The Big Balance discussion (IA)

[Threve]

Here it is. The one to end them all. After playing IA for 3 years nearly daily it's obviously became my favorite game and a lot of others. There are a lot of balance concerns though that I think should be adressed. The balance topics i'm adressing here however are mostly buffs because IA at it's heart when it's fun is very buffed units vs each other and how to balance them by using their strategies. I write this speaking on the feedback and on behalf of what I believe everyone else thinks. That's why i've included a poll at the top and encourage people to give feedback so we can know what players believe what and give feedback as such. If there's a concern about a unit you have and I haven't adressed it it's because there exists a counter or strategy to counter it I believe is sufficent enough to not warrent a Nerf. Enjoy.

 

The balance (IA)

 

General Balance unrelated to units:

An important concept that a lot of people are not taking into consideration is the balance not by units but the game itself. During games of all the way up to 12 v 12 Nod finds itself going on the defensive a lot of times to win as the only way to win. This is because of a couple reasons all of which make it that people do not want to play Nod. 

 

After 22-24 players, there are so many units that the game balances itself out. But most games on IA are below 20 players which is why a problem is being found. 

 

• Nod defenses are useless.

  Spoiler

   

  • This is a major reason why Nod constantly has to play defense themselves. The Vanquisher turret is good when it hits vehicles but again, it can’t hit vehicles that are simply going left and right. The same goes with 88mm, 105mm turrets, and Flame Towers. The only defences that can actually hit units are the laser turret and Tick Tank. The laser turret however is extremely easy to kill compared with the GDI counterpart the Pillbox. So..
    
    - Nod has 5 different types of defences. 3 of which are useless against a moving unit.
    
    - Nod’s has 2 defences that work (Laser Turret and the Tick Tank 90mm). But the laser turret has no health compared with the pillbox.
     

  • Compare this with GDI defences where the Pillbox detects Stealth and has significantly more armor than the laser turret, the ADATS fires at Aircraft infantry (With burn damage) and vehicles using tracking missiles, the MANTIS fires without a PP and hits stealth, the Guard Tower can actually 1 hit K/O while the flame tower kills itself.

   

   

•  

+ This leads me into my next important point. Nod has to constantly only play defence to win.

Spoiler

 

This is a major point in nearly half the maps. On maps like Vile_facility (Old), Orca_Heights, Ulake, Ridge_warfare, Winter_Assault, Suspense, Cold_valley. On all of these maps when it’s below 12 v 12 player count Nod only realistically can win when it’s by defence. Why?

- Most of these maps have an AGT unfairly given to GDI that negates aircraft, hidden units and lone Nod units. Take a look.

-  Vile_Facility (Old) has two routes for Nod vehicles. 1 of which is covered by an AGT and impossible to hit buildings. When you hit the AGT on the bottom route it’s backed up by an ADATS for some reason and Mammoths are flowing out of the route..

- Orca Heights. Nod can’t realistically rush the GDI base with mammoths constantly flowing out and the AGT is at such a hard to hit angle with no cover no one wants to.
- Ulake. GDI has two AGT’s. Two AGT”s do not equal 1 OB.

- Winter_assault. While more balanced and not a problem due to Nod getting a Gap Gen. It still shows that attacking as Nod just isn’t as benefiting as defending.

 

 

+Nod has little to fight back GDI at the start of the game.

Spoiler

This is mainly due to the TOW Humvee decimating everything at the start and Nod not having any useful units below $900 that can do anything at the start compared with GDI. 

 

+ Due to unit nerfs, the only realiable vehicle Nod can use (That's not a Flame Tank, Gap Gen or specialty vehicle like so) and will every game is the Ezikel Stealth Wheel. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

Spoiler

To be discussed further in the Nod unit section. However, Nod only really has an ezikel as the unit to use in-game.

 

So now that we have a general outline of what’s going on nearly every game with Nod. Let's talk about the maps that drive players out the game and are !vote cyclemap’d constantly and why.

 

• Orca_Heights. This map was talked about briefly above, but nearly every time I’ve played it people want to skip it. Why? 

 

•  

  Spoiler

   

  • The map only has 1 realistic entrance for each team, there is no cover to really hide in as a vehicle, infantry only maps have shown to be unpopular on IA and this map forces you to be infantry in the tunnels. 

  • The massive walls mean it’s a killzone in the middle for any vehicle.

  • The walls contain snipers meaning you can’t even really play as infantry.

  • GDI wins 9/10 times by just waiting for 30 minutes and spamming Mammoth Tanks with Rep vehicles or by Nod sitting in base for 1 hour. This is boring.

