Games Vanilla-Chocolate Twist Mafia

[Shade939]

10 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Might as well fully commit and also say who you used your bodyguard action on.

Never mind, you actually did commit, and I don't like your answer.

[TheIrishman]

Just now, Shade939 said:

OTOH, it's the perfect argument to make to try and get a No Lynch if that's what you want. And I don't put it past Irish, so he can probably take my suspicions as a compliment all things considered.

I actually do. The problem is that it's something that I'm clever enough to do, but it doesn't help when I'm on Mafia (or Town in a normal game). Like, I feel like you guys are putting me on a Jeod-tier of scumminess potential. And I've only ever been Scum twice.

Just now, Shade939 said:

Might as well fully commit and also say who you used your bodyguard action on.

I didn't use it on anybody. I said I was going to use it on her and then save myself, but why would I use my bodyguard action on the rest of you? I don't question her alignment mostly, but I don't think it would've been worth saving you, Cat5, or Jeod in exchange for myself. Jeod and Cat5, at the time, I was suspicious of. To be honest, I probably would've hammered down on Jeod today if he didn't die (obviously Sunflower's investigation probably would've changed that). While you did that somewhat sketchy vote swap to Jeod.

Say if I did bodyguard someone and I died, no one would've known (unless they're informed via notification but there's nothing to support that), so it wouldn't have helped. If I announced who I was going to bodyguard before day start and the person wound up being Town and they killed me, then they would've taken advantage of that fact and it would've helped "clear" them as Mafia. Really I hate bodyguard, probably my most disliked role because I think I'm more effective at hunting than anybody I could save since I don't have to worry about my alignment. I even told iLTS that I'm the worst bodyguard because I value myself above others. God Complex isn't there for no reason.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

1 hour ago, Shade939 said:

Yeah, I can picture any number of ways for Sunflowers cop report to be thrown off tomorrow, so I'm not really disinclined to actually lynching TheIrishman today based largely on meta arguments, this basically reminds me of Star Wars Mafia when Irish is very thorough in his defense, and he's really the only player I haven't gotten any Mafia reads outside of his role claim which honestly sounds fabricated.

##Vote TheIrishman

While from my perspective, a nolynch isn't needed, we probably should do it anyway. Sunflower's report will be of use no matter what comes up. We'll just have to figure out what the result means when we get there.

##vote nolynch

1 hour ago, Sunflower said:

I could see that happening but I'm confused about why you want a nolynch if you think my result might end up losing the game for us? It's a pretty convenient argument too. Yesterday, Jeod said he thought there wouldn't be any godfathers in this game.

I don't know how it's convenient. It would be a problem. It might be an imaginary problem, but I figure there is no way you survive a Daykill unless Town doesn't fear your investigation. That could mean a role that will cause an incorrect investigation, or perhaps just confidence that they won't be investigated. Or I could be overthinking and paranoid and OrangeP47 didn't calculate his shot to that degree. I can't know the answer. I won't until I'm dead.

1 hour ago, Shade939 said:

Sunflower, you remember those charts Category 5 posted a while back about how he's keeping track of the interactions for everyone.

Don't do that. I specifically don't want my notes being used as evidence of my alignment. The conclusions I make using them should be what you analyze, not the charts themselves.

57 minutes ago, Sunflower said:

That's true but he's also asking us to believe he was silenced and is suggesting that Irish is a godfather before even knowing the report on him.

I'm not going to presume to tell you what to do, but what I would prefer you do is investigate me. That should eliminate my concerns on TheIrishman's role. I'm sure I'll still be alive because TheIrishman doesn't have an angle to attack Shade or you, and he can't kill you because he has to think I'll be protecting you.

17 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:

I don't know of there are notifications in this game like the last one, but I ended up only using my Doctor ability on Sunflower. I say only because I was initially going to use my Bodyguard ability on her and Doctor myself, but I had doubts that it'd work like that.

You had doubts that it'd work like that? You mean iLTS didn't directly tell you that no, you can't use both actions at once and can't target yourself with them? Also, why have you not been using your claimed actions all game? Even if you had done so each night, you wouldn't be out of your claimed number of body guard actions yet.

