Dynamite Suggestions

[ganein14]

I don't think I'm the only one when it comes to complaining about how Dynamite in game is too powerful. I can't begin to count the number of times even a well grouped number of defenses fail to stop one single person from wearing them down by rushing them with a cheap tank and a cheap infantry unit with dynamite. There are even spots where it can be thrown and is impossible to disarm and is guaranteed to kill at least one or even two defenses. Is it possible to change the dynamite from a C4 deploying style to that of a beacon? That way they have to stand still and subject themselves to the defenses attacks and risk dying for nothing gained without the defenders having to constantly be alert and watch for such tactics? 

[Threve]

On 3/10/2019 at 6:51 PM, ganein14 said:

I don't think I'm the only one when it comes to complaining about how Dynamite in game is too powerful. I can't begin to count the number of times even a well grouped number of defenses fail to stop one single person from wearing them down by rushing them with a cheap tank and a cheap infantry unit with dynamite. There are even spots where it can be thrown and is impossible to disarm and is guaranteed to kill at least one or even two defenses. Is it possible to change the dynamite from a C4 deploying style to that of a beacon? That way they have to stand still and subject themselves to the defenses attacks and risk dying for nothing gained without the defenders having to constantly be alert and watch for such tactics? 

Bump and also +1

I like the idea of dynamite. It helps destroy mammoth 36 inch vehicles and is also fun to throw on vehicles every once and a while so I am not voting personally for it to be removed just like Ganein. However...

Dynamite currently in-game is or at least has been obnoxiously abused to the point where the tactic is to get a $500 Char and $700 Grizzly tank and suicide yourself at least 15 times to destroy every defense. We're talking a constant rush time after time after time. Normally it wouldn't be such a big deal but it's gotten to the point of annoyance.

 

1. You cannot proxie mine every defense and it wouldn't be worth it if you could. The grizzly tank would just take the damage anyways. At least with main structures you have to go into the mines as a char.

2. Every other player is battling or fighting in field, or buying vehicles/busy in base. No one can (or more appropriately will) watch every single defense to try and prevent constant suicide spam.

3. This dynamite suicide spam means that even if you kill someone 8 times for points. They will be awarded a shit ton of points for 1 successful defense kill. God forbid they are able to throw their dynamites on 2 objects.

4. As said earlier, because this is a thrown object. There are some points where you cannot disarm unlike a beacon (Because you cannot throw a beacon).

5. Dynamites are unannounced which is a good thing, it would get annoying.. but it goes to show that it's harder to notice should a suicide/dynamite combo go through.

6. During large games it comes to the point where 2 if not 3 people are doing this shit and it's impossible to stop because the player base cannot or will not stay in base waiting to fight back against this annoyance or they're (the player base) is busy fighting against others in the field. Long story short no one is going to drive back to base because a grizzly was spotted near a defense. By the time they get there it is usually to late anyways.

7. During small games it comes to a point where you have to forcefully camp your base to prevent the grizzly/dynamite combo from racking up points and getting any defense kill.

8. There is no motivation to keep a good K/D or any reward for not doing this. That means if you have 2 kills with 34 Deaths in-game, you can have the most points and win the game for your team simply by using the same suicide tactic over and over.

9. The destruction of every single defense solely from this tactic (which usually happens) means that the game is almost always lost to an Orca/Amphibious Tank Rush, a constant suicide rush into a building using dynamite, you name it.

10. The only way to halfheartedly prevent this is to get a 9K22 Tunguska ($2,800 btw) and kill the Grizzly Tank with your missiles. The reason I say the Tunguska is because the range allows you to not have to camp your base all day, turret and engine speed is fast enough, the missiles can kill the tank in one go and you also have the 30mm cannons to kill the Tank Commander with the dynamite. God forbid you miss and have to reload.

11. You can of course buy another (Nod or GDI) tank to try and take care of this issue but typically the Grizzly will outrun your tank or destroy it. Further infuriating gameplay because if you die or even kill the grizzly suicide combo they will just do it again 10/10 times.

