Games [Game Over] CYOR - Battle of the Gods Edition

[FRAYDO]

I would actually be concerned that you are a jester and you have been playing us all so well in getting the lynch onto you but then I refer to Orange's earlier description

1 hour ago, OrangeP47 said:

you're woefully inadequate at defending yourself.

and then I put those concerns to rest.

[Shade939]

Just now, FRAYDO said:

I would actually be concerned that you are a jester and you have been playing us all so well in getting the lynch onto you but then I refer to Orange's earlier description

and then I put those concerns to rest.

Honestly, I doubt I'd even have to bother trying if I was a Jester in this game or had such an ability.

All I have to do is something like say I don't trust Jeod to not kill a town player with his day kill ability and wanting to investigate him at the same time instead of wanting to let him live and using more night actions to investigate him, then I can cast my single vote on him to get him lynched, which obviously can't succeed by itself, and then just sit back and watch what happens as Jeod does all of my work for me.

It'd also be helpful if my ability wasn't as neutral as it was, so I can't exactly use that to prove anything, and it's effectiveness decreases if it's known about.

[ChopBam]

I see a lot of arguing between Jeod and Shade, and the particular brand of arguing they're engaged in has led me to one conclusion: they're probably not on a scum team together.

OK I've made my D1 contribution, carry on boiz.

[Killing_You]

Not yet. First I must shamelessly steal from Cat5 for a sec.

@ChopBam r u scum? 

[ChopBam]

But for serious, I might not get another chance before hammer because I'm doing more Jurassic Park tomorrow. And I can't decide between the fools, so

##vote no lynch

I'm betting we can probably learn a lot through tonight's night actions since this is a very special game. Lynching D1 might be helpful in a normal game, maybe, but this is the battle between gods. Gods I say! So let's allow everyone to live past sunset and see what the night brings.

[ChopBam]

Just now, Killing_You said:

Not yet. First I must shamelessly steal from Cat5 for a sec.

@ChopBam r u scum? 

I already answered that, you bum. See this post:

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 9:38 PM, ChopBam said:

I am town. But I am not awkward this time.

 

[Killing_You]

Oops. Forgot that happened lel

[ChopBam]

Lel indeed. Do gods forget? Are you a god at all?

[TheIrishman]

CVC:

Killing You voted Shade

OrangeP47 voted nobody

Jeod voted Shade

iLikeToSnipe voted Shade

Shade939 voted No Lynch

Nodlied voted nobody

Category 5 Hurricane voted nobody

ChopBam voted No Lynch

FRAYDO voted nobody

Verti60 voted nobody

 

Votes Cast: 5

Shade is in the lead with 3 votes.

Time remaining until Hammer, 16 Hours and 5 minutes

[Killing_You]

17 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Lel indeed. Do gods forget? Are you a god at all?

I am. I've just been doing other things and it kind of slipped my mind.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

WARNING FOR USERS NAMED VOE OR ANYONE ELSE TRIGGERED BY LONG POSTS: INCOMING JUMBO CAT5 POST

On 3/13/2018 at 11:07 PM, Killing_You said:

 

 

On 3/13/2018 at 11:08 PM, OrangeP47 said:

No, I am not scum.

I take it you've had some bad experiences over at MU lately?

They sent me a birthday email 5 hours ahead of the actual date today  (But it's true for GMT so I'll allow it)

On 3/13/2018 at 11:15 PM, Shade939 said:

Nope.

On 3/13/2018 at 11:37 PM, FRAYDO said:

@Category 5 Hurricane eat pant

On 3/13/2018 at 11:38 PM, ChopBam said:

I am town. But I am not awkward this time.

4 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

no u

 

In practice at Mafia Universe, a mafia player who was asked this question at point blank actually refused to to say no, and instead said something along the lines of "well, I'm not exactly scum" which naturally just led to people asking for more detail and he kept walking himself further into a corner until there was no doubt that he was scum. He was so worried about being caught lying that he couldn't even lie about his alignment when asked this simple question.

