GDI Titan in Renegade X

[RypeL]

TSR has alot of units that have features that Renegade X never planned for. Underground units, Unit detection, Mechs, and Deploy-able vehicles are just a hand full of issues that we would be running into with the Renegade X SDK. One of the biggest issues that we currently have with the W3D engine is that everything has to be scripted in and a lot of what we want to do isn't possible because of that reason. With the Renegade X SDK we would have a lot of those same issues

(http://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=135&p=150347#p150347)

http://abload.de/img/2015-03-24_000040kstl.jpg

"Underground units,Unit detection" ? -> Sure

 

Im just putting salt in i know. But you kinda asked for it by saying this uninformed things about the Renegade X SDK. Thats all. Peace

Edited May 28, 2015 by RypeL

[Bayonetta]

 

TSR has alot of units that have features that Renegade X never planned for. Underground units, Unit detection, Mechs, and Deploy-able vehicles are just a hand full of issues that we would be running into with the Renegade X SDK. One of the biggest issues that we currently have with the W3D engine is that everything has to be scripted in and a lot of what we want to do isn't possible because of that reason. With the Renegade X SDK we would have a lot of those same issues

(http://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=135&p=150347#p150347)

http://abload.de/img/2015-03-24_000040kstl.jpg

"Underground units,Unit detection" ? -> Sure

 

Im just putting salt in i know. But you kinda asked for it by saying this uninformed things about the Renegade X SDK. Thats all. Peace

 

 

God that fucking animation on the titan is pure sweetness with a big pile of more sweetness on top. That's how i want the Titan in Reborn to move like

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bayonetta

[GeneralCamo]

Hmm:

• The animation seems a bit stiff when the foot comes down. An easy enough fix though.
• That is a pretty short barrel, it isn't to scale with the Cybergooch references
• What are those holes in the barrel for? Not only was that not in the cybergooch reference, but those do not belong on a tank gun.

Pretty good model though.

 

 

TSR has alot of units that have features that Renegade X never planned for. Underground units, Unit detection, Mechs, and Deploy-able vehicles are just a hand full of issues that we would be running into with the Renegade X SDK. One of the biggest issues that we currently have with the W3D engine is that everything has to be scripted in and a lot of what we want to do isn't possible because of that reason. With the Renegade X SDK we would have a lot of those same issues

(http://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=135&p=150347#p150347)
http://abload.de/img/2015-03-24_000040kstl.jpg
"Underground units,Unit detection" ? -> Sure

Im just putting salt in i know. But you kinda asked for it by saying this uninformed things about the Renegade X SDK. Thats all. Peace

 

I could say the same thing about you being uninformed about TSR, since he was referring to Underground logic, which is different than stealth detection. However, I've gained a lot of information about your SDK, and it does seem to be quite powerful.

[OWA]

Im just putting salt in i know. But you kinda asked for it by saying this uninformed things about the Renegade X SDK. Thats all. Peace

Whilst that does look great, none of us here really wish to invest the time in learning and finding others who know uScript. When Unreal 4 was release, uScript has now become a dead language because C++ and blueprint are simply better. The things that Wally said were not uninformed at all, we just don't wish to fight with a bad scripting language like uScript to reimplement complicated features that we already have working perfectly well.

It would take a lot of time and effort to port over Reborn to the RenXDK for very little gain. Our programmers don't wish to learn uScript and since UE4 makes use of C++ (that every self respecting programmer should know), it's a much more viable development platform.

 

Also for a free game like Reborn, there's not really all that much wrong with the Renegade Engine itself. Graphics can be made better and the vehicle physics are arguably better than Renegade X's (tank stacking anyone?).

 

I'll leave you with this image as to what we're working on in the Renegade engine and you'll see how far we're pushing it.

 

[wolf]

 

 

TSR has alot of units that have features that Renegade X never planned for. Underground units, Unit detection, Mechs, and Deploy-able vehicles are just a hand full of issues that we would be running into with the Renegade X SDK. One of the biggest issues that we currently have with the W3D engine is that everything has to be scripted in and a lot of what we want to do isn't possible because of that reason. With the Renegade X SDK we would have a lot of those same issues

(http://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=135&p=150347#p150347)

http://abload.de/img/2015-03-24_000040kstl.jpg

"Underground units,Unit detection" ? -> Sure

 

Im just putting salt in i know. But you kinda asked for it by saying this uninformed things about the Renegade X SDK. Thats all. Peace

 

CCR X is upon us

Edited May 28, 2015 by wolf

[moonsense715]

CCR X is upon us

With a model from Tiberian Sun Aftermath? If they take models from it, and others from TSR, sure.

