OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Just now, Retaliation said: When I asked shade why he suspected you, he said he assumed so for the same reason you assume an investigation is right. Which sort of implies shade could have gotten it wrong. Then again visiting chop is kind of an obvious trick. I'm still not getting what you mean. And unless Shade can be confirmed to have visited Chop either way, it's kind of a moot point. To know what happens when Shade visits a sith, he'd have to actually do that, and as far as I can tell he has not, unless you're going to argue you yourself are a sith (which I don't think you'd make that argument) or that I'm a sith, which I for one know is not true, and I think I have the credentials to back it up beyond the whole shade thing via the proxy argument with Jeod. We don't know what happens if Shade visits a sith, so it doesn't factor in. I could muddle that in my theory, but all it would do would be to add you to my list of suspects, which I honestly don't think is the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I'll start with conclusion. Who should we vote Sith? Chopbam Why? Well, I have to pose several other statements to explain. How many sith are there? Two. How do we know? Because I got corrupted TWICE, once probably by Jeod, AND Irish's action is accounted for. I'm working under the assumption Irish is Sith as well, but even if he's not, we can account for the action of Sunflower being drained by him. I don't think it's some racial ability, but I do think it's something to he did. There's really no reason for him to lie about him being responsible even if he is a Sith, though, so let's leave that there for now. That leaves one corruption due to Jeod, and one corruption do to unknown forces. Who are the Sith? I'll leave the case for Irish out of this for now. I think we all know what's up with that. Besides, my plan has a safety feature if he does turn out to be town anyway. We go for the other Sith first. Part of that is because Irish is strong, and we need to "build" a champion to take him on, and I believe the other sith to be much weaker, mostly because Irish clearly has two boons from winning duels. Let's talk about who is NOT the sith. Myself: The contact with Shade, which was later confirmed, the argument with Jeod. I think it's pretty clear these things wouldn't have happened if I was sith. Retal: I fully believe his contact with Shade, especially after Cat 5's opinion on the matter. Again, Shade told me he could not contact people corrupted by the dark side. Voe: He's been afk and honest. I saw him do nothing the turn I was corrupted. Sunflower: She was on board the Jeod hate train early, and volunteered to be the target for Shade to contact. I don't think a Sith would volunteer to be the contact, because in the long run Shade would still come back and verify what I had said, even if the sith got a short term game of offing me at that juncture. Who does that leave? Chopbam! What has Chopbam done! A mind meld with Nodlied, and basically nothing else. Does that clear him? No! Why? From what's been described, what this mind meld does is share a target's action result/PM with the initiator of the meld. This is not an inherently towny action, especially if you consider people agreed Nodlied was suspicious after we had TWO people confirm he was alignment copping. Sith might not know who their partners are, or the action is done to try and earn town points. Also, keep in mind, this is secondary to the process of elimination as well. What do we do from here? Choose our champion. We can't afford to sith vs sith, as we've seen top level powers at play, and we're not going to win unless we likewise buff ourselves up. Retal or Voe are the best bets, though Voe a little less because of his low FP. We need someone who's strong enough to win, and strong enough to take on Irish next round. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Point is he didn't say yes when I asked if he was sure about only being able to visit Jedi, he made a comparison. If he said he could only visit Jedi to you, the difference might be that the rules were tightened between our visits. It might also have been a stab at my trusting Nodlied's results and arguing against his Irish case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Orangep47, the Earth King has invited you to Lake Laogai. We suspect Irish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Just now, Retaliation said: Point is he didn't say yes when I asked if he was sure about only being able to visit Jedi, he made a comparison. If he said he could only visit Jedi to you, the difference might be that the rules were tightened between our visits. It might also have been a stab at my trusting Nodlied's results and arguing against his Irish case. I'm betting the rules were tightened. Shade and I kind of took the communication to its logical conclusion, which may have been too far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Just now, ChopBam said: Orangep47, the Earth King has invited you to Lake Laogai. We suspect Irish. That was KY's idea, that Avatar air bender whatever it is doesn't work on me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I don't think we can risk not attempting to force sith vs sith duels Orange. The benefit from winning is minimal from what I've seen (twice the effect for twice the stamina), and we'll be slowly picked off if we don't roleblock sith as much as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Never seen it. Additionally we suspect Voe because of the rule of 2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Oh, I get it now. That was supposed to show you were actually in contact with KY.... hmmmm..... But didn't Shade say the rules tightened so we're not allowed to do that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voe Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I've learnt tier 3 tonight. Thus -90. