Games [GAME OVER] RA:APB-themed Mafia Game V (Big Fireworks Edition)

[ChopBam]

34 minutes ago, Mojoman said:

4th party

nvm OP47, I'm voting this guy.

##vote Mojoman

[Mojoman]

I didn't think I'd have to use my power so early...

 

4th party power activate!

 

##vote Jeod

 

##superchronospherebombquakevortex Jeod

[Voe]

Any last words, Choppy?

[Mojoman]

Oh crap I messed up my profile pictures!

 

##unvote

 

##vote Chopbam

[Retaliation]

I made the mistake of not going through all the roles before the game started.

 

Vert that is a much bigger list than the last time I did one of your games!

[TheIrishman]

Just woke up. I feel like I'm going to be at a bit of a disadvantage since I know nothing of RA besides playing RA:3 like 9 years ago.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Just woke up? It's 10:20PM man!

[Mojoman]

>353 posts

>Know nothing about RA

The heck you been posting about dude :D

 

You just need to know the role sheet for some basics.

The Soviet's are town and want to kill the Allies who are mafia.

The Allies all know who they are and have a document to talk to each other.

Soviets have no idea who anyone is and are not in a document together.

Don't need to know much RA lore beyond that.

[ChopBam]

1 hour ago, Voe said:

Any last words, Choppy?

My scumbait worked!

##vote Voe

[Retaliation]

Knowing background helps in figuring out what madness we've let Vert subject ourselves.

How did the last RA mafia game go? Seeing talk about a big airfield masonry.

 

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Since almost all of the role data has been placed for you to read, there shouldn't be a lot of RA knowledge that you can't find the answer to. Anything not listed will be just as much of a mystery to everybody else as well.

The hard part will be trying to dissect what kind of game we're looking at here. This new missile silo mechanic looks like it'll probably flip the script in how APB mafia has previously worked. Before, people playing as a building didn't have to fear being lynched, and could infact use that fact to deliberately draw a lynch, and clear themselves. For a while we believed that only town could be buildings, so being lynched as one meant you were clear town and still in the game. Then VERTi60 flipped the script and made unlynchable-scum-buildings which blew up in town's face. You could still prove that you were a building, but now everybody learned less about that result.

With this new mechanic, lynching a building means that the Allies know exactly who they need to target. Even if the building survives the lynch, it's effectively a death sentence for that player. Players who wound up with building roles still must do everything they can to avoid being lynched.

I haven't done a whole lot of work regarding this puzzle, but I'm going to say right now that I'm not ready to commit to the idea that the Allies can only win by eliminating the Missiles Silos. If 3 members isn't enough for scum to win before time runs out, then they might have more than that, or the ability to remove more than 1 person in a night.

[OrangeP47]

There's always the possibly town gets tricked into doing something dumb and day shooting fellow towns, too, or something to that effect... Allied can definitely win if we're not careful so don't get complacent about anything.

[Retaliation]

Anyone else notice there can be up to 4 missile silos? That seems an awfully high number to have if you were only going to sprinkle one or two silos into a game. I'd gamble that there's quite a few of them and scum is going to have to tunnel hard if they want to win via silo kills.

[Killing_You]

Alright, I'm in. Can't say I've got a read on anyone (except Cat5, who is 100% town, as expected), but it usually takes me a while, so eh.

Five bucks says Allies have a role cop. They'll need one to find the Missile Silo during the night phase without playing a guessing game with nightkills. 

 

16 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

Anyone else notice there can be up to 4 missile silos? That seems an awfully high number to have if you were only going to sprinkle one or two silos into a game. I'd gamble that there's quite a few of them and scum is going to have to tunnel hard if they want to win via silo kills.

I don't think we have quite that many. Given the player count, I'd say that there's two to give the game some longetivity without putting too much power to town, and Verti games tend to be easier on scum. The "up to for" is probably for a 20 person game, which this isn't. (Obviously :v)

[Retaliation]

Good call on needing to be a role sheet for 20 player games. With only 12 people you could get away with only two (not one). It has occurred to me though as a building centric game I bet Vert couldn't resist giving us an engineer. Reviving a building doesn't stop scum from doing a coordinated night kill into day kill attack, but it does stop scum from accidentally winning the game early.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

That number would seem to indicate that the Missile Silo might be the vanilla role of this game, since the only other role with a similar number is the Rifle Soldier. I'm kinda leaning on the idea that there are 3. And mafia size might be 4, to both compensate for the likelyhood that lynches will fail and also because that is 25%, and VERTi60 typically goes for higher starting scum counts.

If town always mislynches and mafia always kills, potential mafia victory on D3 pending day actions (if buildings really make up a healthy portion of the town, this worst-case scenario would be pretty unlikely)

D1  N1 D2 N2  D3

8/4 7/4 6/4 5/4 4/4

If town always lynches buildings (or otherwise effectively nolynches) and mafia always kills, potential mafia victory on D5 pending day actions (This means town can't force time to run out by causing all lynches to fail)

D1  N1 D2  N2 D3  N3 D4 N4 D5

8/4 8/4 7/4 7/4 6/4 6/4 5/4 5/4 4/4

If town correctly lynches once and then nolynches every other day, while mafia always kills, mafia victory on D6 (So finding one scum and then stalling isn't enough either)

D1  N1 D2  N2 D3  N3 D4 N4 D5  N5  D6

8/4 8/3 7/3 7/3 6/3 6/3 5/3 5/3 4/3 3/3 2/3

If town correctly lynches twice and then nolynches every other day, while mafia always kills, potential mafia victory on D6 pending day actions (Even finding two and then stalling isn't enough)

D1  N1 D2  N2 D3  N3 D4 N4 D5  N5  D6

8/4 8/3 7/3 7/2 6/2 6/2 5/2 5/2 4/2 3/2 2/2

 

I'm not totally sold on my own ideas here, particularly on the mafia size, but I think it's worth putting out for consideration. I think another key note here is that VERT doesn't want to start this game and have it end really quickly. If town only has 1 or 2 Missile Silos, the game could end as early as D3, regardless of Day actions, as mafia could get both of them in those two nights. Perhaps even earlier if day actions are used. I'm only considering standard lynches and nightkills at this point.

