W3D Hub w3dhub launcher for Apex

[Wallywood]

This like Coke threatening to ban all soda, because more people enjoy Pepsi. 🤔

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Wallywood said:

This like Coke threatening to ban all soda, because more people enjoy Pepsi. 🤔

Thats subjective bud, I'm a coke boi.

Dr Pepper is king though!

[shaitan]

Is this why zunnie had problems with you guys awhile back trying to get his stuff on w3d?

[Wallywood]

Just now, shaitan said:

Is this why zunnie had problems with you guys awhile back trying to get his stuff on w3d?

Please don’t speak on his behalf. That’s bad form. 

[shaitan]

I am asking about the trolling.

[Wallywood]

3 minutes ago, shaitan said:

I am asking about the trolling.

You’re asking, about something you no nothing about. I actually went and had a talk with Zunnie a few years back about trying to find a common ground for both teams. It was MPF that turned away the Discussion.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, shaitan said:

I am asking about the trolling.

We do not "troll" in any official capacity.

Any comments made about soft drinks or such like are intended to simply remind us that this is a gaming community and whatever happens is likely not worth fighting over, while simultaneously working towards a solution (even when it may not exactly look like it).

[Wallywood]

8 minutes ago, shaitan said:

I am asking about the trolling.

That is not me trolling at all. That is a literal comparison of what is going on here. 

[OWA]

5 hours ago, shaitan said:

Is this why zunnie had problems with you guys awhile back trying to get his stuff on w3d?

If you're referring to the fact that we refused his request to run an APB server, it was because MPF was known at the time to heavily mod the game experience from what we deemed appropriate, turning it into something that didn't play or sound like the game that we made at all. Also, there weren't enough players to populate more than one server at the time, so a second one wasn't really required.

Otherwise, I don't know what you're referring to.

[roszek]

I'm just curios, you made lots of complaints about  the imperial age launcher that mpf used because you said it was giving away the ren client when dblaney and ik were on mpf.

The arguments were that you could join through relist or whatever cause always.etc was not modified, and the argument pro were none of the stock maps were included,.

(I mean you can get the stock maps with mixcheck right?)

I agreed with those who opposed it and still do.

So I am curious as to why your minds were changed is all.

Also I don't think the trolling is helpful.

[shaitan]

The blasé attitude towards this kind of ticked me off. What you seem to not grasp is with you giving that server a free handout: it will potentially cost my server, MPF server, Exodus Coop server, and Renegade overall in the long run. It always comes down to no players = no donations = noone playing = dead game.

I was watching him sweet talk his players into downloading the w3dhub launcher lastnight. What do you think that means? That means Renegade players are being taken to another game, after all of our work of trying to keep people IN this game, and bring them there. Which is ironic: if any of you run Ren servers and have looked at serial hashes, you'll note something...and that something was from 2008/2009. That something was zunnie and I doing what we could back then to keep our game going.

Him and you guys are not going to kill our game. Not after all of these years, and if you're too blind to see that is the end result of all of this, then there is a problem.

Quote

[10-08][23:38:02] <ikmapsbot> 08Testament: thats a miblauncher
[10-08][23:40:53] <dblaney1> !msg Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-08][23:40:53] <ikmapsbot> 14Host: (dblaney1@IRC): Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-08][23:41:52] <dblaney1> !msg Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-08][23:41:53] <ikmapsbot> 14Host: (dblaney1@IRC): Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-09][00:34:17] <ikmapsbot> 04&dblaney1: gibblets you already have the launcher version
[10-09][00:50:39] <ikmapsbot> 08Gibblets: Its a top rate launcher
[10-09][00:51:01] <ikmapsbot> 04&dblaney1: seriously though. download the launcher
[10-09][01:14:33] <ikmapsbot> 14Host: Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-09][01:39:49] <ikmapsbot> 14Host: Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-09][01:41:02] <ikmapsbot> 14Host: Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-09][01:41:07] <ikmapsbot> 14Host: Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-09][02:06:03] <ikmapsbot> 08@Cereal_Killer: Guys Make sure you get that launcher
[10-09][02:06:56] <ikmapsbot> 08@Cereal_Killer: the launcher comes with like 5 different games
[10-09][02:07:30] <ikmapsbot> 04mr.ed: boo launcher yay renlist
[10-09][02:07:41] <ikmapsbot> 08&KTFF: tried the launcher?
[10-09][02:08:08] <ikmapsbot> 04Gibblets: a few different mods on the launcher too
[10-09][02:18:54] <ikmapsbot> 14Host: [BR] Download the W3DHub launcher IA Client at w3dhub.com for an enhanced experience including improved graphics and performance.
[10-09][02:22:44] <ikmapsbot> 08@Cereal_Killer: does anyone need teh link to get teh launcher?
[10-09][02:22:53] <ikmapsbot> 04rackz: w3dhub.com

