Awesome APB 3.3.0.0 Changelog

[Pushwall]

 Red Alert: A Path Beyond Update Remember, remember, the fifth of November time when APB had updates? Yeah, sorry about that; the recruitment of a ton of new talent to the scripting team, as well as a bunch of sudden contributions from 2D and 3D artists, mean I have been very backed up with implementing all their work and making sure it... works, in addition to what I normally do. On top of that, my hand in this got delayed further by almost a week due to my computer suffering a PSU failure. But the long wait should be worth it, many bugs and performance issues have been squashed and we have 2 new units to play with. And there is hopefully more to come as well!

General

• Improved UI performance.
• Improved level loading times.
• Particle effects should have less lategame performance issues.
• Asynchronous texture loading to reduce stutter.
• Flight ceilings are now "soft" - you still can't ascend beyond a certain height, but there's nothing to scrape against, so you won't be slowed down and you won't get temporarily stuck if you try to bank. This is most important for planes who no longer need to worry about crashing into the flight ceiling - because of this, there isn't a warning when you approach the flight ceiling anymore.
• Entering/leaving scoped view for scoped weapons no longer causes your view to tilt up slightly.
• Using the camera change key in a vehicle will no longer toggle your infantry camera between third/first person.
• Your chosen vehicle camera will now be remembered if you exit and reenter the same vehicle.
• Alternate cameras for vehicles have been improved:
  • Position for alternate first-person/turret/close-up cameras now takes the vehicle's tilt into account, so you should be less likely to clip the camera through your own vehicle when looking up/down while on a slope.
  • Thanks to the above change, all trucks with interiors (Supply, Demo, MGG, MAA, Cargo) now have functional first-person cameras. Not particularly useful, but fun!
  • Turret cameras now pivot around the turret and not the body. This is especially handy for boats since their turret is so far from the centrepoint of their hull; now you can always see what you're aiming at.
  • First-person cameras for single-barrel vehicles are now slightly offset to the side, just like first-person infantry weapons.
• Fixed the physics issue where vehicles crossing complicated terrain (such as craters) were liable to tip onto their backsides.
• Simplified vehicle hitboxes.
• Bots driving vehicles no longer drive slower than players do. (This doesn't affect ore trucks - or shouldn't as I've lowered AI ore truck speed to try to keep them unchanged)
• Vehicles that cost more than 1200 credits now only give 240 combat credits (assuming 100% HP damage; repairs will obviously increase this) instead of the full 1/5th of their cost.
• Hitbeeps are a little louder, but now only one beep can play every 0.05 seconds. This means you will not be bombarded with a ton of hitbeeps at once when hitting something with the full spray of a shotgun.
• Kicken has made a spiffy new HUD featuring:
  • larger and more prominent radar and health/armour bars. (Radar may in future be accompanied by new radar icons.)
  • enhanced space for weapon names. Like Renegade/Reborn this relies on text strings, so now you'll know what weapons your vehicle has too - as well as if it has any secondary fires or needs to be activated by Q.
  • everything concentrated in one place. No longer do you need to dart your eyes between the lower left and lower right corner of your screen when checking ammo and health.
  • improved aesthetics in general.

Spoiler

 

 

Infantry Repairmen

• Clearing Charges have been replaced with the Shovel, which has the same purpose of getting mines and barricades out of the way, but isn't entirely the same tool as before:
  • Has infinite ammo, but has a much longer cooldown between uses - 6 seconds instead of 1.
  • Is on slot 5 and has a holstered model so its existence should be a bit more obvious (it'll show when holding the golden wrench)
  • Unique kill icon (and no way to mask it) should make it more clear that your minefields are being cleared.
  • Destroys all enemy mines within an unobstructed 10 metre radius from the tip of the shovel (instead of the Clearing Charge's 7.5 metre radius from where the charge lands). No fumbling around with odd throwing arcs, but you also essentially have a shorter range and can't take out mines through walls.
  • Damage to barricades depends on distance. At point blank range you do about 40% damage to hedgehogs per "swing" - near the maximum 10 metres you do hardly anything.
  • No, you cannot use it as a melee weapon. (Except in the same way you'd use Clearing Charges as a "melee weapon".)

Spoiler

• Repair Tool/Golden Wrench are no longer able to break windows.

