remove unfair building restore

[TemporaryName]

@dblaney1ignores me so I have to create this topic.
"Building Restore" must be removed immediately because its extremely unfair.
IRC log from yesterday and bonus:

Quote

Loading level C&C_Hidden_Valley_E03.mix
1. Host: Building Restore: Caprigtx(Nod) Pickup Up a building Restore but there was nothing to restore.
2. Host: Building Restore: Threve(Nod)Picked Up a building Restore and the Power Plant was Restored
3. Host: Building Restore: SixStickBow(Nod)Picked Up a building Restore and the Tiberium Refinery was Restored
 4. Host: Building Restore: Zakoichi(Nod)Picked Up a building Restore and the Airstrip was Restored
[BUILDINGKILL]Threve destroyed the GDI Infantry Barracks (Ezekiel's Wheel Stealth Tank VS. Infantry Barracks)
[GENERAL] Current game on map C&C_Hidden_Valley_E03.mix has ended. Game was won by Nod by building destruction, lasted 01.02.30, and had a total of 33 player(s).

edit: few minutes ago we should lose without working agt but guess what

Quote

Host: Building Restore: Th3Shadow(GDI)Picked Up a building Restore and the Power Plant was Restored

as a result we almost won

edit2:
last lake garden, we are ready to die, then suddenly 

Quote

[22:01:31] 18<ikmapsbot18> 14Host: Building Restore: ofastauto(Nod)Picked Up a building Restore and the Power Plant was Restored

2 minutes later
 

Quote

Host: Building Restore: ROZPIERDALATOR(Nod)Picked Up a building Restore and the Tiberium Refinery was Restored
[22:03:30] 19<ikmapsbot> 04@ROZPIERDALATOR: chaha

we survived 

Edited September 1, 2019 by TemporaryName

[Threve]

On 8/17/2019 at 10:05 AM, TemporaryName said:

@dblaney1ignores me so I have to create this topic.
"Building Restore" must be removed immediately because its extremely unfair.
HIDDEN VALLEY.Mix

L O L

@Cjx0r @Voe @KTFF

First a little background for all the readers here. Every building was destroyed on Nod besides Hand of Nod and with 1 hour left, GDI continued to whore out Nod for all they were worth with Roz here personally fielding a Zippo Flame Tank (twice) along with multiple snipers coming from GDI. While it is true Nod picked up enough building restores to restore Nod base, it was in the order of Power Plant then Refinery which I would hardly call ground breaking for a game. In addition the Airfield Restore was picked up the last 10 minutes of the game. What all this means is that GDI failed to defeat a team with only a HON and Captured Helipad, for 20 minutes and then failed to repel back a team with HON,PP,REF for the whole match until 10 minutes. Also what is not mentioned is that in the last 15 minutes Voe got a spy crate and beacon nuked your war factory to which it also helped rally Nod in morale and points. 

In regards to building restores on this map and others... this match was the result of your team (GDI) kill whoring and complete loss of morale/coordination. I then joined and helped to rally Nod to not give up. IN ADDITION, your team had zero field control which allowed us to grab the building restores.. If you had been busy gathering a competent rush, holding field and not kill whoring with a Zippo then maybe the game would have turned out differently.

Building restores are in place for a event like this and I am glad because GDI deserved it for what they were doing. *If anything else, the points of another team should dictate an easy victory so long as they don’t resort to kill whoring and instead focus as a team.*

[Cjx0r]

Like a lot of things within IA administration, this is also a minimal "issue" (if you could even call it that) completely exaggerated to fit a particular agenda by a specific moderator. Pretty much everything Threve says is accurate, which is why I like to use him as a reference due to his sheer honesty.

To add to his post and give everyone else here the proper context about THAT SPECIFIC game. Here's the chat log of a PM I sent this mod immediately after he lost 1 building and left out of frustration. 

 

Quote

0 ### Log session started at Fri Aug 16 15:40:38 2019 ###
92 [15:40:39] Common channels for 
!n
ROZPIERDALATOR
 [xxx@
!h
Clk-302F273A.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl
]: 
!c
#RenCorner
, 
!c
#ikmaps
24 [15:40:44] <12,8
!nc
Cjx0r
> thats what u get for fucking around in a zippo
26 [15:40:54] <4,8
!nc
ROZPIERDALATOR
> nope
26 [15:41:06] <4,8
!nc
ROZPIERDALATOR
> it was because of building restore which shouldnt exist
26 [15:41:28] <4,8
!nc
ROZPIERDALATOR
> never seen bigger bs like this
26 [15:41:47] <4,8
!nc
ROZPIERDALATOR
> although i played in MPF 
26 [15:42:01] <4,8
!nc
ROZPIERDALATOR
> this was the greatest bull shit of all times
 

 

 

It really doesn't become more apparent than this response and his chat logs. Prove how what I and Threve said was wrong now, good luck.

