Games [Game Over] CYOR - Battle of the Gods Edition

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I'm not sure this warrants a mass claim. I can prove my other ability easily enough, and while either FRAYDO or OrangeP47 might have targeted me, if a scum player messed with my action, they could also just not talk about it.

[Shade939]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I'm not sure this warrants a mass claim. I can prove my other ability easily enough, and while either FRAYDO or OrangeP47 might have targeted me, if a scum player messed with my action, they could also just not talk about it.

Maybe, but at this moment we basically have everyone claiming what they did last night with the exception of Verti.

[VERTi60]

2 hours ago, Shade939 said:

Maybe, but at this moment we basically have everyone claiming what they did last night with the exception of Verti.

I have a "backup role", which doesn't have zilions of OP actions like you guys have. It's more or less designed to help town if I am lynched or night killed. I don't have time to read every post, can someone throw in a table of actions and claims (aka IrishChart^TM)?

[VERTi60]

To clarify, I have an item that will be passed to town player once I die. That item can be used on players, it can reveal some info about them too. I can also use the item (for me it does tracking), and I used it on iLTS last night to see who he targeted last night - got a result "I wasn't able to".

[TheIrishman]

35 minutes ago, VERTi60 said:

I don't have time to read every post, can someone throw in a table of actions and claims (aka IrishChart™)?

*Sends you a link to my fancy GM Charts*

[TheIrishman]

Just now, TheIrishman said:

*Sends you a link to my fancy GM Charts*

But not really...and they're mostly a rip-off of Jeod's charts because I'm lazy 

[VERTi60]

6 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

I am suspicious of KY stating he blocked iLTS despite nothing happening. However if it were a NK, iLTS would then have lost his night BP.

Maybe KY lied about who he blocked? If we're to move forward with Orange's plan, I would like for KY to be in it. However, instead of the #1 spot he requested I would rather we go back to Shade.

#1 Shade
#2 Killing_You

Since no one is here, I just skimmed the thread quickly, there's a lot of claims which some add up more, some less. From all the mess I think I can reply to this, it seems that KY's claim of blocking iLTS is true since I can verify he didn't visit anyone. Fraydo jumping from all the people on KY is interesting since we also have a "cop claim" from Orange (who we shouldn't trust 100% until he can prove at least his first, day action claim).

I don't know what to make up from all the Shade-Nodlied-Jeod-Chopbam claims, I would need some more info or at least some sort of explanation, but if I'm understanding it right, I think it can provide enough evidence that none of these guys were associated with a failed NK (if there was one - we can also have the same situation here from last CYOR).

Which brings us to Cat5, Fraydo, iLTS and Orange. While Cat5's, FRAYDO's and Orange's claim can't be verified completely (but they can add up), iLTS here is the only one here who's being a bit shady and who I know was blocked based on KY's claim and my action result.

I should be available later during Sat night and then before hammer to see how things are developing but for now, the logic dictates:

##vote iLikeToSnipe

 

[Jeod]

I don't have time to draw up a fancy chart, but from what I can see, we have two or three people whose actions "failed" and one less roleblocker claimed. So, I'll do what I can do while I'm here and elaborate clearly on what was reported to me during the night.

I targeted myself for watcher. My Result PM didn't specify my target, so I don't know if I actually ended up watching myself or Shade or Nodlied. But, I saw Shade and Nodlied visit the target. Since Nodlied said he was trying to target me, I assume Shade bussed myself and Nodlied, and it could be that I ended up watching him and that Nodlied ended up targeting himself.

My initial thought to this is that perhaps for balance, mafia are immune to NKs or unable to NK themselves. But Nodlied hasn't elaborated on what his ability is yet and so there's not enough info to warrant further suspicion.

Vertigo has just claimed a tracker role on Snipe and reports that he did nothing, which fits in with Killing_You's claim that he blocked Snipe. They could be a scum team, but again there's far less info to go on than even my take on Nodlied, so I wouldn't follow up on it until there's more info.

[Nodlied]

16 minutes ago, Jeod said:

My initial thought to this is that perhaps for balance, mafia are immune to NKs or unable to NK themselves. But Nodlied hasn't elaborated on what his ability is yet and so there's not enough info to warrant further suspicion.

I've actually already given you a big hint as to what my ability is.  And you failed to see it!