[OrangeP47]

I know some people say discussing third party isn't productive, but maybe 3 mafia and a third party, if it's a high non-town count. That could offset the game if there are only 2 missile silos, maybe.

Also the way this game is playing out already makes me feel like my idea for Cuban Missile Crisis Mafia is redundant  heh. 

[TheIrishman]

2 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Just woke up? It's 10:20PM man!

Fell asleep a few hours after work >.>

And the only downside to not knowing anything about RA means not catching the little things, like how you guys were able to recognize the darkhorse base.

Appreciate the explanation Cat5.

[TheIrishman]

Dark Horseman base*

[Category 5 Hurricane]

1 hour ago, Killing You said:

Can't say I've got a read on anyone (except Cat5, who is 100% town, as expected)

What the balls? How can you possibly be so sure of my alignment after I made one useful post? I mean, you happen to not be wrong, but I can't possibly imagine what it is I said in my one post before this quote that made you so sure.

If I really did say something that makes you so sure, you probably shouldn't tell me what it is. But from my point of view, nothing I've said should be "100%" proof towards anything.

[Mojoman]

Eyyy killing_you is just trying to be buddy buddy witch ya. Nothing wrong with that right?

[Killing_You]

36 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

What the balls? How can you possibly be so sure of my alignment after I made one useful post? I mean, you happen to not be wrong, but I can't possibly imagine what it is I said in my one post before this quote that made you so sure.

If I really did say something that makes you so sure, you probably shouldn't tell me what it is. But from my point of view, nothing I've said should be "100%" proof towards anything.

Well the one time you didn't say something analytical (or at all) D1, you were scum. Maybe I shouldn't 100% clear you, but I've learned to trust you.

[Alstar]

4 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

With this new mechanic, lynching a building means that the Allies know exactly who they need to target. Even if the building survives the lynch, it's effectively a death sentence for that player. Players who wound up with building roles still must do everything they can to avoid being lynched.

I think its very possible that (lynching a building) is going to work in town favor, however stupid that may sound. Why? Considering the nature of objective, it would be stupid to not give town at least one protective role. I think one of town roles is Heavy tank for sure - and knowing who to protect is a good thing. Also, how would Engineer's repair ability impact the game if Silo has been destroyed and repaired?

I think both of roles are present and both can be an ace card when the right time comes. Unless repaired silo is still considered as "disabled".

[VERTi60]

6 hours ago, ChopBam said:

##vote Mojoman

[Vote Counted] ChopBam voted Mojoman to be lynched!

 

5 hours ago, Mojoman said:

##vote Jeod

[Vote Counted] Mojoman voted Jeod to be lynched!

 

5 hours ago, Mojoman said:

##unvote

 

##vote Chopbam

[Vote Cancel] Mojoman cancelled his/her vote on Jeod!

[Vote Counted] Mojoman voted ChopBam to be lynched!

 

4 hours ago, ChopBam said:

##vote Voe

[Vote Counted] ChopBam voted Voe to be lynched!

[VERTi60]

Time Left:

1 day(s) , 13  hours, 44 min, 51 sec

CVC:

Alstar voted nobody

Category 5 Hurricane voted nobody

Chaos_Knight voted nobody

ChopBam voted Voe

FRAYDO voted nobody

Jeod voted nobody

Killing You voted nobody

Mojoman voted ChopBam

OrangeP47 voted nobody

Retaliation voted nobody

TheIrishman voted nobody

Voe voted nobody

2/12 votes casted so far

2 voted players are at a tie (1  each)

[Jeod]

7 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

Fell asleep a few hours after work >.>

And the only downside to not knowing anything about RA means not catching the little things, like how you guys were able to recognize the darkhorse base.

Appreciate the explanation Cat5.

I didn't recognize it at first. Verti has a track record with lore connecting to roles (see: Molotov Brothers in APB IV), so I punch keywords into the ol' wiki to see what comes up. As it turns out Dark Horseman is the first Allied mission to mention missile silos.

[Retaliation]

For reference http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Horseman

I could see one of the scientists from the underground section being 3rd party.

[FRAYDO]

Given the setting of Dark Horseman and defectors, I would assume any 3rd party are likely pro-scum. Didn't think about the scientists. In any case, I would assume we don't have to worry about a third-party building.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

So based on the mission profile, I think we're looking at 3-4 Missile Silos, Heavy Tanks (maybe even a Mammoth Tank?) and perhaps a Flame Tower for Soviet Units along with some infantry to fill the rest, and Tanya, Spy(1-2), and Engineer(1-2) for Allied units.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

That's based off of the interior section of that map. If we're on the exterior, I imagine we could replace tanks/infantry with the airfield and assorted aircraft (which would need to land to enter a masonry with the airfield, and then maybe the Allies are actually a base. That might make the time limit make more sense, since the last aircraft vs Allied base experiment was a failure when Chaos_Knight and ChopBam had a standoff that only ended by their own decision to lessen their own victory chances.