Games [GAME OVER] RA:APB-themed Mafia Game V (Big Fireworks Edition)

[Alstar]

Very well, i stand corrected. Guess i understood the role wrong.

[Jeod]

ChopBam

Choppy’s said some alarm-bell sounding things, but after reading over his responses to the thread again, I don’t think he’s the guy we want to go after today. Firstly, we know his background is a cameraman for weddings, and we know his scumplay a bit—he doesn’t sit back when he’s scum, and he’s been sitting back a lot. He hasn’t been buddying up with Mojoman, and his bandwagon vote on Alstar can sensibly be interpreted as a play by someone who’s been trying to keep up with the game while being busy with work.

His D2 posts have more meat in them, and the in the first one he wants to swap back to the “other” D1 path of lynching Mojoman. I presume this to be him acting on the little information he has at this point, and expect him to be increasingly thoughtful and opinionated throughout the day. They’re obviously not a team, and nobody was defending Mojoman on D1. ChopBam is not on my scumdar.

However, ChopBam did ignore KY’s request for PM results. ChopBam, would you oblige?

Killing You

D1 should be enough to tell anyone this guy’s towny. Not only is Retaliation still alive (I believe he would be the death of the night if KY was scum), but KY believes Alstar is a Flame Tower. Scum does not openly say such remarks, and if KY believes that, then why was Alstar the target? Even if Cat5 was the real night target, KY responded to Cat5’s request for comment re: Mojoman post-mortem. That’s a town play if I’ve ever seen one.

OrangeP47

One of his first posts suggests the Allies have a roleblocker—a guess which is correct (see Alstar analysis). I doubt scum would say that if it were true, but let’s move on. I’m seeing a lot of ‘stating the obvious’ near the middle of D1. It made me go “hmm”, but his posts near the end of D1 counter that spidey-sense, and Cat5 semi-townread him.

FRAYDO

Ded Soviet Engineer, RIP. There are two posts I found that might be the reason FRAYDO was targeted—here and here. The first one can be interpreted as a softclaim. The second is that notorious ‘slip’ that Voe asked for a custom role. Though there’s no language to prove Voe did request such a role, it could still be a reason FRAYDO was killed.

Alstar

I’m not going to say what role I think Alstar is, but he has a 50/50 chance of being town due to Cat5’s death and being a building. Thus, I believe his claim about being sabotaged by the Allies.

Category 5

Thank you for your service. *salute*

---

I've yet to analyze the following players, but will get to it after a break for food:

Retaliation

Chaos_Knight

Mojoman

TheIrishman

Voe

[Jeod]

In case it's not clear, in my analysis so far the scum are in the last five players. If I end up townreading too many of them though, then obviously I'll have to take a step back and go over my notes again.

[OrangeP47]

One point I'm not sure made it through the recent convo:  I think Alstar might still be on point that Cat 5 was targeted separately, because why would scum role block him and target him for death, drawing in alleged bodyguard. I think Cat 5 was targeted separately, likely for his town value, if Alstar was role blocked.

[Jeod]

3 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

One point I'm not sure made it through the recent convo:  I think Alstar might still be on point that Cat 5 was targeted separately, because why would scum role block him and target him for death, drawing in alleged bodyguard. I think Cat 5 was targeted separately, likely for his town value, if Alstar was role blocked.

Or they thought Alstar was a silo and did s roleblock in case he was a FT. Actually, that makes a lot of sense...

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Jeod said:

Or they thought Alstar was a silo and did s roleblock in case he was a FT. Actually, that makes a lot of sense...

I guess that's one way they could play it, if they were trying to be thorough.

[Killing_You]

In any case, I think we need to hit SK today if possible. That second NK possibility is just too great of a threat.

[Jeod]

1 minute ago, Killing You said:

In any case, I think we need to hit SK today if possible. That second NK possibility is just too great of a threat.

Are you sweating, KY?

[Killing_You]

Tiny bit, I guess. We just had two deaths and a sabotage, which means that if Alstar is a silo, they just need to hit the other one for the win. With SK in play, the chance of that happening is twice as possible, unless I misread the rules.

[Jeod]

I meant in terms of you thinking Alstar is a FT in combination with our postulation that he was roleblocked as a precaution.

[Jeod]

Also, what makes you think there are only two silos?

[Killing_You]

4 minutes ago, Jeod said:

I meant in terms of you thinking Alstar is a FT in combination with our postulation that he was roleblocked as a precaution.

Did I say he was a FT? I put out the possibility, but I didn't exactly say that I thought it was him for sure. It's entirely possible that he is, or if he isn't, then someone is, to throw scum off.

