Killwhoring Discussion - Split from TSR Blog

[OWA]

Well I was replying to when they said that the Disk Thrower was bad at anti-vehicle in general.

The Disk Thrower isn't too bad, but he can't be too great either because he's a low tier unit that costs 200 credits. Giving GDI a higher tier anti-vehicle guy will help them compensate for the fact that Nod have both the Kerubim/Confessor and Rocket Soldier as dedicated anti-armour solutions.

 

If kill-whoring can be achieved, then your game is badly designed.

If kill-whoring occurs, it is the players who are at fault for taking advantage of a situation within the game. The game is not at fault for allowing the situation to occur, because in normal gameplay the match should end rather quickly after the point at which kill-whoring can occur is reached.

 

If excessive killwhoring occurs then it is the game's fault for enabling it.

 

The X-O Powersuit was not a Tiberian Dawn unit, it was a teaser within Tiberian Dawn for the game that would eventually become Tiberian Sun. C&C 3 was not created by Westwood, so you can't relate the two units as though they were planned together.

They weren't planned together, but that doesn't stop them being part of the same universe and canon. C&C Renegade is also canon, meaning that the Mobius suit is also canon. The Enforcer is a bridge between that and the Zone Trooper from a lore perspective.

 

Communities shouldn't have to modify their games to compensate for the few players who take advantage of a situation for either laughs or a higher score. They should moderate their games so that players who do kill-whore are unable to play the game at all. Actions have consequences, and they need to be made aware of that fact.

So why not eliminate killwhoring and make the game better? It seems like a no brainer alternative to having people sitting around watching out for killwhoring. What you're basically saying is that you want the moderators to make up for the fact that the game has obvious flaws, yet you wouldn't be willing to do anything to eliminate these flaws.

[Bfranx]

The Disk Thrower isn't too bad, but he can't be too great either because he's a low tier unit that costs 200 credits. Giving GDI a higher tier anti-vehicle guy will help them compensate for the fact that Nod have both the Kerubim/Confessor and Rocket Soldier as dedicated anti-armour solutions.

Well he should be made to be about as good as the Rocket Soldier if we're going by tiers.

 

If excessive killwhoring occurs then it is the game's fault for enabling it.

Where do you draw the line at "excessive?"

 

They weren't planned together, but that doesn't stop them being part of the same universe and canon. C&C Renegade is also canon, meaning that the Mobius suit is also canon. The Enforcer is a bridge between that and the Zone Trooper from a lore perspective.

If you want to bridge the lore then go ahead. I can't really stop you, I can only voice my disapproval.

 

So why not eliminate killwhoring and make the game better? It seems like a no brainer alternative to having people sitting around watching out for killwhoring. What you're basically saying is that you want the moderators to make up for the fact that the game has obvious flaws, yet you wouldn't be willing to do anything to eliminate these flaws.

Because "eliminating" it involves shifting the focus of the game. Why not simply remove the people who are of a low enough character to kill-whore from the community entirely? It will clean up both the game and the forums, which is a win-win in my book.

[Shnappz]

 

The Disk Thrower isn't too bad, but he can't be too great either because he's a low tier unit that costs 200 credits. Giving GDI a higher tier anti-vehicle guy will help them compensate for the fact that Nod have both the Kerubim/Confessor and Rocket Soldier as dedicated anti-armour solutions.

Well he should be made to be about as good as the Rocket Soldier if we're going by tiers.

 

If excessive killwhoring occurs then it is the game's fault for enabling it.

Where do you draw the line at "excessive?"

 

They weren't planned together, but that doesn't stop them being part of the same universe and canon. C&C Renegade is also canon, meaning that the Mobius suit is also canon. The Enforcer is a bridge between that and the Zone Trooper from a lore perspective.

If you want to bridge the lore then go ahead. I can't really stop you, I can only voice my disapproval.

 

So why not eliminate killwhoring and make the game better? It seems like a no brainer alternative to having people sitting around watching out for killwhoring. What you're basically saying is that you want the moderators to make up for the fact that the game has obvious flaws, yet you wouldn't be willing to do anything to eliminate these flaws.

