A Path Beyond Civilian Technology Centre

[CMDBob]

So, I was poking round the really old APB 9935 gmax building source files, and I noticed there was a civilian technology centre model that was half finished. So, I decided to finish it.

The exterior of the center.

The entrance to the facility. Simple, but it works.

One of the research domes, with a couple of computer(?) stations.

The largest dome, still under construction.

The last dome, with just a few crates and a catwalk.

The central atrium, with stacks of crates, and the roof access ladder.

Going up...

The roof. Be careful not to fall off!

Finally, a view from the top, complete with a look into the domes!

I've attached the 3ds max source files (the building itself, plus a proxy and edge for cutting into the ground), as well as the two textures that are missing from APB. (Just the metal floor on the roof and the actual dome texture.) They're all in one archive.

civtechnologycentre.7z

In terms of what this could be used for, I'm not sure. It's big, sure, but not too massive. (It's a little bigger than 2 x 2 war factories, but the inside is a fair bit smaller than that.) It could make the centrepiece of a TDM map (with extra ramps to the roof added, and maybe one of the domes removed and a ramp up there...) or an objective in a mission map (defend/assault the tech center? Capture the tech center and hold it for 5-10 minutes to win? The possibilities are endless...) or, it could just be a big prop. (Capture it to unlock the ability to produce a special trooper/tank?) Anyway, it's there for people to use.

Edited May 29, 2017 by CMDBob

[Einstein]

Hey that looks really good! I was wondering when this thing would get finished

[JigglyJie]

You know, back in RA1 (that was my first C&C game) I always thought it was some fancier radar dome due to the similarities it had shown. I know it's unlikely to happen and probably shouldn't but a recent change locking Volkov/Tanya at the radar dome reminded me of something. Since it's very unlikely that both the Allied and Soviet tech centres are to be implemented in the way as we know it, I thought, why not the shared technology centre act as both the radar dome AND the prerequisite for Tanya and Volkov? Like I say, don't take that too seriously, was just a random thought I had.

Anyway this would be neat if the technology centre were to make an appearance, like Seamist but with the Soviets defending it or something.

[CMDBob]

55 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Hey that looks really good! I was wondering when this thing would get finished

Thanks. I might have a go at upgrading the hospital, too, as that's in the 9935 files. The hospital actually seems harder, really, as it's in a much later stage of development, and there's textures that are totally missing and I'll have to work out replacements for. (also, I think the hospital is bigger than this!)

45 minutes ago, JigglyJie said:

You know, back in RA1 (that was my first C&C game) I always thought it was some fancier radar dome due to the similarities it had shown. I know it's unlikely to happen and probably shouldn't but a recent change locking Volkov/Tanya at the radar dome reminded me of something. Since it's very unlikely that both the Allied and Soviet tech centres are to be implemented in the way as we know it, I thought, why not the shared technology centre act as both the radar dome AND the prerequisite for Tanya and Volkov? Like I say, don't take that too seriously, was just a random thought I had.

Anyway this would be neat if the technology centre were to make an appearance, like Seamist but with the Soviets defending it or something.

Yeah, a Soviet Seamist with this being the objective could be rather fun.

 

There's some interesting things in the old 9935 building pack, really, like a few alternate layouts for building interiors like the War Factory, which has 3 different interiors in the pack (the one we know and love, minus the stairs which came later, and 2 variants, which both have underground sections, but they're both very different), as well as an alternate refinery interior that had stairs (and a really awkward set of stairs to the downstairs "tunnel" area), plus a few other bits and bats (like the old ice covered warehouse from Fjord, as well as the aforementioned Tech Center and Hospital.)

EDIT:

Made a big whoopsie, had the old 9935 bunkerwall texture in my APB dir. New shot of the exterior with the proper texture:

(I'd have edited the first post, but there's like an hour timer on it. oops.)

Edited May 29, 2017 by CMDBob

[Raptor29aa]

Excellent work. And who knows maybe it could supply AA trucks or something. Or have a refill terminal -A tech center has endless potential for Easter eggs (like an invisible supply truck or Sam truck)

As for the hospital I always felt it was a little too massive. It was awesome though. It was used to be in a map, but I forget which and it slowly regenerated the health of anyone who walked inside.

