IA - Criticisms

[KTFF]

<ktffsoapbox>

Seems like we are constantly fielding rants about the mod. Constructive criticism is certainly welcome, but some folks are way over the top and have nothing positive to contribute (trolls I say). Probably hardcore old sk00l Ren fans that cant seem to let go of what Ren started out to be almost 20 years ago. Ren will always have a fond place in my gaming heart, but frankly I would have walked away a long time ago from Ren had it not been for IA.

A ton of work has gone into this mod, and continues. Most of the mods do not have the amazingly detailed custom models this one does. Hell most rip off assets from another one, throw a new skin on it and call it their own. Point being there is a lot of really cool stuff going on in this mod, and it keeps getting better.

Maybe on occasion you can think beyond your infatuation with trying to tear something down constantly. Try and appreciate the positives. Hell go really crazy and maybe even compliment the work.

 

NOTE -  If you want to criticize, rant, complain that is fine. However, keep it to a MINIMUM in game.

Post all you like here in the forums. The rest of us in game do not want to hear your constant pissing and moaning. 

For those with reading comprehension issues, I will reiterate. I did not say you cant complain at all in game. Just no mass rants about all the various things you want changed, think are OP, broken, etc. Write a book here on the forum if you wish. I will not sit back and let you go on and on in game. You will be muted.

</ktffsoapbox>

 

[Testament]

12 hours ago, KTFF said:

<ktffsoapbox>

Seems like we are constantly fielding rants about the mod. Constructive criticism is certainly welcome, but some folks are way over the top and have nothing positive to contribute (trolls I say). Probably hardcore old sk00l Ren fans that cant seem to let go of what Ren started out to be almost 20 years ago. Ren will always have a fond place in my gaming heart, but frankly I would have walked away a long time ago from Ren had it not been for IA.

A ton of work has gone into this mod, and continues. Most of the mods do not have the amazingly detailed custom models this one does. Hell most rip off assets from another one, throw a new skin on it and call it their own. Point being there is a lot of really cool stuff going on in this mod, and it keeps getting better.

Maybe on occasion you can think beyond your infatuation with trying to tear something down constantly. Try and appreciate the positives. Hell go really crazy and maybe even compliment the work.

 

NOTE -  If you want to criticize, rant, complain that is fine. However, keep it to a MINIMUM in game.

Post all you like here in the forums. The rest of us in game do not want to hear your constant pissing and moaning. 

For those with reading comprehension issues, I will reiterate. I did not say you cant complain at all in game. Just no mass rants about all the various things you want changed, think are OP, broken, etc. Write a book here on the forum if you wish. I will not sit back and let you go on and on in game. You will be muted.

</ktffsoapbox>

 

Dehumanize your detractors, its an age old tactic.

People usually don't play and then criticize things they don't enjoy. IA is highly flawed albeit fun, it needs some balancing and play testing. You mods in IA are by far the worst feature of the whole game as you constantly work to suppress any form of expression that isn't boot licking or as I like to call it " live NPCs".  It's turned into the top 20 milking meta knowledge over everyone.This is not how you engage a community and earn the respect of players. You can try and cuck out of what you actually said, but we all know that IA mods will mute you at the drop of a hat if they are in a slight bad mood. IA has the same damn issues as it had when I first joined the test server in mid 2016 after Jerad linked me a bootleg Renegade copy and it's worth talking about.

Pushwall, Jerad/ECW alumni and the Rebarn devs (if they actually did anything and existed) have always been open to criticism and frustration ingame. It doesn't deserve to catch a mute, and this post makes me PROUD that I quit as a staff member of this community if this is considered to be a kosher course of action.
 

T. someone who used to LOVE Renegade, IA, APB, ECW, and the current attitude of the administration poisoned over a decade of goodwill they have tried to give the community. This shit is sickening, especially all the likes that support censoring INGAME CHAT that breaks NO RULES.
(DONT SAY THINGS WE DONT LIKE INGAME OR ELSE!)

Edited April 12, 2019 by Testament

[Veyrdite]

There's a difference between criticism and pissing & moaning.

I'm lucky enough to avoid most of this, but I can clearly see how things can go bad.

[KTFF]

6 hours ago, Veyrdite said:

There's a difference between criticism and pissing & moaning.

