Over Powered Spy morale

[shoverno2]

GDI spy seems to be more like super OP rusher. Just little wile and ion canon beacon/nuke beacon has been planted. Ind just imagine if he gets explosives from create, omg, it's just horrible.

As for me, i think it need to be not nerfed, not even deleted from game, but reworked.

Firstly, this class prohibiting to pickup ANY EXPLOSIVES and weapon with high damage to building/defence.

Secondly, it need to be just like one random player from opposite team. Maybe there can be even device that will provide enemy nick to choose one.

Thirdly, spy have only skin and fake weapon(deal 0 damage). As true weapon he should have BETTER KNIFE(Really, knifes need buff, most importantly for spy to use silent kills) and silent pistol(it's likely to deal increased one shot damage to head).

As additional maybe it need some EMP C4 to power off buildings and tech for a little wile.

It's just my opinion. What is yours about it?

[Raptor29aa]

Just up the minelimit and problem solved. It takes 2 mines to kill the spy. The biggest issue is that some maps have a lot of doorways or roof ladders/entrances and not enough mines to protect them.

Example: Take the map Vile Facility mine limit last I checked was 80. The HON has 2 ladders 3 doors (12 mines). The power plant has 2 doors 2 ladders (8 mines). The Refinery has 2 doors, 1 ramp, 1 ladder (8 mines). Construction yard 3 doors, 2 ramps, 1 ladder, 1 window (14 mines) Com Center 2 doors 3 ladders (4 if counting tunnel ladder) (10/12 mines) Air Strip 3 doors, 1 ramp, 1 ladder (10 mines). Let’s total up the baseline for mines needed to protect against spies 62/64 mines that leaves 16 for offensive, field use. But I forgot to mention 2 mines won’t kill a Hotwire... so now add 30 more as in 2 more per door and total needed to secure the base is 92/94 so Nod is 14 mines short. (If no ladders are mined 80/82 is just enough for doors and ramps).

So yea the issue is not spies being strong or sneaky, but there not being enough mines to cover the base. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Raptor29aa
Clarity

[TemporaryName]

spy is fine, he is very easy to kill, slow and very expensieve, you can see on radar where he placed ION cannon beacon and deploy sensor if he found stealth suit

increase C4 proximity damage-problem solved (I suggested it to Kaskins long time ago)

[shoverno2]

8 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

spy is fine, he is very easy to kill, slow and very expensieve, you can see on radar where he placed ION cannon beacon and deploy sensor if he found stealth suit

increase C4 proximity damage-problem solved (I suggested it to Kaskins long time ago)

There big problem. Some maps enough big, have alots of sneak ways(And GDI have much more sneak ways then Nod 😑, two defence towers, etc. It's other story...). Even proxy mines can't resolve it. Spy can wear gizmo tools. It will take an eternity to set mines at every building.

And spy morale is not to blow up buildings, but to sabotage, kill infantry and EMP building/vehicles (or we can call it sabotage), maybe to try search for battle information.(In logical conclusion).

Almost every game when GDI loosing score there will be one just like: "Oh no, GDI loosing, it's the true honest and fair reason to build OP tanks and take OP spy with beacon."

P. S.

Mamonth tank railgun 120mm easy to conter with Nod dual melta bike, so he is ok (but harder to destroy if it has assistant/teamwork).

[shoverno2]

9 hours ago, Raptor29aa said:

So yea the issue is not spies being strong or sneaky, but there not being enough mines to cover the base. 

It take long time to mine it all, and also, maybe, it will cause performance down.

[dblaney1]

I think we need to just reduce the HP back to 100 like it used to be. That way a single mine kills them again. 

[der Papst]

20 hours ago, dblaney1 said:

I think we need to just reduce the HP back to 100 like it used to be. That way a single mine kills them again. 

That will for sure balance a unit ignored by all defenses. Nods stealth units are detected by defs built by pioneers while the spy isn't detected even by the obelisk, so wtf?? (which would be useless anyway since more and more maps have no Obelisk while GDI has multiple AGTs)

 

Mines are completely useless against spies with Beacon or TNT.

It's fine that beacons are announced to all, but if Nod is rushing (teamwork is not bad, right?) who disarms them? In large bases, 30 seconds might not be enough to even get to a beacon.

