Attention The State of the mods, but also our communities.

[TeamWolf]

On 1/4/2019 at 7:22 PM, LiamGriever said:

Moreover, the community aspect is what made this game good. Because lets be perfectly honest, Renegade is anything but "Good" in an objective view. Until you lot, MPF, and whatever little else still counts as communities anymore around here can work together again, renegade will never again have that community feel. Even internally in W3D, you guys as a community are a laughing stock. You literally have a splinter community because a couple of your admins got overly PC. This is a community of people from a game in the 2000s, PC was never a thing then and in a community that is filled with those people it never will be!

I remember a time when the communities werent toxic. Where they all pooled together to create patches and security for the game. Where they shared ban lists, had tournaments, and the communities were all essentially a big community. Because of the lack of this, Renegade and its mods arent that anymore. Its a vanity project for the Game Dev College rejects who couldnt make a fucking java game to beat bloons tower defence. (Not a jab at your skills, some models, maps, etc are great, but is definitely a jab at your dedication to one project and time management)

There has always been a pretty hard stance on a fair amount of things classed as PC in recent conversation. The old BHP community back in it's prime was great because of this almost no tolerance for it, because it bred a much better atmosphere. Now, I'm not saying dark humour and memes don't have a place around here. This is clearly something we have indeed lost touch with and the sheer lack of communication that has led to that latter part is astonishing.

Sorry guys, but thats more or less of whats become the truth to me around here now. Take of it what you will. I'll still be around to play games because as individuals most of you are alright to chat with and hang with. But Owners, Admins, Devs, all of you higher ups. Something needs to change, or these little projects of yours will end like AR, Reborn and Dune. Sat on a back shelf for years gathering dust and an interest in them largely lost.

 

On 1/4/2019 at 8:24 PM, Testament said:

I don't remember ever seeing you ingame. Ever. For anything.

Now, this community has been in danger of being flushed for years for various reasons. It may have its populated times and lulls but they are much too extreme and wind up turning off anyone who may be interested away. Nobody wants to join up into games that aren't always gonna have a decent amount of players.

Funny enough, I've been posting about this on the various chans for years and I had someone tell me "No, we don't want THOSE types of players.."
Lets get real, you don't get top be choosey for RENEGADE. A nearly 20 year old game that wasn't exactly popular to begin with. We should be doing EVERYTHING to retain individuals as once regulars are gone you lose 1 person who will be in that game nearly everyday giving others someone to play against.

As an aside, this current "professionalism" bullshit I keep hearing from the bigwigs makes me utterly cringe. I've had to consult with them (people wholly unrelated to what I was doing) in order to post a fan video they didn't like, when I already spoke with the LEADER of that mod project and the PR lead giving a go ahead. That type of micromanagement and obsession with control means this place was never gonna grow on its own or have much chance of holding anyone's interest who wasn't incredibly autistic about Renegade. Throw away regulars for the potential to please some undefined base and people who don't even regularly play because some people don't have a skin thicker than a grapes. I know our base, and we're not doing what we can to reach them.

For a portion of our community to become THIS disgruntled is concerning, to say the least. It's true that there has always been a part of the community with this type of culture (limited, but there), but the lack of communication that's amounted to this is unacceptable. In turn, from a PR stand point, airing dirty laundry in public isn't good either, I hope you agree. But, it shows how much that portion of our community feel that they aren't being heard, and partly on their side maybe not explaining or expressing themselves in a more constructive or communicative manner. I feel like I need to state, this is not a jab.

 

On 1/4/2019 at 9:56 PM, Frashy said:

Complaining about toxicity in the community while simultaneously complaining about not being allowed to be toxic due to removal of the grille is a bit odd. If there are people that got so upset about the grille being removed that they left the community, good riddance, really. That channel was gross. 

It's also a bit odd that this post talks about how bad toxicity is while it itself reeks of toxicity.

But I guess judging from half of the replies in the thread, that toxicity is true to form. Yikes. 

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. The lack of communication and the type of venting that has followed hasn't helped the situation.

 

10 hours ago, OWA said:

In some ways you're right. RenForums is a ghost town and there are only a handful of server communities left hosting servers which have definitely seen better days. Renegade as it stands is pretty dead. That's why we got some retaliation when we launched Interim Apex; the owners of those stock servers didn't appreciate the competition that we brought into their space and our server was subsequently blacklisted by the owners of the RenList server.