 Flamethrower

• The old, out-of-place M2 flamethrower has been replaced with the LPO-50. Still a flamethrower, but it behaves differently:
  • Launches a stream of fire (10 projectiles over 1 second) instead of a single fireball. A bit closer to the real LPO's behaviour but not perfect. As a result it also needs a whole second to fire its full salvo instead of just one frame, so the user has to expose himself more when attacking. Extra projectiles also mean a lot more times and chances to apply the burn effect, so it is better at disrupting medic healing, and also a lot more chances at getting direct hits, which the weapon is now more reliant on for damage against infantry.
  • Direct damage per salvo up (70 -> 100)
  • Splash damage per salvo up (25 -> 35)
  • Splash radius down (8 -> 7m)
  • Direct damage multiplier to infantry up (0.2 -> 0.3)
  • Inaccuracy when standing/jogging increased (0 -> 0.5)
  • Inaccuracy when jumping increased (7.5 -> 10)
  • Projectile velocity up (50 -> 100m/s)
  • Time per salvo up (3 -> 4 seconds)
  • Splash damage no longer occurs if the shot reaches its maximum range without hitting anything.
  • Range up (80 -> 100m)

Spoiler

 Grenadier

• Splash radius up (7m -> 9m)

 Mechanic

• Health down (70 -> 60)

 Medic

• Health up (80 -> 90)
• Medic kit charge time down (2 -> 1 second)
• Medic kit cooldown time up (0.5 -> 2 seconds)
• Medic kit now affects other medics (but only 20%)
• Armour cache radius up (25 -> 30m)

 Officers

• Inaccuracy when crouched increased (0.25 -> 0.5)

 Rocket Soldiers

• Redeye/Strela range back up to 170m.

 Shotgunners

• Now have 16 projectiles instead of 10. They still do the same total damage as before, they're just more reliable.

 Tanya

• Colt damage up (25 -> 30)

 Volkov

• AP cannon now does an additional instant 2.5 fire damage whenever its burn effect sticks.
• Added new scopes courtesy of CMDBob.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Vehicles MRJ/Tesla Tank

• No longer has an uneven axle track, which was causing it to move forward/backward noticeably when turning on the spot.

 Ore Truck

• Price up (700 -> 1400)
• Airdrop price is now equal to its War Factory price instead of 50% higher (1050 -> 1400)

 Chrono Tank

• Chronoshift range up (250 -> 300m)
• Projectile velocity up (50 -> 150m)
• Projectile range up (105 -> 110m)
• Move speed down (8.6 -> 8m/s)
• Reload speed down (1.9 -> 2 seconds)
• Health down (350 -> 300)
• Armour class is now Mammoth instead of Light (combined with the health drop this makes it more vulnerable to most anti-tank weapons, but less vulnerable to Volkov and much less vulnerable to flamethrowers/small arms)
• Can move/fire immediately after a successful Chronoshift.
• Is invulnerable for 2 seconds after a successful Chronoshift.
• Now has a first-person alternate camera.

 Mammoth Tank

• Mammoth Tusk projectile velocity up (50 -> 75m)

 Phase Tank

• Projectile velocity up (50 -> 75m)

 Yak

• Damage received from BulletFMJ ammo (M16, AK-47, MP5) up (0.27 -> 0.3)
• Damage received from Artillery ammo (arty, V2) up (0.8 -> 1.2) - now dies in one shot from arty
• No longer has its own unit limit. (You might still run into the fairly stringent limit on total purchased aircraft though.)

 MiG

• Added to the game. As General Kukov suggested in the unit's introduction in RA1, it is a bomber - its missiles are strictly air-to-ground. Getting the missiles to hit Longbows in flight is very difficult due to their arc, and unlikely to result in a favourable engagement due to the MiG's vulnerability to return fire from the Longbow, so it should stick to attacking ground vehicles, boats and buildings. If you want to clear the skies, get a Yak.
• Unlike with a Yak, you should engage ground units from a high altitude so as to give the missiles time to home in on the target. Going in a bit lower than the flight ceiling can give the enemy less time to dodge, but go too low and you risk your missiles hitting the ground instead.
• If you're having a hard time acquiring lock-ons against small ground vehicles, use the alternate cameras (press F).
• Available on Tech Level 5 plane maps (Hostile Waters, Siege).

Spoiler

 

 

 

Navy

• Submarines now takes 3 seconds to gain submerged resistances instead of 2.
• Boats have a faster turn rate.
• Boats now have a "no damage" hitbox inside their normal hitbox, so subs surfacing inside them to avoid damage may also fail to inflict damage.
• Improved submarine submerge resistances again; anti-tank weapons now only deal 37.5% instead of 50%.