So following the logic of the Mafia Universe (as opposed to either the true universe or the Shade multiverse), this seemingly simple question actually can be really awkward to answer, especially if the question is presented as a joke. So, people who answered this flatly with a "no" or similar hard negative are more likely to be town. People who respond with a joke of their own or not make a direct answer are more likely to be scum. You can't take this info at face value, of course, especially in this case where I probably shouldn't have signaled that I was actually trying something, so I may have devalued my own attempt before I got anything meaningful out of it.

More likely town:
OrangeP47
Shade939
ChopBam

Less likely town:
Killing_You
FRAYDO
iLikeToSnipe

At the very least, I'll want to compare this list when we are done to see how effective it was.

 

16 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

For me, I see it as a playstyle leaning more towards scummy. The mafia almost always know who's on their team, spreading confusion about your alignment doesn't usually help town. While it's true that you can use it defensively to get yourself lower on the mafia hitlist it can also backfire when you're less trusted by the town. I don't find it generally suspicious to spread confusion about your role, but that's not exactly what Jeod is doing.

In summary, I think Jeod has gone past the point of being "lolD1Phase" with the claim about what he sent as a role request in his PM. He's not just trying to spread confusion about his role, but also his alignment. I don't think confusing people about your role is necessarily harmful, but confusing town about your alignment is. Scum already know who's on their team, you're not doing them any harm by trying to make reads on your alignment murky.

This discussion kinda went out the window once Shade said Shade things, but I don't really agree with your general argument versus Jeod. Scum!Jeod is usually digging for information about others, not tossing out smoke screens that do not really change anything for town and makes scum wonder which claim is true. I didn't see any signal towards alignment, but I saw multiple signals about roles, and this looks like an attempt to confuse scum if you ask me.

 

13 hours ago, Jeod said:

The only thing I have so far is that OrangeP47 and Shade aren't partners. Really need more participation.

I don't know where you are getting this. It's clear you and Shade are not teamed, but OrangeP47 is just doing his usual "explain Shade to people not used to his portable multiverse that he lives in" which has always made me feel like he's trying to make a cover for him all the time.

10 hours ago, VERTi60 said:

Orange, how long you are married to Shade?

And I'm not the only one.

 

12 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

As Category answered his MU question stating he is neither Mafia nor Third Party, I'm leaning to him being Neutral. It's not enough of a suspicion for me to place a vote D1, but I'm skeptical of him.

I answered the question that way, because the question that was asked of me was slightly altered. Instead of asking the proper umbrella question of "r u scum" , he asked me if I was Mafia or Third Party. Since he asked me an either/or question instead of a yes/no, the only appropriate answer was neither. That's why I yelled at him for doing it wrong the first time. He didn't ask the correct question.

 

12 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

You don't even know what that means!

(And I don't recall the reference either  )

There might be more to it than I'm aware of, but in the MU Championship game I participated in, one of the players in the game who was very antagonistic would reply "EAT PANT" to pretty much anyone who had an argument with him. It was irritating because all he did was signal that he didn't like what you were saying but couldn't be bothered to say why or actually counter the argument. Naturally, he was town and got lynched. We lost that game.

 

10 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

Killing a random player and threatening to hammer on D1 before all players have had a chance to contribute and not even being halfway through the day? I don't think so.

##Forbidden Sun Jeod

Initially I thought this was a pretty awesome move, but then....

10 hours ago, VERTi60 said:

Hmm this could have been a ruse from ryuk#2 to provoke early day action...

10 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

That's what I was thinking. But I've played enough mafia games where town screws over town (or scum pretends to be town screwing over town...).

4 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

Only if I'm convinced he's going to shoot somebody who's town. But at this point, I don't think that's necessary.

These thoughts aren't very consistent. If you were thinking it was a ruse to draw out a day action, why did you use it? (Obviously the next sentence is your answer to that, but this still got my attention)

If you're only going to roleblock him if you are convinced he's going to shoot somebody who's town, why did you jump on him so quickly this time?

 

10 hours ago, Shade939 said:

Who were you planning on killing anyways Jeod?

10 hours ago, Jeod said:

See that's the kind of question scum asks.