I am seeing a few people on this forum who are/were apart of Renegade, namely the coders who are doing it by themselves these days(TT). Is this the sort of thing you want as well: dead Renegade servers, so you can code for a totally dead game(we've been on our last legs for years, and still sort of going)? You don't have to answer, but think about that.

*Edit* For the record, I had no problems with him taking RC players and MPF players to his server, when I thought it was legitimate(they were still in Renegade, that's competition). For two weeks this has been a thing, I dealt with it, MPF dealt with it. Lastnight I was told about this launcher and I downloaded it to see how it was doing things. To me this is no different than when Facebook went to India to "give out their help/free internet", and only allowed the Indian peoples to use their browsers to access the net. The end result of that if noone's heard of this, was their version of Net Neutrality to get rid of Facebook. lol

Edited October 9, 2018 by shaitan

[danpaul88]

23 minutes ago, roszek said:

I'm just curios, you made lots of complaints about  the imperial age launcher that mpf used because you said it was giving away the ren client when dblaney and ik were on mpf.

The arguments were that you could join through relist or whatever cause always.etc was not modified, and the argument pro were none of the stock maps were included,.

(I mean you can get the stock maps with mixcheck right?)

I agreed with those who opposed it and still do.

So I am curious as to why your minds were changed is all.

Also I don't think the trolling is helpful.

Firstly, let me to clarify this - the IA client downloaded by our launcher is *not* a complete Renegade client and cannot join Renegade servers. This was and remains an explicit precondition to our hosting of the downloadable client via our launcher. Until such a time as EA chooses to release Renegade as freeware we will not change this policy.

 

 

In relation to the wider topic, it may help to consider that I am actively looking into supporting users joining stock Renegade servers using our launcher and their own installation of Renegade.

Thisis tricky for the launcher as a lot of code was written with the expectation that it can install any game you don't already have on your behalf, so I'm in the process of adding interfaces which allow it to check whether these features are supported for a given application and adjust the UI appropriately when they are not.

 

 

Thus your Renegade servers will also get the 'best of both worlds', as you put it. I also plan to provide an alternative presence reporter which can be used in place of GSA, allowing server owners to stop opening the GSA firewall port and reduce the amount of traffic hitting them asking for player counts etc. This will be an optional alternative. It would be great if you could work with us on this to provide the best experience for all players.

 

I'm happy to answer any questions you have about how our infrastructure works and, as always, I remind everyone that feature requests, bug reports etc are always welcome via our public issue tracker - https://gitlab.com/w3dhub/w3dhub-launcher-net/issues

[roszek]

Ah I see, thanks for clearing that up @danpaul88

[shaitan]

Another FYI, you can direct connect using the Interim .exe's/pathways right into a normal Renegade server, because I just did it. I screenshooted, but cannot find the SS in the normal folder, nor the W3d folders. I have to get to work as I am already late.

Yes, I did read what you wrote about the launcher, DanPaul.

Edited October 9, 2018 by shaitan

[moonsense715]

C&C_Field_RxD is not a stock Renegade map. Can it connect to a server with stock maps that doesn't use ttfs? We will make sure that's not possible if it is right now.

[shaitan]

That argument does not work so well for a few reasons:

1. We still get brand new players and we talk them into getting scripts/sort their Ren's to be able to get into servers. 

2. We still run the stock maps, in order for non-scripts people to join.

3. RC itself is setup to try and keep each type of player happy. Modded/not modded/marathon/aow/tankers/snipers.

4. When players go from server to server each of us servers will help the players out when there are version mismatches.

 

Helping you and dblaney out with what I said regarding irc, and then you do this days later is a slap in the face.