 

>I killed almost your entire base

>I fucked around with a zippo for over 45 minutes AFTER THAT instead of finishing you off

>This arrogance literally cost me the game when Nod made a miraculous come back

 

Seriously ROZ, do NOT make me show everyone here how you killed those buildings. If you want to talk about "bullshit in this game that's exploiting mechanics for a cheap win", I have ALL DAY to call out your particular brand of bullshit. 

 

I'm really liking this tho

It looks really great when compared to this attached image. And for reference everyone else, yes posting 5 times really fast with crackers in your mouth is considered spamming and will get you muted and banned from the channel. Ask me how I know, or how I knew about the consistent internal bias within IA that this thread is a great testament to. Funny huh?

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Cjx0r

[TemporaryName]

what xD what a retarded logic🤣
first we killed your 3 buildings so we deserved for victory. its as simple as that.

[Threve]

13 minutes ago, TemporaryName said:

what xD what a retarded logic🤣
first we killed your 3 buildings so we deserved for victory. its as simple as that.

“Deserved” LoL. Get over yourself. 

Points will dictate what is deserved/earned at the end of the game.

The Nod team was rallied and focused. Which is why (coincidence..?) when the Nod Airstrip was repaired we (Me, CJ, Vor and Xfrozen) bought 4 Ezikels and steamrolled your guys base in a matter of 3 minutes. Amazing what teamwork can do.

[Cjx0r]

It should be said though that Threve did personally boost moral within Nod that was the soul reason we didn't quit to end the game. I let air die when Voe and I decided we should cut our loses and cycle the map, but Threve insisted we not give up and see the game thru to an ultimate win. It really was pretty heroic and the comradery in that map alone should have been a underdog success story rather than some mod bitching that we should make ANOTHER FUCKING REBALANCE  to sort their personal preference. 

[TemporaryName]

you constantly ignore the fact that first we destroyed your 3 buildings. we did it, not random power-up found in base/field by sbh, do you understand it?
you got 3 FREE buildings for nothing. its unfair. thats all. so simple.

[Voe]

When Nod lost every building but the HoN 10 minutes into the game, all the GDI had to do was to finish us off. CJ and I were on comms and we literally threw in the towel, manning the roof Oerlikons and waiting for the cycle. But instead of finishing, GDI bought a shit ton of snipers and zippos, getting started on the killwhore train with 1 hour 5 minutes of the map still remaining (!!!) at the point when Threve joined, only 1 or two GDI players still kept pushing in with Mammies/Disruptors, so we've donated Threve for a Commanche and ran EMP Grenade/Commanche combo for the next good 30 minutes, all while GDI was still attempting whoring with snipers and Zippos. The fact that we gathered those 3 building restores within that 1 hour (all of which spawn midway through the map) only shows how little the GDI tried to push and maintain map control.

[Cjx0r]

like the satchel charge i think everyone has to evaluate the following..

Why is "X" in the game to begin with??

Building restore is a powerup that's randomly spawned in various locations along with a list of other possibilities. We got LUCKY that the server RANDOMLY gave us a power up 3 times within 1 game. We could have just as easily got 3 turbo flamethrowers and no one would be here right now.

This server gets fucked when people complain about nonissues that they personally dislike. In order to designate this as an issue it, has to be evaluated how much impact this ACTUALLY has on REGULAR gameplay.

"This situation happens a few times a year." What?                                                                                                                               <<<< You are here

"This situation happens once per month." Is it really an issue?

"This situation happens once per day." Ok let's take a look at it, good find.

"This situation happens every 5 maps on average." Oh shit, ok hotfix the drop table and let's reevaluate the whole thing.

"This situation happens every map." Get rid of it

 

We don't need more change, we need less. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Cjx0r

[Cjx0r]

Imagine playing slots at a casino and the dude next to you hits triple 7s, then you, very upset it wasn't your machine, go to the manager and insist they lower the odds for everyone or remove the jackpot entirely. LOL

[Threve]

17 minutes ago, TemporaryName said:

you constantly ignore the fact that first we destroyed your 3 buildings. we did it, not random power-up found in base/field by sbh, do you understand it?
you got 3 FREE buildings for nothing. its unfair. thats all. so simple.

You constantly ignore the fact that if you destroyed all 3 buildings you should not have kill whored and instead finished off the last one. HON. Simple. 