Because "eliminating" it involves shifting the focus of the game. Why not simply remove the people who are of a low enough character to kill-whore from the community entirely? It will clean up both the game and the forums, which is a win-win in my book.

 

 

 

Can't agree with your last point there... it's a little fascist and dictatorial... it would be much better to have a more balanced game

[VERTi60]

Because "eliminating" it involves shifting the focus of the game. Why not simply remove the people who are of a low enough character to kill-whore from the community entirely? It will clean up both the game and the forums, which is a win-win in my book.

 

 

Being an admin and/or mod for multiple games, I can say out clearly from experience that doing so will usually cause more problems in the end, ESPECIALLY in smaller game communities where everyone knows each other pretty much (aka harder to hide moderation actions from public). If you try doing this, other people will start doing it. If you have one person doing it - it may be ok at first but eventually if the game's flaw continues, you'll have eventually more people doing it and then moderation becomes a two edged sword. People will either start hating the enforcement or the game's bad design one way or another and in the end community/game will suffer.

 

It's good to have things sorted out by balancing and moderating excessive abuse of game flaws only which cannot be fixed atm or is getting fixed in the future.

[OWA]

Well he should be made to be about as good as the Rocket Soldier if we're going by tiers.

I've been lobbying for this for a while now.

 

Where do you draw the line at "excessive?"

When it is seen to be a legitimate problem.

 

Because "eliminating" it involves shifting the focus of the game. Why not simply remove the people who are of a low enough character to kill-whore from the community entirely? It will clean up both the game and the forums, which is a win-win in my book.

You don't have to shift the focus of the game to counter killwhoring. Extra game mechanics can be put in place to make sure that killwhoring doesn't happen. I'd be incline to agree with VERTi60 and Shnappz's sentiments on removing people because they take advantage of the flaws in the game design to exert an advantage. Obviously action is taken if it's excessive, but measures are being taken to alter the game so that these flaws aren't so exploitable.

[Bfranx]

 

Well he should be made to be about as good as the Rocket Soldier if we're going by tiers.

I've been lobbying for this for a while now.

 

Where do you draw the line at "excessive?"

When it is seen to be a legitimate problem.

 

Because "eliminating" it involves shifting the focus of the game. Why not simply remove the people who are of a low enough character to kill-whore from the community entirely? It will clean up both the game and the forums, which is a win-win in my book.

You don't have to shift the focus of the game to counter killwhoring. Extra game mechanics can be put in place to make sure that killwhoring doesn't happen. I'd be incline to agree with VERTi60 and Shnappz's sentiments on removing people because they take advantage of the flaws in the game design to exert an advantage. Obviously action is taken if it's excessive, but measures are being taken to alter the game so that these flaws aren't so exploitable.

 

It requires shifting the focus of the game because kill-whoring is nearly exclusive to C&C mode. No other game really has the same mechanics that can end in the same way. Kill-whoring isn't even really an issue at this point, as it was only a few guys doing it and they're gone now (thanks to moderators). If kill-whoring were really this unbelievably widespread epidemic that ruins the game for everyone then I would be more inclined to alter the game's mechanics. But as it stands it's only a minor issue because barely anyone is a part of it.

 

Like you said, it's excessive when it's a legitimate problem. And it really isn't anymore.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Bfranx

[OWA]

It requires shifting the focus of the game because kill-whoring is nearly exclusive to C&C mode. No other game really has the same mechanics that can end in the same way. Kill-whoring isn't even really an issue at this point, as it was only a few guys doing it and they're gone now (thanks to moderators). If kill-whoring were really this unbelievably widespread epidemic that ruins the game for everyone then I would be more inclined to alter the game's mechanics. But as it stands it's only a minor issue because barely anyone is a part of it.

Please elaborate on what you think needs to be changed to stop kill-whoring from happening in this game. We may be coming from completely different places here on how much exactly needs to be changed to eliminate it. What do you mean when you say "shifting the focus of the game"? I just want to be sure that we've got the same idea of what we both mean here.