[Jeod]

1 hour ago, Nodlied said:

I've actually already given you a big hint as to what my ability is.  And you failed to see it!

Not surprised, as I said it’s moving day. But if you’re medical of any sort then the NK mystery isn’t in the bus trio but in KY/Snipe more likely.

[iLikeToSnipe]

@Jeod I've found an interesting train of logic here... and I need an answer from you. You claim to have watched yourself last night. What was the flavor of that? Did it explicitly state who you were watching?

[iLikeToSnipe]

@Jeod This is pretty important and I can't make this post until I get an answer from you.

[iLikeToSnipe]

If we don't hear back from @Jeod relatively soon, I think it will be a safe assumption that he's not town (most likely scum at that point). I have a huge post to make, but I can't until Jeod answers in the forum. I don't want him to be able to make something up.

[Jeod]

2 hours ago, Jeod said:

I don't have time to draw up a fancy chart, but from what I can see, we have two or three people whose actions "failed" and one less roleblocker claimed. So, I'll do what I can do while I'm here and elaborate clearly on what was reported to me during the night.

I targeted myself for watcher. My Result PM didn't specify my target, so I don't know if I actually ended up watching myself or Shade or Nodlied. But, I saw Shade and Nodlied visit the target. Since Nodlied said he was trying to target me, I assume Shade bussed myself and Nodlied, and it could be that I ended up watching him and that Nodlied ended up targeting himself.

 

[iLikeToSnipe]

My bad, I had missed you already said that. Massive post coming right up...

[iLikeToSnipe]

Alright, here's a big wall of text.

There are four possibilities to explain the lack of a night kill:
    The mafia member performing the NK was blocked
    The mafia targeted somebody who was immune
    The mafia chose not to perform an NK
    The night killer got bussed to themselves and were unable to kill themselves

Option 1 (blocked NK):
Quite simply, the person who was going to perform the mafia NK was blocked and was unable to do anything. As Killing_You has claimed, this would be me.

Option 2 (ineffective NK):
Unless this is some kind of crazy game with crazy killing rules and options I don't think there's more than one person who's immune to NKs. So, the only way that this option would have happened is if I was the target of the NK. Vertigo and Killing_You both claim to have visited me. If Option 2 is what happened last night then I think one of them is cleared (why would two scum target somebody they're planning on killing?).

Option 3 (no NK):
This is something I've done myself in past games as mafia. It's already been suggested that mafia might have passed on a NK due to Shade claiming to be a bus driver. Another possibility is that the mafia are players that we already think are town. It's quite effective to pass up a NK when you're all in the clear; it generally shifts blame onto anybody else and keeps you in the clear.

Option 4 (bussed NK):
As suggested by Jeod, this is also a valid option. I have played in games in the past where night kills in general (not just mafia ones) cannot harm the person using them if redirected. However, I've also played in games where the opposite is true. This entirely comes down to who's running the game and I don't know enough about Irish to have an idea as to which way he'd go. If anybody else who has played a game of his can give their thoughts on this it'd be much appreciated.

Now that we have the non-NK possibilities established, let's move on to claimed actions

Claimed Actions:
Group 1:
Shade bussed Jeod and Nodlied
Jeod targeted himself to watch
Nodlied targeted Jeod but the action failed
Cat5 targeted Shade with an action to cause Shade to fail
Orange investigated Cat5 and got "not-town"

Group 2:
Killing_You blocked iLTS
Vertigo tracked iLTS
iLTS was bulletproof

Trying to untangle the spaghetti of Group 1, I think I know the two possible set of results.

Set 1 (Cat5 is telling the truth and Shade was unsuccessful in his bus):
Cat5 sabotages Shade
Shade fails to bus Jeod and Nodlied and does nothing
Jeod watches himself and sees Shade and Nodlied visit him (Shade was not roleblocked as claimed by Cat5, he was sabotaged so he would still visit)
Nodlied visits Jeod and his action fails
Orange investigates Cat5 and gets "not-town" result

Set 2 (Cat5 is lying and Shade was successful in his bus):
Cat5 did not sabotage Shade
Shade swaps Jeod and Nodlied
Jeod watches Nodlied and sees Shade visit Nodlied and Nodlied visit himself
Nodlied visits himself and does something or nothing
Orange investigates Cat5 and gets "not-town" result

What this comes down to is that I think either Jeod is lying or Nodlied and Cat5 are lying.