 Gunboat

• Health down (400 -> 300)
• Gun damage up (60 -> 70)
• Gun rate of fire down (per 1.25 seconds -> per 1.375 seconds)
• Range increased (110 -> 120m)
• Depth charge splash damage no longer occurs if the shot reaches its maximum range without hitting anything (so just use them against submerged subs or try to hit the seabed, don't try to catapult them too far)
• New model.

Spoiler

 Destroyer

• Role revised; is now more reminiscent of the Beta and RA Destroyers - it's more of a jack of all trades with anti-sub combat on par with the previous patch's Gunboat (depth charges travel as far as the Gunboat's, and in a straight fight with no misses and both parties noticing each other at the same time, the Destroyer will only barely lose to an Attack Sub - so it's disadvantaged but not helpless anymore like the old "not meant to be fighting subs" Dests), and the same top-tier anti-air capability it's always had, but slightly reduced effectiveness against infantry and buildings. True siege power is now in the hands of the Cruiser.
• Range decreased (170 -> 160m)
• New model.

Spoiler

 Cruiser

• Added to the game. As you might expect, it's a siege monster, but it can also fight submarines effectively from a distance, and may even be able to hit low-flying Yaks once in a while. A high minimum range, too low of a barrel angle to hit MiGs/Hinds which don't need to fly low to hit boats, and lack of depth charges prevents it from being unstoppable against properly-used subs/aircraft though.
• Rear turret must be manned by a passenger. (Rear turret is entered if you try to enter the vehicle while standing adjacent to the rear turret; entering from anywhere else will make you the pilot.) Taking a passenger with you gives you more bang for your buck and gives the whole vehicle less blind spots, but demands more coordination; it can still dish out competent damage even without a passenger though.
• Available on Tech Level 5 naval maps (Coastal Influence, Hostile Waters).

Spoiler

 Attack Sub

• Health down (400 -> 300)
• Torpedo velocity decreased (50 -> 40m/s)
• Torpedo damage up (90 -> 110)
• Torpedo rate of fire down (per 1.5 seconds -> per 1.75 seconds)
• Range increased (120 -> 140m)

 Missile Sub

• Health up (300 -> 375)
• Shore bombardment and anti-air capability are now split into two firing modes. Primary fire launches ballistic missiles for use against buildings, shoreline units, and slow/stationary boats. Unlike the standard missiles it had in previous versions, the ballistic missiles actually deal heavy damage to boats if you can hit them - but hitting them is the problem. Cruisers are fairly easy targets, but you may have a harder time hitting Destroyers, and against Gunboats you're a sitting duck. Secondary fire launches surface-to-air missiles.
• Range increased (170 -> 180m)

 

 

 

Buildings

• Buildings' script zones (spy/thief interactions, war factory killzone, naval unit purchases, ore truck dumping, airfield landing/refilling) are now part of the building instead of being manually placed in the editor. This not only means that their size and position is consistent for all maps and will never get screwed up again, but building zone placement is another load taken off of future mappers' backs.
• A lot of "inaccessible" areas on buildings (for example, the slanted parts and chimneys of the Refinery roof, and the crane of the Construction Yard) now cause instant death to infantry, so you can't plant flares on them on maps with aircraft+nukes.
• Tweaked building resistances to provide more incentive for attacking things other than the naval/war factories:
  • Repairs are about 5% less effective
  • Refill Pads take noticeably less time to kill (about 20% less time)
  • Construction Yards have had the same level of health reduction as Refill Pads, putting them on par with War Factories.
  • Barracks, Power Plant, Radar Dome, Missile Silo, Helipad, Ore Silo, and minor base defenses take slightly less time to kill (about 5% less time)
  • Refinery and Airfield take slightly longer to kill (about 7% more time)
  • War Factory, Naval Yard, Sub Pen take noticeably longer to kill (about 20% more time)
  • Naval weapons also take about 20% less time to kill buildings, so while their kill speed against naval factories and war factories isn't changed much, they are better at bringing down most inland structures.

 AA Gun

• Now fires bullets instead of instant laser beams. They'll still reliably hit aircraft though as they travel at the same speed as all other non-sniper bullets.

 Airfield

• Now refills all of a plane's ammo at once after 8 seconds, instead of partially refilling in 2 second increments (this was required due to the difference in ammo/magazines between the Yak and the MiG; using the old system would have let the MiG regain all its ammo in just 2 seconds)

 Allied Barracks

• Removed two purchase terminals (the ones that were kind of redundant cause they have another terminal right next to them) and their associated spawn points. So now the Allied barracks has the same number of spawn points that the Soviet barracks does.