  • The AGT prevents nod from rushing GDI base because a rush would have to deal with STRONG vehicles coming out, ORCA’s flying out, being bottlenecked and only being able to use an Ezekiel to rush. Why would Nod risk all of that against a competent GDI team when they can just stay in base.

  • The only way to win the map is literally by spamming Rocket Soldiers over and over into the walls and pick off the defences 1 by 1. This is very boring and it's boring to attack the person in the walls over and over.

   

  Solution: Remove the map from rotation or remove all the defences from the map so that each team is FORCED to attack in a meat grinder middle to determine victory.

   

   

   

 

• Great_Under.

Spoiler

- This map was also talked about briefly and is so close to being perfect. The problem however lies in the fact that Nod has 1 Laser turret defending it's entrance while GDI gets Walls, an ADATS, 1 Gun Tower and 1 (88)mm Turret. This is beyond unfair to Nod and means Nod has to constantly play defence in the CC entrance. GDI also has the unfair advantage of simply spamming the $400 Churchill that can out health the Laser Turret at the start. 

 

Solution: Leave the laser turret at Nod CC. But leave only a Gun tower at GDI CC. No walls, ADATS, Turret or anything of the sort. This means that GDI will actually have to defend their base also. The map also has a problem of being a timer for a mammoth deathball.. But this is a unit problem I will talk about later.

 

 

• Cold Wall. Just remove.

 

• Vile_Facility (Old):

Spoiler

 

• This map was talked about above. Unfortunately, people will still B2B on this map and build in the middle. Even if this was fixed however the map is very limited to play. As said above, Nod has to constantly play defence on this map against GDI which is just waiting until GDI gets a Mammoth Recovery Vehicle and repairs 3 mammoth tanks at a time that’s unstoppable.

 

Solution: Remove the map since an updated version was made or remove AGT and apply unit changes recommended to buff Nod and see if it made maps like these better.

 

 

 

• Ulake:

Spoiler

 

• Again, I am trying to write this in an unbiased way but this map has some issues. - The flat terrain means that Ezikel stealth tanks are spammed constantly and will always hit their targets.

• GDI has two AGT’s side by side which slows down gameplay incredibly.

• The Nod Obelisk can be hit by a Kawasaki rush (SAM sites just hit the walls) while both GDI AGT’s can not realistically be attacked by any aircraft whatsoever.

• The flat terrain also means that combat is very one sided and limited. 

• The flight ceiling is very low which means that it’s difficult to fight in Aircraft on the hills because you’ll randomly slow down.

• The only way Nod can take down both AGT’s is by GDI not paying attention and repairing at all. The right AGT has such a narrow pathway that MDK or anyone really can build two hedgehogs and stop any Nod Rush while the left AGT has a full unobstructed view to hit units.

 

Solution: There are people that like this map. So in an unbiased way I would recommend a Stealth Gen for Nod to counter 2 AGT’s. Or remove the WF AGT to speed up gameplay. This means the WF is still covered by defences and it’s a route that Nod can use. I would also place the Tib Silo in the middle so that there is a place to fight over. As a last request, a CC would benefit this map greatly along with giving some hills or curves on the map to make combat exciting and not a rock paper scissors. 

 

 

 

• Great_Wall.

Spoiler

 

• I understand that this map is currently being redesigned but I recommend removal of the current version. It’s very one sided where whoever has the silos instantly will win the game, in addition destroying the turrets does not do anything for either team because someone is just repairing them for an hour. The only way this game is won is by a really bad team, 1 hour and 30 minutes of waiting or a GDI Spy. This map is also unfortunately skipped a lot of times.

 

Solution: Remove map until the remake. The map just drives players away from the server every time.

 

 

 

• Blazing_Sands: I believe that this map is fairly balanced and is a fun time for either team. If people would like to comment on what they think of the map and also provide a solution then please do.

 

• Cold_Valley (Fjord_Classic.mix):

Spoiler

 

• This map has a lot of problems that need to be addressed. For starters, the rear (Barracks) GDI entrance has an AGT that is also protected by 3 Pillboxes, 2 sam sites, 1 MANTIS 35mm, 1 88mm Turret and next to the ORCA Helipad on a narrow bridge with no cover. There is no way any competent  GDI team would ever let any Nod player through. This means that Nod’s only option for victory on this map against a balanced normal team is through the front entrance (Also guarded by an AGT) or by firing missiles over the valley. 

 

Solution: Remove the rear (Barracks) AGT so that Nod actually has a chance to rush into GDI base. GDI still has all the defences left above to defend which is MORE than enough. This gives Nod a chance to actually use the rear entrance.