You and your teams lack of field control lead us to pick up 3 building restores in the span of an hour. To make it even better 1 person would constantly come in with a Railgun Titan or mammy trying to win and it turned into a meat grinder because GDI had zero team work.

 

tell me, please tell me how Nod within 30 seconds of getting air field back can organize a 4 man ezikel rush and destroy your guys base. I’ll answer it for you, teamwork against a team that has quit.

[Cjx0r]

Just now, Threve said:

tell me, please tell me how Nod within 30 seconds of getting air field back can organize a 4 man ezikel rush and destroy your guys base. 

Dude don't forget, our foot in the door was the spy crate voe got and successfully nuked weapons with. That had more of an impact on turning the tides then any one of those power ups. 

[TemporaryName]

pathetic excuse to justify unfair power-up

[Thor]

Kill the enemy team quickly before they can get the restore ... you have the advantage... If the team wants to just sit and whore, let it be so and lose.

Building restores are OK as they are...  They are no different then a Con Yard rebuild process.

[TemporaryName]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

Building restores are OK as they are...  They are no different then a Con Yard rebuild process.

in CY you must pay for it. feel the difference 

[Cjx0r]

3 minutes ago, TemporaryName said:

pathetic excuse to justify unfair power-up

ok so we went from a unthought out and poorly constructed bant post disguised as an argument and now we're just resolving to baseless assertions. 

I guess ROZ is capitulating. 

[Thor]

6 minutes ago, TemporaryName said:

in CY you must pay for it. feel the difference 

(usually) Teamwork is needed to pay.  Teamwork is needed to kill enemy team.  Pick the battle.

[Voe]

12 minutes ago, TemporaryName said:

pathetic excuse to justify unfair power-up

I agree that it is unfair. It benefits the winning team as they generally have the map control. Imagine a situation where one side is winning by a margin of 1-2 buildings, and is constantly besieging the other. Even in a case of a break-out and a well coordinated counter which would destroy a building belonging to the currently winning, with their map control they have a chance to get it all back and bring the losers back to square one.

What happened in our match was the opposite - the losing team managed to outmaneuver the winning side so hard they not only wrested the map control, but also successfully defended, nuked and rushed their way to victory in the end.

[TemporaryName]

1 hour ago, Voe said:

I agree that it is unfair.

[Cjx0r]

56 minutes ago, TemporaryName said:

Any and all power ups are unfair. Good argument ROZ

[Threve]

2 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

Again ignoring every argument. I’d like you to tell me why building restore should be taken away after this match because of these points here (why you lost).

- Your team killed every building of Nods besides HON. So your team decided to kill whore with you yourself buying 2 Zippos..

- Your team after destroying the whole Nod base (besides HON) had the man power, money (GDI had silos) and vehicles to destroy Nod base but did not. I mean your team killed Nod PP, REF and Airfield so you obviously had the capacity to.

- The 1st building restore was the power plant.. then the ref (particularly irrelevant because Nod had no Harv and also did not have silos.) this continued until 10 minutes left in the match. In other words you guys (GDI) had 11 players and all the things to take down Nod but refused to work together. Having the PP and Ref back is what I would hardly call game winning or ground breaking. In fact if Nod had lost those buildings again during the 1 hour we were defending then your guys point lead would have annihilated us beyond hope. Furthermore a building restore would have went to that building again. It’s basically free points to a dominating winning team.

- Again, Xfrozen donated me for replacement Helicopters for my anti tank Comanche, Voe and Cj threw EMP grenades at the 1-2 vehicles that would actually attempt to hit Nod base. The rest of GDI was doing god knows what. Hell people on GDI were rushing orca fighters against a team that didn’t have an Airfield. A literal meat grinder for Nod to gain points.

- GDI having all their base then should have had field/map control. I mean you guys had the tiberian machines, the money, the infantry and the vehicles while Nod had... Basic infantry with a few special infantry on a mainly defence front. The map (hidden valley) is small enough that you had zero excuse for not having map control besides your team not following through. 

- Voe grabbed a spy crate and beacon’d your war factory.. You’re not gonna say anything about this? 

- You claim that it’s unfair that Nod won because of building restores when the irony is your team had a whole entire base and the Tiberium machines the whole game. The reason I say this is that after Nod got the Airfield back.. 4 Ezikels managed to hit GDI base and destroy the PP, REF, and the Barracks. If we could do all of that... why couldn’t your team do that to us? It’s not because of building restores, it’s because your team had zero coordination, map control and morale.