[moonsense715]

Epic work there, keep it up

[Jeod]

It needs some more props on the inside. Doesn't feel like a tech center yet. Other than that, good work!

[Raap]

Ah yes, that thing. I believe @Synaesthesia made it a decade ago for Renegade in one of his levels.

As for your screenshots, I can tell you that you have more breathing room than you may believe you have. You can - and should, given a building like this is a center of attention - absolutely add more props and technical elements to it. Providing you don't go overboard on unique meshes of course, but that you already know!

You can also improve the texture scaling a lot more, a number of your textures are very stretched (see the ceiling trim and walkways). You might want to avoid using Renegade textures as well due to their low resolutions and general easy of recognition. Additionally, don't be scared about adding additional detail work with the textures. I personally enjoy doing that and always get a little carried away with it, often also creating new textures for specific parts. As for the exterior, you ran into the same problem I had with Siege's castle wall; Making large man-made objects not appear extremely tiled, and the only solution is increased texture variation and UVW usage (and some other means to break the line of sight, I personally used scaffolding supports and trees for this on Siege).

The domes could also be replaced from a low poly sphere with a texture, to an actual 3D frame with glass in between. Given that this is a prominent part of your building, it helps to put that extra work into it, it'll look a lot better for it (plus you only have to do the model once and then copy it two additional times, how's that for cost efficient development!).

Finally, the use of lighting is not proper. You need to draw the wireframe in order to draw the shadows, and you're probably using a too large light preset and will need a custom sized one for that room (you're probably using the light post one). I cannot tell you any more without seeing the actual wireframe, but the floor has too few polygons at least, plus the sole verticy is obstructed from being solved in a desirable way.

I've had a lot of experience working on man-made objects in my APB contributions, trust me when I say, to get everything right on W3D you need quite a bit of patience (the Advanced Naval Yard and Siege castle walls took a fair while for example).

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Raap
Coffee deficiency

[Jeod]

For texture reference:

[NodGuy]

That's awesome. I hope to see it in a map one day.

[CMDBob]

Yeah, I did think some of the textures were too tiled. I'll probably end up re-texturing and using different, less obviously tiled textures, as well as bumping up the vertex count for the large, flat polygons. I've made a couple of "new" textures that match the colours of the building from the render, and I've remodelled the domes, so they're actual polygon domes.

The main issue is props, as there's not that many "sciencey" props in APB. Hell, there's not that many props as is. I'll see what I can do, though.

Put a quick snap of the "renovated" exterior with the new domes. (I still need to subdivide the mesh for better lighting...)

Edited May 29, 2017 by CMDBob

[Raap]

Don't 100% copy reference assets from 1977. If they had the capacity to be more detailed back then, they would have.

For example, that little triangle on the middle of the roof, likely intended to be there for a service elevator, does not need those sharp corners; A little rounding would make it look a lot better.

But good progress! When you finished it, all you need to do is create 600% the added space nearby the building and you got yourself an APB level!

Edit: If you actually want to eventually make a level, I can explain you in detail how to make your tech center capturable while still being terrain-baked.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Raap

[NodGuy]

9 hours ago, CMDBob said:

Yeah, I did think some of the textures were too tiled. I'll probably end up re-texturing and using different, less obviously tiled textures, as well as bumping up the vertex count for the large, flat polygons. I've made a couple of "new" textures that match the colours of the building from the render, and I've remodelled the domes, so they're actual polygon domes.

The main issue is props, as there's not that many "sciencey" props in APB. Hell, there's not that many props as is. I'll see what I can do, though.

Put a quick snap of the "renovated" exterior with the new domes. (I still need to subdivide the mesh for better lighting...)

It's beautiful, and it looks like a Nod symbol without the scorpion tail on the roof.

[FRAYDO]

Looking great! I'm all for an objective map with the Soviets on the defensive.

If the building is to be considered a prison as it was in TD, the Soviets could have captured Einstein and the Allies must break him free before he dies.