[TheIrishman]

13 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

You had doubts that it'd work like that? You mean iLTS didn't directly tell you that no, you can't use both actions at once and can't target yourself with them? Also, why have you not been using your claimed actions all game? Even if you had done so each night, you wouldn't be out of your claimed number of body guard actions yet.

43 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:

Say if I did bodyguard someone and I died, no one would've known (unless they're informed via notification but there's nothing to support that), so it wouldn't have helped. If I announced who I was going to bodyguard before day start and the person wound up being Town and they killed me, then they would've taken advantage of that fact and it would've helped "clear" them as Mafia. Really I hate bodyguard, probably my most disliked role because I think I'm more effective at hunting than anybody I could save since I don't have to worry about my alignment. I even told iLTS that I'm the worst bodyguard because I value myself above others. God Complex isn't there for no reason.

The better question is, why would I use either in the first place? Before Sunflower, there was no one of enough value. I don't understand your willingness to self-sacrifice as if others have more worth.

2 x use Doctor and 4 x use Bodyguard, please enlighten me on how these would be ever so useful in the beginning? >.> Especially the Doctor, once it's used it's gone, regardless if it saves anyone. And no, he didn't tell me initially. I had doubts, so I asked him and he said that I can't use doctor on myself, which is silly imo because I think I could power through the pain. After all, my name is Dashawn Irishman Palone. 

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Thinking yourself more valuable than others is a personal problem. 

To see the value of a bodyguard, you have to think of it backwards. The bad guys choose to kill someone because they want that person dead. If you do something that keeps them alive, then by default something they want to happen, doesn't happen. That's nearly always going to be a good thing.

The only cases where it won't inherently be a good thing is when the bad guys don't really care who dies, or the person you saved becomes an idiot and loses the game for you. Both of those things are what you should be thinking about as a bodyguard anyway when choosing your target, so it's fine.

Being a bodyguard role means there are people more valuable than you on the field, and you should be thinking that way. You should be looking for the power roles and then trying to protect them. You should have been doing so all game.

But it doesn't matter, because you are lying. You aren't thinking the way you should be, because your claimed situation isn't true.

Doc uses would be kept for obvious situations like Sunflower's, but in my mind you should have guarded Jeod during N1 for sure. I was sure Jeod was going to be the N1 target if he wasn't scum himself. Which reminds me, I theorized one of the reasons why Jeod didn't die back then was because the scum team didn't notice his soft claim, and what better person to not notice the claim than the guy who didn't participate in the first 120 hours of this game?

[TheIrishman]

6 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Thinking yourself more valuable than others is a personal problem. Is it though?

To see the value of a bodyguard, you have to think of it backwards. The bad guys choose to kill someone because they want that person dead. If you do something that keeps them alive, then by default something they want to happen, doesn't happen. That's nearly always going to be a good thing. Again, when it comes to Scumhunting, I'm already one of the better ones. As for abilities, the only person other than myself with any claim is Sunflower, so arguably it wouldn't have mattered who Town targeted. If I used my Bodyguard early and ended up dying, then I would've essentially killed off the Doctor. You're failing to see why I hate this role. When I thought I could save 2 people, it wasn't so bad, but now that I know I can't, it seems pretty pointless.

The only cases where it won't inherently be a good thing is when the bad guys don't really care who dies, or the person you saved becomes an idiot and loses the game for you. Both of those things are what you should be thinking about as a bodyguard anyway when choosing your target, so it's fine. Again, no targets.

Being a bodyguard role means there are people more valuable than you on the field, and you should be thinking that way. You should be looking for the power roles and then trying to protect them. You should have been doing so all game. You're acting as if I wasn't observing if there was anybody that I should try to save when I was silent.

But it doesn't matter, because you are lying. You aren't thinking the way you should be, because your claimed situation isn't true. I'm just selfish/efficient.