[Bfranx]

 

It requires shifting the focus of the game because kill-whoring is nearly exclusive to C&C mode. No other game really has the same mechanics that can end in the same way. Kill-whoring isn't even really an issue at this point, as it was only a few guys doing it and they're gone now (thanks to moderators). If kill-whoring were really this unbelievably widespread epidemic that ruins the game for everyone then I would be more inclined to alter the game's mechanics. But as it stands it's only a minor issue because barely anyone is a part of it.

Please elaborate on what you think needs to be changed to stop kill-whoring from happening in this game. We may be coming from completely different places here on how much exactly needs to be changed to eliminate it. What do you mean when you say "shifting the focus of the game"? I just want to be sure that we've got the same idea of what we both mean here.

 

Well it's shifting the focus because the game is normally meant to begin with infantry and work upward to vehicles.

 

If infantry and vehicles are both viable late in the game, then either one could be marked as being unimportant.

[Einstein]

It requires shifting the focus of the game because kill-whoring is nearly exclusive to C&C mode. No other game really has the same mechanics that can end in the same way. Kill-whoring isn't even really an issue at this point, as it was only a few guys doing it and they're gone now (thanks to moderators). If kill-whoring were really this unbelievably widespread epidemic that ruins the game for everyone then I would be more inclined to alter the game's mechanics. But as it stands it's only a minor issue because barely anyone is a part of it.

 

Like you said, it's excessive when it's a legitimate problem. And it really isn't anymore.

 

I was gonna stay out of this...but I feel that this is like saying the gaping hole in your roof doesn't matter at all and isn't really broken because its the dry season. If we have the ability to perform preventative maintenance, why not do it? A problem is defined by what is actually broken, not what gets commonly abused. If I know about a bug and I'm the only one that knows about it and I use it often yet never report it and never get caught and nobody else knows about it or uses it, is it wrong? Should it be fixed? Absolutely. This is why we need testers. It is their job to find the possible points of abuse so that the devs can make a stable and fair game and also so that the moderation staff don't have as much to do. Otherwise we would have to keep a book on all the abuse-able bugs in play and watch out for all of them. It is the job of the moderators to keep the gameplay fair. However, the devs also have a responsibility to make exploits less possible. Lets not take away from that. Over-moderation never ends well and is not a good solution. And with those who would abuse bugs, it causes drama. Fixing the original hole prevents all that jazz.

 

Also, this is pretty far from the original topic....

[Bfranx]

 

It requires shifting the focus of the game because kill-whoring is nearly exclusive to C&C mode. No other game really has the same mechanics that can end in the same way. Kill-whoring isn't even really an issue at this point, as it was only a few guys doing it and they're gone now (thanks to moderators). If kill-whoring were really this unbelievably widespread epidemic that ruins the game for everyone then I would be more inclined to alter the game's mechanics. But as it stands it's only a minor issue because barely anyone is a part of it.

 

Like you said, it's excessive when it's a legitimate problem. And it really isn't anymore.

I was gonna stay out of this...but I feel that this is like saying the gaping hole in your roof doesn't matter at all and isn't really broken because its the dry season. If we have the ability to perform preventative maintenance, why not do it? A problem is defined by what is actually broken, not what gets commonly abused. If I know about a bug and I'm the only one that knows about it and I use it often yet never report it and never get caught and nobody else knows about it or uses it, is it wrong? Should it be fixed? Absolutely. This is why we need testers. It is their job to find the possible points of abuse so that the devs can make a stable and fair game and also so that the moderation staff don't have as much to do. Otherwise we would have to keep a book on all the abuse-able bugs in play and watch out for all of them. It is the job of the moderators to keep the gameplay fair. However, the devs also have a responsibility to make exploits less possible. Lets not take away from that. Over-moderation never ends well and is not a good solution. And with those who would abuse bugs, it causes drama. Fixing the original hole prevents all that jazz.

 

Also, this is pretty far from the original topic....

