Games {Game Over} {CYOR} Spooky Scary Scumhunting

[OrangeP47]

3 minutes ago, Jeod said:

It's the loot box mechanics that get you, but it's 100% free

[Jeod]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

It's the loot box mechanics that get you

[ChopBam]

On 11/4/2019 at 3:07 AM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

That's a strong case. I haven't had a whole lot of spare time this week, but especially today I've been feeling like we must be missing something. I thought I was starting to understand this game when it was looking like Louis was Mafia, but now that's out the window. We're to the point now that something we think has been happening must be wrong.

I know I said this already and I know I should have done this myself by now (I'd do it right now, but I'm already 2 hours late to sleep while I try to reread stuff), but I think we need to go back and review the vote trains so far, especially Day 2.

I'll do it myself if I survive the night. For anyone else who wants to do the work in the meantime, look at the votes in order and look at who benefited from votes that were made to try to find who might be helping someone else. Also look to see who puts someone else more at risk. Those people are less likely to be teammates. In a game this small, the latter example should almost never happen, especially late in the vote.

In regards to Nodlied/KY specifically, I have a couple points to add as I was coming to a similar conclusion but from a different angle. It is indeed strange that he roleblocked ChopBam. While we've been using that fact to rule him out as the killer, I wonder about that. On N1 there wasn't a roleblock, so Nodlied could have done something else. We only have Nodlied's word that multiple people visiting him means that his roleblock is stopped and he gimmicks someone in return. That could just be a passive that would happen anyway, meanwhile his actual action was to kill FRAYDO. KY driving him to Mojoman, is that really what happened, or is that a cover story? With your example, FRAYDO, that would make two separate ways for these two to be covering for each other.

Being as this was Cat5's last post here, these are some pretty weak points, if I'm to be honest.

"We must be missing something." This would only be the case if Cat5 is town, which is nearly impossible for me to see right now seeing alibis. Reviewing vote trains, how would that accomplish more right now than seeing solid alibis, especially when we wouldn't know who scum is, so it's hard to know who's saving whom? Seems like an attempted distraction.

Why would Cat5 suspect that he won't survive the night? First off, if he's a hider, he's got a really good chance of surviving. And secondly, he's a prime scum suspect, so if he's town, why the hell would scum target him when someone like Sunflower is still around?

And now we have further evidence that Nodlied is town, which in two ways renders that last paragraph of a case against him and KY to be pretty dim. In addition to this Nodlied evidence, my direct N1 alignment result on KY was neutral.

[Sunflower]

I'm having a hard time figuring out who Cat 5's partner would be if he were scum. Seems like most everyone here has wanted him lynched today or a different day. Then again I guess with the claims he's chosen to make, there's not much to defend him with.

[OrangeP47]

So like, Cat 5 hasn't posted at all today, right?

[Sunflower]

Pretty much.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I had a surprise 12 hour shift yesterday and went to sleep right after. So sorry I'm not here to report at the obligated time.

I decided not to target anyone during N3, so as to prevent the possibility that two people die on the same night. I was hoping that ChopBam would find me and confirm that as well, but it seems all he did was pass the amulet to me again.

[Killing_You]

Working on a case right now, but in the meantime, @Category 5 Hurricane care to share your thoughts?

[FRAYDO]

I say! Welcoming Killing_You into my factory seems to have been a good move! It looks to be quite a solid case, and I will allow him the honors to present it.

[Nodlied]

21 hours ago, Sunflower said:

Also I have a pumpkin on my head.

You're welcome. 

 

4 hours ago, ChopBam said:

First off I suspected him as a scum roleblocked, and then there was the gimmick as well. Secondly, in the event Nodlied was town, I'm assuming Cat5 has some sort of night protection, so clearing others is the next best thing to legit copping scum.

Honestly, by now, Cat5 has been the only one who we haven't been able to confirm. Do we have his voting history? If so, a lack of votes on a player or a lack of endangering votes could tell us something.

Btw, sorry that I've been pretty absent lately.  The flu combined with long working hours (started at 08:00, finished at 17:30, only to work at home until 20:30) doesn't really allow me to do much.