 

 

 

• Winter_Assault:

Spoiler

 

• This map has lots of potential but is held back by one simple thing. There is nowhere for vehicles to go. The only way to attack as Nod is to cross the bridge (which is being crossed by another mammoth tank usually or patrolled by an ORCA), go through the GDI PP pathway (Which is usually strongly guarded anyways) or go through the field (Which takes a long time.) I remember this map was a redesign of an earlier version, however the early version had a wider pathway allowing vehicles to fight it out in the middle and it was actually really fun, it did not feel like a stallment.

 

Solution: Make the middle larger/more ground for vehicles to fight so combat occurs. The map is won all the time by the PP paths because it’s the only way vehicles can attack each other's base or battle.. Maybe make a large middle hole in the mountain where vehicles can exit out. It just takes way too long to exit the GDI or Nod base as a vehicle and fight the other base.

 

 

 

• Mt.Pass:

Spoiler

 

• One of the most biased maps in-game. GDI can
  Hit nod base from theirs with a Mammoth 36.

• Attack in 5 directions. While Nod can only attack in 1 location realistically.

             GDI has a clear killzone in front of their base.

             2 AGT’s.

           Can go on water while Nod can’t.
           Actually destroy Nod PP with no retaliation.

            Blow up the Nod Harv over and over.

 

Solution: Get rid of the CY AGT. Make it so GDI actually has to pay attention to the rear. The rear also has a Pillbox there and an ADATS so it’s not exactly like they are defenceless. Solution 2: Make the Water land so Nod can actually attack GDI base from another direction. Solution 3: Make the map a special map where Nod has to defend the CY for an hour or they lose.

 

 

 

Map Conclusion: I may add a map or two. But after playing these are the maps I see a problem with primarily. I understand a lot of other maps do have their fair share of issues but they are fun to play which is what matters. Please comment on any maps you disagree with in my reasoning if you find any issues.

 

Unit Issues: This is it. This is going to address every single unit that GDI and Nod has along with what to do with them. If they’re ok then i’ll leave it at that. If there is a problem I will say the problem and the solution.

 

Nod Infantry:

BH Melta ($500)

The unit is actually pretty good. I like that the ammo and range is low because you really have to use this unit tactically. However, a lot of people would like more ammo. Comment below if you agree.

 

Nod Blackhand Machine Gunner ($650).

This unit fights great as well. But I believe the damage should be increased very slightly to match it’s price tag. Up for debate.

 

Chemical Warrior ($650).

This unit costs way too much for what it’s worth and doesn’t make sense. For $650 the unit moves slower and still gets killed just as easily as the $200 unit. Sure a baby visceroid spawns but it’s not worth $650. Solution: Lower the price or give the unit 40 Chemical Grenades instead of just two.

 

Nod Ballistic Sniper ($650)

I don’t understand this unit because the bullet will randomly go where it wants to. Sure, you can damage aircraft and deal a lot of damage to infantry but if you’re using it for short range attacks like that then you’d just buy something else. Like a BH LCG. If you actually want to snipe then you’d use a $500 Sniper Rifle. Solution: Lower price or make the bullet accurate instead of random. It travels slow anyways.

 

Anti Air Specialist ($700)

I believe the AA missile is fine. Up for debate as i’ve heard a lot of players talk about buffing the AA missile. Comment below.

 

Black Hand ($700) (AK-107)

This unit fights like a $500 unit but costs $700. I would buff the BH LCG like above and swap places with the $650 so the Black Hand costs $650 and the BH LCG costs $700. I would make the Black hand run 8.0 m/s. (As a comparison the Military police runs 7.7 m/s) and give 30 more armor.

 

Nod Designated Marksman ($700) (SVD Dragunov)

This unit is never purchased because the weapon and the unit don’t make sense. The damage is low and the unit is unremarkable. I would decrease the price to $400.

 

Raveshaw ($1,000)

This unit is pretty good. But I believe the Railgun could use a very slight buff. 

 

Mendoza (Normal)

The normal version of Mendoza is never bought. Ever. There’s just no reason to. The unit speed is 6.8 m/s which is the same as the mendoza firesuit. I would make Normal mendoza 7.9 m/s and give him 2 timed C4’s to give people a reason to buy him. He will still die by mines but now is powerful, faster and worth buying. He can’t 1 hit K/O a building because that requires 3 Timed C4’s.

Mendoza (Firesuit)

Perfect.

 

Mendoza (Backpack)

No one buys this unit. It’s typically skipped over for the firesuit. Why? Because !ammo exists. So to solve this I would make the unit speed the same as the firesuit. 6.8 m/s (The Backpack mendoza goes 5.9 m/s). Making the unit go faster means it’s harder to hit. Being harder to hit and not having to wait for !am means it’s better in combat. Better in combat means people will use this more for 1 v 1.