Doc uses would be kept for obvious situations like Sunflower's, but in my mind you should have guarded Jeod during N1 for sure. I was sure Jeod was going to be the N1 target if he wasn't scum himself. Which reminds me, I theorized one of the reasons why Jeod didn't die back then was because the scum team didn't notice his soft claim, and what better person to not notice the claim than the guy who didn't participate in the first 120 hours of this game? Why would I guard the guy who soft claimed to be the doc when I'm the doc? I thought he was Scum initially. I was almost going to call him out, but then he played it off as if it was just some weird test, so I let it go for the moment.

 

[Sunflower]

5 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

The better question is, why would I use either in the first place? Before Sunflower, there was no one of enough value. I don't understand your willingness to self-sacrifice as if others have more worth.

2 x use Doctor and 4 x use Bodyguard, please enlighten me on how these would be ever so useful in the beginning? >.> Especially the Doctor, once it's used it's gone, regardless if it saves anyone. And no, he didn't tell me initially. I had doubts, so I asked him and he said that I can't use doctor on myself, which is silly imo because I think I could power through the pain. After all, my name is Dashawn Irishman Palone. 

Wait, you asked him? I thought you said that you decided not to do it because you didn't know. I thought that was a little unusual because you seem like someone who would want to know all the details and ask for GM confirmation.

[Sunflower]

6 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I don't know how it's convenient. It would be a problem. It might be an imaginary problem, but I figure there is no way you survive a Daykill unless Town doesn't fear your investigation. That could mean a role that will cause an incorrect investigation, or perhaps just confidence that they won't be investigated. Or I could be overthinking and paranoid and OrangeP47 didn't calculate his shot to that degree. I can't know the answer. I won't until I'm dead.

It just seems to me that ever since yesterday, you've been going all out against Irish, which would be exactly what you'd need to do if you were scum and needed to convince the remaining town players that have stronger alibis that there's someone more suspicious than you left in the game. It would be convenient in the sense that if you were scum and knew Irish would turn up as Mafia, you'd need to be able to explain why unless you wanted to turn it around on me (pretty much impossible - there is no way I would bus Orange like that. He's a good friend of mine lol). or Shade.

[Sunflower]

Admittedly I don't really like the idea of the game lasting for another 5 days because I've had some personal issues come up that are making it hard for me to focus. But it feels like a lynch today would be kinda risky.

[Sunflower]

5 minutes ago, Sunflower said:

It just seems to me that ever since yesterday, you've been going all out against Irish, which would be exactly what you'd need to do if you were scum and needed to convince the remaining town players that have stronger alibis that there's someone more suspicious than you left in the game. It would be convenient in the sense that if you were scum and knew Irish would turn up as Mafia, you'd need to be able to explain why unless you wanted to turn it around on me (pretty much impossible - there is no way I would bus Orange like that. He's a good friend of mine lol). or Shade.

I meant remaining Mafia players here. I keep getting mixed up with the terms this game.

[Shade939]

8 hours ago, Sunflower said:

Admittedly I don't really like the idea of the game lasting for another 5 days because I've had some personal issues come up that are making it hard for me to focus. But it feels like a lynch today would be kinda risky.

To be fair a no lynch is also risky since we're currently at MYLO, so any ability that offsets the vote balance tomorrow will cause the game to end during this night phase assuming a NK is successfully performed, which probably has at least a 40%ish chance of succeeding if Category 5 can prevent one of us from being killed tonight.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Vote Count:

TheIrishman (1 vote):

• Shade939

NoLynch (1 vote):

• Category 5 Hurricane

Hammer is in approximately 20 hours and 15 minutes at 6:30 PM EST 05/06.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Alright, the fact that TheIrishman hasn't had much to say even though he's at the highest risk of being lynched is making me impatient. And what little he has said has been contradictory. It feels like he knows he's been beaten and doesn't have the will to fight us.

He claims he doesn't care what my role is, yet his first post today was a demand for a full role claim from everyone. From who other than me was he expecting a role claim?

Now TheIrishman claims he was suspicious of Jeod during his soft claim, but he never raised those suspicions because he was busy doing his 120 hours of silence, which I still think was a potential setup to say that he was silenced during D2. He may have dropped it because discussion with Orange (who knew he was around!) might have pointed out something like "Why would scum silence a guy who made 1 post so far in the game" and then he abandoned the plan.