 Construction Yard

• Improved vehicle collision around the front entrances. Minelayers and Rangers can now easily get over the "bumps" to the sides of the main gate.
• Is now affected by its own auto-repair. So in spite of the health drop it is still the toughest building, but not by much. (Of course, the more DPS your rush has the less this auto-repair matters.)

 Naval Factories

• The "Advanced" models are now the standard for all naval maps, and the old ones removed.
• Attacks that hit parts of the building that are more than 5 metres under the water surface no longer damage the building. (This includes C4.)
• Added ladders in the spawning/repair bays to allow infantry that fall into the water to save themselves.
• Fixed issue with (Advanced) Sub Pen where infantry would spaz out when aiming at certain sections of the floor.
• Opened underwater collision around the (Advanced) Naval Yard repair bay so that, in the rare event that Allies steal a sub, they can actually fit it into the repair bay and repair/sell it.
• Added passageways to the sides of the "main gate" of the (Advanced) Sub Pen, so it's possible for Soviets to go out to the front of the building (to defend from frontal boats, disarm flares, etc)

 Pillbox

• Instead of firing a "laser beam" that comes from between its two guns, it now fires projectile bullets from its two guns, and can rotate its barrels to hit targets that are sitting between them. (Anyone who's played Lunar Paradox and seen the "laser pillbox" may understand why we weren't able to take the two-barrel approach with the real pillbox before.)

 Power Plant

• Fixed falling through door frames.

 War Factory

• Can still produce AI Ore Trucks even after its destruction. So destroying it will not knock out two birds with one stone; you must destroy the Refinery in order to completely shut down the ore mining economy.
• Replaced side ladders leading to the roof with small elevators.
• Smoothed collision around roof windows, so you won't lose accuracy when walking onto them anymore.

 

 

Aesthetics

• Readded support for MSAA.
• LST now sinks when destroyed just like other naval units (but only when not near land).
• V2 Launcher no longer floats slightly above ground.
• Impact sounds for vehicles are now consistent with their armour class (light vehicles and aircraft = light metal, heavy/mammoth vehicles and seacraft = heavy metal)
• More glass parts of vehicles (such as headlights and tank viewports) now produce glass impact effects and leave lasting broken glass decals.
• The jagged bolts of Tesla weapons should no longer turn into lasers during times of low performance.
• Cinematic for reinforcement drops (Radar dome/Seamist) now moves at a more realistic speed.
• "On fire" sound for infantry is less obnoxious.
• Fixed some poor smoothing on various infantry models.
• Buoys are orange again! (A lighting mishap stripped them of their colour before.)
• The shoreline foam from Siege/Hostile Waters is now present on all maps with large bodies of water.
• The seaweed from Hostile Waters is now present on all naval maps.
• Civilian buildings with interiors have been spruced up somewhat with some KOTG house props, some new props by Ice, and less ancient textures.

Spoiler

• Construction Yard, Power Plant and Refinery have had their window frames redone.
• Power Plant and Refinery pipes have been upgraded to the War Factory ones.
• Refinery furnaces have been upgraded to the Power Plant ones.
• Construction Yard crane mode has been upgraded to the Advanced Naval one.
• Building pipes now have supports.
• Barracks and Refinery now have shelves with more props.

Spoiler

• Refinery ore piles now also contain dirt.
• Refinery chimneys now use a yellow concrete texture, similar to how they were portrayed in the RA1 sidebar icon.
• Power Plant roofs are now a flat brown concrete instead of reusing the brick wall texture.
• Missile Silo now has desert (Zama) and snow/urban (Hostile Waters, North by Northwest, Siege Soviet) variants
• Service Depot has a new texture by Kicken.
• Tesla Coil no longer has electric effects during low power.
• Building glass is now reflective like vehicle glass.
• Damaged buildings now emit smoke as well as fire.
• Damaged building fire is no longer silent.
• Auxiliary buildings now have damage fire/smoke/alarms and death smoke.

 

Maps

• Reduced rocks on various maps.
• Flight ceiling height has been made consistent across all maps - now they are all 75m above the main play area. (For Ridge War this just means the middle of the map.) This means Guard Duty (125), Siege (120) and Hostile Waters (110) have gotten a considerable reduction in flight ceiling height, while Pacific Threat (50), Ridge War (60) and To the Core (65) have gotten an increase.
• Large bodies of water on non-naval maps are now treated as solid for naval units (just in case admins decide to have some fun). There's no shoreline blockers though.

