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[GAME OVER] CYOR - Supernatural Edition


TheIrishman

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Okay so we have Nodlied and Orange claiming neutral.

If even ONE of those is true...

What does that mean for Cat 5 and Verti? Both of them don't seem very townish to me. They haven't done any actions, Cat 5 apparently does stuff to dead people, and Verti couldn't be killed by a noose.

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12 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

I'm always important ;)

My 3rd target simply gains a defensive passive.

I have plenty of defensive passives. :smug: Do you have anything else to offer?

13 minutes ago, Nodlied said:

As I said. I am an easy lynch. Nightkilling me therefore seems unlikely and, perhaps, not even worth it. Thus staying put would be safer than hiding behind somebody that could get killed.

Alright, fair enough I guess.

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Player Role Alignment
Jeod :gonk: Ability copy presumed Town (non-scum)
Killing You Unstoppable day vig  
Orange Jailer claimed Neutral
iLikeToSnipe Vengeful doctor  
Shade Jack of All Trades  
Nodlied Hider claimed Neutral
Cat5 Unknown  
ChopBam Tracker  
Sunflower Watcher  
Vertigo Lynch proof  

 

So, we know Jeod got janitored. Since he was offed by scum and Orange confirmed his ability (which lead to Jeod successfully "testing" Orange) we still have a pretty good idea as to who Jeod was. A janitor ability is usually a one-time thing, it really doesn't make sense for scum to use it on Jeod. As soon as he got NK'd we knew that he was town, making his abilities and actions confirmed. So, why would scum even bother with a janitor kill? What if it was an ability that was a janitor kill AND an unstoppable kill?

I purposely announced that I was going to randomly select myself or Jeod to protect due to WIFOM, I flipped a coin and landed on me. Of course, scum can't know who I'll be protecting that night but Jeod is still a threat to being able to out them. If their janitor's kill is also unstoppable that would give them a reason to use it, thereby negating any protection roles that might be used on him. We also had Jeod's fake claim of being BP (which Orange went along with to his credit). My current theory is that a role with a combined janitor/unstoppable NK took Jeod out. I really can't think of any decent explanation as to why scum would choose to use a janitor on a role confirmed town beyond having unlimited usages.

With that in mind, let's refer to the claimed abilities listed above. We know Shade had a roleblock (I can back him up on that) and he used some sort of Liquidate ability on D2, we can reasonably assume that he doesn't have some kind of unstoppable janitor ability that turns people into mummies. Killing You was jailed by Orange last night, so he would have been unable to make the kill and is in the clear. We know that Vertigo is lynch proof, and never in my entire time playing mafia have I seen a scum member be given lynch proof. Lynch proof is just a town role, it's just far too powerful for scum to have; I doubt that he is scum.

That leaves us with me, Nodlied, Cat5, ChopBam, and Sunflower as the potential killers. I'm obviously going to exclude myself since I know I'm town. I doubt that we have more than one neutral in this game and due to Jeod's testing of Orange I think we can take Orange's word that he's neutral. So my number one suspect is Nodlied. Which conveniently lines up with him being jailed N1 and there being no NK N1. Typically if somebody tries to kill a bulletproof role with an NK the target will be alerted to the failed attempt. Since nobody has come forward with claims of a failed attempt N1 then one of two possibilities happened. The scum team chose not to perform a kill (which is usually a bad idea) or the person carrying it out was blocked somehow.

The only two players to claim to have been blocked on N1 were myself and Nodlied. So the lynch today should be between myself or Nodlied. Again, I know I'm town so...

Before we do anything else, I'd like feedback from the other players. I was out of it Saturday and Sunday and missed quite a bit. There's definitely facts and evidence I've missed and I'm trying to look back through it all. So I'd appreciate the feedback on this logic as well as what I'm about to propose.

I propose that KillingYou shoots Nodlied. Nodlied has claimed a neutral hider. He is not town and his top priority is to survive at all costs. He can and will betray us to the scum team if he is telling the truth. Should Nodlied flip as scum, then we probably bagged Jeod's killer (and it will indirectly confirm me).