That being said, we aren't a traditional Renegade community. We put our focus into improving the engine rather than hosting stock Renegade content; our latest version of the scripts  project (version 5.0) doesn't event support base Renegade anymore. This year though, we do plan to support Renegade a bit better, in order to try and unify the communities a bit more. As it stands, I feel we are distrusted by communities such as MPF and Rencorner, which works against us, but I hope we can change our image for the better in the coming year.

As for recoil, we've actually been talking about whether we should implement it or not. We have quite an amazing level of flexibility for new features these days and it's definitely something that hasn't gone unnoticed.

The community makes the game, but the game also makes the community. There's a lot of charm in Renegade, but something that it does incredibly well in particular is vehicular combat. There were still games being released 10+ years afterwards that has worse vehicle implementation than Renegade. What we should definitely look to do is expand outwards, but also try and heal these wounds as you say, so that we may move forward as a community that is a fair bit more united than it is currently.

I honestly don't feel that we are a laughing stock. Who's laughing at us right now? It's certainly not the rest of the C&C community or EA.

I disagree about the 2000s being less PC than today though. I'm not sure if you were around in the APB/BHP community during the 2000's, but it was a really wonderful place to be (despite Aircrafkiller banning anyone who looked at him in a funny way). We had a large community who regularly played (and modded) our games, but also respected each other thanks to a moderation team that kept shitposting to a minimum and thoroughly enforced the community guidelines.

Anyone who said the N word in-game or on IRC was instantly banned. You can imagine the cry of "CENSORSHIP + MUH FREE SPEECH THO" from the Grillers if that were to happen today though.

  Reveal hidden contents

We're having a meeting soon though, so we'll decide the best course of action for the Grille and associated behaviours there. With that said, I firmly believe that harbouring a miniature version of 4chan's /pol/ board has no place in a community about modding a video game from 2002.

 

I remember that time too and you're right, it was great! Unfortunately MP-Gaming has been dead of nearly a decade now and we're the only community hosting APB. MPF did a approach us about hosting an APB server, however we refused because the population in APB was so small that it didn't warrant an extra server and we also had doubts about MPF leaving the APB gameplay experience in-tact, given their track record with previous servers and questionable mods.

I'd say this, AR has always been my passion project, but it has most certainly also been a source of portfolio material for me. These projects got me into the games industry and have introduced me to so many wonderful new friends from around the world. Your comment about Game Dev College rejects is rather shortsighted seeing as a large majority of our dev team are now working professionals, with a significant amount of our new code team hires being skilled professional programmers.

To your last point though, it does make me realise something; we aren't as transparent with our team structure and "who's working on what" than we used to be, which may be a contributing factor to your comments. Granted, it does take us a long time to get our arses into gear and make content, but the split across the teams is a bit more polarising than you might think.

The new Ground Zero project, for example, is being entirely developed by @Killing_You and @Ice (so far), who have never really held any sole allegiance to any particular projects before. KY has previously worked on audio a lot, but this is the first project that he will be doing the unit and structure work for, making this a new learning experience for him; as well as a cool game for you guys. ICE is a military specialist with 3D skills, which he will largely be carrying over to GZ. 

This thread will definitely be a talking point in the upcoming meeting, so thanks for posting. We do have some fairly lofty plans brewing for wider C&C community integration, but I'm not really at liberty to talk about those yet. Rest assured though, we've heard you and we will be discussing our next moves carefully.

I largely agree with the above, this topic does point out a lot of our community flaws, what we need to recapture and some of the community really wants to see or have actioned.

The thing is, we quite like developing for the Renegade W3D Engine. This is the main reason amongst these other ones:

• UDK is now essentially a dead game engine because of UE4.
• Renegade X is on UDK, but barely has more players than stock Renegade. The draw to change engines just isn't worth it.
• Moving to UE4/UDK would leave us with a very high dependency on creating current/last generation art assets that require specific pipelines; e.g. PBR (Physically Based Rendering) or Normal/Specular. We don't have a team who knows how to create such assets, as we develop solely using diffuse maps.
• Moving engine would require to either buy or create animations for infantry, We currently have no animators on the team.
• Moving engine would throw away the years of work we have put into the codebase; essentially putting our code team into a position where they have to code the most basic Renegade gameplay elements (i.e Harvesting, Buildings, Purchase System) back into the new engine, which would take a lot of time and effort.
• Little-to-nobody on our staff roster knows how to use engines like UDK or UE4. We would have to re-learn a lot of things to become competent again.
• We do this in our spare time. It's not like we're being paid to make these games. Part of the reason we make these games is because we enjoy working with the engine and improving it as a hobby.

Other than better graphics (which we can't have due to lack of artists), I don't exactly know why the suggestions to switch engine game time and time again. It's just not realistic.