 

I vote that this needs to be fixed somehow through the reduction of damage with dynamite. I still think that 2 should kill a mammoth 36 inch and as such a beacon planted dynamite would be useless (because you have to stand to plant the dynamite and the mammoth 36 inch would just kill you). Maybe make the dynamite less destructive against buildings but the same against vehicles. Limit it to 1 dynamite with a damage Nerf against buildings ONLY. Whatever you guys end up seeing fit.

[TemporaryName]

@Threveyou cant stop light armored grizzly before he reach the target? i dont get it. you have stanks, comanche etc. to catch him.
if he waste so much time and 1200$ x 10 for fail rush to kill only 1 tiny base defence you can hit their main buildings instead and eliminate his base defences in this time because standard method to destroy defences by (for example) tow stryker is much faster and less expensive. personally i dont see single reason to change anything in dynamite. previously 100$ tank crew had dynamite so it was op but now its fine imho.
btw. suicide rush with fast vehicle or 800$ orca and dynamite works only in few maps.

[ganein14]

You'd be surprised by how many maps this tactic can be viable in even the smallest of ways. There are even some places in maps (like Industrial Strength) where one can just toss dynamite on to the defenses, back off, call for !ammo and wait for it to blow before repeating. Besides, the grizzly is rather agile and has a very fast acceleration. Especially on maps where it can exploit tunnels. (Mt. Pass comes to mind for this). I'd say either turn it into some form of beacon without an announcement, or give it a firing delay of 1-2 seconds and a greatly reduced throwing range.

[TemporaryName]

imho this tactic is unefecctive. the only effective way is stank+dynamite but it works only in some maps+you risk they steal your stank wreck=stank+sneaky player=building dead.
on mt.pass you can use sapper to block tunel by hon. he can try by orca but mostly fail. on industrial strengh you can stop suicide orca rushes if you really want. dont forget he wastes much time for suicide rush and Nod steal grizzly wreck.
for me there is no problem, smart player always can find a way to destroy small base defences.

i have a feeling that some people want to ban every single successful method to win the game by building destruction. I always thought that "our main objective is to destroy the enemy base while still protecting our base from enemy attacks" not to let passive campers live long and prosper.

[ganein14]

1 hour ago, TemporaryName said:

i have a feeling that some people want to ban every single successful method to win the game by building destruction. I always thought that "our main objective is to destroy the enemy base while still protecting our base from enemy attacks" not to let passive campers live long and prosper.

This is one of two 'tactics' I'd want removed or nerfed if I may by honest. All of the other methods usually have you NOT wanting to die without at least doing some damage or a chance to get away.

[Kickmofo]

I'll try to be as straightforward as I can....fundamentally it's still Renegade. So all the normal tactics that you would use to counter an attack still works

Not to give away its counter because I use this as a tactic......simply camp and you can easily defend this strategy. Your frustration may because you or your team are willing or able to camp properly. Work as a team to combat it?

[ganein14]

Camping rarely gets a team a win, even if the attackers don't destroy much. Besides, you are the only one that uses that cheap 'tactic'. Even when the entire team camps, there's still times you slip through and take out a def even if we kill you and think you didn't through one, only to find out you did in fact throw one.

[Kickmofo]

Im sorry I am not the only one that uses it Roh, Baddog, Bullvipe, Kobra and I have even seen many mods use this tactic as well....I can go on if you like?

I slip through because I am relentless and you guys choose to not work as a team to stop me. Simply get 6 or 7 stanks and its game over to my one explosive...

[ganein14]

And that's my problem...either we HAVE to work together and ignore your team. Or we focus on your team and you can eventually sneak in and start taking down our main structures with little effort.

[Kickmofo]

Solved?

[ganein14]

No, its not solved. It shouldn't have to take so many players just to stop one person. The defenses should be able to handle themselves against one person rushing right at them without needing to worry about losing them.