In Set 1, Cat5 is telling the truth about his role and Nodlied was able to visit Jeod. Nodlied's action then failed to work on Jeod for some reason. So far, Jeod has claimed that he is a watcher and that he has a random dayvig that will always... target... a lightning based role like ChopBam? Something doesn't add up with Jeod at all. If this is the case, I do not think that he is town.

In Set 2, Cat5 is lying about his role and looks pretty scummy. This means that Nodlied tried to visit Jeod and instead visited himself. I'm not sure what action would fail if targeting yourself on a bus besides a night kill. In other words, Nodlied tried to kill Jeod, targeted himself, and failed since he's not going to kill himself if this was IRL. This implies a Nodlied/Cat5 scum team.

Unless I'm overlooking some critical piece of information either Set 1 happened or Set 2 happened, there's no middle ground. This means that Jeod is non-town (3rd party or scum) or Nodlied/Cat5 are working together. And who else would be working together than a scum team?

Now let's look at Group 2. 

Set 1:
iLTS has a passive BP
Vertigo tracks iLTS and he goes nowhere
Killing_You visits iLTS and does something (NK, actually a roleblock, etc)

Set 2:
iLTS attempted something but was blocked
Vertigo tracks iLTS and he goes nowhere
Killing_You blocks iLTS

All I can say is that I do not have any action that targets another player during the night. My only night action is to be bulletproof. Unfortunately, there's really nothing here to disprove or prove anybody, it is entirely "he said she said". I have claimed that I did nothign except sit around and Killing_You has claimed that he roleblocked me. We could both be telling the truth or one of us is lying. Based on Cat5's claim, I don't think there's more than one role blocker in the game (a saboteur is effectively the same thing as a roleblocker). So, if Cat5 is telling the truth then I think that makes Killing_You scum and would be an explanation for the failed NK.

 

Summary:
We have two main groupings of actions. There is the group of actions centered around Jeod and Shade and a group of actions centered around me. Within at least one of those groups is one scum member. If Group 1 Set 1 is what happened, then that makes Jeod non-town and Killing_You probably a liar. If Group 1 Set 2 is what happened then that makes Cat5 a liar and Nodlied his likely accomplice.

I think our best course of action is to choose one person from each group for a dual lynch and have Orange use his claimed lynch ability. In other words, we choose either Nodlied or Cat5 and then either Jeod or Killing_You. Since there is some conflict with claims I think we should go with either Jeod and Cat5 or Nodlied and Killing_You.

[Shade939]

##Vote iLikeToSnipe

Like I said before, we don't really need to kill anyone today since their wasn't a NK, so why take any risk with killing a town player when we can do the following and clear multiple players or condemn them?

OrangeP47 uses his day action so the lynch won't kill anyone if iLikeToSnipe isn't Scum.

Target #1: iLikeToSnipe

Target #2: NoLynch.

Also, Orange should get his ability back if iLikeToSnipe isn't scum also.

[Shade939]

Mafia Edit: Orange only get's his ability back if iLikeToSnipe is actually scum.

[VERTi60]

Why would KY lie though? He would have to be sure about you not doing anything, ilts.

[VERTi60]

Same question for mr. buffguy @FRAYDO, why do you think KY would lie when he didnt know about ilts not doing anything?

 

Also, @iLikeToSnipe are you claiming to be a bulletproof day blocker?

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, VERTi60 said:

Why would KY lie though? He would have to be sure about you not doing anything, ilts.

Why does Shade think it's a good idea not to lynch somebody just because there was no NK?

I know that I am town and that I am bulletproof. In my eyes, blocking somebody and then jumping into a lynch vote for them just because you blocked them doesn't make sense to me. Even if you see it as cause for suspicion with the lack of a night kill there are many possible explanations for why we didn't have one. Also, there are plenty of people who also have had suspicion cast on them.

I see that move as something illogical for town to do; just how Shade's stance on not lynching somebody because there was no NK but we should lynch somebody makes no sense. Sure Killing_You could be somebody in the town jumping to conclusions, but he could also be scum who had a NK fail and wants to get an unkillable target out of the way.

11 minutes ago, VERTi60 said:

Also, @iLikeToSnipe are you claiming to be a bulletproof day blocker?