I'm lucky enough to avoid most of this, but I can clearly see how things can go bad.

Tomayto, Tomahto.

The point was keep it primarily on the forum and out of the game.

[Pushwall]

22 hours ago, Testament said:

Dehumanize your detractors, its an age old tactic.

22 hours ago, Testament said:

" live NPCs".

To be fair I also prefer that people post their criticisms and suggestions on the forum or discord simply because it won't get lost there, unlike ingame chat that resets with every map change, requires me to be there to see it unless I go through IRC logs, contains a lot of irrelevant fluff like kills and purchases (and IRC logs have even more fluff), and may just get skimmed over anyway because I'm busy trying to play the game. It's never fun to see a vague reference to a piece of criticism that was voiced while I was asleep and have to go diving through the bot's IRC logs to find out what the actual problem is that someone wants me to look at. Or for it to only come up in the heat of a battle where I'm not even reading chat. That said, muting people for being a critic ingame is absolutely not the right way to encourage them to do so on the forum instead, and assuming they're just trolls stuck in the past isn't healthy either.

On 4/11/2019 at 5:50 PM, KTFF said:

Most of the mods do not have the amazingly detailed custom models this one does. Hell most rip off assets from another one, throw a new skin on it and call it their own.

That's an odd definition of "most".

[KTFF]

      22 hours ago, KTFF said:

Most of the mods do not have the amazingly detailed custom models this one does. Hell most rip off assets from another one, throw a new skin on it and call it their own.

That's an odd definition of "most".

 

I am referring to gaming mods in a very high level general way here, not Ren or w3d specific. Doesn't much matter really as its not the point of my post.

[Pushwall]

4 minutes ago, KTFF said:

I am referring to gaming mods in a very high level general way here, not Ren or w3d specific. Doesn't much matter really as its not the point of my post.

You say most of "the" mods which gives a different impression. But thanks for clarifying

[KTFF]

Sorry for the confusion on that.

[TemporaryName]

@Testament do you know what is your problem? you talk to much instead play, as you can see from my log (which is not complete) you wrote 6702 lines of text  (who knows what is real number) while you have 158 recommendations at this moment. you killed 797 players and you destroyed 721 vehicles 
@notDMBhas even worse statistics but he is first to criticize almost every single thing.

Im not saying criticism is bad and I wont mute you for this but seriously you guys are wrong on so many levels that I cant even explain to you why you are wrong because you wont understand.
for example @notDMBsaid in first sentence in another topic:

Quote

100 Credit Infantry
Why do they even cost money? May as well be free for how useless they are.

and... he is wrong. already in the first sentence. he is not aware that 100$ home guard (and his mirror in Nod red tide rifleman) is the best character in map close_combat because he is fast, he has Anti Structure Tandem-warheads which is very good against tanks, long ranged lee enfield which can kill free characters in 1 shot AND 5 sticky bombs (1 more than needed) which can eliminate building in record time-only 21 seconds! hotwire needs 30s. imagine 2 x Daimler Armoured Car with 2x2 home guards in cold_wall power plant is dead in 5s? nobody can expect it in early game.
but he said that home guard is useless.
 

Quote

Tank Commanders are gimmicky and weak for their price, not really good in their intended role but they probably should be. Their dynamite is ridiculous and the only reason I think they’re actually undervalued, but nobody actually uses dynamite to one hit kill buildings either.

    Line 3682606: kwi 11 22:16:31 <ikmapsbot>    [BUILDINGKILL] LiMaDo destroyed the Hand of Nod (Dynamite VS. Hand of Nod)
    Line 3225270: mar 17 15:06:00 <ikmapsbot>    [BUILDINGKILL] henri99 destroyed the Hand of Nod (Dynamite VS. Hand of Nod)
Line 3697177: kwi 12 07:03:25 <ikmapsbot>    [BUILDINGKILL] Threve destroyed the GDI Infantry Barracks (Dynamite VS. Infantry Barracks)
[KILL]04 Geko400ri killed REpubilc (Dynamite VS. Engineer/Tarantula Laser Chaingun)
[19:03:11] 18<ikmapsbot18> 07[KILL]04 Geko400ri killed caprigtx (Dynamite VS. Delta Force Soldier/C.M4A1 Carbine)
[19:03:11] 18<ikmapsbot18> 07[VEHKILL]04 Geko400ri destroyed Tirani's Machine Gun Emplacement (Dynamite VS. Machine Gun Emplacement)

and so on...