[Kickmofo]

How does one player on GDI stop 10 Ezekial's from rushings??

[ganein14]

Aegis Shields and a bomber.

[Kickmofo]

Your shield will allow them safe passage into your base. You bombers won't work because you won't see them, see a simple counter.

I do agree some tanks (Prism) and characters (Nod sakura) require further balance but a player will always find a weakness or a strength and use that to their advantage. This happens in ALL games

[Threve]

1 hour ago, Kickmofo said:

Simply camp and you can easily defend this strategy.

Wow. I never thought about staying an hour and half inside my base to prevent this tactic every single map.

 

@TemporaryName

The problem isn't just the ability to kill these suicide rushes. Like I said the Tunguska can handle the situation easily.. It's about the whole entire game being based off having one person (typically me or I assume Ganein as well) constantly just patrolling and camping to prevent this for the whole entire match. God forbid two people do it at the same time. It no longer becomes tank on tank combat with special infantry units battling it out Nod vs. GDI...

It just becomes a camp fest to prevent a fast, hard to hit and ok armored tank from dropping off himself off and blowing up buildings time after time after time.

 

 

[Kickmofo]

3 minutes ago, Threve said:

Wow. I never thought about staying an hour and half inside my base to prevent this tactic every single map.

You don't have to its a choice you make? Polecat is a very good camper and counters it quite easily

Nod has the same character so why not employ the tactic yourself?

[Threve]

22 minutes ago, Kickmofo said:

You don't have to its a choice you make? Polecat is a very good camper and counters it quite easily

Nod has the same character so why not employ the tactic yourself?

Look i understand what you're saying. I really do. I mentioned even earlier that you can prevent this with the Tunguska. The problem is it forces you to camp. i'm going to be honest I really don't want to stay in my base solely for being on the lookout for a tank driving up and planting a bomb for an hour and 30 minutes almost every single match. It doesn't even feel rewarding killing someone who is suiciding on purpose over and over and over.

I do not find enjoyment in employing this tactic unless of course it's by chance that i am at the enemy base and am still alive. I like driving tanks, fighting against people in the field and attacking the enemy base. Just.. not over and over with dynamite till my K/D is 4 - 28 but I won the match for my team. It is very empty.

Everyone plays differently and I get that. There are some people that just cannot get enough camping and some that just love to harvest. But being forced to do something for the sake of not losing the game over and over is just beyond annoying. Yes there are some maps where it does not happen but for the majority of maps it's been a problem only elevated when there are little players or multiple players on the same team are doing this.

 

I want for anyone to honestly tell me the enjoyment of being forced to camp your base over and over against a fast, harder to hit tank again and again on someone suiciding themselves almost every map.

[Kickmofo]

I honestly don't want to stay in my base and camp but sometimes you have to. I enjoy it sometimes and other I don't but it's a conscious choice to do it or don't. The best form of defences is attack....try it, buddy!

Like I said there is a counter to all characters, tanks and attacks in ALL games. Its a choice you make as a player or team to choose and do something about or not...

I have said enough on this post but its always good to have a robust and open discussion

Take care and Ill explode you in game

[Testament]

I like having broken skilless explosives to match my lack of aiming. II especially enjoy how the TANK ACE is good at killing tanks by running at the enemy instead of actually supporting your own tank. The fanatics are especially good when you cant utilize the broken blackhand with the AK103 to insta head shot your enemies. I especially like stacking teams against eachother and taking advantage of other peoples good will to make teams unbalanced.

IA is a gas when you break the balance. Enjoy it!  (make sure to use the mobius and own the tunnels until nod breaks out the inevitable fanatic spam in some pathetic attempt to save face cuz they can't inf combat to save their lives) It's also totally fun to spam 500 dollar delta forces to break up that pesky game play of actually having to aim.