Holy shit, this is amazing. I'm really struggling to think of why a town person would want to ask this question in this situation (publicly, at least). I mean, sure, it's something to be curious about, but it (probably) helps Mafia the most to know the answer to this question. As Town, it's better to wait and see, because there isn't anything you can do about it anyway.

That said, I was once in a game where there was a lynch-triggered day vig who we lynched mid game to prove his role and also get a second flip from his target at the same time (the first CYOR at BHP, if I recall). In that case, it was useful to know who he would kill, because there was nothing the Mafia could do about it. It's all about who it helps.

 

9 hours ago, Shade939 said:

Honestely, I think it's more likely Jeod is a God of death, so I'm going to get rid of him now, his own role claim doesn't even make sense if he is Thor.

I don't even...what universe are you getting this stuff from?

7 hours ago, Shade939 said:

On second thought, I don't think Jeod is lying about his passive, so he's trying to get Scum to target him tonight.

##Vote Jeod.

When you can probably prevent him from accidentally killing a town player no matter what alignment he is...

You just declared a player is trying to get targeted by scum, and then voted for him. You do understand that means that you think you are voting for someone who isn't scum? 

6 hours ago, Shade939 said:

Unless your wondering if a town player is lying about his abilities...

Who cares?! If he's a lying about his abilities as town, that's good for town! (Well, so long as he doesn't cause undue confusion about things as a result, but I don't think that is happening here)

5 hours ago, Shade939 said:

So, your going to leave the Day Vig without night protection alive? And assume that scum aren't going to simply kill him after he uses his ability and probably kills a town player first, and he distracts everyone by continuing to live in the meantime...

You are revealing that you believe the roleclaim with this line of thought. And it doesn't make sense. If we believe he's a town vig, why the fuck wouldn't we leave him alive? Even if Jeod doesn't have his own protection, he probably will receive some support. Even failing that, Mafia, if they believe his claim, are likely to think he'll be protected, so he's actually got a good shot of surviving.

5 hours ago, Shade939 said:

Scum know he has a killing ability, they know he shouldn't have any BP. He's a perfect target to try and eliminate before he can use his ability. Therefore he should try to use his ability before he can be eliminated...

I'm pretty sure someone already said these exact words, but how does it make sense for you to make the argument that he should use his ability before he can be eliminated when you've been trying to eliminate him yourself to prevent exactly that scenario?

4 hours ago, Shade939 said:

If he could successfully target a scum with it then it's too our benefit, but if during the next day he can't and instead targets a town player since he was rushed to use his ability then it hurts us instead.

The risk outweighs the reward.

These last two posts were not very far apart, yet they disagree with each other.

1 hour ago, Shade939 said:

Honestly, I doubt I'd even have to bother trying if I was a Jester in this game or had such an ability.

All I have to do is something like say I don't trust Jeod to not kill a town player with his day kill ability and wanting to investigate him at the same time instead of wanting to let him live and using more night actions to investigate him, then I can cast my single vote on him to get him lynched, which obviously can't succeed by itself, and then just sit back and watch what happens as Jeod does all of my work for me.

It'd also be helpful if my ability wasn't as neutral as it was, so I can't exactly use that to prove anything, and it's effectiveness decreases if it's known about.

He's trying to sneak a neutral claim in there now. Are we closing in on a Third Party claim again? Is this where we are going?

6 hours ago, Jeod said:

Just how scum would think. You want to:

1. Remove a "problematic" town asap

2. Immediately block me at daystart on Day 2 despite me specifically saying that it was never my intention to kill a player but gather information

3. Suggest that multiple investigation roles should be on me tonight instead of other potential reads

4. Insinuate that I have no night BP

You use "town" in the third person and mention that you think I lack night BP, which tells me that you have nightkill targets on your mind.

##vote Shade939

6 hours ago, Jeod said:

I think I've outlined my case quite well. It's time to see what the others think of it.

I have no OBJECTIONs!

 

5 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

This really is just how Shade talks.  It's not the best, but I don't think it's a dead scum give away like the rest of you.