he is wrong on almost every sentence, i cant even discuss with it because there is too much text, I would spend here whole week to say in english everything what I know and explain in details why exactly he is wrong and use suitable words to convince him

Edited April 12, 2019 by TemporaryName

[Testament]

5 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

@Testament do you know what is your problem? you talk to much instead play, as you can see from my log (which is not complete) you wrote 6702 lines of text  (who knows what is real number) while you have 158 recommendations at this moment. you killed 797 players and you destroyed 721 vehicles 
@notDMBhas even worse statistics but he is first to criticize almost every single thing.

Why dont you help @Threve write his guide instead of lording your meta knowledge over everyone and denigrating players who are frustrated? I have 10 years in ECW yet I'm not at the top of the stats (and would never be as my play style isn't just whoring records as though that's any sort of validation) its usually wise to help people out with honest and good intentions instead of shitting on them for being ignorant or not as skilled as yourself when they are willing to learn. 

I sure do talk a lot in a game I only play anymore because my friends play it. That'll happen. Check my total games and those stats will become more impressive as not everyone mains IA and only IA. Furthermore, the last thing you want is to alienate people interested in a dead and dying community who actually show a genuine interest in it.

As for Push, Roz proves my point. He wants people to not talk or get any socializing from the game. He wants people to act as AI, always playing the objective, never doing anything except spending every second ingame working to win it for your team. NO FUN ALLOWED. Not exactly "dehumanizing my detractors" but is more so an observation of who IA brass considers to be their ideal player, backed up by an IA moderators statements.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Testament

[TemporaryName]

because every player has his own knowledge based on his own experience, his own unique tactic and there is no universal guide.

if you really want to learn you should spend time on testing every single unit in every single situation instead wasting so much time on talking.

there is no other solution to learn this mod.

[Testament]

1 hour ago, TemporaryName said:

because every player has his own knowledge based on his own experience, his own unique tactic and there is no universal guide.

if you really want to learn you should spend time on testing every single unit in every single situation instead wasting so much time on talking.

there is no other solution to learn this mod.

I seem to do pretty good (and so does @notDMB. Honourable mention for Mack, but he is always a massive team player) when I spend most of the match talking as I tend to coordinate with my team. The trash talk and discussion is only a minor but important facet to me.

Why should every player have to navigate the more than 2 dozen tanks and infantry for each side when you, #1 on the server can help the community by assisting the new PR guy with his guide and wiki? You already know all the good combinations. I have my own, but it'd be nice to see them. I know most of the high level players are fans of chariot-ing to base defenses with dynamite to pad stats but this is a more nuanced game with many numerous strategies than just that.

P.S. Mind checking how many recommendations and overall kills I got from playing a couple games for me?

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Testament

[Jeod]

[TemporaryName]

you still dont understand.
you cant learn how to play this mod from thick book (especially written by me in polglish)
nobody can, especially player without any experience because this mod is too dynamic. there is too many maps, too many completely different situations, every game each team is different with different players with different skills and experience. the problem with static guide is that in 1 map with unique situation character/tank can be very useful but in next game on the same map its useless because situation was completely changed.

Quote

You already know all the good combinations.

unfortunately its not true. I wish i knew but the truth is that Im surprised by players' creativity every day.
 

Quote

I have my own, but it'd be nice to see them.

dont expect I reveal you my secrets in the guide because there is no secrets. everyone can just watch, copy me and I can copy the best strategies from other players. this is how this mod works, its much better than machine learning.

[notDMB]

Oh wow, Red Tide are good at cheese? Tell me something I didn't know, they're great on the worst map in the game and terrible everywhere else.

Why? Because they one shot free infantry. This never matters. Nobody uses infantry in this game except for a small handful the Red Tide is worthless against. They're building snipers, that's it. Any cheese strat works in that regard but cheese strats only work because nobody expects it, as you said. If that strategy suddenly becomes common and expected it ceases to work. That's why it's called cheese and "unexpected" as you said. 