[RypeL]

I could say the same thing about you being uninformed about TSR, since he was referring to Underground logic, which is different than stealth detection.

Can you ? Where did i say underground is stealth logic ? I meant that both are easily possible in UDK. Im assuming with underground logic you mean tanks that can travel beyond the surface. And why should that be complicated to make ? You just add an animation for it to dig itself in then you make it invisible and disable its collision. Should be pretty much done in minutes. Thats no rocket science.

 

@OWA: Unreal Script is an OO Language like C++. It is 90% identical to C++. Any "self respecting" programmer should have no issues learning a slightly different language. Any "self respecting" programmer should learn more then just one language. The biggest challenge you would run into in either UDK or UE4 is getting to know the API and how things fit together (and the API is 90% identical in UDK and UE4 as Epic obviously didnt reinvent their whole API from UE3 to UE4).

 

But i get that you want to work on YOUR projects and you do not consider RenX or extensions to it to be your project. You either want to continue on w3d or want to make something completly new (so years down the line if ever). GL. Though when it turns out to be this easy to get tiberium vehicles working in RenX and the reborn team doesent want to work on it then the question comes up about what should we do to not let this titan etc go to waste. Its taking our vehicle designer about a day per vehicle to get it working in RenX and he would gladly offer his help and expertice to any team trying to make a tiberium mod. Of course if the model artists wouldnt give permission the models would need to be redone so this would take a lot more time then.

 

I know this is all tough to awnser. But it is not my job to tell the commuunity what to do. However as part of the RenX team i do consider it to be my job to inform you about the options so the community can make informed decissions.

Edited May 29, 2015 by RypeL

[Timeaua]

Also for a free game like Reborn, there's not really all that much wrong with the Renegade Engine itself. Graphics can be made better and the vehicle physics are arguably better than Renegade X's (tank stacking anyone?).

 

 

Youre right. The vehicle physics of RenX are a huge mess compared to the original Renegade

[wolf]

 

I could say the same thing about you being uninformed about TSR, since he was referring to Underground logic, which is different than stealth detection.

Can you ? Where did i say underground is stealth logic ? I meant that both are easily possible in UDK. Im assuming with underground logic you mean tanks that can travel beyond the surface. And why should that be complicated to make ? You just add an animation for it to dig itself in then you make it invisible and disable its collision. Should be pretty much done in minutes. Thats no rocket science.

 

@OWA: Unreal Script is an OO Language like C++. It is 90% identical to C++. Any "self respecting" programmer should have no issues learning a slightly different language. Any "self respecting" programmer should learn more then just one language. The biggest challenge you would run into in either UDK or UE4 is getting to know the API and how things fit together (and the API is 90% identical in UDK and UE4 as Epic obviously didnt reinvent their whole API from UE3 to UE4).

 

But i get that you want to work on YOUR projects and you do not consider RenX or extensions to it to be your project. You either want to continue on w3d or want to make something completly new (so years down the line if ever). GL. Though when it turns out to be this easy to get tiberium vehicles working in RenX and the reborn team doesent want to work on it then the question comes up about what should we do to not let this titan etc go to waste. Its taking our vehicle designer about a day per vehicle to get it working in RenX and he would gladly offer his help and expertice to any team trying to make a tiberium mod. Of course if the model artists wouldnt give permission the models would need to be redone so this would take a lot more time then.

 

I know this is all tough to awnser. But it is not my job to tell the commuunity what to do. However as part of the RenX team i do consider it to be my job to inform you about the options so the community can make informed decissions.

 

 

 

Pretty much all of the asset creators who worked on original Reborn are cool with a UDK port. None of them are active on the current team, besides DarkAngel i think.

Edited May 29, 2015 by wolf

[OWA]

@OWA: Unreal Script is an OO Language like C++. It is 90% identical to C++. Any "self respecting" programmer should have no issues learning a slightly different language. Any "self respecting" programmer should learn more then just one language. The biggest challenge you would run into in either UDK or UE4 is getting to know the API and how things fit together (and the API is 90% identical in UDK and UE4 as Epic obviously didnt reinvent their whole API from UE3 to UE4).

