Event [GAME OVER]Back to Basics II: Classic APB Mafia

[Voe]

Fak. Phone.

 

I don't buy chopbams soft claim because there are few types of cops in the role sheet. Blind claiming one of them risks a counterclaim. Being as ambiguous as it gets is an escape Gate which a real COP wouldnt need.

[Jeod]

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, isn't it also possible that we have 2 scum and 1 SK/Vig?

[Voe]

Jeod, what do you think about choppy?

[Alstar]

I just realized that Mojoman got NK after his idea to heal Vertigo - and turned out to be medic himself. Something i commonly saw during quick mafia games, as attmept to make someone else claim doc role. And (welp) both me and Chaos called him out on this.

Sadly, most of those ideas ends up with doc being lynched/NK.

 

 

Third party might be an option, however very often town is given single night killing role, who may have took his shot on either Cat5 or Mojoman (for idea mentioned above). That, if Chaos's theory of 3 scum + TP + 4 town is true.

 

Jeod, it is possible. If we make a wrong lynch, that leaves us with 3:1:3 team - and only hope to survive would be SK killing a scum member. IF he exists, because i still think that it was TK role who took the shot.

 

I myself do not have much to say about this night result.

[Chaos_Knight]

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, isn't it also possible that we have 2 scum and 1 SK/Vig?

 

If we had 2 scum + SK it would've been 2v1v5 atm. That's not a guaranteed MYLO which GM should announce since there are many factors which can change the game N2 in that scenario.

If we had 2 scum + vig it's 2v6 atm and even with a mislynch and another clumpsy miss on vig NK we'd be 2v3 D3 so the game won't end.

If there are 3 scum, however, it's 3v5 or even 3v1v4 which IS a much clearer MYLO worth announcing.

 

That's how I see it at least.

[Jeod]

Jeod, what do you think about choppy?

 

Need more info. But given this post where he either softed cop or assumed I was a cop: https://secure.w3dhub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=416055&p=628790

 

It has some merit. I think he'd have gone for me as scum if he thought I was a PR.

Fak. Phone.

 

I don't buy chopbams soft claim because there are few types of cops in the role sheet. Blind claiming one of them risks a counterclaim. Being as ambiguous as it gets is an escape Gate which a real COP wouldnt need.

 

On the other hand, you're also softing a PR role here. Without hard claiming it, could you elaborate on who you visited last night and what alignment you suspect them to be? That should be ambiguous enough. A tracker can see a player didn't visit, and a cop can confirm alignment. Going about this the same way ChopBam is won't confirm a counterclaim and give us more information at the same time.

[Voe]

You won't make me counterclaim anyone if you're looking for it.

[Jeod]

Did you even read my post or are you actually a retarded staplefahrer?

[Voe]

retarded

I can't visit people at night.

There, you fished another one. Who's next on your list?

[VERTi60]

[Jeod]

The art of rolefishing Voe without explicitly asking him to claim: call him retarded.

 

Ok, so at the moment ChopBam is the sole cop softclaim. As my previous post said, I believe he softed it on Day 1. Thus, I'm inclined to believe it.

[Voe]

The art of rolefishing Voe without explicitly asking him to claim: call him retarded.

 

Ok, so at the moment ChopBam is the sole cop softclaim. As my previous post said, I believe he softed it on Day 1. Thus, I'm inclined to believe it.

Town does itself a lot of harm softclaiming left and right. And if that is not enough, you keep drilling and drilling until submission so the only unknowns become knowns as well. Otherwise you just don't give up.

 

I'd like a game as scum one day where I'd know who everyone is. >_>

[Jeod]

Are you complaining that I'm attacking you?

[ChopBam]

I think this argumentation between Jeod and Voe is providing a nice distraction for scum to sit back and watch as this continues to go nowhere.

 

Killing You and Fraydo have been sitting back pretty spectacularly this round. What do you two make of all this?

[Jeod]

I think this argumentation between Jeod and Voe is providing a nice distraction for scum to sit back and watch as this continues to go nowhere.

 

Killing You and Fraydo have been sitting back pretty spectacularly this round. What do you two make of all this?

 

I'm waiting on Nodlied to explain what he supposedly did to me last night.

[Voe]

Are you complaining that I'm attacking you?

No, I'd prefer you made your role assumptions in your head and note them in your private journal, instead of blasting them in the public. Sometimes it is wiser not to talk.