And yes look at who those Tank Commanders are. One person who's extremely good at this game and actually knows Tank Commander dynamite is a one shot. The vast majority of the playerbase doesn't know that. And why would they, honestly? Why would a tank commander have a one hit kill charge? There's two, maybe three people in all of the community that routinely uses dynamite, everyone else who even bothers buying the unit does so for the awful regeneration they give. 

You also say my stats are bad but I'm one of the newest people to this game and I routinely top my team with tons of kills, and I could do better if I just spammed SSMs and point whored, or got a Pion and point whored, but I don't want to do that. The only bullshit units I enjoy using are the Goliaths and Fanatics. Actually respond to my main points, how about, instead of looking at two of my extremely minor issues with redundancy and "they're fine but what they're good at is irrelevant because infantry suck and half the things in this game one shot people so having a one shot rifle isn't exceptional it's just the mark of something even worse if you can't one shot with a headshot." That screenshot Testament posted feels dirty because I got a solid 8 kills with one grenadier. I would have died in 0.3 seconds in a real fight doing nothing except I was just lobbing grenade down a hallway and killed 4 Sydneys and 4 or so other infantry, but seriously, those things are complete and utter cheese, I already highlighted that in my main post.

[Testament]

7 hours ago, aaaaaaaa said:

There's no time for having side talks. Otherwise, for someone who thinks different, I'm not going to stop repeat "Find other game". Or other place to have a cozy talk with your friends.

Staying afk and having talks with friends is a disrespect to other people who really want to play.

Actually, there is plenty of time if you do smart things like mass up groups to attack instead of doing the retarded IA strategy of trickling tanks into the enemy one by one.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Testament

[notDMB]

It's dirty because it's no skill. You just hold down the mouse button and do ~100 splash damage per grenade until they leave or die. 

I love the infantry combat in Renegade-likes because it's quick, brutal, and extremely skill based. Except in this game where infantry combat is all about cheesing high explosives or just having a unit immune to headshots. You can still sorta get infantry combat going here on a rare matchup but uh, when I say "quick" I didn't mean "instantaneous." Having automatic weapons that kill in 2-3 headshots, or all the one hit kill rockets, or all the one hit kill regular basic rifles, or the "who needs to aim" high explosives, yeah you don't really get that many skill based matchups. Pretty much if you're a Sydney you can headshot Mendozas and Raveshaws to instagib them and they can't return the favor half as well. 

I ROUTINELY get destroyed by some players like Pushwall or Pyryle in APB because they're just better than me at the game. But even players that are really good here, I can still beat them in infantry "duels" because there's not actually very many of those, and you only need to land on average 1 headshot to win, unlike in APB where you need 3-5. I suppose this is why I spam the FUCK outta Shockies there since two body shots kill everything except Captains, but I mean, I still get destroyed by good Captains even when I spam that busted to fuck beauty. 

I'm getting off track. Yeah it feels dirty because I don't feel like I'm earning those kills. Fanatics are totally fun as hell because it's a game of psyching out and patience though. Those guys are totally broken for 300 credits but Mobius infantry are even more broken so I don't feel bad forcing GDI to diversify and do something else besides camp tunnels with a Sydney and click on heads. 

[Kickmofo]

I have been playing this great game now since demo (Circa 16 years) and tested some of the original IK maps with Yap and DB years ago. Do I like the maps, tanks & characters Yes & No some require a little tweaking here and there but not everyone including myself will ever be happy?

I think we just need to be grateful that YAP & dblaney1  still work on Renegade. Without them and people like Zunnie (RIP old friend) Renegade would be dead so I thank you for all your hard work!

Enjoy what we have while we still have it!!!

@dblaney1 - Fix the snipers LOL

[Threve]

On 4/23/2019 at 3:59 PM, aaaaaaaa said:

Things I like:

Big harvester ($1200)

Dynamite

Spy, Glock-17

Ion cannon and Nuclear strike beacons.

Devil flame tank

More Viceroids, got it.

[Kitsune Youkai]

Till Testament describes point of any person with at least one living braincell in this situation - there is no point in talking about it.