Any self respecting programmer should be smart enough to understand that learning a language that can't be applied to more than one thing is pretty useless in the real world. When you say that programmers should know more than one language, then yeah sure you're right there, but that language shouldn't be uscript. Javascript, C++, C#, Python and Lua are all infinitely more useful languages to know than uscript. Hell, even HTML is more practically useful than uscript.

Whilst uscript is useful for UDK, times have changed and game engine technology has advanced. UDK is old and is slowly becoming very niche. Why should we move from one niche to another when the current Unreal Engine offers far better tools and a programming language that aligns with our own?

 

Even though all the of the basic game-mode logic is in place, the fact of the matter is that Renegade is incredibly simple when compared to something like AR and TSR. The code that drives our units is better suited to an engine with better tools that uses the same language.

 

Even if uscript is 90% like C++, that doesn't stop it from being completely obsolete thanks to UE4. You're not really selling this very well for me here.

 

Pretty much all of the asset creators who worked on original Reborn are cool with a UDK port. None of them are active on the current team, besides DarkAngel i think.

If you want to get a team together and apply to join us, then be my guest. I'd be all for accommodating this project if enough people want to work on it and the rest of us agree. It would be mutually beneficial if the two projects were to work alongside each other if such a thing were to happen because we have a good infrastructure that could be made use of.

 

However, it's not really sporting or honourable of you to underhandedly start up a mod of the same name with the blessings of people who don't even work on the project anymore. At least have the decency to call it something different and make your own assets if you plan on going it alone.

[RypeL]

If you know C++ you will understand most Unreal Script code instantly. Thats what you dont understand in what i was trying to say: You think its about learning the syntax about Unreal Script but its not. The Unreal Script syntax is so easy that you should understand it in no time if you know another OO language. "Learning Unreal Script" so far was always a synonym for "learning the API and classes etc of the engine". You think if you know C++ you are already fine for UE4 and Cryengine and can do anything you want instantly ? No, not even close. For example in either UE3 or UE4 you need to learn how their networking and the replication works. It isent so different how you think it would be. "Learning Unreal Script" in the past for example also meant learning about replication. You still need to learn about replication and more stuff you can imagine in UE4 and the concepts behind those didnt really change. Wich is also why UDK coders have a big head start over someone who is new to UE4. In other words: "The language is just a tool that you can learn quickly but it is the API you need to master. All in all your making a lot of calls while properly having no experience with any of the stuff that you are talking about.

 

 

 

Even though all the of the basic game-mode logic is in place, the fact of the matter is that Renegade is incredibly simple when compared to something like AR and TSR.

Like what would this "incredibly complicated" logic in AR and TSR be ?

 

The bottom line is that a UE4 version is either never happening or atleast quite a few years away. So a UDK version could be something for in between. There could very well be two different teams, one working on UE4 and one working on UDK.

Edited May 29, 2015 by RypeL

[GeneralCamo]

Well, I had a nice long talk with Blackwolf about his TS project. Turns out he is making C&C Reborn, and not Tiberian Sun Reborn, since many of the logic we used is complicated. I did not get a chance to pursue this, but one of the things mentioned was Veteran Logic. That's a core TS and RA2 gameplay feature, and compared to the rest of the stuff (Superweapon logic), is quite basic.

[OWA]

All in all your making a lot of calls while properly having no experience with any of the stuff that you are talking about.

Your assumption is actually really funny, because I've actually written a thesis for my Masters degree in Games Design (I can screenshot it to prove it if you don't believe me) about putting vehicles into UDK, which resulted in this video right here:

 

 

Basically, I used uscript and hated it and then came to the conclusion that Renegade is much easier to do what I want to do in.

 

Like what would this "incredibly complicated" logic in AR and TSR be ?

 

The bottom line is that a UE4 version is either never happening or atleast quite a few years away. So a UDK version could be something for in between. There could very well be two different teams, one working on UE4 and one working on UDK.

We've got rather a lot of different unique gameplay mechanics in both games, so I'll list a few.