Not to mention that come projects that go into newer engines have been handed C&Ds. (The RA2 mod for Renegade X comes to mind)

Please take discussion surrounding the BBQ Grille to a different thread instead of derailing this one. Cheers!

As brash as this was, I feel like it has become relevant given the topic's agenda. There is a part of the community who feel like they either aren't properly listened to, respected or being treated properly. Granted, they weren't always controlled with their content but there has obviously been a major lack of overall communication. Like it or not, it's effected things around here.

 

[wolf]

2 hours ago, OWA said:

Have a read of the other points I mentioned and try not to focus on just one. Moving to a new engine is not a good idea collectively because of all of those things.

It's like telling the Mental Omega team that they should move to the C&C3 SAGE engine or the OpenRA guys that they should be using UE4. It's just not gonna happen.

 

 

Some of those points are just plain BS tbh. You can always find people who possess the necessary skills.
UDK still has an active community, its far from dead. And i bet some of the Renegade-x community would be willing to help out to a certain extent.They didnt put in nearly half of Tiberian Suns vehicles for no reason.

Nostalgia is a very bad reason to stick to W3D. Do you still work with GMax out of nostalgia? I doubt it. 

How about you opensource all of your content so others can do what you are incapable of doing? A functioning port would be up and running within a few months, i can guarantee you that.
I think its misleading to claim that its too hard to too difficult to do a proper port to UDK. its a piece of cake with the tools that are available right now.

Edited January 6, 2019 by wolf

[Jeod]

You can guarantee a functioning port? Do you know how to create models? Export them from w3d and import them into UE4? Do you know if it's possible to convert diffuse maps to specular or PBR? If it isn't, do you know how to create those kinds of maps that are demanded by UE4? Do you know how to animate models with more advanced technique than w3d currently needs?

If you can do all that, then why not do it yourself--and by that I mean showcase things like APB logic in UE4, apply to staff team, offer to teach fellow developers, etc. Instead of being hostile towards dev-fans who work on these mods in their spare time and are curious about how far they can take the w3d engine, why not dig deeper and find out about personal goals and ambitions? Communication and transparency is a two-way street. We've stated already that we'd like to do a better job of it on our end, but hostility from the other end isn't productive towards the common goal.

[wolf]

15 minutes ago, Jeod said:

You can guarantee a functioning port? Do you know how to create models? Export them from w3d and import them into UE4? Do you know if it's possible to convert diffuse maps to specular or PBR? If it isn't, do you know how to create those kinds of maps that are demanded by UE4? Do you know how to animate models with more advanced technique than w3d currently needs?

If you can do all that, then why not do it yourself--and by that I mean showcase things like APB logic in UE4, apply to staff team, offer to teach fellow developers, etc. Instead of being hostile towards dev-fans who work on these mods in their spare time and are curious about how far they can take the w3d engine, why not dig deeper and find out about personal goals and ambitions? Communication and transparency is a two-way street. We've stated already that we'd like to do a better job of it on our end, but hostility from the other end isn't productive towards the common goal.

UDK

But yes, ive been apart of both the Reborn and RenX team for some time. Porting APB/TS/AR to UDK would be a walk in the park. I still have Reborns source files and am considering doing just that. Just to show its possible :P

Edited January 6, 2019 by wolf

[Jeod]

Actions do speak louder than words. However, I for one don't judge a mod by graphics alone. For example, these guys got a functional chronotank complete with a teleport-targeting map into W3D. A selling point for UDK wouldn't just be that it looks better, but you'd be wise to make an argument for the greater possibilities and ease-of-functionality. Consider what features APB/TSR/AR could have but are limited by W3D, and consider if UDK could support such pipedreams.

Take it as a challenge if you like. Either way, seeing C&C FPS progress on more engine platforms will most likely be a spark to the greater modding community even if it doesn't affect the dev team here. I think proving that it's possible and showcasing the possibilities will bond the community together in a way it desperately needs.

[TeamWolf]

33 minutes ago, wolf said:

UDK

But yes, ive been apart of both the Reborn and RenX team for some time. Porting APB/TS/AR to UDK would be a walk in the park. I still have Reborns source files and am considering doing just that. Just to show its possible 😛

I thought it was you, you change your name more than a girl getting ready to go out on a Friday night haha. I know you're stance on our projects and you've had this view for a long time now. It might be on the cards at some point, but not in the near future as you can see we have more immediate tasks. 

If you want to talk about things more about this, hit me up on Discord. This isn't really that on topic for this, but it's a fair statement.

[wolf]

No need to talk. Its gonna happen.