Additionally, beacons might be hidden in decorations, protected by the spy or mines,... While the spy itself has very low hp, he can bear every arm including PIC and just headshot everyone disarming beacons.

 

GDI is atm very OP - especially on no-fly-maps - and while SIDAM and EZEK have been removed very quickly, the spy is a problem not fixed since months.

 

The only way to balance spies is to forbid them carrying beacons and pick up anything

 

BTW: This is the 2nd/3rd Spy-is-OP-Thread now, why you didn't post this to the other one?

Edited January 7, 2020 by der Papst

[TemporaryName]

do you think its so easy to find Gizmo Repair Gun Mk.III/dynamite/strong demolition crate/demo C4? wasting 3500$+2000$ for beacon is also painfull.
you cant blame spy when nobody in Nod doesnt care about defence/proper mining. you have all tools to stop slow obvious spy (smaller than original Nod character with 100 health+50 armor only) before he even reach Nod base and when he is inside base sensor shows an arrow above him and radar shows beacon so I dont know what else you need to stop him.

Edited January 7, 2020 by TemporaryName

[shoverno2]

21 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

do you think its so easy to find Gizmo Repair Gun Mk.III/dynamite/strong demolition crate/demo C4? wasting 3500$+2000$ for beacon is also painfull.
you cant blame spy when nobody in Nod doesnt care about defence/proper mining. you have all tools to stop slow obvious spy (smaller than original Nod character with 100 health+50 armor only) before he even reach Nod base and when he is inside base sensor shows an arrow above him and radar shows beacon so I dont know what else you need to stop him.

It's like you agree with my variant of spy by telling me that current spy is not OP but even have low potential?))

P. S.

1) dynamite spy is horrible, but rare

2) gizmo not enough effective, there big chance that he will be killed.

3) End game giving alot credits, 5500 is almost nothing.

4)You can easily find beacon to save 2000 credits

5) 2800 spy is enough to rush, even picking simple solder best variant because it's common.

6)So, for example, GDI loosing alot(destroyed war factory and construction yard (if there was CY)). But thay have chance to turn battle backward by using OP invisible to defence spy(also stealth spy is another horrible variant). Then let's imagine that instead GDI loosing battle now Nod loosing battle. And now there's NOTHING TO DO, just walking around like Eric Andre: "I don't know what I doing here". Freaking unfair ((

[TemporaryName]

because it has low potential, thats why I never purchase spy. of course sometimes he can steal money and beacon building if Nod is completely dumb but its wasting time mostly.
3. only on some maps with upgrades
6. its fair, you can deploy sensor to reveal stealth spy (visible as well)
the only unfair thing is building restore

[shoverno2]

13 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

the only unfair thing is building restore

You know, sometimes building is easy to ruin, to rush. Even if it mined or even gizmo dude inside.

So, building restore is just addictional credits to ern)))

One match i playing for Nod with one cool dude. We destroyed GDI barracks 3 time in a row. Then thay just placed alots(almost limit) proxy mines, so many raw damage. Even Mendoza (or bike XD) can't pass through. But we erned alots credits(dunno where GDI taked credits to restore) so we just make something like apocalypse. Beacons was everywhere except Nod base at the end game.

But to be seriously, building restore (paid or free) is like second chance to continue. Just imagine you playing for GDI without barracks, war factory, Tiberium factory and defences. Without building restore you can't even be close to opposite team score. There only three variant to gain chance of victory.

1)create must give you something OP(like spy). But it too rare, there no hope.

2)There should be moderator to force next map.

3) or....

Yea ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

BUILDING RESTORE!)))))

That's why it still available.

Looks like OP, but still needful to continue match morale.

Edited January 9, 2020 by shoverno2

[Threve]

22 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

because it has low potential

Ironically, for the good and keen player the spy has alot of potential. 

The spy can see what nod is doing from a vantage point, place a basically undisarmable beacon in HON top assuming you're able to get there and

If you're vetted up high enough you can place a beacon, call in support, throw fake timed C4 on the beacon to help buy you some time and right before you die use !char to buy even more time. It's more difficult the more players there are, however even in high player games the potential to destroy a building if you're very careful is high. Hell you can even go inside the CY and kill everyone inside without retaliation, clearing the way for your team to sneak in and C4 it.