 

[Nodlied]

13 minutes ago, FRAYDO said:

I say! Welcoming Killing_You into my factory seems to have been a good move! It looks to be quite a solid case, and I will allow him the honors to present it.

I'm eagerly awaiting his case.

(Although I might be in bed before it drops.)

[Sunflower]

##antibiotics Nodlied

Hope you feel better!

(it's not a real action)

[Nodlied]

5 minutes ago, Sunflower said:

##antibiotics Nodlied

Hope you feel better!

(it's not a real action)

Thanks!

I was pretty darn ill on Thursday and Wednesday, but I instructed my students to study for a test, to be taken on those days, so I went through anyway. Feeling better since yesterday, so back to work it has been.

[Retaliation]

31 minutes ago, Sunflower said:

##antibiotics Nodlied

Hope you feel better!

a(it's not a real action)

Action Resolved

(it's not a real resolution)

[Killing_You]

24 minutes ago, FRAYDO said:

I say! Welcoming Killing_You into my factory seems to have been a good move! It looks to be quite a solid case, and I will allow him the honors to present it.

Thank you very much, Mr. Wonka.

1 hour ago, Sunflower said:

I'm having a hard time figuring out who Cat 5's partner would be if he were scum. Seems like most everyone here has wanted him lynched today or a different day. Then again I guess with the claims he's chosen to make, there's not much to defend him with.

Well, I believe I know who it could be. 

And now, without further ado...

THE CASE OF THE PEOPLE v. CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE & ORANGEP47

PART I: PROCESS OF ELIMINATION

So, let's start with where we stand as far as the players go. I estimate that we have 3 town, 2 neutral, and 2 scum. With FRAYDO and I as the neutrals, that leaves Nodlied, Sunflower, ChopBam, Orange, and Cat5.

-Sunflower could be ruled out immediately for doctoring FRAYDO and herself.

-ChopBam's cop claim isn't one that I find myself doubting on any level. If he was a false cop, he could've easily claimed that Nodlied was scum for a swift and easy mislynch. Then, just nightkill one of the two remaining townies, and bam! Scum win. Furthermore, he has been rather cleverly softclaiming this whole game without it looking like him trying to set up a false claim in advance. I think we can clear him easily.

-Nodlied, among other things (like being very helpful), was copped Town.

That narrows us down to Cat5 and Orange. Convenient, eh? Well, let me see if we can back this idea up.

PART II: THE EVIDENCE

Let's start by reminding everyone that Orange has been a scum mason in the past. In that instance, he masoned with me to gain my trust, and used that to carry himself to the end.

On 10/30/2019 at 12:25 PM, OrangeP47 said:

Wouldn't I like get some instructions as to what happened or if I'm gimmicked though?  I'm not just gonna take your word for it.

Regardless, I'm always scum, especially when I'm not

This was directly after iLikeToSnipe cast a fake action on Orange, one that implied that Orange would receive consequences if he lied. So, he starts off by dancing around the classic "r u scum" question and playing it off as a joke.

On 10/30/2019 at 12:31 PM, OrangeP47 said:

No I'm a mason and a pretty weak investigative role that gets somewhat stronger as the game goes on, that's another reason to use the masonry first.

And then he gives a direct answer. Notice that it has to do with his role, not his alignment.

On 10/30/2019 at 3:21 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I don't want to reveal what my action is yet, but I will say that my target was Louis. Something weird happened, though. Something that should have been impossible.

Also, i haven't had much time to post, but I've been watching the thread off an on while my dad is here helping me work on the house. I don't like Orange's reactions at all. And it seems there are a lot of misdirection actions. This could be a difficult game to untangle.

Let's take a second to look at Cat5. Remember how I said Chop was softing without looking like he was deliberately setting up a false claim? This is the inverse. Here, this looks like a false claim being set up. There's also a bit of shade tossed specifically at Orange, though it's kind of weak on content.