 

Renegade has a fairly decent balance of low, mid, and long-range units, and kill-whoring is still a problem.

 

Adding a new unit isn't really going to fix the hole, it's more like putting a tarp over it. If you want to completely remove this "problem," you'll have to rework the entire mechanics of C&C mode.

 

Or, you could avoid all of that mess and simply remove the people that take advantage of the exploit. Which, given the size of the community, won't be very hard.

 

And yeah, I agree we've gone pretty far off-topic.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Bfranx

[OWA]

Well it's shifting the focus because the game is normally meant to begin with infantry and work upward to vehicles.

Infantry are still relevant in the lategame. For example, if a team loses their War Factory but still has an APC, infantry become pretty deadly. Their ability to attack structures from the inside makes them pretty powerful regardless of what stage the game is in. So if a team loses it's war factory, how do you propose that they make a comeback from that, if infantry aren't supposed to be as good as vehicles?

[TeamWolf]

Bfranx, your entire argument seems to revolve around the match ending the moment you lose your War Factory. That's incredibly bad game design.

[Jerad2142]

Renegade has a fairly decent balance of low, mid, and long-range units, and kill-whoring is still a problem.

 

Adding a new unit isn't really going to fix the hole, it's more like putting a tarp over it. If you want to completely remove this "problem," you'll have to rework the entire mechanics of C&C mode.

 

Or, you could avoid all of that mess and simply remove the people that take advantage of the exploit. Which, given the size of the community, won't be very hard.

 

And yeah, I agree we've gone pretty far off-topic.

This is generally a bad idea especially in already small communities, it has a tendency of causing a chain reaction of people leaving (you pop one member off that was kill whoring, but then it turns out he was a friend of another guy, so that guy leave, and then another guy thinks the rounds are too small now, so he leaves, etc.).

 

 

 

PS: Have any pictures of the light tower? I thought I saw a picture of it in one of the threads?

[Bfranx]

 

Well it's shifting the focus because the game is normally meant to begin with infantry and work upward to vehicles.

Infantry are still relevant in the lategame. For example, if a team loses their War Factory but still has an APC, infantry become pretty deadly. Their ability to attack structures from the inside makes them pretty powerful regardless of what stage the game is in. So if a team loses it's war factory, how do you propose that they make a comeback from that, if infantry aren't supposed to be as good as vehicles?

 

They aren't.

 

Bfranx, your entire argument seems to revolve around the match ending the moment you lose your War Factory. That's incredibly bad game design.

Tell that to the people who made C&C mode. Because that's how it works.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Bfranx

[Killing_You]

Renegade had a vast array of infantry for this exact same purpose: to make them relevant after the War Factory gets destroyed. Granted, Renegade went a little too hogwild with this, but still. Having late game infantry options has proven time and time again to be superior to just focusing on vehicles until the War Factory goes down and calling it game there.

[Bfranx]

Renegade had a vast array of infantry for this exact same purpose: to make them relevant after the War Factory gets destroyed. Granted, Renegade went a little too hogwild with this, but still. Having late game infantry options has proven time and time again to be superior to just focusing on vehicles until the War Factory goes down and calling it game there.

But even with all of the various infantry available in the game, kill-whoring is still a possibility.

[Garrus09]

 

 

Well it's shifting the focus because the game is normally meant to begin with infantry and work upward to vehicles.

Infantry are still relevant in the lategame. For example, if a team loses their War Factory but still has an APC, infantry become pretty deadly. Their ability to attack structures from the inside makes them pretty powerful regardless of what stage the game is in. So if a team loses it's war factory, how do you propose that they make a comeback from that, if infantry aren't supposed to be as good as vehicles?

 

They aren't.

 

Bfranx, your entire argument seems to revolve around the match ending the moment you lose your War Factory. That's incredibly bad game design.

Tell that to the people who made C&C mode. Because that's how it works.

 

Infantry is always relevant for Nod and in quite a few cases GDI.

 

Losing 1 structure should never mean game over. It should punish the team by making the game more difficult for them. Not make it impossible.