Basically, I have an ability that lets lynch vote skip a player IF and only IF they are not scum.  If they are scum, they get lynched like normal.  If they are town, the vote goes on to the second the most voted thing.  I can use this ability ONCE, unless I'm wrong and the person I target actually does get voted as scum. In which case I get a redo later.

I like this, this is a good idea. Hell, I've done this before.

5 hours ago, Shade939 said:

It's also a question of can we even trust your ability works as you say it does?

If he's lying, it'll blow up in his face right away. 

5 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

I suppose we could always theoretically put up "no lynch" as second most voted option, and it would give us a lot more info than a standard no lynch vote, but if there's overall overwhelming support for voting Shade I might consider saving this ability for a more contentious moment.

I'm learning towards doing this. I have a couple reasons why not to do this right now, but I think the pros beat the cons.

Reasons not to:
Limited usages
Shade looks pretty damn scummy

Reasons to do it:
If Shade is actually not scum, it would be nice to not lynch him early again
Reduces risk to nill on the lynch that is generally least likely to get a scum.
Might wind up with a clear player in Shade if he's town (though we still can't lock him down to one universe)

 

We need to coordinate the vote, though, to make sure the order is correct and can't be messed with around hammer.

 

Looking beyond Shade, I'm a little bit suspicious of K_Y, iLTS, and VERT. I already mentioned iLTS, but K_Y and VERT have kinda looked like spectators waiting for something to happen that they can safely jump on.

[VERTi60]

58 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

VERT have kinda looked like spectators waiting for something to happen that they can safely jump on.

Don't expect much participation on my behalf, but on that matter, I wonder why you didn't highlight chopbam in that category as well.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Because he's talked even less than either of you but has also provided what I consider to be a more reasonable excuse for why he hasn't been doing much.

That said, no, there isn't much difference between you.

[Jeod]

On 3/13/2018 at 7:39 PM, Jeod said:

Second.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 7:40 PM, OrangeP47 said:

I was also first to change my avatar, unless you expect us to believe you are some sort of bird god.  (Though that's a valid option, I suppose).

 

On 3/13/2018 at 7:55 PM, Jeod said:

Ever see Twitch Plays Pokémon?

 

On 3/13/2018 at 8:02 PM, Shade939 said:

They actaully do have a couple of god pokemon don't they?

This little interaction on the first page is why I felt OP47 and Shade weren't on a team. Though now that I read it on its own, I think I can dismiss that thought. This isn't enough evidence.

[Jeod]

5 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

CVC:

Killing You voted Shade

OrangeP47 voted nobody

Jeod voted Shade

iLikeToSnipe voted Shade

Shade939 voted No Lynch

Nodlied voted nobody

Category 5 Hurricane voted nobody

ChopBam voted No Lynch

FRAYDO voted nobody

Verti60 voted nobody

 

Votes Cast: 5

Shade is in the lead with 3 votes.

Time remaining until Hammer, 16 Hours and 5 minutes

 

3 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

We need to coordinate the vote, though, to make sure the order is correct and can't be messed with around hammer.

At the moment it's too easy to shift the first target to NoLynch, which renders the whole idea moot. We'll need one more vote on Shade, and the another if someone else votes NoLynch. The ratio should be 4:2. So, if anyone else changes the ratio after one more Shade vote, they'll be under scrutiny.

[Jeod]

Although, @Category 5 Hurricane, you should add this to your cons list, as it's a big one:

What if OrangeP47 is lying about his ability to potentially clear the first target and only has a scum ability to swap between two targets? If that's the case, it's indeed preferable to have two players on the table so OrangeP47 would be caught if the lynched target was town.

I still volunteer.

[Jeod]

Here's the scenario since I'll be out and about for a few hours before hammer:

Scenario 1: OrangeP47 is truthful

Shade is Target #1 and NoLynch is Target #2, we discover through the ability that Shade is not scum (but still possibly neutral/third party)

Scenario 2: OrangeP47 is full of shit

Shade is Target #1 and NoLynch is Target #2, Orange flips the lynch to NoLynch and argues that because of it, Shade must be non-hostile, town gains no useful information or confirmation

 

Scenario 2 is why I'd prefer to have two players on the table. Make me Target #1 if possible. Then, if OrangeP47 gets a town lynched, we know that he was covering for his buddy Shade and you have two scum on the second day.