On 10/30/2019 at 7:57 PM, Killing_You said:

Well, here's the problem; A little birdie told me that FRAYDO is neutral, and even managed to mention something about his role that was basically confirmed when it was revealed that the item FRAYDO passed was a ticket. Orange wasn't responsive as to how he got this information, but my working theory is that he has a partner, and that partner is either Cat5 or Louis.

So, here I reveal FRAYDO's alignment to keep town from going after him. I also felt that since Orange wasn't responding privately about the origin of the information in question, this would nudge him to being more responsive.

On 10/31/2019 at 9:06 AM, OrangeP47 said:

I'm not gonna reveal my sources, but I do have info on FRAYDO. Also KY hasn't been entirely truthful because I gave him evidence that FRAYDO has been lying and he didn't share that with the class.

FRAYDO has an item thief ability which he didn't claim, as well as the possibility to perhaps change people's alignments.

Orange follows up by revealing more about FRAYDO's role, this time seemingly designed to paint him in a more negative light. Note the difference in tone and intent. There's also the fact that he basically called me a liar (and you all know what good mafia players do with liars...)

On 10/31/2019 at 1:38 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Sigh. You're really going to make me reveal my role already, huh?

I'm a Hider. I hid behind Louis. The mechanics of being a Hider means I can't be directly targeted, thus why I was originally very confused why I received an item while hiding. Turns out the only way I could have received an item was if my target, Louis, happened to pass me one.

I think we should go for Orange or nolynch

##vote OrangeP47

Cat5 reveals his claim, along with a quick vote on Orange. No reason given, though.

On 10/31/2019 at 1:41 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I'll also explain that the reason why I think FRAYDO and Sunflower could be faking the failed kill is because the kill could have failed if it was directed at me. I don't think it's very likely, but I do think it is possible, so I won't dismiss the idea.

But he follows up by suggesting a FRAYDO/Sunflower scum team possibility. It felt like he was trying to get us to put more faith in that while still seeing that he voted for Orange.

On 10/31/2019 at 2:21 PM, Killing_You said:

As a side note, given some thought, I don't think Orange is scum. Why would scum rolecop the person that they're trying to kill? That makes no sense.

This is my one sticking point with this scenario, but it's becoming less and less of a major flaw to me. It could just be a false contradiction for one reason or another. However, any explanations are welcome.

On 10/31/2019 at 4:37 PM, Killing_You said:

Votes piling up on NoLynch, so I don't feel the need to keep up my vote anymore. However, I don't like how iLTS has been dancing around the question of reads, so he's high on my list. And if I cross-reference the list of possible suspects based on claimed actions with the list of people whose actions can be linked to their items and are therefore not clear, Louis shows up on both. I can't quite prove that those two are on a team, but there's no real evidence in the opposite direction, either. I'm putting my vote on Louis, but I'm open to switching to iLikeToSnipe.

##vote Louis

And now we get to the iLTS train, which I said I will expand upon. Now, I gave my reasoning in this post. I was wanting a Louis lynch, but I also said that I'd support an iLTS lynch.

On 10/31/2019 at 4:40 PM, Jeod said:

Nodlied agrees with my assessment and questions why iLTS is allowed to perform random actions that may or may not work (doesn't sound like a town role).

##vote iLikeToSnipe

Jeod's reasoning wasn't consolidated in a single post, since he and iLTS had been going at it for a while. However, he also claims that Nodlied discussed the situation with him in their doc, and I see no reason to consider either of them in the wrong.

On 10/31/2019 at 4:42 PM, FRAYDO said:

My death resulting from following Jeod is a possibility still, and something I want to consider for this post. Were that the case, iLTS would be at fault for sending me to my death. I'm currently not sold on a scum iLTS forcing me to follow a scum Jeod only for me to survive and have gained some knowledge. Were Jeod responsible for my death and I stayed dead, iLTS could have simply not claimed any control at all and left my NK a mystery. However, maybe Sunflower's save threw a wrench in that plan completely.

Jeod and iLTS may be our team.

##vote iLikeToSnipe

FRAYDO's reasoning. Rather solid, if ultimately wrong.

I thought I grabbed my actual vote quote, but apparently not. Anyway, right after this I followed up on my earlier post and supported the lynch.