 

That's why I asked for cops to come out on successful finds, and not just for the sake of it. We can't verify a town read unless by a lynch, which makes such claims pointless. It also makes the cop the target.

 

If Choppy really is the cop (which i doubt tbh), he had a reason to defend Jeod, as he was under attack. I respect that. Following this example, he also had a reason to softclaim instead of going all out with his role. I'm seeing this, don't get me wrong. But this is only examining the game from the role perspective. I look at player interactions, and that bothers me with chop.

 

I'm waiting on Nodlied to explain what he supposedly did to me last night.

 

I wonder, too.

[FRAYDO]

Of the people that are dead, Mojoman and Verti fall in line with Chaos' revenge. If I had to take a wild guess as to who Chaos' next revenge target would be, it would be ChopBam. Only, there's something preventing him from wanting to push the vote onto him.
 
Chaos and ChopBam are the scum team.
 

I have to admit I am getting a bad feeling with Jeod trying his best to lead the town yet again.
Last 2 times he was scum and TP/Neutral respectably.

He's as nervous as the rest of us are in Jeod taking the leadership role as he always does, though I feel this stems from being afraid of being found out.

Scum didn't want their hands dirty in lynching Verti, or rather, they didn't even have to; Town was dead-set on doing so already. I'm inclined to believe everyone who had their vote on Verti at the end of the D1 CVC were town. With the votes tied between NoLynch and Verti, scum had a good outcome either way. ChopBam was suspicious enough going for NoLynch. Alstar was suspicious as well, although I believe he was genuinely concerned with mislynching which is why he pulled back his vote later that day. ChopBam however kept his vote. Chaos tossed his vote toward Mojoman under the guise of vindication, but with the majority votes as they were it seemed to me a vote simply to have voted someone should anyone question him later on it. Verti's fate was sealed and scum just had to sit back and let town do their work.
 

 

Well if a doctor protects Verti tonight, then he'll be proven right?

And that will totally not out the doc to scum.
Totally.

 

Either this decided for scum who to kill last night, or TP saw an opportunity to pin Mojoman's death on them.
 

ChopBam has been fensesitting, called out a VERTi60 town lynch, tried to slow down the lynch, been told something (potentially in a scum doc over the past two days, and thinks Jeod should be investigated. If both Jeod and VERTi60 are town, this could be a scum ChopBam POV.

And voting no lynch to boot.

Ah, but I don't have time to question him on this.

Category5 was town, and Jeod I believe is town. Following Cat5's lead here, ChopBam could very well be scum. He had wanted to question you and then was silenced. I have no doubt you could have talked your way out of Cat5's interrogation, but killing him was surely the easier route for scum.

 

To follow up on Jeod's and Voe's opinion of ChopBam:
 

 

Jeod, what do you think about choppy?

Need more info. But given this post where he either softed cop or assumed I was a cop: https://secure.w3dhub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=416055&p=628790

It has some merit. I think he'd have gone for me as scum if he thought I was a PR.

 

 

He could have gone for you true, though Voe's statement of you supports my thoughts below.

 

Vertigo, you're scummy as fuck.

Jeod, if you really believe that having yourself confirmed as town will make every doctor in the game jump in and bodyblock for you, you must be delusional. With the amount of confusion you're causing and god-syndrome you're displaying, scum would most likely leave you alive. You're literally worse than me, and that's saying a lot.

 

At this point, it seems to me you are more beneficial to scum to keep alive. The confusion you continue to cause only helps them, which is why they seem to have kept you alive.

 

Between Chaos and ChopBam, my vote is going towards the former.

 

##vote Chaos_Knight

[ChopBam]

The only "real" argument FRAYDO has against me is my no lynch vote. Nothing else, and he's so sure. I was a bit suspicious of CK, FRAYDO, and KY before, but now I have a solid reason to eye FRAYDO.

 

Mulling over FRAYDO's post, I realize that in a MYLO situation, the scum won't have anything to lose by pushing very hard to result in a town lynch, because a mislynch scum implication won't matter, as they will have won.

 

You know, FRAYDO, if a lack of "revenge voting" was a valid argument to use here, have you considered that I should be going after Jeod, rather than defending him as I have done?

[Chaos_Knight]

I find it very interesting FRAYDO, that you decided to vote on me as I was the only person who pointed out you being strangely aware of the TP.