If Nodlied does flip neutral then I propose that we force all the non-confirmed players to vote for me today. If any refuse to vote for me we pick one to lynch. I will flip town and I will be able to take out one of them with my vengeful ability. I probably don't have much longer to live with being a claimed doctor and I'll just muddy up the waters further.

Thoughts?

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I'm not sure we should use KY's super kill on someone we can probably just normal lynch.  We might need the unstoppableness for some other reason at a later date.  That's one concern.

Concern two is, if you are town, is it really wise to off yourself for an off chance of maybe getting someone else through a vengeful ability.  It seems like it would be better to just vote who we suspected in the first place.  Not saying I fully buy that you are town, but just within your own proposed plan I'm not sure it needs to be that complex.

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Just now, OrangeP47 said:

I'm not sure we should use KY's super kill on someone we can probably just normal lynch.  We might need the unstoppableness for some other reason at a later date.  That's one concern.

Concern two is, if you are town, is it really wise to off yourself for an off chance of maybe getting someone else through a vengeful ability.  It seems like it would be better to just vote who we suspected in the first place.  Not saying I fully buy that you are town, but just within your own proposed plan I'm not sure it needs to be that complex.

From my perspective, if we confirm Nodlied is scum that would clear me. I have only once bussed a scum mate in the past and that was when they didn't cooperate, coordinate, communicate, etc. With me cleared, that leaves us with three unknowns, Sunflower, ChopBam, and Cat5. Gives us some good odds at taking out scum in one day.

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1 minute ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

From my perspective, if we confirm Nodlied is scum that would clear me. I have only once bussed a scum mate in the past and that was when they didn't cooperate, coordinate, communicate, etc. With me cleared, that leaves us with three unknowns, Sunflower, ChopBam, and Cat5. Gives us some good odds at taking out scum in one day.

But you're strategy of voting for you is if Nodlied flips neutral.  I mean, while I won't say Nodlied being scum clears you (and lets not forget about TP possibilities), I would agree that if Nodlied is actually neutral that casts *more* suspicion on you, and thus a vote on you could be one productive path.  Is what you said more an admission that you wouldn't fight it if it came to that?

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4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

But you're strategy of voting for you is if Nodlied flips neutral.  I mean, while I won't say Nodlied being scum clears you (and lets not forget about TP possibilities), I would agree that if Nodlied is actually neutral that casts *more* suspicion on you, and thus a vote on you could be one productive path.  Is what you said more an admission that you wouldn't fight it if it came to that?

Yes, I would expect a vote on me. I'm just saying that in that case we can kill two birds with one stone. Have the unknowns vote on me and I can pick one of them to kill. I would also not be opposed to an agreement on who I kill in that scenario.

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1 minute ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

Yes, I would expect a vote on me. I'm just saying that in that case we can kill two birds with one stone. Have the unknowns vote on me and I can pick one of them to kill. I would also not be opposed to an agreement on who I kill in that scenario.

Why would you just not propose voting directly for one of them and not losing yourself, though?

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1 minute ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

Because in this scenario I'd see me sticking around as a hindrance to town. So, get rid of me and an unknown.

The more people alive, the longer it takes for mafia to eliminate everyone, so more people = better for town, even if you only serve as NK bait.

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5 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

The more people alive, the longer it takes for mafia to eliminate everyone, so more people = better for town, even if you only serve as NK bait.

If that's how you feel I'd be willing to work on a case against one of the unconfirmed players should Nodlied flip neutral. I'm just holding off on that because I feel that how he flips would help us determine who to lynch next.

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2 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

If that's how you feel I'd be willing to work on a case against one of the unconfirmed players should Nodlied flip neutral. I'm just holding off on that because I feel that how he flips would help us determine who to lynch next.

Work under both assumptions and have a case ready no matter what happens.  Normally I'd say let's wait for more input, but it seems like we almost have consensus on lynching Nodlied.  Therefore, maybe it's best we do it and resolve it. I'll leave it up to KY, though I still suggest we might want to save the unstoppable kill for someone who may have issues killing them other ways.