*edit for #3* When all of the servers started dying and we had to have different settings to make everyone happy.

Edited October 9, 2018 by shaitan

[danpaul88]

I will look into this once I'm home from work - my understanding is that the IA client is meant to have removed all non essential files as they've been replaced by IAs own models, maps, sound effects etc. This should render it unable to join a traditional Renegade server. You didn't indicate whether, after downloading the map, the client was successful in actually joining the server?

 

It's possible ttfs has advanced to the point where it can effectively bootstrap an entire copy of Renegade from an empty shell, which would raise some interesting questions for those server owners in that case as they'd effectively be supplying downloads of most of the game content. Worth investigating.

[shaitan]

I had to get to work, I didn't fully download as I knew that file size was in fact from rc server.

Alls I want is fairness for our game, and you did say you'd try.

Edited October 9, 2018 by shaitan

[danpaul88]

It's worth pointing out that 700mb is almost the size of the stock always.dat so I think whichever server you were joining was filling in the entire always.dat from it's ttfs. You might want to let the server owner know so they can fix that - it's not what ttfs is meant for.

[Wallywood]

39 minutes ago, shaitan said:

I had to get to work, I didn't fully download as I knew that file size was in fact from rc server.

Alls I want is fairness for our game, and you did say you'd try.

Still not seeing how “Do as we say, or we’ll do it for you.” Is fair. Would it be fair if the tables were turned? 

[shaitan]

I am that server owner, and that big file is from our remade sound system(mostly inside brenbot nowadays), and custom maps/weps.

Probably could clean that out better, but, if it isn't broke we don't fix it.

[shaitan]

Wallywood, out of everyone posting here, Danpaul has been the only one to see the other side of the issue.That is one reason why I said what I did when you all have acted like it does not matter(already said the other). There zero way our Ren servers can compete with this latest change, and you know it.

You can get angry with me and turn it all onto me, that's fine, from experience you know I can take it(plus I am still here after everyone else turned away from Ren). You can stab me in the back, that's fine too. How often have any of you personally helped me out with any issues over the years? I know I've helped yours out without wanting a thing in return.

[Wallywood]

15 minutes ago, shaitan said:

Wallywood, out of everyone posting here, Danpaul has been the only one to see the other side of the issue.That is one reason why I said what I did when you all have acted like it does not matter(already said the other). There zero way our Ren servers can compete with this latest change, and you know it.

You can get angry with me and turn it all onto me, that's fine, from experience you know I can take it(plus I am still here after everyone else turned away from Ren). You can stab me in the back, that's fine too. How often have any of you personally helped me out with any issues over the years? I know I've helped yours out without wanting a thing in return.

I haven’t seen ANYONE here “agree” with you. I have seen people try to empathize and find some sort of logic in this whacked out idea you insists  is fair.  

[shaitan]

Would you like me to let as many Renegade players know what's going on so they can have their own say here? I like the pollings ingame, myself, as it is more accurate than from a forum. Forum polls/discussions have the tendency to be backasswards as to what 'players' want. Democracy after hearing pros and cons of what is at stake, since you reminded me I am the only one here.

The reason I haven't so far was because this will turn into a gigantic shithow. You know, and I kno, that Ren & APB players are like oil and water. Which is why it's just me right now posting. If you stop and think about that and the fact that I have been the only one from our respective communities posting...you might come up with the conclusion that we're on the same page regarding this. 

Whether you think so or not, I'd rather see my community die and we merge with MPF/Exodus than see this come to pass of Renegade losing all their players to a ren that gets advantages and locks out people.

Also, on the stealing thing: db did that to RC once upon a time with regards to our custom weaps that Blacky made and ported from Ren Demo calling them "his creation". So, I believe MPF after seeing their proof.

Edited October 9, 2018 by shaitan

[OWA]

19 minutes ago, shaitan said:

Would you like me to let as many Renegade players know what's going on so they can have their own say here? I like the pollings ingame, myself, as it is more accurate than from a forum. Forum polls/discussions have the tendency to be backasswards as to what 'players' want. Democracy after hearing pros and cons of what is at stake, since you reminded me I am the only one here.