 

Like you haven't addressed this little bit at all:

FRAYDO - as some people say, beware the quiet ones. He also seems to assume that the 2nd kill was done by a TP even though town has 2 PRs who can do that also.

We have to deal with scum and third-party.

 

But you sure tried to latch onto my vengeance votes. Sorry, but grabbing at the straws isn't going to help you.

 

Not only that.

Alstar was suspicious as well, although I believe he was genuinely concerned with mislynching which is why he pulled back his vote later that day.

Yea, poor NoLynch. We all love this guy, can't let them die!

 

##vote FRAYDO

[FRAYDO]

Take a look again at the D2 opening post.

 

CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE (Townie) HAS BEEN FOUND DEAD!

 

MOJOMAN (Doctor) HAS BEEN DESTROYED!

 

These two deaths MUST be avenged Comrades! Find the parties responsible for these tragic deaths today Comrades!

 

 

Announcement: MYLO IS IN EFFECT. A mislynch today could result in a scum win tomorrow!

Find the PARTIES responsible.

Given the MYLO situation we're in and the announcement as it is worded, I'm to assume even if we lynch a TP it's over for town.

 

We have to lynch scum today.

[ChopBam]

I'm to assume even if we lynch a TP it's over for town.

Why assume this? TP is likely responsible for the extra death, and if this is the case and we kill TP we prevent that second death from happening.

 

Mafia edit/addendum/clarification: *we prevent that second death from happening again tonight.*

[FRAYDO]

Call it a wrong assumption if you so wish to, but I'm reading "scum win tomorrow" and that cannot be allowed to happen.

[Voe]

Anyone who talks about "revenge voting" still being the case clearly doesn't understand how dire a MYLO is.

 

FRAYDO, you say that Chaos and ChopBam are scum together, and that's why Chaos isn't voting on chop. But there is literally no case on Chaos this whole game, and yet you prefer to oust him over ChopBam, who's slipping all day. Why is that?

[FRAYDO]

quoting from phone so excuse the mess

 

this is your D1 recap:

 

]Chaos_Knight: Not much really, but player-enigma Russian KGB agent knows how to avoid being read. Someone said that his revenge against vert is justified and expected, but I don't see how that makes one less likely to be scum. 

 

I'm to think good friend Chaos is playing a really good scum.

 

Of course, I would be glad to hear your case against ChopBam. And if you believe I should change my vote.

I look forward to a good read when I return home from work.

[GeneralCamo]

CVC - Cumulative Vote Count 

Time Left:

0 day(s) , 18 hour, 42 min

 

CVC:

Chaos_Knight voted for FRAYDO

ChopBam voted nobody

FRAYDO voted for Chaos_Knight

Alstar voted nobody

Jeod voted nobody

Killing You voted nobody

Nodlied voted nobody

Voe voted for Jeod

 

3/8 votes casted so far

Jeod, FRAYDO, and Chaos_Knight are tied for a lynch

[Chaos_Knight]

]Chaos_Knight: Not much really, but player-enigma Russian KGB agent knows how to avoid being read. Someone said that his revenge against vert is justified and expected, but I don't see how that makes one less likely to be scum. 

I'm to think good friend Chaos is playing a really good scum.

So your evidence of me being scum is the absence of a complete confirmation of me being town? Em... That's not how it works, ya know.

 

Atm you are pretty far into the nonsense territory which you normally don't go to.

That by itself is rather weird to me.

 

UPD:

Can some mod fix the quoting?

I don't want to break the rules by editing my post.

[Voe]

ChopBam has been fensesitting, called out a VERTi60 town lynch, tried to slow down the lynch, been told something (potentially in a scum doc over the past two days, and thinks Jeod should be investigated. If both Jeod and VERTi60 are town, this could be a scum ChopBam POV.

And voting no lynch to boot.

Ah, but I don't have time to question him on this.

Ah, but I don't have time to question him on this. Nightkilled.

 

If you are a cop this round, don't be so quick to roleclaim as Voe is asking you to do. The scum targeted Mojoman who all but claimed PR yesterday, and was nightkilled ASAP. A cop roleclaim at this point would be suicide for the evening. Our doctor is dead, so the cop can't be saved.

 

Up until this point, I've been townreading Voe. But today I'm not so sure. A vote against Jeod seems like a revenge vote, and the fact he wants a cop to come out and declare his findings, right after the doctor died following a soft roleclaim, doesn't sit right with me.