So that was the infamous train. As I said, mostly accidental, especially given how close the posts were to each other in time.

On 10/31/2019 at 4:52 PM, OrangeP47 said:

I'd unvote to let this happen, but eh, I'll own it. I did say he was suspicious for much the same reasons as everyone else has said.

##Vote ILTS

Wait, we forgot the caboose. This time, it seems a bit half hearted.

Afterwards, rip iLTS. Mojo turned up dead N2, and we move on to D3.

On 11/1/2019 at 5:55 PM, Louis said:

First off, you guys talk about the Dutch gimmick was that the moment everyone spoke Dutch?

Secondly, last night I tried to steal and item from Jeod but didn't succeed because he didn't have any items.

Third, with the amulet it was the description that I got I must've change and I dont know what it says now, because I don't have it anymore.

 

On 11/1/2019 at 5:57 PM, OrangeP47 said:

What? That's not what my report showed? My report showed you did nothing 0_o

This discrepancy continues to bother me. My brain has gone through several possibilities, but at this point, I think there's one very simple solution. We'll get to that later.

On 11/1/2019 at 6:01 PM, OrangeP47 said:

Well my track is random (exclude one) so I didn't exactly pick. I thought it was just claimed BP anyway, though it's not exactly like Louis is known for explaining things.  She did previously claim not to have any abilities though aside from that I'm pretty sure, so now being a thief should be a red flag.

Keep this in mind. Orange believed (with good reason) that Louis had no night actions.

On 11/3/2019 at 2:06 AM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Wow, you flipped your argument pretty fast. Not sure how I'm managing to be suspicious both for "working with Louis" and "not working with Louis" at pretty much the same time. Feels pretty familiar, given ChopBam and iLTS making opposite arguments against me last game for "being too narrow minded" to "considering too many possibilities" but this time it's two people on both sides of the fence. Real cute.

Let's back this suspicion bus back to where it started, yeah? You decided earlier that I was suspicious because my story couldn't be verified and maybe I was working with Louis to make said story. Then with literally no new information, you decide actually I wouldn't be bussing my partner so clearly I'm the only scum. But now you've forgotten the basis of your argument. If Louis and I are not partners, than how does the supposed lie I am making work? I reported my target and the fact that I had somehow magically gotten an item before she revealed who she passed the item to. If I was faking the hider claim and picked someone other than Louis as my fake target, I'm found out right away because Louis can claim she passed an item to me and boom, I'm caught. Makes no sense to make this kind of claim. Why wouldn't I just stay quiet about it or come up with something else?

I think your argument that I'm actually working with Louis actually makes more sense, frankly. 

And to that I say:

##vote Louis

And here's Cat5's heftiest post in the game so far. Notice how it's heavily weighted against Jeod, and yet he votes Louis. How did that go unnoticed? Looking back, it looks like he's setting up something for after Louis (who was Suspect Alpha at the time) got lynched.

On 11/3/2019 at 6:24 AM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I've been told scum might kill me if I target them, which is perhaps my hint that the person who I target can still target me successfully. Balance wise that adjustment is usually made when the GM does not want the Hider to be a sort of cop.

Questions about his role came up, and he had this to say. Rather wishy-washy, more of an excuse to get people to stop asking questions than an actual explanation.

On 11/3/2019 at 11:21 AM, OrangeP47 said:

On Louis vs Cat 5:  TBH they're both rubbing me the wrong way. Obviously I have more personal interaction with Louis here, and that would tend to bias me towards wanting to vote her, so I feel like I need to dive deeper into Cat 5 to make sure I don't overlook him. Cat 5 seems less verifiable than Louis, for one thing, but on the other hand, Louis being obstinate is pretty anti-town.  Vengeful scum has a precedent (in the first game I hosted) so I'm wary of that. Honestly, what are our thoughts on Cat 5 - Louis scum team? It might have been ruled out and I missed it, but if it's a possibility, I'd want to go for Cat 5 first, so we can deal with the possible vengeful claim last, because if we hit that in the middle our odds of succeeding go down as our force for the next day is diminished.