- You claim a stealth black hand grabbed the Building Restore and it’s unfair that that happens (presumably because SBH is invisible). But... you guys allowed a Spy to go upstairs in your War Factory so who really was at a loss here for not deploying Mobile Sensor Arrays or paying attention?

- While yes the Con Yard does focus a team to pay for a building, the Building Restore is available to both teams for free. I refuse to believe it’s nod fault for grabbing it first (*Cough* 3 Times) on a map you guys were dominating, a map you can see the whole field and shoot at it from almost any place and a map where you grabbed the Tiberium machines.Seriously Hidden Valley is one of the smallest non-unique maps on the server.. if not the smallest. (by unique I mean Urban Warfare an infantry only small map or Close Combat, a specifically designed small map)

- Nod also got a Orca Lift truck mid game which allowed my anti tank commache to refill, and repair in front of Nod Base. It should be noted a Comanche can fire 8 Missiles which can single handily take down an almost full health Mammoth Tank Railgun. In short, you guys kept feeding me tanks 1 at a time that then got Emp’d and I killed them.

This match was the result of better morale on Nod’s side, an Anti Tank Comanche piloted by me and EMP Grenade’d GDI Vehicles being sent in one at a time, Voe Beaconing GDI War Factory, GDI thinking they could kill whore Nod and donations from Nod going to crucial things such as helicopters or a last minute vehicle rush.

The best part about this is Nod would have won by points at the end anyways if we didn’t rush with vehicles because of GDI meat grinding 1-2 vehicles at a time instead of a focused rush like we did.

[TemporaryName]

^ and thats why i hate forums. simple topic: "remove unfair building restore"
 I think even monkey can agree its unfair in situation when whole team work really really hard to destroy enemy building and when finally they did it random n00b just finds a restore which spawn in base and all work was for nothing especially if they sacrifice much points to do it
but some people must produce endless offtop and trolling for fun just to be oposite to OP
@Threve

[Jeod]

There's a difference in making a balance issue thread out of frustration and making a balance issue thread with a cleared mind. Even in Westwood's C&C games if you punch your enemy until they don't have an MCV and then turtle/killwhore/whatever to rub in the wound, a crate could grant them a new MCV for free and suddenly there's a possibility for a comeback. You're receiving these "off-topic" replies because it was plain to see that this thread and prompt for change was created out of frustration not necessity. Threve led his post with "providing background", not to troll you but to show outside readers (like myself) the contextual motive behind the thread.

[Cjx0r]

2 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

^ and thats why i hate forums. simple topic: "remove unfair building restore"
 I think even monkey can agree its unfair in situation when whole team work really really hard to destroy enemy building and when finally they did it random n00b just finds a restore which spawn in base and all work was for nothing especially if they sacrifice much points to do it
but some people must produce endless offtop and trolling for fun just to be oposite to OP
@Threve

This level of projection...

[Threve]

To summarize this whole topic.

[TemporaryName]

well previously I said to my team that if you find third restore and revieve airstrip im gonna rq.
it was the only way out of this ridiculous situation

[Cjx0r]

23 minutes ago, TemporaryName said:

well previously I said to my team that if you find third restore and revieve airstrip im gonna rq.
it was the only way out of this ridiculous situation

Idk how you as a moderator can subject an entire team to unpleasant and minotnis gameplay then turn around and say "If they hit the jackpot, I'm leaving this shit show!"

You were running the shit show. The second you started losing (lost War Factory to a spy) you have the audacity to complain about it? Can you hear yourself right now>? Got news for your ROZ, we're not all here to give you a game of people to play with. This isn't about you or how much fun YOU can have dude...

[Voe]

I see this thread has been completely derailed from what i believe is an ongoing and significant problem. I took the liberty to hide some of the unneccesary personal attacks at the end, but I'll have it stay open in case anyone else would like to drop their five cents on the topic of building restores.

[Goliath35]

Building restore annoys me because it means the enemy has a chance of a comeback, which means the fight will be going on longer. 

Which is good because it means I can spend more time making love in my Mammoth Tank 36 Inch. 

[Threve]

9 minutes ago, Goliath35 said:

Building restore annoys me because it means the enemy has a chance of a comeback, which means the fight will be going on longer. 

Which is good because it means I can spend more time making love in my Mammoth Tank 36 Inch. 

While I see the argument there as well, it can also be said that sometimes *cough* mt.pass.. there will be a ref rush in the first 5 minutes and a Restore is needed to bring it back quickly. Or a really good game that doesn’t have to come to a close because one building died. I do see how it can be a double edge sword sometimes. I think the balance comes from both teams can pick them up