 

All Projects

- Veterancy

- The Purchase Sidebar

- Flying infantry

 

Tiberian Sun: Reborn

- The Underground Logic

- The Mobile Sensor Array logic

- Deployable vehicles (like the tick tank, artillery and Juggernaut)

- Replenishable aircraft that make use of helipads to resupply

- Amphibious units

 

Apocalypse Rising

- Remote Controllable Vehicles

- Terror Drones

- Veterancy

- Flying Infantry

- Deployable Infantry (GI, Guardian GI)

- Deployable Aircraft (Siege Chopper)

- Minor and Major Weakpoints

- Reinforcement Bays (once the war factory/barracks has been destroyed players can use the reinforcement bay to buy units to stay in the game, this building does not count towards base destruction)

- Prism Towers focus ability

- Tesla Coil charging up with Tesla weapons in low power situations

- Mirage Tanks

- Prism Beam refraction

- Country-specific unit picker (Picks a random country at the start of each battle and grants units accordingly)

 

All of these features would be a terrible amount of effort to reimplement for very little gain to us. We already have all of these things working in Renegade, so why switch? There is the lure of a better toolset and better graphics sure, but I don't think that moving to the RenXDK even for an interim version would benefit us. We'd lose more time that would be better spent either on Renegade or on UE4.

 

However, if people want to come and adapt our games, then they are welcome to apply to join us. It's all about supplying the demand and if people demand it that much then they will come and make it happen.

 

In all fairness, you guys are around 3 years too late for me to be excited about this.

[Bayonetta]

Hey how do you actually get that Titan in Renegade X that server looks pretty populated..

[TeamWolf]

It looks like a test game or a random match.

[OWA]

Hey how do you actually get that Titan in Renegade X that server looks pretty populated..

They're using bots.

[Synaesthesia]

>All in all your making a lot of calls while properly having no experience with any of the stuff that you are talking about.

 

Some of us work in the industry and don't appreciate silly pissing contests about whose mod is better than whose. Your mod is neat. Good job on it. Please stop posting here only with the intention of trolling.

 

>I've actually written a thesis for my Masters degree in Games Design

 

To second this, my degree is a bachelor of fine arts in game art and design.

[Jerad2142]

Why is the biped top heavy walker leaning with the terrain? Does UDK not have the power to make proper mech physics? Or are you showing off that a normal tank can be animated like a mech like has been done in Renegade and many other games for years?

 

I see little point moving to UDK if its going to have us make the same hacks Renegade already does. It might be prettier, but why move from one dated engine to another.

[wolf]

Why is the biped top heavy walker leaning with the terrain? Does UDK not have the power to make proper mech physics? Or are you showing off that a normal tank can be animated like a mech like has been done in Renegade and many other games for years?

 

I see little point moving to UDK if its going to have us make the same hacks Renegade already does. It might be prettier, but why move from one dated engine to another.

 

Perhaps the servers won't be empty 90% of the time. That's a pretty good reason to move engines. :- )

[OWA]

Perhaps the servers won't be empty 90% of the time. That's a pretty good reason to move engines. :- )

The servers being empty has little to nothing to do with the engine imo. Exposure of the game as well as the balance of the game are way more important.

[Jerad2142]

 

Why is the biped top heavy walker leaning with the terrain? Does UDK not have the power to make proper mech physics? Or are you showing off that a normal tank can be animated like a mech like has been done in Renegade and many other games for years?

 

I see little point moving to UDK if its going to have us make the same hacks Renegade already does. It might be prettier, but why move from one dated engine to another.

 

Perhaps the servers won't be empty 90% of the time. That's a pretty good reason to move engines. :- )

 

[Einstein]

lol @ Jerad. Literally more people playing vanilla renegade than Renegade X.

[OWA]

 

 

Why is the biped top heavy walker leaning with the terrain? Does UDK not have the power to make proper mech physics? Or are you showing off that a normal tank can be animated like a mech like has been done in Renegade and many other games for years?

 

I see little point moving to UDK if its going to have us make the same hacks Renegade already does. It might be prettier, but why move from one dated engine to another.

 

Perhaps the servers won't be empty 90% of the time. That's a pretty good reason to move engines. :- )

 

yep.png

 

 

And so our point is proven.

[Jerad2142]

On a side note, EKT was the group that used to host Rp2's super successful server.

[Synaesthesia]

In all fairness, RenX's dead servers have more to do with RenX's management history being a complete debacle rather than dead servers being intrinsic to UDK games

[Bayonetta]

I can only play these games in bursts anyway. If they were some persistent unlocks though to work on, i'd imagine people would stick around.

[White Wolf]

....and so begins work on Tiberian Sun X!

[Jerad2142]

In all fairness, RenX's dead servers have more to do with RenX's management history being a complete debacle rather than dead servers being intrinsic to UDK games

Are you comparing this to the excellent management that EA has given Renegade?