4 minutes ago, Jeod said:

Also, what makes you think there are only two silos?

Estimation. Max amount of silos is 4. Player count max 20. 20/4=5. So, I figure that every fifth player is a silo, if that makes sense. This means that we'd have one silo at player minimum, two silos once we hit 10 players, 3 at 15, and 4 at 20. We started with 12 players, which, if my calculations are correct, means that there's two silos in play.

Again, I could be wrong, that's just where my math took me.

[Retaliation]

10 hours ago, Chaos_Knight said:

That's an oddly specific definition of Alstar's role even though he never claimed anything.
There are other soviet buildings in the game, you know? Plenty of, actually. Do you know something we don't?

The only one who knows Alstar's role is Alstar.

I've been thinking a lot about how scum will react to us lynching a building. It can be an objective so it's a tempting target regardless of that player's activity. There's also no role reveal so while it's probably a silo, they can't just blindly assume that. In addition a heavy tank has a pretty obvious target themselves that night. So if they have an engineer (the only roleblocker on the sheet), they can simultaneously evade both a flame tower and the heavy tanks protection (disabling Alstar if he's a silo).

[Jeod]

Retaliation

Can't be a partner with KY. As wet-behind-the-ears to APB Mafia as can be. Suspected Voe was a building, but there was both no follow-up on that (Voe is alive) and no retaliation (Retaliation is alive). I'm reading him as town so far. That leaves Voe, Irish, and CK. I don't like those names in the scumhat, so I'll end this analysis with bringing KY off of my town list.

Killing You

You did indeed suggest he was a FT, which is enough cause for you to want to take a precaution and sabotage him as he's targeted. In fact, you appeared willing to go on a Mojoman or a ChopBam crusade today, before we started discussing the reason for the deaths.

My lynch suspects for today are Killing You or Voe. I will finish my analysis of CK, Voe, and Irish later.

[Killing_You]

2 minutes ago, Jeod said:

Killing You

You did indeed suggest he was a FT, which is enough cause for you to want to take a precaution and sabotage him as he's targeted. In fact, you appeared willing to go on a Mojoman or a ChopBam crusade today, before we started discussing the reason for the deaths.

These two were already on my hitlist when the day started. Also, contradiction much?

2 hours ago, Jeod said:

Killing You

D1 should be enough to tell anyone this guy’s towny. Not only is Retaliation still alive (I believe he would be the death of the night if KY was scum), but KY believes Alstar is a Flame Tower. Scum does not openly say such remarks, and if KY believes that, then why was Alstar the target? Even if Cat5 was the real night target, KY responded to Cat5’s request for comment re: Mojoman post-mortem. That’s a town play if I’ve ever seen one.

Especially the Mojoman part. You changed my motivation on a dime seemingly to paint me as the villain. What was the catalyst for this change? This post?

1 hour ago, Killing You said:

In any case, I think we need to hit SK today if possible. That second NK possibility is just too great of a threat.

Because this is a perfectly reasonable strategy. Cut the number of nightkills down from 2 to 1.

[Jeod]

It is a perfectly reasonable strategy, but context is the key. Your post was right after OrangeP47 and I mentioned that Alstar could have been both targeted and roleblocked as a precaution, and your post opener, "in any case", is super dodgy of that possibility. It was unexpected and it was enough to make me reconsider my read on you. Reconsider, not totally flip.

[Killing_You]

Fair enough. My point still stands, but I see my mistake. It just came off as you going from labeling me 100% town to 100% scum.

By the way, the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards lynching Voe (in accordance with your plan). His inactivity isn't helping, and I've noticed that he likes to fly under the RADAR as scum/third party and only comes out to play when directly confronted. He's more proactive as town.

##vote Voe

[ChopBam]

Jeod is right that I've been busy with work. I even had a wedding far away last night (a Monday). It was during dinner that I made my post and I saw KY had replied after I pressed submit. I was out of time at that point and needed to jump into photographing the toasts.

I do have a night action that could be good or bad for town, depending on how I use it. I'd rather try my day action first, as that is much lower risk and done in full disclosure. I had more to write here but I erased it as I don't want to tell scum too much. But what I will say is this: if we agree on a target, I can likely save us some effort. Voe seems the most probable candidate.

I'll do more analyzation later. Right now I'm still on my phone and I just woke up after getting in late last night.

[ChopBam]

And just to be crystal clear that I answered KY's question, nobody visited me last night nor did I do any actions nor do I have anything else to report.