[iLikeToSnipe]

@OrangeP47 If first target is town and second is scum do you use up a charge? Can't recall if you had answered.

[Jeod]

11 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

Whoever is in second place on the vote gets lynched (or no lynch) if Shade is not scum.

So for example.

Shade - 3 votes (not scum)

FRAYDO - 2 votes

In this case you'd be lynched.

In another example.

Shade - 3 votes (scum)

FRAYDO - 2 votes

In this case Shade would be lynched, and I get a do-over on my ability at a later date.

He's saying that if the first target is scum he'll get a do-over. He also appears to be insisting that Shade be the first target, which doesn't work to help us know if he's lying about how the ability works. It's awful convenient for Shade, really. Plus, if OrangeP47 can't accept the terms of having me as the first target, then he must also believe that I'm town and therefore his ability shouldn't be used today.

Shade has also said absolutely nothing about his role. In the face of overwhelming reasoning towards lynching him today, there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest to us that we should be cautious about lynching him other than circumstantial. Shade doesn't play a bad town game when he's a town power role.

[iLikeToSnipe]

4 minutes ago, Jeod said:

He's saying that if the first target is scum he'll get a do-over. He also appears to be insisting that Shade be the first target, which doesn't work to help us know if he's lying about how the ability works. It's awful convenient for Shade, really. Plus, if OrangeP47 can't accept the terms of having me as the first target, then he must also believe that I'm town and therefore his ability shouldn't be used today.

Shade has also said absolutely nothing about his role. In the face of overwhelming reasoning towards lynching him today, there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest to us that we should be cautious about lynching him other than circumstantial. Shade doesn't play a bad town game when he's a town power role.

Also, based on the wording Shade could be 3rd party and would get passed over so it's not 100% going to clear him.

I don't think Orange is lying, it'd be a pretty ballsy gambit as scum since it's so easy to disprove. Sure, they might get one town to be lynched, but after that they're exposed and good as dead.

My only concern is that this seems like it could be used as a soft cop. In terms of meta, we might not have an actual cop for balance (or just a limited one). Which means that if Orange is telling the truth he's now exposed as one of our investigator roles.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Also, it's difficult on mobile to read through everything. If you need me to switch my vote for dual lynch shenanigans just mention me so I can more easily see the post.

If we're going to go through with this then ChopBam's nolynch vote throws a wrench in things. I think we would need a 5:3 voting split to guarantee there's no last minute switching to throw in a nolynch.

[Jeod]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

Also, based on the wording Shade could be 3rd party and would get passed over so it's not 100% going to clear him.

Which is why I volunteered. I'm town, so I will be passed over. If Shade is actually third party, he'll still be lynched. The only reason for us to go through with this ability is to prove my alignment, which is mostly already proven according to opinion.

I think that given where we stand right now, it'd be less risky to just lynch Shade and save Orange's ability for another time. We're too close to hammer to coordinate things the way they would need to be, and it's a work day, so we'll have a hard time getting players here in the first place to weigh the options and cast their votes.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Jeod said:

Which is why I volunteered. I'm town, so I will be passed over. If Shade is actually third party, he'll still be lynched. The only reason for us to go through with this ability is to prove my alignment, which is mostly already proven according to opinion.

I think that given where we stand right now, it'd be less risky to just lynch Shade and save Orange's ability for another time. We're too close to hammer to coordinate things the way they would need to be, and it's a work day, so we'll have a hard time getting players here in the first place to weigh the options and cast their votes.

That's my opinion as well. I was worried that if we tried this Shade would switch to a nolynch vote. Nobody dies, but he gets out of it.

Shade is an obvious not-town, and I'm leaning towards scum instead of 3rd party.