Coastal Influence

• Fixed War Factory construction paths.

Hostile Waters

• Islands and base have been remade to reduce travel time and put more focus on attacking buildings besides just the naval yard/sub pen.
• Income is now a flat 4 credits per second; 2 of this is from a Gem Silo, and 2 is from the Advanced Naval building (so the flow of income can't be stopped completely).
• Removed Barracks, refill pads and Radar Dome.
• Added Missile Silo.
• Soviets have an airfield instead of helipad/SD.
• Capturable strucures no longer exist.
• You gain an additional 700 credits once the jukebox starts up, granting almost immediate access to the Destroyer/Missile Sub, since Gunboats/Attack Subs don't really serve much purpose without them on a map with noticeable shoreline defenses. (We weren't able to do per-map starting credits so this is the closest thing you'll get; please kindly donate to people who join in the middle of the match.)
• Icebergs are now smaller, more spread out, and inaccessible to infantry. (Unless you use a heli to land on them, but that's an Allied-only option and they have no infantry that can damage submerged subs, so there's not really much point in doing so except binoc scouting.)
• Visuals for the base islands are incomplete; this is because I want to test how well the new base layout/distance actually works before spending more time on it. If it tests well, the map will see visual upgrades in the future.

Lunar Paradox

• Landing pads no longer cause free aim to freak out.

Metro

• Mine limit down (30 -> 20)

North by Northwest

• Fixed drowning damage being applied from higher than the standard -1.5m depth.
• Terrain around service depots is more even.
• Improved accessibility for Soviet WF walls.

Pacific Threat

• Raised moon height so the sun halo doesn't show up through the water.

Siege

• Downgraded defences covering front entrance; Allies no longer have a Gap Generator, and Soviets only have a Flame Tower instead of Tesla Coil.
• Replaced Power Plant with Missile Silo. (Would have just added the silo without removing the PP, but there's not really room to add more buildings into these bases especially since super cramped bases = too easy for a nuke to kill everything).
• Shifted walls at Allied side entrance around so that the way in is better covered against chinooks.
• Shortened the cliff at the Soviet side entrance to make the route more open to Allied attack.
• Removed Soviet refill pads (they're compensated by the airfield anyway).

Zama

• Reduced amount of ore rocks/gems in the resource patches because it was quite ridiculous compared to other maps.
• Made mudslide slightly less steep.
• Fixed backface in mudslide.

[blurb]I assume everyone has been on the edge of their seats waiting for this update? Any questions? ...Good. Give 'em hell, boys! (And don't forget to read the changelog.)[/blurb]

[thumb]thumb_apb.5.png[/thumb]

[blurb]I assume everyone has been on the edge of their seats waiting for this update? Any questions? ...Good. Give 'em hell, boys! (And don't forget to read the changelog. When you have time. It's a big one.)[/blurb]

[Raap]

What a lovely little patch.

[moonsense715]

That changelog was quite a read, good job!!  

[VERTi60]

17 minutes ago, Raap said:

What a lovely little patch.

[NodGuy]

That’s bloody awesome! Nice work to everyone involved. I hope I have some time to play in the future to check it out. 

[Pushwall]

3.3.0.1

• Hostile Waters now ends when a naval factory dies

3.3.0.2

• Fixed a client crash when changing maps.

[TIberiumGhost]

Looking forward to playing this update.

[Kicken]

If anyone has any comments on the new HUD, I more than welcome the feedback! I plan on improving it further.

[Pyryle]

ooh new models

Looks like I have some work to do on the classic colors pack once again...

[Pushwall]

Okay, so it's known that the HUD is a bit overbearing on smaller resolutions (and apparently even at normal ones) and the MiG's firing mechanics don't translate well to a live environment (except against boats which are large enough to reliably keep a lock on). I'll soon be looking at a better way to handle the MiG firing, and next patch we'll be pushing a slightly smaller HUD by default, and an even smaller one and a larger one (i.e. the current one) as optional downloads on the download section if the new size isn't right for you.

[VERTi60]

Imho the previous HUD we had was good enough, compact and not everything at one place.

Migs are really vulnerable to bullet fire, esp. apc can kill a MIG sooner before it gets 2nd lock. It would be cool to fire all missiles at once too.