[Mojoman]

I can't excuse Voe's inactivity. We still have a day until ?.

Jeod and Killing_You if you could stop the fighting that'd be great. Though that might just be because you guys are the most active and only have eachothers posts to analyze.

 

[Jeod]

4 minutes ago, Mojoman said:

I can't excuse Voe's inactivity. We still have a day until ?.

Jeod and Killing_You if you could stop the fighting that'd be great. Though that might just be because you guys are the most active and only have eachothers posts to analyze.

 

Oh my god. This doesn't deserve a response. XD

[Retaliation]

*Insert snarky joke about how Jeod and Killing You are getting married and Chopbam is the photographer*

Any reason for voting voe beyond trying to light a fire beneath his feet Killing You?

[Killing_You]

That's pretty much it. His inactivity is suspicious and seems like he's trying to fly below the RADAR. I'll give him a chance to talk his way out of it, but for now, heat's on.

[ChopBam]

On 7/15/2017 at 6:14 PM, Mojoman said:

No one is being particularly quiet either...

1 hour ago, Mojoman said:

Though that might just be because you guys are the most active and only have eachothers posts to analyze.

An opinion-change between D1 and D2 regarding activity, eh? Not a scum thing, just an observation. In fact, Mojoman, Jeod, and KY read as town to me. Anyway...

I've basically skimmed through this whole thread again, and I've picked up some quotes. At this time, Retaliation seems a bit crooked to me. Nothing 100% substantial, but I'm taking his posts as a general whole here. He's asked a lot of questions about the game mechanics, most of which I am not quoting below, but it should be factored in. When I was new to the game, I made sure to ask lots of questions and I thought it'd be a good way to try to hide as scum while asking questions to pad one's own content submissions.

On 7/14/2017 at 9:03 PM, Retaliation said:

Anyone else notice there can be up to 4 missile silos? That seems an awfully high number to have if you were only going to sprinkle one or two silos into a game. I'd gamble that there's quite a few of them and scum is going to have to tunnel hard if they want to win via silo kills.

Is Retaliation thinking from the scum perspective for the purpose of scumhunting and determining scumtells, or is he unwittingly revealing a scum alignment himself?

On 7/15/2017 at 8:30 PM, Retaliation said:

What more input could you possibly want? It's "Idunno lynch Voe?" day. The only thing we can really do is speculate about the overall objectives/game setup. I stopped talking about objectives because that helps scum more than town as cat5 mentioned at some point. I think I also might have set off the above vs underground debate when I only meant to suggest if there's a third party role it's probably a civilian flavored as a scientist.

Anyway if you really want input so bad, I think we're protecting 2 silos with some number of engineers as a trump card.

A lot of words here without a whole lot being said. Parroting some post Cat5 made "at some point." Something about starting a debate. Why, Retaliation, do you suspect there are a number of engineers? Does the Allied team have an Engineer you know about, so it makes sense to you to posit there are Soviet Engineers as well?

On 7/16/2017 at 11:40 AM, Retaliation said:

I was going to suggest we ask him why he trusts cat5 so much but I missed him already talking about that here.

I don't know who to vote for. I just have this feeling there's some sort of punishment for lynching voe (possibly only day 1) built into the game/his role.

"I was going to do [what the Soviet analyzation exraordinaire] Cat5 did but I got ninja'd by him." Trying to associate and align himself with a known scum-hunter genius.

Retaliation also fears lynching Voe D1, OK. Let's keep that in mind.

On 7/16/2017 at 0:01 PM, Retaliation said:

This made me mull over my assumptions about voe's role and I think I'm okay talking about openly about them now.

I suspected voe was a building, mostly because with all the missile silos it'd be easy for Vert to accept any request for lynch proof roles. I was worried about giving scum an early building pick, but forcing scum to waste a night kill on someone who was lynched isn't all that bad a trade. Plus we probably have a multitude of support options with relevant abilities for this situation.

I was also so deadset on voe being a building that I didn't really consider he could just be scum (or even one of the scum buildings).

##Unvote

 I'll have to think about this.

You were worried about Voe being a building, and on D1 you really didn't vote for Voe because you thought he'd be a building, but the reason you stated was that he could be another explody-hurt-town-thing? Why did Jeod's telling you the stahp-thing is a common scare tactic persuade you to tell us you weren't actually afraid of Voe being a stahp-thing? He really could be an explody thing or just some other 3rd party poop-stopper, and his utter lack of content pushes me that way. He's also been a SK before. The fact Voe seemed hesitant to sign up for this game (he came to the thread only after he was tagged) tells me he doesn't have much time to play, and so now has a role that is really interesting but hardly requires any thread input. Maybe even no night actions.