Here, Orange tosses some shade Cat5's way, but again, not a whole lot of meat. Instead, it's leaning a bit more in the Louis direction, but still looks like he's distancing himself from Cat5.

On 11/3/2019 at 12:56 PM, OrangeP47 said:

As I said previously, I'm fine with either Cat 5 or Louis. I wanted discussion about a team between the two of them but that didn't materialize.  For the moment I'll vote Cat 5 in hopes of getting the trains close so we can analyze any possible hopping back and forth to look for partners.  The fact that I say this I don't suspect will actually influence scum

##Vote Cat 5

 

On 11/3/2019 at 12:57 PM, Retaliation said:

 

Players	Votes
Cat5	Louis
Chopbam	Louis
FRAYDO
iLikeToSnipe
Jeod	Louis
Killing You
Louis	Jeod
Mojoman
Nodlied
OrangeP47	Cat5
Sunflower	Louis

And later, Orange votes for Cat5, but I want you to note the context. Notice how there's a bunch of Louis votes, and he's the only Cat5 vote? Yet, he didn't provide an adequate argument other than "I want close trains," which is not enough in my book.

Soon after, Louis lashes out and kills Jeod.

On 11/3/2019 at 2:26 PM, OrangeP47 said:

##Vote Louis

Orange, understandably, is quick to vote Louis. However, by this point, there were also some Cat5 votes. It could easily be seen as him wanting to find a way to unsuspiciously unvote Cat5, and the opportunity was handed to him on a silver platter.

On 11/3/2019 at 3:42 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Furthermore, while I have been told that scum might be able to target me in that way, it doesn't say anything about other alignments doing the same. I may have been making in incorrect assumption that my targets can still target me, it may just be if my target is scum.

And more wishy-washy stuff.

21 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

I tracked KY to Cat 5. Not the best result, but I excluded Sunflower, and I can only work with what I have.

Amazingly convenient, isn't it? Especially since I expressly stated that my goal was to forklift Cat5 right after the Louis lynch. I bet Cat5 didn't target anyone because he was warned in the scumdoc.

So, Orange's tracking claims are: Track Louis to nowhere (RESULT: Discrepancy due to her visiting Jeod even though she claimed no actions), and track me to Cat5 (RESULT: Successful, although he was informed beforehand). He also claims that this track is RNG -1, which while odd, isn't too wild. So, what's the explanation for the N2 discrepancy and N3 convenience? Simple: He was lying.

PART III: CONCLUSION

In closing, I'd like you to consider the following; Cat5 and Orange are the scumteam. Cat5 tried to kill FRAYDO, either one was responsible for Mojo, and Orange tried to kill Sunflower. My vote currently rests on Cat5, but I will support an Orange lynch as well. I will not support any other lynch.

Now, good day to you all. I hope you agree with my findings.

[OrangeP47]

Did you forget the part where Louis ADMITTED to having a passive that interferes with a track?

[Killing_You]

2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Did you forget the part where Louis ADMITTED to having a passive that interferes with a track?

I... did. I stand by everything else, though.

[OrangeP47]

Also, wagonomics are like my thing. I haven't done it for awhile for various reasons, but I could give valid excuses for why not for each recent game. That's not suspicious.

[OrangeP47]

Though TBF I should be used to people getting annoyed at me for doing wagonomics but I'm not gonna apologize for it.

[FRAYDO]

48 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Did you forget the part where Louis ADMITTED to having a passive that interferes with a track?

So your first response is to refute nothing of KY’s post and only cherry-pick the one mistake he made.

Got it.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, FRAYDO said:

So your first response is to refute nothing of KY’s post and only cherry-pick the one mistake he made.

Got it.

I'm pretty sure that IS refuting some of it.

[OrangeP47]

Like if you want me to offer some big alternative, well, I've said before, I think there's 1 scum, and it's Cat 5. I see no need to change my view based on KY's posting. Nor should it be my job alone solely to work on said alternative.

I suppose I could answer more questions, but you caught me at dinner time, and I'm about to AFK.

[ChopBam]

2 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

I say! Welcoming Killing_You into my factory seems to have been a good move! It looks to be quite a solid case, and I will allow him the honors to present it.