The reason I haven't so far was because this will turn into a gigantic shithow. You know, and I kno, that Ren & APB players are like oil and water. Which is why it's just me right now posting. If you stop and think about that and the fact that I have been the only one from our respective communities posting...you might come up with the conclusion that we're on the same page regarding this. 

Whether you think so or not, I'd rather see my community die and we merge with MPF/Exodus than see this come to pass of Renegade losing all their players to a ren that gets advantages and locks out people.

Also, on the stealing thing: db did that to RC once upon a time with regards to our custom weaps that Blacky made and ported from Ren Demo calling them "his creation". So, I believe MPF after seeing their proof.

Just a question. Out of curiosity, if players could hypothetically join APB using RenList, would we be having the same conversation as we are having right now?

If the issue is truly and only one of competition between servers, then the Renegade support that's coming for the launcher should fix this whole problem right? I can say for definite that once it comes in we plan to support all servers (and not blacklist servers that we don't like) in the interest of fairness.

It would be interesting to see how many players have switched to the W3D Launcher to play IA and how many are using RenList to judge whether the numbers point to a correlation with your statements. It's interesting, since it's really hard to judge without the hard numbers.

Also, I'd like to point out that the latest version of IA isn't Renegade. It's a total conversion mod that adds a large amount of new unit types in order to make the gameplay vastly different.

[ChopBam]

1 hour ago, shaitan said:

How often have any of you personally helped me out with any issues over the years? I know I've helped yours out without wanting a thing in return.

I'm just going to comment on this from a humanitarian standpoint. The very fact you're bringing this up means you did want something in return, and it's just boiling up to the surface now. There's a gigantic difference between helping people out of the kindness of your heart, and helping people out of selfishness or to manipulate their emotions. I know this firsthand from the way I grew up, so I can sniff behavior like this from a mile away, and man TBH it kinda stinks.

[shaitan]

Chopbam: so does you guys using the services my community has paid for years and then doing this to us.

OWA: Your APB servers have showed on gsa for years. As of lastnight I do not know.

Edited October 9, 2018 by shaitan

[ChopBam]

7 minutes ago, shaitan said:

Chopbam: so does you guys using the services my community has paid for years and then doing this to us.

I don't know what's been done to you, I'm not really a part of that. I'm not involved and I don't have all the facts. All I'm addressing right now is you saying "I did x for you" and then making threats. When APB was still with BHP, we had a very manipulative host who tried holding everything over our heads, going so far as to "take away staff privileges" when they didn't do exactly what he wanted over some petty thing. Sure, he paid for the server. Yes, he paid for the hosting, but did he really have the right to do whatever he wanted just because of that? The staff lost motivation to work on the game, among many other things. Eventually, after suffering years of such behavior, we left. And we're much better for it and have been getting more time to spend actually working on what many of us would consider a neat fun game.

[OWA]

23 minutes ago, shaitan said:

OWA: Your APB servers have showed on gsa for years. As of lastnight I do not know.

They have shown for years, but that's not what I'm asking. Nobody can use RenList to join APB because they get a mismatch.

But if they hypothetically could join and the majority of players were playing APB (in the place of IA) instead of on RenCorner and MPF, would this situation be near enough the same in your eyes?

[shaitan]

That may be a thing in your case Chop, but it isn't in this. From my standpoint I see it as being used and slapped in the face and being told to like it. I know what abusers are Chopbam, I've had my own IRL and have stayed single on account of it for 10 years.

I'll test more tonight on the direct connecting...as that is no standalone game if it is able to join renegade servers. You guys are fixated on that, I've already showed you screenshot/cell pic that it is possible using those exe/paths. A lot of you can test it yourselves since you have the game(or did).

The Renlist thing you mentioned wouldn't be a bad idea, OWA. You probably thought I would have said the opposite? Think about why I would say that...people would intermingle and this whole thing would be moot...it'd be like what I mentioned with competition between servers. 

*edit* The downside of doing that is the trust thing, after making this topic I kind of don't trust you to care about what's best for Renegade. After seeing the replies even before I got pissy lastnight.

Edited October 9, 2018 by shaitan