If the building is to be considered a true tech centre, the Soviets are conducting their Iron Curtain research and must hold out for its completion while the Allies assault the base. A neat ending to this too would be at the end of the mission timer if the Soviets are successful in defending then the Soviets are given like 15 seconds of Iron Curtain at the end, playing out as an interactive cinematic such as when Seamist ends in Allied victory.

[CMDBob]

I've been taking the advice into account, and I've done some renovation to two of the domes, one into a computer center and the other into a bit of a chemistry lab. I've changed a good amount of the textures, to make it feel more like a clean, clinical lab.

Still debating what to do with the last dome. I was thinking some sort of sciency radar... gizmo, maybe iron-curtainy, or a prison block area. Could potentially do both, for different purposes. The building looks more sciency at any rate. (It's hard to fill buildings with stuff, especially if you have to make it all.)

 

[Jeod]

The interior design would vary based on faction, which is why there's an Allied Tech Center, Soviet Tech Center, and then this civilian one. Civilians would not be combining chemistry and data warehouses, I'd think.

[Ice]

Looking good so far! I agree with Jeod in that it would be best if the building had a few alternate interiors/prop-sets for specific purposes (science lab, computer centre, prison, etc.) rather than trying to combine everything into one.

Also it would be cool if we could replace some the old computer models in there with some more detailed vintage-style ones, like this one from a blog posted years ago:

 

One could also look at real-world computers from the era for inspiration, such as the Whirlwind 1:

[CMDBob]

(quick note, I wrote the majority of this a couple of days ago, but forgot to post. ah well.)

Yeah, I'm more mashing them together as this "layout" is just to get some of the rooms all laid out and some of the props (such as the chemistry workbench) tested. (Testing did reveal some major alpha sorting issues with the glassware on the chemistry workbench, as they were fully transparent. Got rid of the alpha transparency, unfortunately. Ah well...)

I'll probably do 3-4 variants of the interior (data vault, chemical lab, iron curtain lab and prison). For now, just want to get a few more props made up (such as a desk) and that. 

----------------

Since I wrote this, I've been working on a new set of "mainframe" props, similar to the untextured wip props shown above. I've got a quick W3DView screenshot of one of them. It's not as detailed as the above props, but it'll do for my purposes. Looks a bit better than the existing one, at any rate!

Edited June 2, 2017 by CMDBob

[Ice]

Looking good so far! It will be interesting to see how it all turns out!

Computers and electronics can be really fun to design as props, especially old-fashioned ones since their typically clunky and instrumemt-laden designs can give them an interesting and dynamic appearance. I linked a few more images below if you're looking for further inspiration:

[CMDBob]

3 minutes ago, Ice said:

Looking good so far! It will be interesting to see how it all turns out!

Computers and electronics can be really fun to design as props, especially old-fashioned ones since their typically clunky and instrumemt-laden designs can give them an interesting and dynamic appearance. I linked a few more images below if you're looking for further inspiration:

Yeah, it's handy to have inspiration. I've taken a little bit of inspiration from Team Fortress 2, as it's computers full of blinkenlights and such are very useful for ideas. I've got 4 of the big mainframe towers planned, the A unit which is just the plain box, a B unit which has a reel to reel drive on it, a C unit which will have some screens, and a keyboard attached, and a D unit which will be lots of blinking lights and such. (I plan to have some fun with the blinking lights and make them flash in patterns and that, using UV scrolling and detail textures for the brightness of the lights...) I might go and make some half height units too, and a console and that, in the same style. (Then, some simple desks as well, for the "atrium" type room.)

[Ice]

Nice. Looking forward to seeing it

Out of curiosity, are you going with the classic rounded-square screens or the really old-fashioned circular displays seen on early televisions and some computer systems of the era? It would be cool to see some of those on something as well, especially since the RA1 menu background features one (presumably a radar screen due to the grid lines, although they were used in some early computers for other purposes as well).