Otherwise:

If you dont want to hear "complaining" on server - add the rule to "!rules" so players which giving suggestions, fooling/joking about gameplay side, trying to objectly criticize your content - wont waste their time and be called "trolls" in the end, same as modders will be not enraged (by their a bit uncompetent/higly subjective vision in this situations).
     If you waiting something from people at your place - please make so people will know what they can or should do and what they can't and should not do - Make so person can get this important information on server, cuz not every player will see this thread or even care about this forum. + Its just logicaly correct.

Or add some "message of day" when player joining the server, or add some text at some corner of screen which saying - "We not taking, and not want to listen to any kinds of suggestion, critics, etc" - so again - people will not waste their time and nerves same as modders won't get some neurosis.

And till all of this not done - you guys looks(actually, you probably are) like just manipulators which want to get some ideas from side but dont wanna to "disturb" yourselves with how you treat this people.

If you dont want to make your server civilised by adding rules like "respect other people and yourself" - for example - at least do what i meantioned above

---------------------------------------------------------

Some minor things:

If person get muted - please name the reason of mute and again - add for what person can get a mute to - "!rules"

If person muted - it can't use and CMDs.... any. Thats frustrating. Its like you got a mute for some unexplained reason which you cant even see in server rules and after it - you can't even use veteran commands to improve your abillities on battlefield - its like double faceslap.

As result :

1. Sucking off Testament will lead to more positive and worthfull consequences (at least cuz this person mind something except his own point and what is more important - objective and wide point of view) than trying to got some experience or give some suggestions/help/etc with this team.

2. Personal question to KTFF which was provoked by his speech (even if this topic obviosly was written not by himself alone) - Is it very hard, painfull and expansive to make colorfull five-edged star tattoo on your's sphincter ?

 

Little advice - Think twice before posting your opinion/criticism/suggestions here - your object can easily be ignored by taking parts of your text out of context, and saying that this is your point, without even trying to see objection in your words. (I hope they are neutral(adequate) to form of suggestions when you just throwing some ideas/suff without even a word about must/should this be added or waits for some agreement)

 

 

So if you got here and still wanna help(in some way) this team - 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Kitsune Youkai

[TemporaryName]

@Kitsune Youkailol but people comment everything all the time in game and there is no problem.

sometimes they are right and admins see it and they change many many things in next version with huge update or just only tiny update. you must know that list of those things is so long that even me cant notice everything and they cant make the list (similiar to APB) because its too much text, im pretty sure nobody would read this lel. especially most of players because they dont even know about this forum i guess.

and sometimes they are wrong because they base on... i dont know. perfect example is geko400ri who is very good and experienced player but he sends messages like that very often:

Quote

Geko400ri: how does havoc not get instantly fanaticed

its obvious that its caused by his/enemy player lag+renegade netcode
but for him somehow its not obvious or... he is trolling, who knows?
if you read his message like this thousands of time:

Quote

Geko400ri: how many fucking times do I have to headshot people before they take damage
  Geko400ri: how did you see my commanche?
 Geko400ri: how did I die?
Geko400ri: how did you oneshot my mrls?
Geko400ri: how did I die so fast?
Geko400ri: HOW THE FUCK DID YOU SURVIVE
Geko400ri: how did I die

you would think he is right in every single thing every time and something seriously is really wrong (except renegade netcode from A.D. 2001) or... its just his point of view?

[Kitsune Youkai]

@TemporaryName

As for me - he is just kidding.

You know when you unexpectedly died in some game, from some absolutely minor thing and on emotions - you saying some funny thing/sweared. And thing is - you know that this is your own fault or just accidental thing, you just expressed your emotions.

He just droping this in chat because:

A - he feeling better after it.

B - he is bored

C - he is just fooling

D - any other thing which will fit and can be think out of first three possible reasons.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

you would think he is right in every single thing every time and something seriously is really wrong (except renegade netcode from A.D. 2001) or... its just his point of view?

If you&#39;re saying it from point that someone will see this kind of messages and make a conclusion about content and balancing aspekt... well, we both not <10 years old, so we both understanding that this is a bit dumb, you just cant make a conclusion about content based on this kind of talk, on @Geko400ring's example.