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said: Oh, I get it now. That was supposed to show you were actually in contact with KY.... hmmmm..... But didn't Shade say the rules tightened so we're not allowed to do that? There's probably a way around it, but I was too lazy to try and figure one out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Just now, Retaliation said: There's probably a way around it, but I was too lazy to try and figure one out I mean, if Chopbam is a Sith, I have to give him an A+ for effort at the very least.... That was publicly available info from the Death Note Thread, but it is indeed a KY idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 You know what, I think I agree. If I'm reading the CVC right, voe spent an entire day/night cycle doing nothing with FP. That's pretty wierd. ##vote champion Voe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 We must consider the fact, though, that Voe didn't use a force action the night I got double corrupted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voe Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I can champion no problem, but I'd rather regen my FP before a fight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said: We must consider the fact, though, that Voe didn't use a force action the night I got double corrupted. Voe rested the night before and still had 100 FP at the end of that night. Do we know he didn't use a force action or do we assume because all force actions seem to cost FP? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIrishman Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I think we can assume FRAYDO was Town. He has full FP, as if he rested, and it wouldn't make sense for Scum to die during the night. The only chance of him being Scum is if there were two left and one killed him for his power. Sun rested, so she can't be the culprit. The only way she could be Scum is if there are two Scum left. Orange, used to be clear for me, but maybe that's not the case. More explained below. If he's Town and wins, he'll get Light Meditation Technique to clear him. If he's Town and loses, it shouldn't affect the FBI as much as a normal Townie's death. If he's Scum and loses, benefits are obvious. The only risk is if he's Scum and wins, but that's with every duel. Retaliation has practically no chance of being Scum as long as there's only one Scum left. Rested on Orange's corruption night, alignment checked by Nodlied, and visited by Shade. I couldn't have done anything last night because I just won a duel. Voe has practically no chance of being Scum as long as there's only one Scum left. GM confirmed afk during Orange's corruption. Chop has practically no chance of being Scum as long as there's only one Scum left. Rested during Orange's corruption. If we want to go with the idea that there are two Scum left, we should start with the one that killed FRAYDO, since it's the most recent case. Sunflower Rested, so again, we can clear her. Not suspicious Orange could've started off Town but was converted N4 and killed FRAYDO N5, but I'm not sure about it. Or he could've started Scum with Shade being wrong about only being able to visit Town, but I doubt that one. Suspicious. Retaliation, he seems to be the most Town person present given he has so much to clear him. Not suspicious. Again, I was unable to do anything. Voe says he learned a T3, but hasn't mentioned exactly what he's learned to prove his claim. Suspicious. Care to give us some details? ChopBam has either gone to great effort to prove he's Town while being Scum, or he's managed to skirt/break the Force Ghost restrictions? Huh. Vaguely suspicious. And if you really were visited by KY, can you explain why he lost 40 FP? So, ChopBam (barely), Voe, and Orange are the top suspects. Updated Table: Players Character Race Skills N0 N1 N2 N3 N4 N5 Sun Aayla Secura Twi’lek ? [Wis] Learn T1 Resist Dark Side Learn T2 +10 Max FP Learn T1 Resist Dark Side Rest Learn T2? Rest Shade Dare Komad Whiphid [Con] [Wis] Learn T1 + Protect Self Duel -10 FP -10 FP -20 FP -30 FP +5 FP OP47 Unknown Unknown [Dex] [Cha] Holo-Pad – Shade Track Force TheIrishman – No Force Used Learn T1 Track Force Nodlied – Sense Alignment Learn T2 Track Force TheIrishman – No Force Used Rest Learn T1 Track Force – Voe – No Force Used "Hibernation Trance" Nod Tichal Momicki Human [Con] [Int] Learn T1 Learn T2 Sense Force – Voe, Fear Sense Force – TheIrishman, Light Sense Force – Sunflower, Light Sense Force – Retal, Light + 10 FP Jeod Darth Voss “Human” [Dex] [Cha] Learn T1 ? (-10 FP) Learn T2 Duel -10 FP -10 FP -10 FP -10 FP KY John Ennis Mandalore [Str] [Wis] “Failed Holo-Pad – Orange” +10 Max FP Learn T1 Learn T2 Duel +5 FP +5 FP -40 FP Retal Senaviev Human [Con] [Wis] Learn T1 +10 Max FP Learn T2 +10 Max FP Learn T1 +10 Max FP Duel Rest T2? Cat 5 Christina Starleaper Kiffar [Dex] [Wis] Learn T1 Learn T2 Learn T1 Mind Meld – Nodlied Rest Duel +5 FP + 1 FP Irish Faelyn The Seeker Stennes Shifter [Con] [Int] Learn T1 Learn T2 Duel Learn T1 Learn T2 Rest Learn T3 Sense Force – Nodlied – Dark Eat Force - Sunflower Duel FRAY Rayd K’no Ozan Mirillian [Dex] [Cha] Holo-Pad – Orange Track Force TheIrishman – No Force Used Sense Meditation Force Track Orange – Force Track Force Track – TheIrishman – No Force Used Learn T1 Hibernation Trace Duel Rest? Died Voe Hermit VolDergar Kaleesh [Str] [Int] Learn 2 T1 Learn 2 T2 Duel Rest