The Whirlwind 1 image I linked earlier appears to have three; a large one at the far right and what appears to be two smaller secondary ones towards the middle and left)

 

[CMDBob]

Well, got the C unit made for the data center. Was quite fun to make, as well. Got some nice scanlines on the screens, as well as a lovely reflective effect. Just got the two other units I want to do (the blinkenlights unit, and a round, radar/oscilliscope screened unit) and then a few other ancillary props, like desks and that. Then layout of the computer center version, then onto the chemlab version with lots of barrels, vats of goo and workbenches. Then, I want to make an Iron Curtain research center version, which will combine elements from both the computer and chemlab centers, as well as a mini-iron-curtain in the largest dome.

[Raap]

1 hour ago, CMDBob said:

Well, got the C unit made for the data center. Was quite fun to make, as well. Got some nice scanlines on the screens, as well as a lovely reflective effect. Just got the two other units I want to do (the blinkenlights unit, and a round, radar/oscilliscope screened unit) and then a few other ancillary props, like desks and that. Then layout of the computer center version, then onto the chemlab version with lots of barrels, vats of goo and workbenches. Then, I want to make an Iron Curtain research center version, which will combine elements from both the computer and chemlab centers, as well as a mini-iron-curtain in the largest dome.

 

If you want an idea for an Iron Curtain test; Hook up a Soviet vehicle to the machine, one that has new mesh wrapper around it created via up-scaling per element, flip the faces, and apply a red emissive effect to it, and the result will be a red outline on the edges of the vehicle from any angle a player views it from. That's the same method I once experimented with to create an actual iron curtain effect (this was for an old version of Siege), the gameplay was dropped but the effect worked.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Raap

[CMDBob]

That's a good idea, and I'll probably end up doing that. It'll be a slight squeeze, but nothing too bad. 

Blinkenlights! As I said on the discord, it's just one mesh for all the 32 lights, with a detail texture set to Scale and using the Step UV mapping, to go through a sheet with the brightnesses for the lamps. 8 different patterns, so 4 lights per pattern.

They look quite good actually in game, too!

[Ice]

8 hours ago, CMDBob said:

Well, got the C unit made for the data center. Was quite fun to make, as well. Got some nice scanlines on the screens, as well as a lovely reflective effect. Just got the two other units I want to do (the blinkenlights unit, and a round, radar/oscilliscope screened unit) and then a few other ancillary props, like desks and that.

Looking really nice so far! Looking forward to seeing the complete unit and hope to see a lot of the tape units. Out of curiosity, are you planning on animating those?

EDIT: Didn't see your latest post until after posting mine lol. Anyway that looks awesome! I'm curious as to what the oscilloscope-like unit will look like. Looking forward to it! Now we just need another 1-2 rows of tape units somewhere lol.

[Raap]

Very goot computar, yes!

[Ice]

It will be interesting to see the Iron Curtain research lab  Personally I hope the Iron Curtain is really early-prototype looking, with various cables and other components jerry-rigged together and kinda sprawled around the lab along with various old-fashioned science-looking stuff, but with the overall lab still laid out in a (somewhat) realistic way. Aesthetic inspiration could be taken from various WWII works of fiction as well as historical research of the time period.

Regarding space concerns, it would probably be best to use the Soviet Ranger or some other small vehicle as the test subject, or even a piece of a base defence or something.

[NodGuy]

2 hours ago, CMDBob said:

That's a good idea, and I'll probably end up doing that. It'll be a slight squeeze, but nothing too bad. 

If possible I suggest using the Mammoth Tank, if not then use the Heavy Tank. Either way it would look very awesome, especially so if you make it "really early-prototype looking" as Ice mentioned above.

[CMDBob]

I've worked something out for the Iron Curtain effect and it's test vehicle:

(it's just a Tesla tank without the Tesla dome. Perfect for filling full of scientific equipment for monitoring the Iron Curtain effect.)

[Ice]

1 hour ago, NodGuy said:

If possible I suggest using the Mammoth Tank, if not then use the Heavy Tank. Either way it would look very awesome, especially so if you make it "really early-prototype looking" as Ice mentioned above.

Personally the Mammoth is one of the very last things I'd test it on; Realistically the scientists would have to start out applying the Iron Curtain to small simple objects, and work out the various problems and technical issues which would inevitably arise with such an advanced technology, before proceeding to larger and more complex stuff.

EDIT: The Tesla Tank/MRJ chassis seems like a fairly appropriate testbed.