 

[Kaskins]

When Dynamite was created in IA is to take into consideration of blowing up very solid vehicle and also to clear obstacle such as barriers and fortifications.

However what I did not see is that player's use it to rush in to throw bombs around to demolition structure with ease.

To further make things worst is well timedc4, remote c4 and dynamite are not suppose to throw that far. In default renegade you barely able to throw 10 meters.

This came to affect when I added sticky grenade's in when it require some bump in the range. ( Do note the bump in its range is server side, I think when if your adjust thrown c4 range it affects all weapons that you throw. )

 

Yesterday, I was experimenting with beacon like Dynamite and a holding down to throw dynamite just like satchel charge. I am still comparing these two.

• Beacon like Dynamite only sticks to the ground, at least I haven't try to get it able to throw it.
• Throwing dynamite with a charge time require 3.2-3.7 ( still playing around with these value ) seconds to hold down to throw, but doing this long without indicator is hard to let the player know if holding down the fire button is being register or not.

For the next update. What I can do is to removed tank commander of having dynamite and replaced with 2 timed c4.

As for the Sapper I am still thinking about it - I can either replaced the dynamite all together to become satchel charged. Or reduce to 1 dynamite.

[F00ker]

The Sapper or Pioneer should be the only units carrying Dynamite period 

the really annoying thing to me is that nowadays anybody in a tank has a Tank Crew or Tank Commander , very very rarely do you see Combat Engineers or hotwire/techs in tanks 

this to me ruins a lot of gameplay in that when your tank was destroyed you hung around repairing freindly tanks now they just run at an enemy tank and try to throw dynamite on it

the other negative factor about tank crews in Tanks is that when they kill an enemy tank crew by a base defence they've usually no repair gun to defuse any dynamite on defences

 

I've personally spent full maps trying to counter Suicide rushes sometimes with success sometimes without and i can tell you it gets pretty damn boring 

[Cjx0r]

On 3/12/2019 at 3:23 PM, TemporaryName said:

@Threveyou cant stop light armored grizzly before he reach the target? i dont get it. you have stanks, comanche etc. to catch him.
if he waste so much time and 1200$ x 10 for fail rush to kill only 1 tiny base defence you can hit their main buildings instead and eliminate his base defences in this time because standard method to destroy defences by (for example) tow stryker is much faster and less expensive. personally i dont see single reason to change anything in dynamite. previously 100$ tank crew had dynamite so it was op but now its fine imho.
btw. suicide rush with fast vehicle or 800$ orca and dynamite works only in few maps.

ideal gameplay spending the entire match fending on this rush. You just can't fathom how often they do it in a row until they are successful. Sorry but my ideal fun game isn't sitting at base waiting to repel this single rush. 

[Cjx0r]

16 hours ago, Kickmofo said:

I honestly don't want to stay in my base and camp but sometimes you have to. I enjoy it sometimes and other I don't but it's a conscious choice to do it or don't. The best form of defences is attack....try it, buddy!

Like I said there is a counter to all characters, tanks and attacks in ALL games. Its a choice you make as a player or team to choose and do something about or not...

I have said enough on this post but its always good to have a robust and open discussion

Take care and Ill explode you in game

Literally shilling for skillless gameplay. This guy is the number 1 offender for this bullshit rush tactic, opinion discarded. 

[Cereal_Killer]

Mine buildings as if your playing Original Ren, without the added defenses. Then ignore the guy dynamiting your defenses.

Defenses are expendable. I suggest to use your time killing buildings, while your enemy wastes time killing your defenses. If you manage to get the War Factory or Bar, you have made it impossible for him to contnue this tactic, and he still has to get past your mines to do any real damage.

I do like the idea to create a delay while deploying. It would stop the hopping in and out at pillboxes, and make you bring some skill to plant without dying. ( The satchel delay would work for this in my opinion.)

 and it wouldn't bother me to see  dynamite count reduced to 1 on most chars, but probably isnt necessary if the delayed plant is implemented.

