Games [GAME OVER] Tiberian Sun: Reborn Mafia I

[Category 5 Hurricane]

If we're talking things that might be changed from the role sheet, the max number of them would be the most likely thing to be changed.

[Shade939]

4 minutes ago, Voe said:

There is no jumpjet on the rolesheet. Moreover, the rolesheet specifically describes the sane and the insane cop, omitting the naive and the paranoid. I think there's a chance for both sane and insane cops to be in the game. Especially if multiple chameleon's are around.

Max 1

[Voe]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

Max 1

Yes, it's what it says. But after Orange's death it's clear the game isn't 100% rolesheet.

[Voe]

@Shade939whom do you sus today?

[Shade939]

5 minutes ago, Voe said:

Yes, it's what it says. But after Orange's death it's clear the game isn't 100% rolesheet.

That sounds like an attempt to set up a fake claim by a cop later on...

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Honestly Shade, having been in these games before, it wouldn't be a shock at all to see two cops.

[Voe]

3 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

That sounds like an attempt to set up a fake claim by a cop later on...

??? what

[Shade939]

8 minutes ago, Voe said:

@Shade939whom do you sus today?

At the moment, literally everyone.

I don't even seem like I have a support for what would amount to a 50/50 vote for Town...

[Shade939]

Just now, Voe said:

??? what

A fairly standard practice in open setups with a cop in them is for a Nod player to counterclaim the Cop. It does give you a 50/50 though, unless you have an exscuse for the counter claim.

[Retaliation]

Shade's giving me strong mojo vibes right now.

[Voe]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

A fairly standard practice in open setups with a cop in them is for a Nod player to counterclaim the Cop. It does give you a 50/50 though, unless you have an exscuse for the counter claim.

You can counterclaim the cop regardless of the number of cops in the game. It doesn't require a set up. If one cop calls the other cop to be scum, one of them is lying and the number of cops in the match doesn't pay a role.

[Retaliation]

If there are two cops you could have a situation where the cops counterclaim each other.

[Voe]

Just now, Retaliation said:

If there are two cops you could have a situation where the cops counterclaim each other.

Yes, and?

[Shade939]

1 minute ago, Voe said:

Yes, and?

What if one of them gave a fake cop report but didn't counterclaim the other? Which one was right then?

[TheIrishman]

7 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

This reads pretty scummy to me.

First, scum are "dumb" for taking out a veteran player with a power role. I did not believe Orange's claim when he made it, and I'm only believing his flavor claim right now. Either he couldn't do what he claimed or he could and scum had a specific counter ready to go. I think the first option is much more likely (maybe JJ was actually a watcher?) and Orange was trying to avoid a kill attempt. Obviously that didn't work, so is it really dumb for scum to have made this kill?

Second, this doesn't seem like a gamble (for reasons I just mentioned) and it isn't the kind of "gamble" I'd make. Killing Orange removes a player who is a threat on their own and potentially removes a power role. What's a gamble about that?

Third, I don't think a lynch on Orange was that likely today. He almost certainly would have still been at least in my top three suspects today. But that's just me. There didn't seem to be many others who were discussing an Orange lynch yesterday (I think only Jeod had besides the others who voted). Given what others have said already, I don't think Orange would be a "safe" lynch for town or mafia today.

Finally, Irishman wraps this up with a pointless throwaway at Anon. He's suspicious of Anon for metagame reasons, but that should be ignored because it's not "technically how you're supposed to play". So why even mention it? That seems like he's priming Anon for a future lynch of opportunity.

I don't agree with Irish's assertions about Orange's death at all. What I get from this is that he's not scum hunting, he's throwing stuff out there to tee up people for a lynch.

Neat, its only not a dumb move if you raise Orange's value as a scumhunter to supercede the value of a gun, plus potential medic, cop, RB, or tracker. Hopefully you're not offended by me calling scum dumb.

[Voe]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

What if one of them gave a fake cop report but didn't counterclaim the other? Which one was right then?

Then there's also the third cop who, for whatever reason, remains silent.

[Shade939]

Just now, Voe said:

Then there's also the third cop who, for whatever reason, remains silent.

Great, maybe you have three different cop reports to pick from.

[Shade939]

It would be sabotaging GDI if there was actually more than one real Cop in game.

[Retaliation]

Weren't you guys complaining about GDI being too strong?

[Shade939]

4 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

Weren't you guys complaining about GDI being too strong?