2 hours ago, Jeod said:

Actions do speak louder than words. However, I for one don't judge a mod by graphics alone. For example, these guys got a functional chronotank complete with a teleport-targeting map into W3D. A selling point for UDK wouldn't just be that it looks better, but you'd be wise to make an argument for the greater possibilities and ease-of-functionality. Consider what features APB/TSR/AR could have but are limited by W3D, and consider if UDK could support such pipedreams.

Take it as a challenge if you like. Either way, seeing C&C FPS progress on more engine platforms will most likely be a spark to the greater modding community even if it doesn't affect the dev team here. I think proving that it's possible and showcasing the possibilities will bond the community together in a way it desperately needs.

Definitely not just for the graphics alone. W3D is very limited in what it can do, and while UDK also has its limitations, its alot more flexible coding wise.

The video below is not my work, but it shows Reborns HMRLs using floating physics instead of having to resort to invisible wheels to create the illusion of a floating vehicle.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by wolf

[TeamWolf]

I'm well aware of the work they have been doing, but thank you for sharing.

[shaitan]

13 hours ago, OWA said:

In some ways you're right. RenForums is a ghost town and there are only a handful of server communities left hosting servers which have definitely seen better days. Renegade as it stands is pretty dead. That's why we got some retaliation when we launched Interim Apex; the owners of those stock servers didn't appreciate the competition that we brought into their space and our server was subsequently blacklisted by the owners of the RenList server.

That being said, we aren't a traditional Renegade community. We put our focus into improving the engine rather than hosting stock Renegade content; our latest version of the scripts  project (version 5.0) doesn't event support base Renegade anymore. This year though, we do plan to support Renegade a bit better, in order to try and unify the communities a bit more. As it stands, I feel we are distrusted by communities such as MPF and Rencorner, which works against us, but I hope we can change our image for the better in the coming year.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

We're having a meeting soon though, so we'll decide the best course of action for the Grille and associated behaviours there. With that said, I firmly believe that harbouring a miniature version of 4chan's /pol/ board has no place in a community about modding a video game from 2002

 

 

You're right, this last year has been bad. What you guys did to us screwed us beyond repair in Renegade. You did not do one thing to fix what you broke, you never had the intentions to do so. If you think that I cannot spot a person(s) who is doing nothing but dangling false hope(while others shoot it down at the same time), then you must think I have not been on this earth for very long. You guys had 2+ months from the start of it all to the block to do something that did not involve you covering your asses legally.

Do not think for one second that I do not know about some chats that were had between you guys and dblaney that required Apex to be listed on both platforms as a prerequisite(and only it joinable/visible from both).

I was upfront with you guys, I gave you 2 aces-up-my-sleeve that I could've easily used against you to shut that thing down asap. I waited, and got my guys to not flip out. I didn't make it that public beyond (I think) 2 shoutbox posts refuting 2 ignorant people running their mouths. I gave you guys factual proof of what that modded server-dipping-from-renegade-and-only-allowed-on-w3d-platform was doing to us, when it started, how many players it had prior to its W3d Launcher start date, and how no matter what: the two remaining renegade servers could not compete with a launcher from an entirely different community getting that startup player boost that we cannot compete with(unless we advertise outside of Renegade, which I refuse to do, just to watch them filter into there). You were right about one thing OWA: EA does not give two shits about old games, I tried repeatedly to get them to make Renegade freeware.

I didn't know about the block until I got home that night, but that isn't me putting blame on someone else. I agreed with it, but was also telling my guys and MPF to wait and not block each time it was brought up. That was hope, even though I knew you wouldn't care about the rest of the community(if you had, none of this would have happened). You didn't care about XP users for scripts 5.0(most from outside of Europe/USA) until I showed you proof that they still exist.

I know what the repercussions of all this could lead to, I told you I was prepared for those: 1.Do you remember what I said about MPF and Rencorner would merge to keep Renegade alive? That's in the works game server-wise, and if it comes to it it'll happen. That right there should tell you something, after our history, that we'll put aside any differences and trust one another(individuals and administrations). 2. Scripts builds, I know who started working on those. I also know if it came to it it'd take some time, but if we had to we'd get everyone to revert their scripts: it'd be done(just like how we got the majority to start using Renlist). I know developers throw fits, I've been dealing with that for 15 years in other games besides the ones on the Renegade engine.

 

[Dadud]

Wolf, saberhawks already has his w3d asset importer working 80% of the time in just a few weeks time. Unity would be a better move.