[Cjx0r]

2 hours ago, Cereal_Killer said:

Mine buildings as if your playing Original Ren, without the added defenses. Then ignore the guy dynamiting your defenses.

Defenses are expendable. I suggest to use your time killing buildings, while your enemy wastes time killing your defenses. If you manage to get the War Factory or Bar, you have made it impossible for him to contnue this tactic, and he still has to get past your mines to do any real damage.

I do like the idea to create a delay while deploying. It would stop the hopping in and out at pillboxes, and make you bring some skill to plant without dying. ( The satchel delay would work for this in my opinion.)

 and it wouldn't bother me to see  dynamite count reduced to 1 on most chars, but probably isnt necessary if the delayed plant is implemented.

Just try harder goy, gotcha.

[Raptor29aa]

Three second delay

Pro: makes it harder for an opponent to jump out throw one jump in and drive off/fly off

Con: makes it nearly impossible to attach one to a fast moving vehicle 

Con: attaching a dynamite to your tank’s husk to prevent capture before dying will be more difficult. 

Pro: base defenses won’t be demolished as easily

Con: it is the only effective suicide tactic for killing base defenses (beside cloaked goliath).

Pro: Helicopter + dynamite won’t kill your sams.

Pro: Pioneer and Sapper turrets won’t have to be replaced as often (saw one dynamite remove 3 turrets and severely damage the last one)

Con: lag negate/ mess up the throw

Pro: the dynamite keeps it damage

Con: Tank commander unit would lose popularity

Edit: Con: Tank commander is the only swimming unit with dynamite 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Raptor29aa
New info

[Threve]

15 hours ago, Cjx0r said:

Just try harder goy, gotcha.

+1 “Try harder” or “Just defend/camp” is not an answer. Also laying down mines for your building doesn’t matter to someone who (has now killed your defenses) is just going to suicide right into your building then throw a one hit kill dynamite. 

 

@Kaskins

I like the dynamite and think it’s awesome. However with changes in to how it is deployed you have to be careful with a couple things.

1. The beacon dynamite means you cannot throw it on a vehicle such as a Mammoth 36Inch

2. The timed throw dynamite would help midigate the problem some.. however I don’t think it would fully solve it. Worth testing out at least.

3. Limiting 1 dynamite would make it so couldn’t kill a Mammoth 36 in one go. (Which for me is what I think they should be used for primarily as well).

I know this doesn’t help solve the problem per say but I think it should be said. Using dynamite against the mammoth 36’s is important in this game I believe and should be preserved. Of course as you see it makes it more difficult to balance the dynamite then.

[Raptor29aa]

@Threve and @Kaskins

I believe option #2 of giving it a delay would be the best option. (Granted trying to wait 6 seconds to place 2 dynamite on a 36inch mammoth is very unlikely the tactic is still in the realm of possibility). 

I don’t want to alter gameplay too much by limiting the explosive potential of the tank commander.

I would just be happy that flying an orca at a defense/Sam site and being able to Dynamite it before dying won’t be an option. (I’ve seen someone exit their vehicle and throw a dynamite before or at the same time the obelisk hit them. I am still confused how that is possible.)

[Threve]

3 hours ago, Raptor29aa said:

@Threve and @Kaskins

I believe option #2 of giving it a delay would be the best option. (Granted trying to wait 6 seconds to place 2 dynamite on a 36inch mammoth is very unlikely the tactic is still in the realm of possibility). 

I don’t want to alter gameplay too much by limiting the explosive potential of the tank commander.

I would just be happy that flying an orca at a defense/Sam site and being able to Dynamite it before dying won’t be an option. (I’ve seen someone exit their vehicle and throw a dynamite before or at the same time the obelisk hit them. I am still confused how that is possible.)

Agreed. Like I said, I think we could try it out (A delay feature for throwing dynamite) and see how it goes. In real life you have to light a stick of dynamite anyways with a lighter for all those out there who care about realism.