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2 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:
Player Role Alignment
Jeod :gonk: Ability copy presumed Town (non-scum)
Killing You Unstoppable day vig  
Orange Jailer claimed Neutral
iLikeToSnipe Vengeful doctor  
Shade Jack of All Trades  
Nodlied Hider claimed Neutral
Cat5 Unknown  
ChopBam Tracker  
Sunflower Watcher  
Vertigo Lynch proof  

 

So, we know Jeod got janitored. Since he was offed by scum and Orange confirmed his ability (which lead to Jeod successfully "testing" Orange) we still have a pretty good idea as to who Jeod was. A janitor ability is usually a one-time thing, it really doesn't make sense for scum to use it on Jeod. As soon as he got NK'd we knew that he was town, making his abilities and actions confirmed. So, why would scum even bother with a janitor kill? What if it was an ability that was a janitor kill AND an unstoppable kill?

I purposely announced that I was going to randomly select myself or Jeod to protect due to WIFOM, I flipped a coin and landed on me. Of course, scum can't know who I'll be protecting that night but Jeod is still a threat to being able to out them. If their janitor's kill is also unstoppable that would give them a reason to use it, thereby negating any protection roles that might be used on him. We also had Jeod's fake claim of being BP (which Orange went along with to his credit). My current theory is that a role with a combined janitor/unstoppable NK took Jeod out. I really can't think of any decent explanation as to why scum would choose to use a janitor on a role confirmed town beyond having unlimited usages.

With that in mind, let's refer to the claimed abilities listed above. We know Shade had a roleblock (I can back him up on that) and he used some sort of Liquidate ability on D2, we can reasonably assume that he doesn't have some kind of unstoppable janitor ability that turns people into mummies. Killing You was jailed by Orange last night, so he would have been unable to make the kill and is in the clear. We know that Vertigo is lynch proof, and never in my entire time playing mafia have I seen a scum member be given lynch proof. Lynch proof is just a town role, it's just far too powerful for scum to have; I doubt that he is scum.

This isn't meant to poke holes in your argument, but I'd like to point out that we have had unlynchable scum in the past. It didn't end well, and I don't think Irish would do that. It was enough for us to stop going "unlynchable = town," but whether that was a good thing or not is debatable.

2 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

That leaves us with me, Nodlied, Cat5, ChopBam, and Sunflower as the potential killers. I'm obviously going to exclude myself since I know I'm town. I doubt that we have more than one neutral in this game and due to Jeod's testing of Orange I think we can take Orange's word that he's neutral. So my number one suspect is Nodlied. Which conveniently lines up with him being jailed N1 and there being no NK N1. Typically if somebody tries to kill a bulletproof role with an NK the target will be alerted to the failed attempt. Since nobody has come forward with claims of a failed attempt N1 then one of two possibilities happened. The scum team chose not to perform a kill (which is usually a bad idea) or the person carrying it out was blocked somehow.

I like this line of reasoning. Kind of glad that I didn't shoot you.

2 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

I propose that KillingYou shoots Nodlied. Nodlied has claimed a neutral hider. He is not town and his top priority is to survive at all costs. He can and will betray us to the scum team if he is telling the truth. Should Nodlied flip as scum, then we probably bagged Jeod's killer (and it will indirectly confirm me).

If Nodlied does flip neutral then I propose that we force all the non-confirmed players to vote for me today. If any refuse to vote for me we pick one to lynch. I will flip town and I will be able to take out one of them with my vengeful ability. I probably don't have much longer to live with being a claimed doctor and I'll just muddy up the waters further.

Interesting plan. I'm going to wait a little bit for other people's input, but I'm personally on board. My main reason for holstering my shot is in case one of the claimed BPs was scum, but it looks like that's not the case. I'd also like to use it so that Orange doesn't feel obligated to jail me anymore.

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14 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

I'd also like to use it so that Orange doesn't feel obligated to jail me anymore.

That would only happen if Orange has a reason to jail you tonight in order to keep you alive so you could use your ability, which as he himself admitted, he needs to target a different player tonight to trigger his victory condition.

He wasn't jailing you tonight to actually help you.

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18 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

My main reason for holstering my shot is in case one of the claimed BPs was scum, but it looks like that's not the case.

I wonder why your kill is listed as "unstoppable" if it's not meant as a counter for scum defenses..?

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