 

Right now I am reading Jeod as town. The near hammer yesterday was probably coincidence tied with his go-get-em personality. And no, we're not on a scumteam together.

1) Cops please stay silent;

2) Voe is revenge voting on a MYLO (really?)

3) Jeod is read as town. Had to specify not being on the same team together.

 

 

If you are a cop this round, don't be so quick to roleclaim as Voe is asking you to do. The scum targeted Mojoman who all but claimed PR yesterday, and was nightkilled ASAP. A cop roleclaim at this point would be suicide for the evening. Our doctor is dead, so the cop can't be saved.

 

Up until this point, I've been townreading Voe. But today I'm not so sure. A vote against Jeod seems like a revenge vote, and the fact he wants a cop to come out and declare his findings, right after the doctor died following a soft roleclaim, doesn't sit right with me.

The reason I'm calling a cop to come out on a successful find is because we're on a MYLO.

 

If someone found a scum, or a person visiting either cat5 or mojoman tonight, now is the time to claim. There will be no tomorrow if we do this wrong.

 

Good of you to clarify, Choppy, because during the mylo there is nothing stopping the scum to all go flat out against 1 person and get it overwith. And hey, is there an easier target than Voe?

 

Pretty much caught between hammer and anvil. 

 

The clarification is good enough for me, for now. I want to go off real data.

 

##unvote

 

Jeod, difference between vigilante and serial killer? Is the killer sided with the mafia team, and a vigilante on his own as 3P?

Scary situation, quickly fall back. Grab Jeod's attention to divert from oneself.

 

 

Asking a the cop not to provide any info if he has any is counter productive. However, if he hasn't got anything, he should confirm a player.

If the Allies have a spy with a makeup kit, he'll show up as town to a cop, which would honestly bone the cop role. I hope this isn't the case, whoever that copper is.

 

That said, I'd like to reaffirm my super strong hunch that Jeod is town, and so we shouldn't vote for him.

 

After having established that cops should come out and help, he's putting into question their validity. You know, they may come out but they're probably wrong. At the same time, softclaiming an unspecified cop and defending Jeod? It doesn't add up.

 

Tell us more about your hunch.

Maybe he'd like to explain? Nope, I get ignored.

 

Yes fraydo, what do you think, aside from stating the obvious?

I'm re-reading the thread and of what I see, Cat5 was heavily implicating ChopBam for fence sitting and protecting Jeod on day1 for no good reason. Him jumping at me beginning day 2, calling out cops to not come out and claim as it's dangerous for them is 99% scum rhetoric.

 

I don't know if Jeod and Choppy make a scum team, but Jeod isn't getting defensive. I don't blame him, he has only one vote on him. I wouldn't blow cover over 1 vote, either.

 

I've mentioned during day 1 I assumed scum was a 2 player team. I am now leaning towards 3 players, them being Jeod, ChopBam and FRAYDO. I don't really see a reason to suspect anyone outside the list.

*i think there is more because otherwise mylo doesn't make sense.

And this, FRAYDO, is a post i made specifically for you, which you also chose to ignore.

 

Right now I'm leaning toward FRAYDO+ChopBam scum team, not so sure about Jeod. I guess his willingness to vote on this two will determine whether he's equally protective of them as they are of him and each other.

 

##vote ChopBam

PS: ChopBam and Jeod on the forums. Intense scum brainstorming?

[Alstar]

I honestly feel that this quote of Chopbam's

 

And no, we're not on a scumteam together.

Is the point where main slip of his started. Just this sounds scummy as heck - If none of you is on scum team, how would you know this?

It actually makes me think that at least one of you - looking at you Chop mainly - just confirmed his alliegiance.

 

With MYLO taking place, telling cops to stay quiet ensures scum victory. For that reason

 

##vote ChopBam

 

Vote may or may not change after Nodlied shows up. You better show up.

 

Also, bad meta news: If we lynch scum and not 3rd party (if it exists) and if both of deaths will be town, we are once again in MYLO.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Alstar

[Jeod]

More like Jeod just woke up and is scratching his butt. I'm gonna get some coffee and then read up on all this.

I’ll start with an opening statement that I currently suspect Voe of being a hostile.

 

##vote Jeod

I was thinking I could sway Cat5 into lynching Jeod today, but seeing he's dead, I'll be crusading alone.

Additionally, if any town cops found anything, it is now time to share.

What’s with the language here? Why town cops in particular?
 

Ouch, that was rough.