[Jeod]

2 hours ago, shaitan said:

You're right, this last year has been bad. What you guys did to us screwed us beyond repair in Renegade. You did not do one thing to fix what you broke, you never had the intentions to do so. If you think that I cannot spot a person(s) who is doing nothing but dangling false hope(while others shoot it down at the same time), then you must think I have not been on this earth for very long. You guys had 2+ months from the start of it all to the block to do something that did not involve you covering your asses legally.

Do not think for one second that I do not know about some chats that were had between you guys and dblaney that required Apex to be listed on both platforms as a prerequisite(and only it joinable/visible from both).

I was upfront with you guys, I gave you 2 aces-up-my-sleeve that I could've easily used against you to shut that thing down asap. I waited, and got my guys to not flip out. I didn't make it that public beyond (I think) 2 shoutbox posts refuting 2 ignorant people running their mouths. I gave you guys factual proof of what that modded server-dipping-from-renegade-and-only-allowed-on-w3d-platform was doing to us, when it started, how many players it had prior to its W3d Launcher start date, and how no matter what: the two remaining renegade servers could not compete with a launcher from an entirely different community getting that startup player boost that we cannot compete with(unless we advertise outside of Renegade, which I refuse to do, just to watch them filter into there). You were right about one thing OWA: EA does not give two shits about old games, I tried repeatedly to get them to make Renegade freeware.

I didn't know about the block until I got home that night, but that isn't me putting blame on someone else. I agreed with it, but was also telling my guys and MPF to wait and not block each time it was brought up. That was hope, even though I knew you wouldn't care about the rest of the community(if you had, none of this would have happened). You didn't care about XP users for scripts 5.0(most from outside of Europe/USA) until I showed you proof that they still exist.

I know what the repercussions of all this could lead to, I told you I was prepared for those: 1.Do you remember what I said about MPF and Rencorner would merge to keep Renegade alive? That's in the works game server-wise, and if it comes to it it'll happen. That right there should tell you something, after our history, that we'll put aside any differences and trust one another(individuals and administrations). 2. Scripts builds, I know who started working on those. I also know if it came to it it'd take some time, but if we had to we'd get everyone to revert their scripts: it'd be done(just like how we got the majority to start using Renlist). I know developers throw fits, I've been dealing with that for 15 years in other games besides the ones on the Renegade engine.

 

[Jerad2142]

33 minutes ago, Dadud said:

Wolf, saberhawks already has his w3d asset importer working 80% of the time in just a few weeks time. Unity would be a better move.

Unity's netcode is garbage and would need a lot of work to have a stable passenger system and proper client controls.

[Jeod]

Jokes aside, I have zero say in whatever beef is between MPF and W3DHub. From an outsiders perspective though it's like beating a dead horse when it should be water under the bridge for the most part or at the very least set aside for the time being. Imagine walking back into the Renegade community, curious to see what's happening since it's apparently still somewhat alive, and seeing the kind of stuff like "MPF vs W3DHub" and "BBQ-Grille/free speech" drama etc.

Maybe there's a point to be made, but it gets very tiring to see constantly.

[shaitan]

It isn't 'MPF vs W3d', that's your problem Jeod. It's you guys screwing Renegade over all. His comment was 17 hours before I posted, not 17 months("stop! stop! it's already dead"). If you want it to be dead so you can go back to whatever sand your head is buried in; then stop bringing it up and lying about how it went down.

[GraYaSDF]

4 hours ago, wolf said:

The video below is not my work, but it shows Reborns HMRLs using floating physics instead of having to resort to invisible wheels to create the illusion of a floating vehicle.

That's actually a good example! I remember few men (they asked me to do some music for a trailer), they were working on Kosmofront videogame made in UE4, and even then it was a bit hard to code and test new physics. TibTech partially have the necessary codes for physics, but they are mostly focused on anti-cheat, bug fixing and new engine calls, so I cannot start normally to program these physics (and also other features). I already had some successful experiments in classic Renegade, it was hard to make because of huge limitations.

[wolf]

1 hour ago, Dadud said:

Wolf, saberhawks already has his w3d asset importer working 80% of the time in just a few weeks time. Unity would be a better move.

Whats the point when you have original .max assets? I really like unity, but all gameplay code would have to be written from scratch. Which takes a long ass time.

I actually did a complete port of AR to RenX a while back. But never shared it because i got all assets from a dev and didnt want to get said dev in trouble. Although i dont think thats relevant anymore now. So lemme know if its OK to post up what i was working on 😉

Edited January 6, 2019 by wolf

[Jerad2142]

2 minutes ago, wolf said:

Whats the point when you have original .max assets? I really like unity, but all gameplay code would have to be written from scratch. Which takes a long ass time.