Yes, I am claiming bulletproof who had a day blocker.

[Shade939]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

Why does Shade think it's a good idea not to lynch somebody just because there was no NK?

Is that what I was suggesting at all and why I currently have you voted up?

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Is that what I was suggesting at all and why I currently have you voted up?

That's my bad, I'd thought you'd just said the first part in an earlier post but I can't find it now.

I would also appreciate it if those who want to lynch me would clearly state why. For example, Shade just has a vote and doesn't really say why he wants to. I would assume he's agreeing with Verti but it isn't clear.

[Shade939]

4 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

That's my bad, I'd thought you'd just said the first part in an earlier post but I can't find it now.

I would also appreciate it if those who want to lynch me would clearly state why. For example, Shade just has a vote and doesn't really say why he wants to. I would assume he's agreeing with Verti but it isn't clear.

Because, at the moment the most likely reasoning why we didn't have a NK was because you were blocked and couldn't perform it. We have a list of actions or claims from multiple other players, so unless the NK failed, in which case it was most likely done by a player lying about what they did last night since everything else matches up, your the most likely candidate for why the NK failed.

It's not guaranteed by any means, but neither is your death if Orange uses his ability.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Because, at the moment the most likely reasoning why we didn't have a NK was because you were blocked and couldn't perform it. We have a list of actions or claims from multiple other players, so unless the NK failed, in which case it was most likely done by a player lying about what they did last night since everything else matches up, your the most likely candidate for why the NK failed.

It's not guaranteed by any means, but neither is your death if Orange uses his ability.

Then do you have any thoughts on the post I made earlier? From my perspective, I see it as a voting for somebody who was claimed to have been blocked or voting for one or more people who are definitely involved in a lie. If all you care about is safety and guaranteed lynches then please read what I posted.

[Shade939]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

Then do you have any thoughts on the post I made earlier? From my perspective, I see it as a voting for somebody who was claimed to have been blocked or voting for one or more people who are definitely involved in a lie. If all you care about is safety and guaranteed lynches then please read what I posted.

Your completely excluding yourself in all of this situations, ignoring the fact that we have proof that my ability functioned as intended based on Jeods and Nodlieds actions, Category 5, FRAYDO, and Orange are all more or less vouching for each other, me, Jeod and Nodlied are all basically vouching for each other. That leaves KY, ChopBam, You and Verti as the only players without a decent alibi.

Killing_You and you are actually put against each other, so by focusing on that for this lynch we'll gain the most information.

I'd be willing to go for a iLikeToSnipe target 1 Killing_You target 2 lynch in this case, but I'm still not entirely trusting of Orange's ability and it doesn't actually do something different than what he's claiming.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Your completely excluding yourself in all of this situations, ignoring the fact that we have proof that my ability functioned as intended based on Jeods and Nodlieds actions, Category 5, FRAYDO, and Orange are all more or less vouching for each other, me, Jeod and Nodlied are all basically vouching for each other. That leaves KY, ChopBam, You and Verti as the only players without a decent alibi.

Killing_You and you are actually put against each other, so by focusing on that for this lynch we'll gain the most information.

I'd be willing to go for a iLikeToSnipe target 1 Killing_You target 2 lynch in this case, but I'm still not entirely trusting of Orange's ability and it doesn't actually do something different than what he's claiming.

Then you're completely missing what I said in that post. If you look carefully at what is claimed about what happened with you and Jeod somebody involved in that chain of events HAS to be lying.

Would you rather target some people involved in a logical fallacy or target some people based off of hearsay?

[Shade939]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

Then you're completely missing what I said in that post. If you look carefully at what is claimed about what happened with you and Jeod somebody involved in that chain of events HAS to be lying.

Would you rather target some people involved in a logical fallacy or target some people based off of hearsay?

Yeah, considering what they'd be lying about in that case, I don't think they're scum even if they are...

[Shade939]

You know, you should really stop arguing against a plan that involves Orange using an ability on your character that should prevent you from being lynched as long as your not scum...

[OrangeP47]

I think there are a few key assumptions made in the big post that are not necessarily true.  For example, the only one roleblocker thing.  Last game we had 4-5 of those.  Granted, we're trying to avoid that now, but having 2, maybe 3 isn't out of the question, especially if some are technically something else.