I have to leave for work now, so I can't be around to watch the vote. I'm going to leave my vote on nolynch as I think it's probably the safest option. However, Shade and Sunflower, if you both decide you'd rather lynch TheIrishman, I'm ok with that. TheIrishman will be able to force a tie, but getting a nolynch instead wouldn't be so bad anyway, so that's fine.

I might be able to be able to check while I'm at work, but I seriously doubt it. I haven't been able to get the page to load for months and I probably won't be able to break away from what I'm doing anyway.

[TheIrishman]

I'd rather vote Cat5 than go for No Lynch, but it doesn't look like that'll happen.

##No Lynch

I'm going to use both my Doctor and Bodyguard tonight, so I have a 50/50 chance of being dead or preventing a NK. It mostly depends on if Cat5 is Town, because if I'm wrong then that means Shade is Town. Sunflower, I think you should investigate Shade.

Here's my logic behind it, I plan on protecting/guarding you two. If Cat5 dies and Shade's alive while you investigated him, you should have a Town result on him. If I die while because of Bodyguard or being directly killed, then there's only you, Shade, and Cat5 left while you would've investigated Shade. If no one dies because the person I'm protecting lives, then you'd have a result on Shade. If he's Town, then we lynch him. If he's Mafia, then Cat5 is Town so we'd lynch him. If you don't trust me, then we could just No Lynch one more time while you investigate Cat5, I'll still have 2 more bodyguards left.

[Shade939]

What's with you guys and being unwilling to commit to a vote on a player you're convinced is scum?

[Shade939]

Also Irish, mostly leaving this point here for future reference if it actaully comes to pass, but what ability would a Town Docor have in this game?

[TheIrishman]

5 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Alright, the fact that TheIrishman hasn't had much to say even though he's at the highest risk of being lynched is making me impatient. And what little he has said has been contradictory. It feels like he knows he's been beaten and doesn't have the will to fight us. 

He claims he doesn't care what my role is, yet his first post today was a demand for a full role claim from everyone. From who other than me was he expecting a role claim? I expected a roleclaim from both you and Shade, but then you tried to get lofty making it sound like I need to know your role, that I truly madly and deeply care, which I don't. You claimed that your role and my role somehow conflict, but you can't even tell us what your role is when the game is just about to end which says to me that you were spewing more bullshit than Shade when he tried to claim Watcher.

Now TheIrishman claims he was suspicious of Jeod during his soft claim, but he never raised those suspicions I already explained this because he was busy doing his 120 hours of silence, which I still think was a potential setup to say that he was silenced during D2. He may have dropped it because discussion with Orange (who knew he was around!) might have pointed out something like "Why would scum silence a guy who made 1 post so far in the game" and then he abandoned the plan. Wasn't Orange one of the people that pointed out my silence? And I still think your silence claim is sketchy as hell with this being a basics game.

Just now, Shade939 said:

What's with you guys and being unwilling to commit to a vote on a player you're convinced is scum?

I said I'd be willing to commit against Cat5, but I don't think it'll happen so what's wrong with getting more information?

2 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Also Irish, mostly leaving this point here for future reference if it actaully comes to pass, but what ability would a Town Docor have in this game?

My first thought would be poisoning which would be a delayed kill, but that wouldn't work for a basics game. Maybe a dayblock in case Mafia had a daykill or potentially to roleblock/jail if they're drugging their target.

[Shade939]

Just now, TheIrishman said:

My first thought would be poisoning which would be a delayed kill, but that wouldn't work for a basics game. Maybe a dayblock in case Mafia had a daykill or potentially to roleblock/jail if they're drugging their target.

I'd bet on a ressurection ability with limited uses, which would certainly give you some decent odds of ending the game tonight.

Of course since Category 5 isn't willing to commit to a vote yet, I'm really tempted to vote him up now instead. 

##NoLynch

[TheIrishman]

Just now, Shade939 said:

I'd bet on a ressurection ability with limited uses, which would certainly give you some decent odds of ending the game tonight.

Of course since Category 5 isn't willing to commit to a vote yet, I'm really tempted to vote him up now instead. 