I actually did a complete port of AR to RenX a while back. But never shared it because i got all assets from a dev and didnt want to get said dev in trouble. Although i dont think thats relevant anymore now. So lemme know if its OK to post up what i was working on 😉

Either way I don't think an engine move is the way to go, Renegade X runs like 2x the players of original Renegade at peak times and its free, putting years of work into a new engine to get potentially double the players doesn't sound like a very good trade.

[wolf]

3 minutes ago, Jerad2142 said:

Either way I don't think an engine move is the way to go, Renegade X runs like 2x the players of original Renegade at peak times and its free, putting years of work into a new engine to get potentially double the players doesn't sound like a very good trade.

Thats true. But Renegade X has been out for years now. A new game will definitely attract more players. Renegade was never a really popular game to begin with. Just slap Red Alert on it and servers will start smoking. Red Alert 2 outsold renegade by 10:1 IIRC 

just for reference: that one video showing a VR version of RA got nearly 300k views in just a few days for christ sake. And it barely resembled RA

Edited January 6, 2019 by wolf

[Jerad2142]

1 minute ago, wolf said:

Thats true. But Renegade X has been out for years now. A new game will definitely attract more players. Renegade was never a really popular game to begin with. Just slap Red Alert on it and servers will start smoking. Red Alert 2 outsold renegade by 10:1 IIRC

EA actually won't let a new C&C game happen, it'd have to be built on Renegade X.

[GraYaSDF]

37 minutes ago, Jerad2142 said:

Unity's netcode is garbage and would need a lot of work to have a stable passenger system and proper client controls.

I've tried to code in Unity as well. For me, it is a bit more complicated than UE4, but before that, some guy was making the game called "Renegade Tiberium Wars", he is a Unity game maker, and I was testing that game. It was not bad for very first alpha, I made a whole soundtrack for that as well! Few months later, the project was canceled, guys behind it partially moved a project from Unity to HF Source, and from HF Source to another engine. With these moves there is a little probability that project will be abandoned.

[Jeod]

14 minutes ago, wolf said:

I actually did a complete port of AR to RenX a while back. But never shared it because i got all assets from a dev and didnt want to get said dev in trouble. Although i dont think thats relevant anymore now. So lemme know if its OK to post up what i was working on 😉

I think that depends on how old the assets are. A lot of AR assets have been edited and improved in the past two years. Just my two cents, it's something I'd like to see but also something a W3DHub dev would have to approve.

[Jerad2142]

5 minutes ago, GraYaSDF said:

I've tried to code in Unity as well. For me, it is a bit more complicated than UE4, but before that, some guy was making the game called "Renegade Tiberium Wars", he is a Unity game maker, and I was testing that game. It was not bad for very first alpha, I made a whole soundtrack for that as well! Few months later, the project was canceled, guys behind it partially moved a project from Unity to HF Source, and from HF Source to another engine. With these moves there is a little probability that project will be abandoned.

Last time I missed with Unity was 6 years ago, so its possible the netcode situation and object ownership has been resolved, I just know back then it was a mess. I have touched unreal since back when unreal tournament was still a big thing, I will say I enjoyed that more than unity lol.

[wolf]

2 minutes ago, Jerad2142 said:

EA actually won't let a new C&C game happen, it'd have to be built on Renegade X.

Thats what i ment lol :P A new game based on RenX. 

Im not sure why they C&D that VR Game,  Perhaps because of the overwhelming attention it got? 

[wolf]

3 minutes ago, Jeod said:

I think that depends on how old the assets are. A lot of AR assets have been edited and improved in the past two years.

Feb 2018.

[Jerad2142]

1 minute ago, wolf said:

Thats what i ment lol 😛 A new game based on RenX. 

Im not sure why they C&D that VR Game,  Perhaps because of the overwhelming attention it got? 

I think there was a bit of a management shift over the years and the new guys don't want to sign off of new standalones on new engines.

[GraYaSDF]

1 hour ago, Jerad2142 said:

I have touched unreal since back when unreal tournament was still a big thing, I will say I enjoyed that more than unity lol.

Yeah, good times 😃

[MPRA2]

The only thing going for Renegade X now is the looks..... Ever since the original dev team stopped patching, and that new team took over..... The game went full retard.... Base shields and non repairable buildings, inconsistent weapon damage, VERY quick games because explosives do way too much damage to building MCTs, etc....