On 7/16/2017 at 2:43 PM, Retaliation said:

You think alstar was thinking no one else noticed that little tidbit and encouraging us to fall into a little trap cat5?

Again appealing to Mr. Awesome himself.

On 7/16/2017 at 3:58 PM, Retaliation said:

Should have just lynched voe tbh.

Suddenly a change of heart on Voe?

20 hours ago, Retaliation said:

Nothing happened over here. I'm actually somewhat confused about the FRAYDO kill. 

Scum would be confused about kills they didn't make. Hey, just putting that out there.

13 hours ago, Chaos_Knight said:

That's an oddly specific definition of Alstar's role even though he never claimed anything.
There are other soviet buildings in the game, you know? Plenty of, actually. Do you know something we don't?

Ah, good to know I'm not the only one seeing some potential issues with Retaliation.

I know I responded to a lot of quotes there, but I thought I would take advantage of the multi quote button while skimming the thread. Retaliation again isn't a 100% case from me, but as I said it's rubbin' me wrong.

8 hours ago, Chaos_Knight said:

Oh wow.

So 2 killers AND a sabotage engie. Easy mode for scum much?

Anyway, that makes me even more curious about Retal's post I mentioned above. Might be a poorly worded lucky guess, but damn.

See next quote re: easy mode.

15 hours ago, Killing You said:

I mean, most of us do have guns.

I suspect this is why the bad guys are so strong. They are few in number, but they each get a powerful nighttime ability. If the town can scumhunt correctly, we could maybe put this game in the bag through day actions alone. Plus the fact that there are Missile SIlos they need to kill. Yeah, I'm thinking Allies need to be pretty strong this game for balance.

KY, are you telling us you have a gun?

[OrangeP47]

I'd be on board the inactivity wagon, too, except we do have some time to go. A pressure vote is fine. At the same time, I'm not sure enough about our 'vote leaders' this day to really get enthusiastic about anything.  For what it's worth, though, while I really really want to find Jeod scummy (something about a reputation) I can't find anything to fault him with so far.

What I'd like to see is some 'broad consensuses' forming, not that there's a way to force that.  When one or two people push something we can have a scum team doing it, or a scum and one clueless towny, but when we have broader coalitions, that's where things start to get interesting.

[ChopBam]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

Why, Retaliation, do you suspect there are a number of engineers? Does the Allied team have an Engineer you know about, so it makes sense to you to posit there are Soviet Engineers as well?

To clarify on this part from myself. We know FRAYDO was an Engineer and we suspect there is an Allied Engineer somewhere, afaik. But "a number of engineers" indicates more than one. I actually hope this is the case, since we need help if one or more missile silos die.

[ChopBam]

Also

##unvote

After reading Mojo's posts again I'd rather try for somebody else first, as, in my mind at least, we have more suspicious people lurking this thread.

[OrangeP47]

5 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Also

##unvote

After reading Mojo's posts again I'd rather try for somebody else first, as, in my mind at least, we have more suspicious people lurking this thread.

I don't have the full train of thought finished, but if Alstar and Mojo are both town, then the scum would have been in a really good position. They could just sit back and let the rest of us tear each other apart, which is what I'm starting to think happened. Mojo isn't completely clean for me, either, but baring further developments today I don't like the case for him either right now.

I'm liking this analysis you did right now, so I'm not more willing to accept being busy as the reason for some of the things flagged as missteps earlier.  I mean, I don't fault people for being busy ever anyway, but I'm less up on the meta than some of you long term vets so everyone's harder for me to read all things considered equal.

[Jeod]

I have a gun, and I am willing to use it today if we come to a consensus.

[Retaliation]

12 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

A lot of words here without a whole lot being said. Parroting some post Cat5 made "at some point." Something about starting a debate. Why, Retaliation, do you suspect there are a number of engineers? Does the Allied team have an Engineer you know about, so it makes sense to you to posit there are Soviet Engineers as well?

I'm taking this piece first because of Chopbam's follow up post.

I wasn't basing the presence of soviet engineers on an allied engineer at all. They don't really even interact because the allied engineer can only kill buildings by it's shooting phase action. I figured there would have to be at least one (by "some number of" I meant 1 or 2 which is apparently not how you're supposed to use the phrase) because a building-centric game is perfect for them. More importantly engineers also let Vert dial down on the number of do nothing until day 7 silos, while giving scum some hope of actually going for a silo win rather than winning via majority.