[des1206]

How do we think about the difference between the Mig, Yak and the Hind in terms of when is the most optimal scenario to use each?

[KevinLancaster]

When you fall under the Naval Yard, you end up walking on an invisible plane just under the surface of the water, unlike the Sub Pen which has an actual floor.

Is it possible for the Sub Pen doors to open up to make entering and exiting with subs easier? The doors seem to just be a decorative obstacle as is.

[Raptor29aa]

10 minutes ago, KevinLancaster said:

Is it possible for the Sub Pen doors to open up to make entering and exiting with subs easier? The doors seem to just be a decorative obstacle as is.

Fun Fact: those aren’t doors they are blast shields, and without them your sub can and will be blown up before you have the opportunity to leave the dock.

[KevinLancaster]

They don't have to be removed, they could slide open temporarily when you get near them like the doors on the Naval Yard.

[Raap]

Subs exit under them, and you're not supposed to camp that area, just like you're not supposed to camp the allied naval spawn bay.

They help cover an angle from attacks, it used to be too easy to camp a sub pen with ships. Kind of the whole point as to why I redid those naval buildings ~2 years ago. 

The invisible geometry and floating ladders does seem weird, I think falling to your death makes more sense. It's even a bit of a maze down there with invisible walls everywhere.

Edit: I think you might be able to place flares down there as well. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Raap

[Pushwall]

1 hour ago, Raap said:

Edit: I think you might be able to place flares down there as well. 

You shouldn't be able to, on HW literally the entire map below sea level except the area around the CYs is a no-flare zone.

Falling to your death "makes more sense" but is it better for gameplay to have to worry about being delayed from entering your boat by 20-60 seconds (and also blocking other people from buying the same boat) if you happen to do poorly on the collision lottery?

"Floating ladders"? All of them are quite clearly attached to something.

I'll be sure to put something in the underwater walkable area, maybe a grate.

9 hours ago, VERTi60 said:

Imho the previous HUD we had was good enough, compact and not everything at one place.

But you had to squint to read it on any modern resolution.

9 hours ago, VERTi60 said:

Migs are really vulnerable to bullet fire, esp. apc can kill a MIG sooner before it gets 2nd lock. It would be cool to fire all missiles at once too.

Air unit in "vulnerable to anti-air unit" shocker. Fire all missiles at once? I think there are enough things that only need one shot to kill arties and make it pointless to try using them, don't you?

[VERTi60]

38 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

But you had to squint to read it on any modern resolution.

Well now there are complains about smaller res having too much of the hud on screen, so there's always an issue. Modern Hud displays are small and usually don't concentrate on one place so you have more visible playing screen instead.

 

Quote

Air unit in "vulnerable to anti-air unit" shocker. Fire all missiles at once? I think there are enough things that only need one shot to kill arties and make it pointless to try using them, don't you?

Why is APC suppose to be dedicated anti air? Shouldn't that be the job for rockets? APC should be a mid anti air support if anything. It can also carry additional rockets as passengers. 

Thing is that the current Mig is not able to kill anything at all. Even that 1 arty unit would at least make some sense for it's price you invest to fly Mig that can be easily shot down before acquiring lock. Even though Migs handle better than Yaks and are quite faster, it still seems that Yak has greater firepower and potential which doesn't make much sense.

[Pushwall]

1 hour ago, VERTi60 said:

Why is APC suppose to be dedicated anti air? Shouldn't that be the job for rockets? APC should be a mid anti air support if anything. It can also carry additional rockets as passengers.

APC being anti-air and mammoth-armoured was a decision made about a year ago to give the Allies more options to respond to hinds/yaks (beforehand it was just rocket soldiers, rocket soldiers and rocket soldiers), have a better anti-infantry option for engaging Volkovs, provide a bit more synergy with the "infantry carrier" role (Hinds are one of the biggest threats towards infantry, so make the infantry carrier resistant to and able to deal with said threat! ... though this still didn't encourage its use as a carrier) and distinguish it from the Ranger since there was hardly any purpose to the unit before this change:

• there's not much point in trying to haul around a ton of infantry in one APC - unless you just so happen to have spare APCs sitting around while your War Factory is dead. (Maybe it could become a Radar Dome airdrop option to encourage this, but what would the Soviets get on their airdrop to balance it out? Or maybe it'd replace the Medium Tank?)
• APC and Ranger could both outrange all infantry except Kapitans/RPGs back then so the Ranger's weaker durability was not a dealbreaker for hunting down infantry in the open.
• APC is one of those units that are MUCH more dangerous in the Soviets' hands so you absolutely don't want to let them take it - meaning an APC infantry rush is pretty much forced to leave one person in the APC to wait or get it killed just so that you don't end up turning the game against yourself (unless you're killing the barracks or Soviets already lost it). This also means Tanyas don't want to use it as a solo chariot, which they can do with LTs/Rangers without risking the game.
• it's easier to hit and to notice than a Ranger; sure it has more health but Allies don't care too much about the max health of their units because of mechanics

Nowadays the choice is showing its age a bit; Volkovs being changed to snipers instead of shorter-ranged everymen means you want to use APCs over Rangers against them anyway due to the armour difference, the addition of Chrono Tanks and their subsequent armour class upgrade means the Allies now have yet another tank that can pull anti-air duty, not to mention Phase Tanks also do pretty well at mowing down planes (but lose against Hinds). APCs might still want to be okay against planes because of Guard Duty where Chrono Tanks aren't an option, but they could stand to be a little weaker in this regard possibly. Maybe I could lower their max turret tilt so that they can easily hit low-flying Yaks but not high-flying MiGs (which don't exist on Guard Duty).

 

1 hour ago, VERTi60 said:

Thing is that the current Mig is not able to kill anything at all.

Tell me something I don't know  I already said I'm aware its firing mechanics did not translate to live gameplay well and I'm going to be looking into an alternative, and letting it fire all its missiles at once is not going to be a good alternative because it means you only have one chance to line up a lock-on instead of two.

[VERTi60]

19 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

APC being anti-air and mammoth-armoured was a decision made about a year ago to give the Allies more options...

It's a good thing APC is support for anti air but shouldn't be dedicated anti air. In current state the APC is just too versatile making other units weaker in comparission. It's not really a rant for APC it's just that it seems it can beat the soviet "dedicated anti armor bomber" very easily, but would probably struggle more against a Yak (e.g. can't even mech it when under fire from Yak).

 

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Nowadays the choice is showing its age a bit; Volkovs being changed to snipers instead of everymen means you want to use APCs over Rangers against them anyway due to the armour difference, the addition of Chrono Tanks and their subsequent armour class upgrade means the Allies now have yet another tank that can pull anti-air duty, not to mention Phase Tanks also do pretty well at mowing down planes (but lose against Hinds). APCs might still want to be okay against planes because of Guard Duty where Chrono Tanks aren't an option, but they could stand to be a little weaker in this regard possibly. Maybe I could lower their max turret tilt so that they can easily hit low-flying Yaks but not high-flying MiGs.

Lowering their turret tilt is actually good idea for balance, but maybe too restricting for players? Maybe worth giving it a try but I would much rather have a slower turret rotation so that you can't really keep up with faster air units passing by but you could target them if they are approaching you straight on. Or perhaps a combination of two.

 

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Tell me something I don't know  I already said I'm aware its firing mechanics did not translate to live gameplay well and I'm going to be looking into an alternative, and letting it fire all its missiles at once is not going to be a good alternative because it means you only have one chance to line up a lock-on instead of two.

Yea but if you can get a successful lock once, why not opting for firing all missiles at once so you don't have to risk throwing away the other salvo? Getting a successful lock twice in order to kill something is currently almost impossible.

And even if the lock will always be hard to acquire, at least it would make the unit a high risk high reward mechanic instead of being outclassed by it's lower tier/cost alternative.

[Pushwall]

4 minutes ago, VERTi60 said:

Lowering their turret tilt is actually good idea for balance, but maybe too restricting for players?

Hey, if they can deal with the whole line of MBTs only having 17.5 degrees of vertical tilt (which was still enough for Mediums to hit Hinds scraping the flight ceiling on Ridge War previously!) they can deal with APCs having something smaller than 60 degrees.

[VERTi60]

1 minute ago, Pushwall said:

Hey, if they can deal with the whole line of MBTs only having 17.5 degrees of vertical tilt (which was still enough for Mediums to hit Hinds scraping the flight ceiling on Ridge War previously!) they can deal with APCs having something smaller than 60 degrees.

I always find a ridge to tilt my tanks in order to shoot choppers, it looks a bit silly and now imagining that doing with apc too

[Raap]

I'm pretty sure I at some point suggested more role and visual clarity for the APC, specifically to give it a single-row anti-air mounted top gun, or a triple-barrel rotary variant for more rapid fire anti-air. 