 

The spy has also had its armor taken away recently. @ everyone here

[shoverno2]

14 hours ago, Threve said:

The spy has also had its armor taken away recently. @ everyone here

That's fine)

Maybe set mines takes moderate scale of time, but still it's possible to make spy unable to enter buildings.

Still there question, why Nod spy was deleted, but GDI spy still available? Why Nod doesn't have anything really conterpart spy? Something like high price anti infantry inquisition))

It's like Nod fraction doesn't smart enough to imagine something against GDI spy.

[Threve]

8 hours ago, shoverno2 said:

That's fine)

Maybe set mines takes moderate scale of time, but still it's possible to make spy unable to enter buildings.

Still there question, why Nod spy was deleted, but GDI spy still available? Why Nod doesn't have anything really conterpart spy? Something like high price anti infantry inquisition))

It's like Nod fraction doesn't smart enough to imagine something against GDI spy.

Nod has SBH and stealth tanks along with stealth helicopters

[shoverno2]

14 hours ago, Threve said:

Nod has SBH and stealth tanks along with stealth helicopters

It's mean that Nod tactics is ambush also.

I know only few maps where stealth will help at rush like spy. Many defences can't see stealthed units or until stealthed radius of spotting reduced.

Vehicle stealth helpful only at ambushing, except those maps where it's easy to ride to the GDI base with stealth tank.

Also sapper turrets can't spot stealth. But it's still impossible to plant on them C4 without be spotted.

[notDMB]

The problem with Spy is mines don't counter him at planting Beacons. They can stop him from stealing all of a team's money but they don't stop him from planting at all. I see it happen on Mt. Bog almost every game because there are two reliable tunnels that are often ignored due to how out of the way they are. The Spy can reliable nuke the PP or HoN on that map. 

Nod's most OP wombo combo requires two players and requires you to destroy most of GDI's AA. GDI can go Spy + Beacon (4800). Nod needs a Stealth Comanche (2500) Mendoza Firesuit (1000) and a Tank Commander (1300) or Technician (400). Technician can deploy Proximities to guard the doors when GDI comes in and repair Mendoza facetanking the mines. It's really cancerous with Tech because they can also !ammo to get more proxies. This is really doubly cancerous on maps without air (the calling in ammo thing) since defenses won't shoot down the Chinook. Actually, side rant here, can proximity mines auto disappear when placed within the confines of any enemy base? 

[Threve]

1 hour ago, notDMB said:

The problem with Spy is mines don't counter him at planting Beacons. They can stop him from stealing all of a team's money but they don't stop him from planting at all. I see it happen on Mt. Bog almost every game because there are two reliable tunnels that are often ignored due to how out of the way they are. The Spy can reliable nuke the PP or HoN on that map. 

Nod's most OP wombo combo requires two players and requires you to destroy most of GDI's AA. GDI can go Spy + Beacon (4800). Nod needs a Stealth Comanche (2500) Mendoza Firesuit (1000) and a Tank Commander (1300) or Technician (400). Technician can deploy Proximities to guard the doors when GDI comes in and repair Mendoza facetanking the mines. It's really cancerous with Tech because they can also !ammo to get more proxies. This is really doubly cancerous on maps without air (the calling in ammo thing) since defenses won't shoot down the Chinook. Actually, side rant here, can proximity mines auto disappear when placed within the confines of any enemy base? 

Proxie mines will stay in place untill disarmed or activated no matter what. Even if the player who placed them leaves.

[Kickmofo]

The only thing I would change is that they cannot pick up a stealth suit or be stealth

So easy to spot and kill and just so you know I hate them but like many other tanks and characters has its purpose 

[Raptor29aa]

Just an idea, the super spy (from the crate) is targeted by defenses when uncloaked.

why can’t the spy be targeted by defenses if he shoots or plants a flare outside a building?

[notDMB]

20 hours ago, Threve said:

Proxie mines will stay in place untill disarmed or activated no matter what. Even if the player who placed them leaves.

Yeah I know. I wasn't asking if they would disappear, I was asking if they COULD be made to disappear. Mining the enemy base is just evil.