If you are a cop this round, don't be so quick to roleclaim as Voe is asking you to do. The scum targeted Mojoman who all but claimed PR yesterday, and was nightkilled ASAP. A cop roleclaim at this point would be suicide for the evening. Our doctor is dead, so the cop can't be saved.

Up until this point, I've been townreading Voe. But today I'm not so sure. A vote against Jeod seems like a revenge vote, and the fact he wants a cop to come out and declare his findings, right after the doctor died following a soft roleclaim, doesn't sit right with me.
 

Additionally, if any town cops found anything, it is now time to share.

I'm not 100% sold on this, but no other leads right now. The scum went after Mojoman, who softclaimed PR, and Cat5, who is excellent at analysis.
##vote Voe

This game looks dangerous for the Soviets.

Right now I am reading Jeod as town. The near hammer yesterday was probably coincidence tied with his go-get-em personality. And no, we're not on a scumteam together.

 

This is a cop softclaim if I’ve ever seen one. ChopBam is giving his report in the last sentence. Saying we’re not a scumteam together is scummy unless you take into account his claim. He’s saying why he trusts me—it’s his report.
 

Good of you to clarify, Choppy, because during the mylo there is nothing stopping the scum to all go flat out against 1 person and get it overwith. And hey, is there an easier target than Voe?

This looks like a genuine guilt trip.
 

 

Asking a the cop not to provide any info if he has any is counter productive. However, if he hasn't got anything, he should confirm a player.

If the Allies have a spy with a makeup kit, he'll show up as town to a cop, which would honestly bone the cop role. I hope this isn't the case, whoever that copper is.

That said, I'd like to reaffirm my super strong hunch that Jeod is town, and so we shouldn't vote for him.

 

ChopBam is reinforcing his softclaim of cop here. In fact, he’s all but hardclaiming it.
 

Tell us more about your hunch.

Voe has picked up on this, and is trying to get ChopBam to hardclaim.
 

Fak. Phone.

I don't buy chopbams soft claim because there are few types of cops in the role sheet. Blind claiming one of them risks a counterclaim. Being as ambiguous as it gets is an escape Gate which a real COP wouldnt need.

More evidence of this. Voe wants ChopBam to hardclaim to allow a counterclaim. Normally it would be a good thing as we wouldn’t be in the dark and have a 50/50 of lynching a scum on MYLO.
 

You won't make me counterclaim anyone if you're looking for it.

However, Voe refuses to counterclaim. He doesn’t say “I’m not counterclaimingâ€. He says “You won’t make me counterclaim.†This implies that he could counterclaim.
 

 

retarded

I can't visit people at night.

There, you fished another one. Who's next on your list?

 

Given this, it’s odd that Voe didn’t explicitly say he could not counterclaim. He’s claiming a non-visiting role here. If he were a non-visiting role, then why not say that he can’t counterclaim rather than say “you won’t make me�
 

 

Asking a the cop not to provide any info if he has any is counter productive. However, if he hasn't got anything, he should confirm a player.

If the Allies have a spy with a makeup kit, he'll show up as town to a cop, which would honestly bone the cop role. I hope this isn't the case, whoever that copper is.

That said, I'd like to reaffirm my super strong hunch that Jeod is town, and so we shouldn't vote for him.

 

After having established that cops should come out and help, he's putting into question their validity. You know, they may come out but they're probably wrong. At the same time, softclaiming an unspecified cop and defending Jeod? It doesn't add up.

I have a counterargument for this. ChopBam is the cop. He’s questioning the validity of any who might dare to counterclaim, even saying that they’re “probably wrongâ€. If a second cop were to claim, then we would obviously need to clarify the roles. This quote does add up given all my prior arguments.

 

With all said and done, Voe is not playing like a scum. I think he's the serial killer.
 

Ugh, can Generalcamo fix that poorly done quote at the end? I was quoting Voe.

[Voe]

Bold accusation. One i cannot disprove, unless lynched, nightkilled or cleared by a cop.

 

As i said, i cant visit at night. It's a perk of being a genuine townie.

 

Jeod, you're still avoiding casting a vote. Are you waiting till the end of the day to go with a majority lynch, or do you want to hide from responsibility like you did on day 1?

 

It is easy to assume scum is still waiting for a chance to push a mislynch in the last few minutes of the day. Voting early or trying to start a bandwagon, in case it fails, risks a huge flop for the whole team. And you are one of those who do the delaying. Why is that?