Specifically, that was Voe. I did agree that the abundance of BP did place a greater emphasis on the  importance of the day phase and the actions used in it.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

That abundance is far more than it really appears, given that most of it can only be used once, and the player has to guess the right phase to use it. And we don't know what was really going on with Orange, either.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I worded that statement wrong, I mean to say that there isn't as much BP as it appears.

[Nodlied]

1 hour ago, Retaliation said:

Shade has obviously never rolled four 1s on 5 d6.

*Cries in completely wasted first turn in a 2000pt game.*

[Shade939]

5 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I worded that statement wrong, I mean to say that there isn't as much BP as it appears.

And it is counterbalanced out, by the fact GDI only has two investigative roles.

A Cop, who can be sane or insane so they don't know the correct alignment results until they investigate themselves, and can be flat out wrong if they investigate a Spy.

And a Tracker who has to very specifically track a target to the NK, and could still wind up outing their own teammates.

[Shade939]

The Riot Trooper cancels themselves out, since they could have also saved their target from the NK.

[iLikeToSnipe]

9 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:

Neat, its only not a dumb move if you raise Orange's value as a scumhunter to supercede the value of a gun, plus potential medic, cop, RB, or tracker. Hopefully you're not offended by me calling scum dumb.

The "threat" of a gun to scum depends on who has it. Even if somebody who's town is the gunman, that can still be a boon for them if it's somebody they believe they can manipulate. A power role is almost never something that can be manipulated to work out positively for scum.

I'd say there are three categories of scum kills (assuming a competent scum team):

1. Kill a confirmed or suspected power role to remove its utility from town
2. Kill a player they know to be not-scum that has a reputation for quality scum hunting
3. Make a kill that falls into a long-term scheme (this even includes picking a random player to cause confusion)

Orange definitely falls into those first two, so I am not inclined to believe it's the third possibility. Maybe there's some grander scheme going on, but I just don't see it. As you yourself noted, "It would've been so much easier to kill someone else and then push Orange to be lynched to starting on Mojo". So you don't even think it's part of some scum gambit.

You claim it's because "scum are dumb", but what would make you believe that? Even with what I've just typed, I can't say for certain why mafia killed Orange. But what's important is that I can see several good reasons why they'd kill him. Does that make it for sure the best move? Maybe not. Is there anything to indicate it's a dumb move? No.

At best, this is a poorly founded theory from town that doesn't do anything to help. Because of the scum/suspect reads you just dropped into your post and haven't done anything to follow up on, that's not what I'm thinking it is.

[Shade939]

And the Medic can only claim a players innocence if they stop the NK itself, and they can very easily be counterclaimed, or the claim could be faked by Mafia refusing to NK.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Shade939 said:

The Riot Trooper cancels themselves out, since they could have also saved their target from the NK.

I was going to add that we've got up to two protective roles. One does prevent the target from doing anything at all, but it still gives them NK protection. So there is more BP going around than just the Dig In action.

[iLikeToSnipe]

On 12/15/2020 at 7:51 AM, TheIrishman said:

I'm getting strong town reads on both iLTS and Jeod. Very unusual, mostly for iLTS.

Mojo and Louis are a toss via attitude, but are most likely not partnered.

Shade and Louis can't be partnered.

Orange and iLTS can't be partnered to Mojo.

 

22 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

Well that's a shame. I went after Mojo since I was trying to quickly read the posts and pick out the most likely scum. Mojo didn't consider killing cat5 (who's joke I didn't pick up at the time as I was trying to read fast), he was the second to claim a custom role, started the Louis train which seemed like he was pushing an easy lynch, threatened iLTS who reads town for me, and was the scummiest read I had. That is all.

 

15 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

I think scum did a dumb move. Orange was Town, his power role was self preservation, and he already fired his shot. It would've been so much easier to kill someone else and then push Orange to be lynched to starting on Mojo.

Honestly makes me suspect Jeod less. iLTS, I'm not as sure as I was before as he likes to gamble his plays.

 

@TheIrishman What's suddenly changed for you? Did you kill Orange to try and frame multiple town members? D1 and N1 you believed I was town and never made any mention of Jeod after saying you thought he was town. Then suddenly D2 you're "suspecting Jeod less" and now I'm a suspect? I take one look at your posts for this game and every single one of your past five posts is a scum tell.

##vote TheIrishman

[Retaliation]

Why do I get the impression that iLTS is arguing that it's not a dumb kill because he made the kill