Nothing? Learn T3 Chop Unknown Human [Dex] [Wis] Learn T1 Learn T2 Mind Meld – Nodlied Learn T1 Rest "Mind Meld" Learn T2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I claimed to attempt to Mind Meld with Orange before he said he did a hibernation trance. Logically, I had some kind of knowledge of an action being blocked on Orange, whether it was Mind Melding or something else. Which means logically I could not have targeted FRAYDO. I have 30 FP unaccounted for in a non night special action, which is my second T2 Learning, so the chart is correct on that. No, I cannot explain why KY lost 40 FP. He says he is not allowed to tell me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 KY says he is "not concerned" with the FP loss. He seems to think it will make a difference if I say that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I only just realized you said KY's ghost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, ChopBam said: I claimed to attempt to Mind Meld with Orange before he said he did a hibernation trance. But I did say I was going to do it, in advance, the day before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 ##vote champion Chopbam 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 If it matters any, sorry for not believing you earlier on ghost visits, Retaliation. I want to go back and see if I can find holes in TheIrishman's arguments, but I'm too lazy to dig through 75 pages. In short, Orange, Retal, and I have had visits from force ghosts. Nodlied's sense on TIM might have been altered, but that's the strongest thing going for him right now. If he is sith, then either it's a two-man team (with Voe having gone for higher corruption or Sunflower--which is less likely due to us town reading her), or dark actions (like killing fraydo) probably don't cost any force points. I'm not sure I believe that last one but KY is pretty convinced that can happen. KY pointed out a meta-play in Irish, similar to last game in that he is hesitant to do much more than spout the facts until he gains town trust. At that point he goes for somebody's jugular (in this case, Nodlied). In any event, if Irish really did do a sense on Nodlied and give us his result, it was wrong. Irish didn't even allow for the fact that his sense could have been wrong when zeroing in on Nodlied. No mention of his faulty sense today... but look at what he believed yesterday: On 2/5/2018 at 3:11 PM, TheIrishman said: >.> I'm pretty certain the only way I'm wrong is if someone Jedi Mind Tricked me. But Chop rested, Retal rested, Voe was afk, FRAYDO couldn't do anything because of the Duel, and if you made my ability insane, then I would've read you as Light. The only people left would be Orange and Sunflower. Orange is confirmed Town, while I don't think Sunflower is a mastermind who'd expect me to use Sense Force tonight which would've normally left me at 0 FP if I really did want to learn a T3 (which who wouldn't?). And I don't believe Vert would implement the one-time use "make all cops insane" like ChopBam had in Orange's game. Therefore you're Scum. Is that a slip? Do you know the name of the action that changes a sense result? Was it applied to Nodlied on the night he looked your way? 4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said: But I did say I was going to do it, in advance, the day before. It would be extremely risky for me to make my claim, basing my entire game on believing that you did what you said you'd do... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Does KY have anything to say about why he was missing as a ghost for awhile? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 I'll ask him. It's also occurred to me that Sunflower and Irish are actually a team, and this whole "stealing force points" thing was faked to cover up a powerful action that Sunflower used. At this point I'm brainstorming for options, and that might seem like a stretch. I still think it's very unlikely this is the case though, because Sunflower's post tips me off here: On 2/4/2018 at 7:56 PM, Sunflower said: I think there's like a 95% chance that our sith pair is Irish and Nodlied. I don't think she would peg Irish as "95% chance scum" if she was on a team with him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 KY says we can figure it out for ourselves as to what he's been up to. It's a bit cryptic if you ask me, but I don't think he's eager to push the line again with the rules. But he also said it's not an issue so we shouldn't worry too much about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Following from TIM's post, we might be tempted right now to ask ourselves the corruption questions: 1) Was Voe's corruption actually stopped? 2) Has Orange's corruption continued? But that doesn't answer who the remaining scum was after Jeod died. I think everything still points to TheIrishman, especially after this Nodlied fiasco, which TheIrishman seems to have completely ignored so far today. ##vote sith TheIrishman If I'm the champion today, I'll probably die. But who knows, RNGsus might be with me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopBam Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Oh wait, is he immune from dueling twice in a row? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeP47 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Just now, ChopBam said: Oh wait, is he immune from dueling twice in a row? We can Sith people to our heart's content. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 No we can send him up as much as we want if we vote him sith. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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