 

Renegade had a vast array of infantry for this exact same purpose: to make them relevant after the War Factory gets destroyed. Granted, Renegade went a little too hogwild with this, but still. Having late game infantry options has proven time and time again to be superior to just focusing on vehicles until the War Factory goes down and calling it game there.

But even with all of the various infantry available in the game, kill-whoring is still a possibility.

 

Renegade hardly has any kill-whoring. Reborn hardly has any kill-whoring. Not because of players not choosing to but because of what the teams offer when structures are down.

[Bfranx]

 

 

 

Well it's shifting the focus because the game is normally meant to begin with infantry and work upward to vehicles.

Infantry are still relevant in the lategame. For example, if a team loses their War Factory but still has an APC, infantry become pretty deadly. Their ability to attack structures from the inside makes them pretty powerful regardless of what stage the game is in. So if a team loses it's war factory, how do you propose that they make a comeback from that, if infantry aren't supposed to be as good as vehicles?

 

They aren't.

 

Bfranx, your entire argument seems to revolve around the match ending the moment you lose your War Factory. That's incredibly bad game design.

Tell that to the people who made C&C mode. Because that's how it works.

 

Infantry is always relevant for Nod and in quite a few cases GDI.

 

Losing 1 structure should never mean game over. It should punish the team by making the game more difficult for them. Not make it impossible.

 

Renegade had a vast array of infantry for this exact same purpose: to make them relevant after the War Factory gets destroyed. Granted, Renegade went a little too hogwild with this, but still. Having late game infantry options has proven time and time again to be superior to just focusing on vehicles until the War Factory goes down and calling it game there.

But even with all of the various infantry available in the game, kill-whoring is still a possibility.

 

Renegade hardly has any kill-whoring. Reborn hardly has any kill-whoring. Not because of players not choosing to but because of what the teams offer when structures are down.

 

Infantry are absolutely relevant, they're just not as important as vehicles.

 

I know that losing a structure shouldn't mean game over, but in this situation it does. I'm not advocating for it, I'm just trying to point out that it's an unfortunate consequence of the game's mechanics.

 

With Renegade, that depends on what qualifies as "hardly any." With Reborn I agree, but you can't say that it's because of the infantry choices because everyone who did kill-whore in the past is gone now.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Bfranx

[Garrus09]

 

 

 

 

Well it's shifting the focus because the game is normally meant to begin with infantry and work upward to vehicles.

Infantry are still relevant in the lategame. For example, if a team loses their War Factory but still has an APC, infantry become pretty deadly. Their ability to attack structures from the inside makes them pretty powerful regardless of what stage the game is in. So if a team loses it's war factory, how do you propose that they make a comeback from that, if infantry aren't supposed to be as good as vehicles?

 

They aren't.

 

Bfranx, your entire argument seems to revolve around the match ending the moment you lose your War Factory. That's incredibly bad game design.

Tell that to the people who made C&C mode. Because that's how it works.

 

Infantry is always relevant for Nod and in quite a few cases GDI.

 

Losing 1 structure should never mean game over. It should punish the team by making the game more difficult for them. Not make it impossible.

 

Renegade had a vast array of infantry for this exact same purpose: to make them relevant after the War Factory gets destroyed. Granted, Renegade went a little too hogwild with this, but still. Having late game infantry options has proven time and time again to be superior to just focusing on vehicles until the War Factory goes down and calling it game there.

But even with all of the various infantry available in the game, kill-whoring is still a possibility.

 

Renegade hardly has any kill-whoring. Reborn hardly has any kill-whoring. Not because of players not choosing to but because of what the teams offer when structures are down.

 

With Renegade, that depends on what qualifies as "hardly any." With Reborn I agree, but you can't say that it's because of the infantry choices because everyone who did kill-whore in the past is gone now.

 

Actually the person who did do it often said several times that he didn't do it in Reborn because it was much harder to do.