How i see it - 
*Geko got nuked* > *Geko expressed his indignation in chat* > *Limado joked out Geko/situation* > *Geko joked Limado* > *Both laughed and went killing people* > * I choked on water cuz i finding this pretty funny*

If you think that he trying to somehow(in some really impossible and magic way) blacken this server because he is not much pleased with balancing/gameplay aspekt... - then you or really paranoid or highly incompetent... or something else lol

Also.. why person should agree/disagree with any form of information it see(I just really see too many people like this or which seems to be last time). Its just imformation - notice it without any grading and improve your point of view/vision/etc later, for example.

If winning and being mvp is only thing which must(lol) makes you feel happy in multiplayer of... somewhat competitive nature - well then here is something really wrong with some people here, and not because thats their opinion, but because thats one and only possible objective opinion.  - Not personally you but here is plenty of this kind.

-----------------------------------------------------------

7 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

sometimes they are right and admins see it and they change many many things in next version with huge update or just only tiny update. you must know that list of those things is so long that even me cant notice everything and they cant make the list (similiar to APB) because its too much text

True, thats their own decision to write changelog or no. Still at least some amount of information is highly appreciated. ( and actually we getting this information from other topics/on server, so nice, thanks).

 Some really broken(at some point)/logic-killing units - will be tweaked only in next update, thing is - some of them where "broken" for years and people were talking about it till they got bored. - still annoying, still - thats their content - they have full right to do what they want to do.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Other thing is - if that on IA staff opinion

7 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

Quote

Geko400ri: how does havoc not get instantly fanaticed

its obvious that its caused by his/enemy player lag+renegade netcode
but for him somehow its not obvious or... he is trolling, who knows?
if you read his message like this thousands of time:

Quote

Geko400ri: how many fucking times do I have to headshot people before they take damage
  Geko400ri: how did you see my commanche?
 Geko400ri: how did I die?
Geko400ri: how did you oneshot my mrls?
Geko400ri: how did I die so fast?
Geko400ri: HOW THE FUCK DID YOU SURVIVE
Geko400ri: how did I die

Is possibly a way of trolling and blackening of server content or if you just not appreciate it(as moderator) cuz you're triggered by it - then everyone who is here and not IA staff is in wrong place

Key word :

Quote

Other thing is - if that on IA staff opinion....

--------------------------------

7 hours ago, TemporaryName said:

im pretty sure nobody would read this lel. especially most of players because they dont even know about this forum i guess.

Im reading this, so we already have at least two living persons which knows about last two replies, woo-yay.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Kitsune Youkai

[Threve]

On 5/14/2019 at 4:01 PM, Kitsune Youkai said:

To KTFF: Is it very hard, painfull and expansive to make colorfull five-edged star tattoo on your's sphincter ?

 

[Kitsune Youkai]

From "Shotgunning Practice" topic 

On 4/18/2019 at 5:01 PM, Threve said:

Honestly there are so many factors going into this it isn’t worth worrying or stressing over

True

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also

On 4/11/2019 at 7:50 PM, KTFF said:

<ktffsoapbox>

Seems like we are constantly fielding rants about the mod. Constructive criticism is certainly welcome, but some folks are way over the top and have nothing positive to contribute (trolls I say). Probably hardcore old sk00l Ren fans that cant seem to let go of what Ren started out to be almost 20 years ago. Ren will always have a fond place in my gaming heart, but frankly I would have walked away a long time ago from Ren had it not been for IA.

A ton of work has gone into this mod, and continues. Most of the mods do not have the amazingly detailed custom models this one does. Hell most rip off assets from another one, throw a new skin on it and call it their own. Point being there is a lot of really cool stuff going on in this mod, and it keeps getting better.

Maybe on occasion you can think beyond your infatuation with trying to tear something down constantly. Try and appreciate the positives. Hell go really crazy and maybe even compliment the work.

 

NOTE -  If you want to criticize, rant, complain that is fine. However, keep it to a MINIMUM in game.

Post all you like here in the forums. The rest of us in game do not want to hear your constant pissing and moaning. 

For those with reading comprehension issues, I will reiterate. I did not say you cant complain at all in game. Just no mass rants about all the various things you want changed, think are OP, broken, etc. Write a book here on the forum if you wish. I will not sit back and let you go on and on in game. You will be muted.

</ktffsoapbox>

 

Joke Fact is - its still appropriate

Edited May 16, 2019 by Kitsune Youkai