[VERTi60]

I have few spare minutes to make a contribution for food thoughts:

I don't understand the "do over" part for Orange's action, I mean, if we know that the first target was scum we'll gonna lynch him anyway, with or without the ability. It almost sounds redundant or maybe I just don't understand it... Orange is known making up abilities when he's scum so I guess we just have to test it and see, but if it's true why would he announce it D1 and not hide it when the opportunity is right? A scum can now react to this new situation and prepare accordingly, this is something which concerns me.

I am not a big fan of no lynch, but I guess in this case when we are putting an ability to test, why not?

##vote no lynch

I'll be probably busy from now on until close to hammer, so I'll make a quick sum. I'll pair people to categories:

 

Town read:

@Category 5 Hurricane seems to be consistent with his playing in last game and also in Star Wars mafia, I'm leaning towards town.

 

Players of Action:

@Jeod & @iLikeToSnipe - I'm getting a bit paranoid that whole ruse with actions was set up, mostly b/c how fast iLTS reacted to Jeod's threats, even though he admitted it could be a ruse to provoke day actions. I still think it's a bit too early to start going into this area, but meta-wise, it was jeod who invited (?) iLTS to the game and maybe he requested a scum team with him as well. Jeod likes playing scum and pulling off stunts like these, although this is just a thought. I haven't paid too much attention so far to make a clear case, but for now leaning more to town.

 

Buddies:

@Shade939 and @OrangeP47 are somewhat very close this game, but that could be called consistent if we compare it to Star Wars Mafia. Maybe a bit less consistent to CYOR 3, but then they were both scum/TP. If any of them flips scum it would be wise to suspect the other.

 

Null Read:

@Nodlied @Killing_You @ChopBam @FRAYDO - While Choppy has a reason being busy (unlike me though he seems to have fun), and Nodlied is being consistent of being active, it's mainly KY and FRAYDO who are somewhat spectating. KY here is outright making jokes or small comments than actively participating. Once again we may have a scum here in the background of major D1 drama, but then again time will tell, it's too early to judge the null reads.

 

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just to clarify, I had blocked Jeod because I thought he was going to use a hammer ability and do an early hammer. In my opinion, D1 is the most important day and you want it to run its course.

[Jeod]

I actually spotted Snipe lurking CYOR 3 and asked him about it on Steam, where I found out he was interested in joining a mafia game again. I knew he wanted to sign up for whatever game was next which is why I pinged him.

Vertigo, you just tied the votes. We were at a 3:2 ratio, so all we needed was a Shade vote, but you went with NoLynch to tie it up. Curious.

[VERTi60]

Should I vote Shade then?

[Jeod]

Yes. What we want ideally is a 4:2 ratio for Shade/NoLynch, which seems to be the option we're going to have to take. We can't coordinate a Jeod/Shade 4:2 ratio in time unless a miracle happens, so we'll have to see if Orange decides to use his ability. If he does, it won't prove that Shade isn't scum per-se. Night investigations will have to back it up.

[VERTi60]

Fine then.

 

##vote @Shade939

[Jeod]

Some math.

CVC:

Killing You voted Shade

OrangeP47 voted nobody

Jeod voted Shade

iLikeToSnipe voted Shade

Shade939 voted No Lynch

Nodlied voted nobody

Category 5 Hurricane voted nobody

ChopBam voted No Lynch

FRAYDO voted nobody

Verti60 voted Shade

 

Shade: 4

NoLynch: 2

 

Now let's change it up.

 

CVC:

Killing You voted Shade

OrangeP47 voted nobody

Jeod voted Jeod

iLikeToSnipe voted Jeod

Shade939 voted No Lynch

Nodlied voted nobody

Category 5 Hurricane voted nobody

ChopBam voted No Lynch

FRAYDO voted nobody

Verti60 voted Jeod

 

Jeod: 3

NoLynch: 2

Shade: 1

 

We're now dependent on OrangeP47 being truthful, Shade being willing, and Nodlied/Category 5/ChopBam/FRAYDO being present before hammer to make the proper adjustments. There are too many factors we're dependent on. It's optimal to go for the first plan.