But uh, Tiberium Essence 2.0 just dropped a few days ago, so we have the forgotten faction..... However the units are just borderline ridiculous like in RA3.... Floaters with bunkers strapped to them, tractors with 90mm guns, repair kits (they are the only way to repair other vehicles after you research the repair upgrade, aside from a repair ability.) Oh did I mention they are the MBT for the Forgotten? instead of a scrapped Medium tank or even a Titan Mk I that has a jury rigged cannon or even a chaingun on it? So they got Tiberium obelisk tanks, a Battle Bus that is unarmed but has a rocket pod on top of it. They have a Technical with a cannon on it, but its actually a machine gun. A few artillery units that I never touched, a smaller MARV that actually looks pretty cool, oh and before I forget.... THEY HAVE A SUPERWEAPON THAT WHEN BUILT, IS INSTANTLY CHARGED. Last I remember, the Forgotten were rag tag groups of tiberium mutants that scraps their own shit together using old tech.... I know they probably have technology, but it just seems a bit much when you have a tank with a giant blue tiberium crystal in the gun barrel that shoots out a ball of obelisk laser.......

Anyways, its a pretty fun mod.

Oh and Contra got a final .009 release. Doesnt really do much but some new units, and a few aesthetic changes to some units....

Edited January 6, 2019 by MPRA2

[OWA]

4 hours ago, shaitan said:

You're right, this last year has been bad. What you guys did to us screwed us beyond repair in Renegade. You did not do one thing to fix what you broke, you never had the intentions to do so. If you think that I cannot spot a person(s) who is doing nothing but dangling false hope(while others shoot it down at the same time), then you must think I have not been on this earth for very long. You guys had 2+ months from the start of it all to the block to do something that did not involve you covering your asses legally.

Hi Shaitan. We've been working on getting Renegade support for the launcher, but progress has been slow because danpaul88 (our launcher guy) has been very busy getting married amongst other things. Our intentions are to get Renegade (with all of the servers) up onto the launcher so that people who enjoy W3D Hub Games can also enjoy Renegade.

In October I sent you guys a PM asking what you thought the solution to our problem should be. This left the ball squarely in your court for you to make some demands so that we could form a plan together and move forward.

The problem is that those demands never came through, so as far as we're concerned we've had nothing but radio silence from RC and MPF on the matter since October. 

As for the block, part of IA's inherent design is that it can be joined from the IA client on the W3D Hub Launcher or the Renegade client, allowing for a wider potential player base. Here are my notes from the PM I sent you on the matter:

On 10/17/2018 at 10:36 PM, OWA said:

Here are some quick facts about the IA build:

• On release, IA's build could connect to Renegade servers, which was an oversight on our part. The build we are now hosting cannot connect to Renegade servers, which is why we don't list them.
• Because IA is predominantly downloaded via TTFS, it means that a standard Renegade client running 4.6 can connect to it and play, meaning that players can enjoy IA without downloading the W3D Launcher.

So your problem here is that IA can be connected to via both the W3D Hub Launcher and via Renegade 4.6 running RenList and that doesn't seem fair. The solution to this is to put Renegade on our launcher, but this will take time because we want our service to stay as legal as we can make it.

So, with that in mind, we will be trying our best to add Renegade to our launcher, but you've got to understand that this does take time.

As for covering our asses legally, this is incredibly hard to do when there is a third-party tool out there (mixcheck) that is able to convert heavily modded Renegade builds into full Renegade builds by re-downloading the base mix files and repairing them. Did you know that you can get a fully working copy of Renegade from the freely available Renegade multiplayer demo if you install Scripts 4.6 on top of it and run mixcheck? Food for thought.

4 hours ago, shaitan said:

Do not think for one second that I do not know about some chats that were had between you guys and dblaney that required Apex to be listed on both platforms as a prerequisite(and only it joinable/visible from both).

dblaney asked us how to get his game on the launcher and we helped him. That was about it. There were no talks about any other platforms (RenList) that Apex would be hosted on, because that was really dblaney and Kaskin's decision to make.

4 hours ago, shaitan said:

I was upfront with you guys, I gave you 2 aces-up-my-sleeve that I could've easily used against you to shut that thing down asap. I waited, and got my guys to not flip out. I didn't make it that public beyond (I think) 2 shoutbox posts refuting 2 ignorant people running their mouths. I gave you guys factual proof of what that modded server-dipping-from-renegade-and-only-allowed-on-w3d-platform was doing to us, when it started, how many players it had prior to its W3d Launcher start date, and how no matter what: the two remaining renegade servers could not compete with a launcher from an entirely different community getting that startup player boost that we cannot compete with(unless we advertise outside of Renegade, which I refuse to do, just to watch them filter into there). You were right about one thing OWA: EA does not give two shits about old games, I tried repeatedly to get them to make Renegade freeware.