Forgive me for being ignorant of your role, but does this mean you've opened a masonry with him last night?

[Killing_You]

30 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Forgive me for being ignorant of your role, but does this mean you've opened a masonry with him last night?

Yes. He had a golden ticket that he handed to me, allowing me to mason with him and him alone.

48 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Like if you want me to offer some big alternative, well, I've said before, I think there's 1 scum, and it's Cat 5. I see no need to change my view based on KY's posting. Nor should it be my job alone solely to work on said alternative.

I suppose I could answer more questions, but you caught me at dinner time, and I'm about to AFK.

A small part of me believes that, which is why I was Cat5 lynched first. If the game keeps going after he gets lynched, expect a vote from me in your future.

[ChopBam]

Is the vote on Cat5 too easy? We've put a lot of pressure on and there isn't much fight here. 

[ChopBam]

Latest chart:

Spooky Players	D1	N1	D2	N2	D3	N3
Category 5	<No Vote>	Hid behind Louis Received amulet from Louis	OrangeP47	Hid behind Louis	Louis	<No Action>
ChopBam	OrangeP47	Visited Killing_You	No Lynch	Attempted to visit Nodlied Roleblocked Received amulet	Louis	Visited Nodlied Amulet passed
FRAYDO	FRAYDO	Passed ticket to iLTS Forced to follow Jeod to Nodlied	iLikeToSnipe	Passed ticket to KY	<No Vote>	Opened masonry with Killing_You
Killing_You	Spare Voe	BUS DRIVER / Nodlied	iLikeToSnipe	BUS DRIVER / ChopBam	Louis	BUS DRIVER / Category 5
Nodlied	Voe	Redirected to Mojoman, Forcing Dutch gimmick	<No Vote>	Was put into/given a pumpkin Roleblocked ChopBam and Jeod	Cat5	Gave pumpkin to Sunflower
OrangeP47	Voe	Masonry w/ KY Used profiler on FRAYDO	iLikeToSnipe	RNG tracked Louis, (saw no actions) Passed profiler	Louis	RNG tracked Killing_You (to Category 5)
Sunflower	Voe	Doctored FRAYDO	No Lynch	Doctored Orange	Louis	Pumpkin received, Doctored self
iLikeToSnipe	Voe	Received ticket from FRAYDO Gave FRAYDO bonus action	No Lynch / Dead	---	---	---
Mojoman	Jeod	Redirected to Nodlied, presumably passing pumpkin	<No Vote>	Died	---	---
Jeod	Spare Voe	Masonry w/ Nodlied	iLikeToSnipe	Roleblocked	Died ---	---
Louis	Spare Voe	Passed amulet to Cat5 No action claim	<No Vote>	Attempted steal from Jeod, but no items	Lynched	---
[RESULT]	Effectively No Lynch	NK failed, FRAYDO was saved	iLTS died town	Mojoman died town	Louis died TP	NK failed, Sunflower was saved

[ChopBam]

On 10/31/2019 at 7:06 AM, OrangeP47 said:

FRAYDO has an item thief ability which he didn't claim, as well as the possibility to perhaps change people's alignments.

This is one bit that would be very concerning to me if true.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

This is one bit that would be very concerning to me if true.

I'm not sure if being heir would make someone scum, per se, but I could see it making them neutral or TP possibly.

That said, over dinner, I did start to have something of an alternate theory...

KY could be some kind of godfather that doesn't show as town, but as neutral, as having two neutrals and a TP seems like an awful lot to dump on us. This recent post could be an attempt to link me with Cat 5, and they're actually going to switch to me at the last moment, giving them the edge, or something.

[OrangeP47]

KY did make a claim to me that his alignment could change too. He talks as if it hasn't happened, but what if it DID happen, assuming he actually was neutral. That gives us TWO possible ways he could be in on all of this.

The actual claim is that he has a second life, and if he dies he revives as a different alignment.

[Sunflower]

I'd been thinking KY would be the safest lynch just because if he's not scum, he's not town either. Not sure what to make of this new info.