE, idea and will just cause *more* ragequitting. Imagine if that was you, you're helping your team, you're doing well, and then boom, just because you've got a lower score (which is easily possible if you're in a role like mechanic or engineer anti-mine support) the bot decides you should be on the other team? At *best* it'll cause more ragequits, at worse the swapped players will now start doing their best to fuck up the team they're stuck on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) No mid-match team swapping, too many issues and points of frustrations. Nopers, any bot related swapping based on any logical algorithm should be done on match start, or not at all. If a match becomes unbalanced while it is ongoing, then there is another way to balance things via introducing a handicap of sorts that gives the lesser team certain perks, these perks would unlock based on a certain minimum threshold that would be required, for example triggering a discount (or partial refund on purchase) when a teams total ranking score is significantly below that of the opposing team. However when I last suggested anything like this, I was met with resistance. I remain however, completely convinced that scaling gameplay elements are key to the long term survival of W3D projects. Disagree all you like, but I've played countless competitive games, even designed for two in an advisory role, and the recurring success story is always about games who are dynamic and reactive rather than rigid and static. Dynamic match balancing is something that needs to be embraced, not fought. Edited May 25, 2017 by Raap 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSpoons Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 41 minutes ago, Raap said: Dynamic match balancing Well as it is something I have no real way to gauge I'll just say that I'd be interested in seeing its implementation and even experiencing it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des1206 Posted May 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 No mid game balance. Game-start balance however I agree with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Match start swaps to me are an important thing to consider. Lots of people stick around to see their recs, then quit without offering to swap. The other night we had multiple 5 person games that was eventually disbanded because someone did this, I wasn't about to sit on a team of 3 vs 1 and pad my recs so I quit and saw everyone else quit shortly thereafter. I know it was done for a reason (I also probably complained about it too at some point) but I miss having the ability to buy a rocket soldier when the barracks is down. You could pull off some pretty amazing rebounds with em 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 18 minutes ago, Testament said: I know it was done for a reason (I also probably complained about it too at some point) but I miss having the ability to buy a rocket soldier when the barracks is down. You could pull off some pretty amazing rebounds with em Haha not this again. Such an unnecessarily contentious subject. If it starts up again, just don't be the guy that whines and complains until he gets his way, and then leaves forever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRAYDO Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 6 hours ago, Einstein said: just don't be the guy that whines and complains until he gets his way, and then leaves forever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Einstein said: the guy that whines and complains until he gets his way, and then leaves forever. I whine and complain but I will always be here may or may not be a true statement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 On 5/25/2017 at 6:41 PM, Raap said: Dynamic match balancing Yeah, something I really feel this game is missing is bad/new players being considered literally worse than an empty player slot... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJustin90 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, Pushwall said: Yeah, something I really feel this game is missing is bad/new players being considered literally worse than an empty player slot... Same. A tutorial for new players would be amazing. (But that would take along of time and effort) And would help greatly again the new players being so bad, it's not really their fault they know nothing... haha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, SirJustin90 said: Same. A tutorial for new players would be amazing. (But that would take along of time and effort) And would help greatly again the new players being so bad, it's not really their fault they know nothing... haha. That's... not what I meant. I meant that giving a team bonuses for having less players would mean that new/bad players on a team effectively would be worth less than the empty slot, whereas now they have to try pretty hard to be worse than that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJustin90 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Pushwall said: That's... not what I meant. I meant that giving a team bonuses for having less players would mean that new/bad players on a team effectively would be worth less than the empty slot, whereas now they have to try pretty hard to be worse than that. Ah. Still having them learn more would help them not be so "bad". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Another thing, this whole dynamic balancing thing seems like way too much work for ??? reward in a community with hardly any coders with hardly any time to pull it off in between the other things they're doing. And such a system is bound to be incredibly open to abuse which just means there's even more stuff to constantly fix. Like, going by the discount example, why should it be a valid tactic for a Soviet team to just sacrifice riflemen to pillboxes (or even rooftops if it goes by deaths and not points) for a few minutes so that the rank difference then widens enough for them to unlock the arbitrary discount and afford mammoth-kovs earlier than the Allies are able to deal with them and stomp? Should I disarm that signal flare the enemy put near our base defenses, or should I deliberately ignore it and go idle with the rest of my team so that when the flare goes off, our team gets the arbitrary pity buff that'll help our superior team snowball the game even harder when we decide to actually play instead of feigning being AFK? Maybe the enemy put that flare there hoping for us to disarm it so that they could get a pity buff! But I'd better not play too well, don't want to trip the points threshold and give the enemy an advantage that might let them come back, I'd better just stop playing the objective right now and type !killme and afk at home for a few minutes to let the enemy's points catch up so that we can start attacking them safely again... assuming they're not also aware of how BS this system is and also play hard to get until the last 2 minutes. It doesn't even sound like the same game genre anymore, and I can't claim to follow many competitive games but I've never heard of anything as bizarre as this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Since some of us love making videos so much, maybe a few of us could get together one weekend and record tutorial/example videos. I mean, true, something scripted and with a goal in mind is a far cry from just recording a random match, but I'd be willing to play Mindless Target A or something or provide fodder for any tutorial maker if we wanted to give it a go. Say just a bunch of quick shorts just showing what each unit does/what to do with them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Just now, OrangeP47 said: Since some of us love making videos so much, maybe a few of us could get together one weekend and record tutorial/example videos. I mean, true, something scripted and with a goal in mind is a far cry from just recording a random match, but I'd be willing to play Mindless Target A or something or provide fodder for any tutorial maker if we wanted to give it a go. Say just a bunch of quick shorts just showing what each unit does/what to do with them. We did have unit tutorial videos back in Gamma, back when the launcher had a built-in game manual. Judging from the flood of ingame questions relating to unit functionalities at the time I don't think the manual actually saw much use though, plus some of those videos weren't very accurate even at the time they were made. Updated unit tutorial videos would be greatly appreciated, though I have no idea where we'd put them that new players would know to go. This might be fruit for a new thread as well - how to script them etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Just now, Pushwall said: We did have unit tutorial videos back in Gamma, back when the launcher had a built-in game manual. Judging from the flood of ingame questions relating to unit functionalities at the time I don't think the manual actually saw much use though, plus some of those videos weren't very accurate even at the time they were made. Updated unit tutorial videos would be greatly appreciated, though I have no idea where we'd put them that new players would know to go. This might be fruit for a new thread as well - how to script them etc. Yeah, getting views would be the hard part. I'm confident we could come up with a decent script. I'd even be willing to do the writing/planning on that, but given my perpetual mic issues along with my low bandwith, I just probably shouldn't be the cameraman. Still more than happy to provide free kills for a good cause by being the targets though, heh. I guess I can create a new thread for that, just for gauging interest right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 The other thing with unit tutorial vids is that unit functionalities have changed a lot more across the 1.5 years of Delta than they have across the 4.5 years of Gamma. If a big change comes, I guess those things have to be updated again. After the next big update I don't expect much drastic change in the future though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Heh, well we can hold off on it for a bit, no rush. I was just pretty impressed by the Yak video so it kind of inspired an idea, so to speak. I think at the very least we'd be able to muster a few more like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRAYDO Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 @OrangeP47 start up a thread of this idea in the Testing section and let's start taking signups from within our ranks. We can get staff along for this and set up some sessions, discuss the needed coding, scripts, dialogue scripts, planning, and all that jazz. I call Voice Actor! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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