##NoLynch

Resurrection is an overpowered ability. The only reason why is was viable in KY's game was because there were so many powers, and even then it came with restrictions. As for this game, reviving isn't considered a basic ability.

[Shade939]

Just now, TheIrishman said:

Resurrection is an overpowered ability. The only reason why is was viable in KY's game was because there were so many powers, and even then it came with restrictions. As for this game, reviving isn't considered a basic ability.

Neither is a doctor/bodyguard highbrid Mafia role, I think we had enough vanilla Mafia goons that those roles could have been divided up more...

[TheIrishman]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

Neither is a doctor/bodyguard highbrid Mafia role, I think we had enough vanilla Mafia goons that those roles could have been divided up more...

>.> iLTS already amended that there can be multiple abilities in a role. The point I'm trying to make is that what I have are considered "basic" abilities. Resurrection is not.

[Shade939]

Just now, TheIrishman said:

>.> iLTS already amended that there can be multiple abilities in a role. The point I'm trying to make is that what I have are considered "basic" abilities. Resurrection is not.

That definition is basically a matter of personal opinion, so it includes everything ILTS calls a "basic" role.

[TheIrishman]

Just now, Shade939 said:

That definition is basically a matter of personal opinion, so it includes everything ILTS calls a "basic" role.

I'm pretty certain he wouldn't go outside the norm considering he's a veteran player.

These are the general basic roles. Anything outside of these shouldn't be in this game, that includes the silencer ability Cat5 claimed to have hit him and the resurrection ability you're suspicious of.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Normal_Roles

[Shade939]

##Vote TheIrishman

You can blame ILTS after this game, but your role just sounds completely made up, and the GM saying the dead Town player had a similar role to yours really isn't helping any.

[TheIrishman]

You're making no sense with your voting. First you vote me up, then you go No Lynch while admitting that you were tempted to vote up Cat5. Now you're switching back to me? It really sounds like you don't care who gets voted. It doesn't help that you even essentially condemn the idea of getting more information.

[Shade939]

6 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:

You're making no sense with your voting. First you vote me up, then you go No Lynch while admitting that you were tempted to vote up Cat5. Now you're switching back to me? It really sounds like you don't care who gets voted. It doesn't help that you even essentially condemn the idea of getting more information.

Yeah, it's like I'm not trying to appear as a Mafia player and instead I'm actaully going after who I think the Town players are. 

And I think it's actaully very consistent on my part to be voting you up considering everything that's happened this game.

[TheIrishman]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Yeah, it's like I'm not trying to appear as a Mafia player and instead I'm actaully going after who I think the Town players are. 

And I think it's actaully very consistent on my part to be voting you up considering everything that's happened this game.

You seem more desperate to me. Given Cat5 probably isn't even aware of my plan since he went to work, your reaction is the most suspicious. With you and Sunflower being guaranteed to be alive, while you'll be the one who's investigated, there's no way for you to refute what's to come. You only have 3 options left: 

1. To try and get a lynch today and win. It seems you think I'll be the easiest.

2. To kill me directly or maybe indirectly tonight and lose.

3. To directly kill Cat5 and lose.

[Shade939]

3 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:

You seem more desperate to me. Given Cat5 probably isn't even aware of my plan since he went to work, your reaction is the most suspicious. With you and Sunflower being guaranteed to be alive, while you'll be the one who's investigated, there's no way for you to refute what's to come. You only have 3 options left: 

1. To try and get a lynch today and win. It seems you think I'll be the easiest.

2. To kill me directly or maybe indirectly tonight and lose.

3. To directly kill Cat5 and lose.

You really having been paying attention to these past few days if you're considering me as a Town suspect...

[TheIrishman]

4 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

You really having been paying attention to these past few days if you're considering me as a Town suspect...

haven't* ?

It's about 30/70 between you and Cat5 right now, but the way you're acting is making me question that.

[Shade939]

Just now, TheIrishman said:

haven't* ?

It's about 30/70 between you and Cat5 right now, but the way you're acting is making me question that.

Your actions don't particularly support that claim.