 

And no the situation currently does not mean game over. I have seen teams pull out of a lost powerplant or ref. I have seen teams pull out of no barracks or wf. There have been times where the field is completely leveled despite one team losing a structure. It's more difficult for GDI and happens less often for them because they don't have a mid to late tier long range anti vehicle unit. Nod does so they don't have as much headache and can pull one from no where.

[Bfranx]

 

 

 

 

 

Well it's shifting the focus because the game is normally meant to begin with infantry and work upward to vehicles.

Infantry are still relevant in the lategame. For example, if a team loses their War Factory but still has an APC, infantry become pretty deadly. Their ability to attack structures from the inside makes them pretty powerful regardless of what stage the game is in. So if a team loses it's war factory, how do you propose that they make a comeback from that, if infantry aren't supposed to be as good as vehicles?

 

They aren't.

 

Bfranx, your entire argument seems to revolve around the match ending the moment you lose your War Factory. That's incredibly bad game design.

Tell that to the people who made C&C mode. Because that's how it works.

 

Infantry is always relevant for Nod and in quite a few cases GDI.

 

Losing 1 structure should never mean game over. It should punish the team by making the game more difficult for them. Not make it impossible.

 

Renegade had a vast array of infantry for this exact same purpose: to make them relevant after the War Factory gets destroyed. Granted, Renegade went a little too hogwild with this, but still. Having late game infantry options has proven time and time again to be superior to just focusing on vehicles until the War Factory goes down and calling it game there.

But even with all of the various infantry available in the game, kill-whoring is still a possibility.

 

Renegade hardly has any kill-whoring. Reborn hardly has any kill-whoring. Not because of players not choosing to but because of what the teams offer when structures are down.

 

With Renegade, that depends on what qualifies as "hardly any." With Reborn I agree, but you can't say that it's because of the infantry choices because everyone who did kill-whore in the past is gone now.

 

Actually the person who did do it often said several times that he didn't do it in Reborn because it was much harder to do.

 

And no the situation currently does not mean game over. I have seen teams pull out of a lost powerplant or Refinery. I have seen teams pull out of no barracks or War Factory. There have been times where the field is completely leveled despite one team losing a structure. It's more difficult for GDI and happens less often for them because they don't have a mid to late tier long range anti vehicle unit. Nod does so they don't have as much headache and can pull one from no where.

 

EDIT: The person that did it often? You're adding new things to the game to counter the actions of a single person?

 

Unless there are silos on that map (or the other team has lost buildings as well), there is no way you're going to come back from losing a refinery.

 

I have also seen people come back from losing infantry or vehicle producing buildings, but at that point it comes down to the players themselves and not necessarily the game.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Bfranx

[Garrus09]

Except you can get credits by shooting Vehicles, Buildings, and Infantry. So yes there is a way and yes it has happened where teams come back from a lost refinery. Players themselves can't work if the game doesn't let them.. They lost a structure did they not? Yet they were capable of coming back. So they were bad enough to let it happen yet pulled themselves together to make something work and the game play allowed them to.

 

 

 

EDIT: The person that did it often? You're adding new things to the game to counter the actions of a single person?

 

literally putting words into my mouth.

 

Where at all did I say that this new unit is to stop kill whoring? This new Unit is to allow GDI to put up a fight even after a War Factory is lost.

[Bfranx]

Except you can get credits by shooting Vehicles, Buildings, and Infantry. So yes there is a way and yes it has happened where teams come back from a lost refinery. Players themselves can't work if the game doesn't let them.. They lost a structure did they not? Yet they were capable of coming back. So they were bad enough to let it happen yet pulled themselves together to make something work and the game play allowed them to.

 

 

 

EDIT: The person that did it often? You're adding new things to the game to counter the actions of a single person?

 

 

literally putting words into my mouth.

 

Where at all did I say that this new unit is to stop kill whoring? This new Unit is to allow GDI to put up a fight even after a War Factory is lost.

 

I'm not putting words into your mouth, you literally just said GDI can't put up a fight without a War Factory.

 

And, as the entire conversation has said, this leads to kill-whoring.