I still don't think the APC screams "anti-air unit" and it needs some work ideally, but unfortunately creating weapons isn't my field.

Lastly I guess we always could revive the idea of a Mobile AA Gun vehicle - although it needs a new model, so again, more art work that would need to be done by someone.

[Pushwall]

5 minutes ago, Raap said:

Lastly I guess we always could revive the idea of a Mobile AA Gun vehicle - although it needs a new model, so again, more art work that would need to be done by someone.

It's probably not needed; the introduction of the Chrono Tank gives Allies another proper AA vehicle and adding yet more ground vehicles for them is just bloat. I'm fine with tweaking the APC so it can't really be effectively used against MiGs (maybe a bit of a nerf against Hinds too) but it should probably continue to be able to fight Yaks due to Guard Duty, and it probably doesn't need a new weapon to look convincing for this because anything with enough projectile velocity can hit a low-flying Yak and warplanes weren't exactly known for their armour.

[Raap]

Just now, Pushwall said:

It's probably not needed; the introduction of the Chrono Tank gives Allies another proper AA vehicle and adding yet more ground vehicles for them is just bloat. I'm fine with tweaking the APC so it can't really be effectively used against MiGs but it should probably continue to be able to fight Yaks, and it probably doesn't need a new weapon to look convincing for this because anything with enough projectile velocity can hit a low-flying Yak and warplanes weren't exactly known for their armour.

Locking it back to a ground focused unit is fine by me, you're right, the Chrono Tank (and to some extent, the Phase Tank), do seem to serve the AA role well enough right now.

Still, if you do ever find artist budget, I wouldn't be against a more distinct APC top gun, the current one is so small and feels too similar to Rangers and Captains from a gameplay perspective. Could be why so few people ever buy it, its just not a very exciting unit. 

[Pushwall]

10 minutes ago, Raap said:

Could be why so few people ever buy it, its just not a very exciting unit. 

Nowadays it's not a rarely seen unit as a result of all the changes to it making it more viable against Volkovs, air units and small arms users. And even despite this the Ranger still sees use (though not as much) due to downsides to the APC that are still present (being bigger and slower and easier to spot, not being expendable, slightly more expensive though that doesn't matter much, having worse DPS against light vehicles and base defenses). That first-dump Ranger coil rush last night makes it pretty evident that the Ranger still has its place; a Light Tank or APC rush could have gotten our objective too but would have made it harder to afford stuff after our death and would have been more likely to be spotted ahead of time.

[Raap]

7 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

Nowadays it's not a rarely seen unit as a result of all the changes to it making it more viable against Volkovs, air units and small arms users. And even despite this the Ranger still sees use (though not as much) due to downsides to the APC that are still present (being bigger and slower and easier to spot, not being expendable, slightly more expensive though that doesn't matter much, having worse DPS against light vehicles and base defenses).

Sorry let me clarify what I meant; With "not exciting" I wasn't trying to discredit the small roles handed to it via game logic. I purely meant that in terms of audio/visuals the weapon looks and plays too much like similar weaponry, even if game logic allows it to do other things.

Just my opinion, anyway!

[OWA]

The new changes to the camera logic make the APC even better than before imho. I find it really enjoyable to play with.  

[des1206]

How come the destroyer looks like it's made of lego? Especially the chimney. 

Can we make the Mig missiles disappear after it fires them?

On rangers: rangers/mechanic combo is excellent mid/late game to drive around repairing allied tanks while staying out of harm's way.

On maps with both Hind and Migs, I wonder if people will use Yaks at all?

Edited November 6, 2018 by des1206

[VERTi60]

14 minutes ago, des1206 said:

How come the destroyer looks like it's made of lego? Especially the chimney. 

Even though the current model still looks miles advanced than the old one, I kinda agree it could look a bit better.

Destroyer could use a bit more texture detail work too, some of the parts seem to not have any texture on it, all the parts seem to have plastic look as you've put it. Middle deck could use wooden floor for example, the hull could be darker. Maybe adding some animations on radars or light work.

I also would like to have the RA1 render missile turret if possible:

 

14 minutes ago, des1206 said:

Can we make the Mig missiles disappear after it fires them?

+1 Should work after some script work is done on it I suppose

 

14 minutes ago, des1206 said:

On maps with both Hind and Migs, I wonder if people will use Yaks at all?

Currently Yaks are much better for their price, although harder to fly. Migs would need to coordinate a lot more and attack bigger targets to be any efficient.