As I mentioned in my earlier comment, our long-term goal is to include Renegade on the launcher in a way that is legal. I'd like to know what we can do to satisfy you and the others in the meantime whilst we work on this solution.

No offence, but I see a lot of soapboxing and shouting about how we've done a bad thing, but not a lot of ideas or solutions coming from you guys to help us all fix the problem and get us past this. Tell us clearly what you want and we can discuss it.

As it turns out I was wrong. EA does give a shit about old games. I sent them a tip last year about a website called Abandonia that was hosting full isos of RA2, Renegade and Generals. When I went to check back late last year, I had seen that they had been removed, which suggests to me that they got a C&D sent to them. I wouldn't underestimate EA legal, since all it takes is one tip-off for the lawyers to come running.

4 hours ago, shaitan said:

I didn't know about the block until I got home that night, but that isn't me putting blame on someone else. I agreed with it, but was also telling my guys and MPF to wait and not block each time it was brought up. That was hope, even though I knew you wouldn't care about the rest of the community(if you had, none of this would have happened). You didn't care about XP users for scripts 5.0(most from outside of Europe/USA) until I showed you proof that they still exist.

I'm not really concerned who blocked the server really. I just want to work towards a solution to this problem instead of bickering about it.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the scripts there. Scripts 5.0 doesn't support Windows XP at all. If you meant to say 4.x the thread wasn't due to a lack of caring, but more of a curiosity surrounding what portion of the player base still made use of Windows XP. If you read the posts in that thread it's never once suggested that XP was to be dropped because of a lack of caring.

4 hours ago, shaitan said:

I know what the repercussions of all this could lead to, I told you I was prepared for those: 1.Do you remember what I said about MPF and Rencorner would merge to keep Renegade alive? That's in the works game server-wise, and if it comes to it it'll happen. That right there should tell you something, after our history, that we'll put aside any differences and trust one another(individuals and administrations). 2. Scripts builds, I know who started working on those. I also know if it came to it it'd take some time, but if we had to we'd get everyone to revert their scripts: it'd be done(just like how we got the majority to start using Renlist). I know developers throw fits, I've been dealing with that for 15 years in other games besides the ones on the Renegade engine.

You do what you like, but just know that my offer of a solution still stands. Here's another quote from that PM with my request for ideas.

On 10/17/2018 at 10:36 PM, OWA said:

If that's not good enough, then here are a few questions:

• Do you have any ideas that you think would fix this problem in the short term?
• How can we help you to promote your servers whilst we continue to make preparations for full Renegade Support? 
• What is your ideal outcome for this problem in the long term?

There's no need to threaten drastic measures if we can find something that suits all of us.

I just want to also take this opportunity to ask that you please refrain from venting these issues in public. We're all reasonable people here, so there's no need to call us out when what we all want can be achieved through PM. Let's find solutions, not more problems.

[shaitan]

We cannot fix a thing, that part was always on you guys. You enabled all of this, I did not nor how to. We have 2 developers left in Rencorner, one is Whitedragon, the other is Blacky. WD has been afk for the better part of a year(minimum), Blacky comes and goes. The only thing I could do was keep people from freaking out.

"I just want to also take this opportunity to ask that you please refrain from venting these issues in public." You posted calling us out, I would've gladly kept to myself as I have been.

[OWA]

12 minutes ago, shaitan said:

We cannot fix a thing, that part was always on you guys. You enabled all of this, I did not nor how to. We have 2 developers left in Rencorner, one is Whitedragon, the other is Blacky. WD has been afk for the better part of a year(minimum), Blacky comes and goes. The only thing I could do was keep people from freaking out.

"I just want to also take this opportunity to ask that you please refrain from venting these issues in public." You posted calling us out, I would've gladly kept to myself as I have been.

We can't fix anything if you don't tell us what you would like fixing.

We're working on getting Renegade on our launcher but it will take time. Is that enough for you or can we help in some other way? I ask again:

On 10/17/2018 at 10:36 PM, OWA said:

If that's not good enough, then here are a few questions:

• Do you have any ideas that you think would fix this problem in the short term?
• How can we help you to promote your servers whilst we continue to make preparations for full Renegade Support? 
• What is your ideal outcome for this problem in the long term?

Also, it wasn't my intention to call you guys out at all. I was merely explaining the IA stuff in response to Griever's post. The fact that you latched onto that in order to soapbox your issues with W3D Hub makes me want to think that you don't have any interest in fixing the relationships between the communities at all, but are just here to cause drama.

I don't want to believe that though. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I want to help you guys out, but you've got to tell me what you want, otherwise nothing will get fixed.