[Garrus09]

 

Except you can get credits by shooting Vehicles, Buildings, and Infantry. So yes there is a way and yes it has happened where teams come back from a lost refinery. Players themselves can't work if the game doesn't let them.. They lost a structure did they not? Yet they were capable of coming back. So they were bad enough to let it happen yet pulled themselves together to make something work and the game play allowed them to.

 

 

 

EDIT: The person that did it often? You're adding new things to the game to counter the actions of a single person?

 

 

literally putting words into my mouth.

 

Where at all did I say that this new unit is to stop kill whoring? This new Unit is to allow GDI to put up a fight even after a War Factory is lost.

 

I'm not putting words into your mouth, you literally just said GDI can't put up a fight without a War Factory.

 

And, as the entire conversation has said, this leads to kill-whoring.

Wow that's ignorant.

 

I tell you that a person known for kill whoring can't do it because it's hard. Immediately assumes this action is because of kill whoring not because of how meta works.

If this was to defeat kill whoring why would we change anything then? The top expert of kill-whoring admitted it was too hard.

[Bfranx]

 

 

Except you can get credits by shooting Vehicles, Buildings, and Infantry. So yes there is a way and yes it has happened where teams come back from a lost refinery. Players themselves can't work if the game doesn't let them.. They lost a structure did they not? Yet they were capable of coming back. So they were bad enough to let it happen yet pulled themselves together to make something work and the game play allowed them to.

 

 

 

EDIT: The person that did it often? You're adding new things to the game to counter the actions of a single person?

 

 

literally putting words into my mouth.

 

Where at all did I say that this new unit is to stop kill whoring? This new Unit is to allow GDI to put up a fight even after a War Factory is lost.

 

I'm not putting words into your mouth, you literally just said GDI can't put up a fight without a War Factory.

 

And, as the entire conversation has said, this leads to kill-whoring.

Wow that's ignorant.

 

I tell you that a person known for kill whoring can't do it because it's hard. Immediately assumes this action is because of kill whoring not because of how meta works.

If this was to defeat kill whoring why would we change anything then? The top expert of kill-whoring admitted it was too hard.

 

 

How is it an ignorant assumption when almost the entire conversation has been centered around kill-whoring?

[Garrus09]

Denounced kill whoring twice.. So yeah.. pretty ignorant to keep going on about it.

[Bfranx]

Denounced kill whoring twice.. So yeah.. pretty ignorant to keep going on about it.

 

What are you even talking about at this point?

[Garrus09]

 

Renegade hardly has any kill-whoring. Reborn hardly has any kill-whoring. Not because of players not choosing to but because of what the teams offer when structures are down.

 

1

 

Actually the person who did do it often said several times that he didn't do it in Reborn because it was much harder to do.

2

 

Carry on in another topic please. You have shit this one up enough.

[Bfranx]

 

Renegade hardly has any kill-whoring. Reborn hardly has any kill-whoring. Not because of players not choosing to but because of what the teams offer when structures are down.

1

 

Actually the person who did do it often said several times that he didn't do it in Reborn because it was much harder to do.

2

 

Carry on in another topic please. You have shit this one up enough.

 

First one is false, second one is irrelevant.

 

Nice try, but everyone involved in this conversation has shit this thread up, not just me.

 

I agree though, we really should leave this alone. I think there was a miscommunication somewhere down the line.

[OWA]

Split from the main topic. Continue if you wish.

[delta]

I think killwhoring happens because Nod often doesn't have a good way of finishing off a crippled GDI base short of a mass Tick Tank rush. Whereas with GDI it's a simple matter to just get a Titan or Disruptor and then driving over to Nod base to pound it to rubble, Nod vehicles aren't anywhere as efficient at demolishing base structures...and they have much thinner armor to boot, making them vulnerable to being whittled down by Officers and Jumpjets, or bombed to death by Disk Throwers. So, if your team isn't coordinating a mass Tick rush, what's a Nod player to do? Get a Stealth Tank, Buggy, Devil's Tongue, or Reaper, and try to kill enough of those Officers and Disk Throwers until GDI runs out of money. Hence...killwhoring.