Mutant Petrova

I love this unit. But it needs +50 Armor because of the price. Currently has just 100 Armor.

 

Mutant Raveshaw

This unit needs to be addressed. It costs $1,750 and does not fight like so simply because it really lacks anti infantry capabilities. All it needs is a Calico Pistol with 50 rounds instead of the Beretta 93R. (Yap said in Discord the armor will be fixed)

GDI Infantry:

Designated Grenadie ($300):

This unit has a terrible weapon that doesn’t even really do any damage to anything. I would recommend removing this unit or reworking the grenade launcher so that if the grenade hits a unit it does higher damage with burn. Maybe it fires an incendiary grenade? Just absolutely bad and it’s not even your fault @ yap. The unit has always been terrible in Renegade.

 

GDI Designated marksman ($500): Same as above for Nod.

 

GDI Ballistic Sniper ($650):

I don’t understand this unit because it fires like the $500 Normal Renegade Sniper rifle but has this weird spread when aiming so you never know if your bullet is going where it should. Solution: Make the rounds not have spread. It’s uniqueness comes from having 10 rounds instead of 5.

Logan ($650):

A great balanced unit that I love. There’s just one issue which is the AA-12 HE. It doesn’t do any damage to anything and i’m very confused what to use it for. Solution: Make the AA-12 HE do a big amount of damage but only have 1 extra magazine so you have to call in !am or refill. 

 

Gunner ($650):

I’ve been waiting for this one. I’m going to really try to be unbiased here, but Gunner simply needs to be able to be crushed (Again). If i’m not mistaken, crush was removed from Gunner because of the Unit Icon? If this is going to be fixed next patch then ignore. Gunner is an Anti Vehicle, Anti infantry, Anti Aircraft unit that can drive and hug anything. 1 Tow Humvee and 1 Gunner Salvo can kill an Ezikel. Solution: Make gunner able to be crushed so he can’t just kill everything by running next to it. The A.I. Support is also vastly affected by gunner being nigh unstoppable. The A.I. Gunner will 1 Hit K/O anyone and runs next to your vehicle become unstoppable. You could replace !sup with just this unit and it would still be as powerful as any other. Again, Gunner should be crushed. 

 

Patch ($700): Make Radar invisible. 

 

FLASH M202 ($700):

Love this unit. Absolutely love it and don’t believe it should be changed. Only putting it here because I know people will have an opinion. This unit is used to clear out people camping with a SBH in the field or make someone unstoppable actually be able to be killed. I only wish Nod was able to get the M202 as well.

 

Marksman (DMR Sniper Rifle) ($700):

This unit has bullet drop which makes the rifle only useful at close to medium range. If this is what the unit is intended for then ok. But for long range combat, it’s just not useful. Solution: Remove bullet drop. People just buy a Ramjet or Renegade Sniper Rifle instead (The one Deadeye uses).

Sydney ($1000/PIC):

This needs to be changed definitely. The PIC is useless at the moment. It needs to be buffed. I don’t know the values otherwise I would give an accurate opinion of how much it should be buffed but if it deals say 100 Damage right now, it should deal 122 Damage instead.

 

Havoc Power Suit ($1,750):

This unit shouldn’t exist. Why? Because the only usage of this unit is to stay at your base and constantly refill during a sniper battle OR sit outside of Nod base and killwhore. It takes two headshots to kill this unit and it doesn’t matter because again, people will just refill. SBH’s can not 1 hit K/O this unit with throwing knives and anyone using this will just do what I said above. So you can’t use a suicide bomber to kill this unit because it’s in GDI base or in field and you’re being killed by GDI. Nod also doesn’t get an M202 so you’re SOL. Comment if you agree or not. 

Mobius Power armor: Great unit again. Just unsure why he’s not in the !support. I’ve tested it out and the first level of nod !Support kills GDI’s final tier of support (Havoc and Sydney). Solution: add back mobius to !sup

GDI Vehicles:

 

M113 ($500):

This unit is too slow to actually be used as an APC. Other faster units are better off being used. Debatable if worth changing but worth bringing up.

 

M132 Zippo ($800):

This unit used to be good because it actually killed infantry by lighting them on fire. It’s been nerf’d in damage however and is just never used. The unit has to be close range to even realistically hit something and is killed by nearly any Anti Tank vehicle. Solution: buff the damage back so the unit has a purpose. This is supposed to be a fun unit but people just use Mammoth Tank Rockets instead.

 

PT-91M Pendkar ($1800):

I have never seen this unit used or bought by anyone. Why? Because this unit doesn’t perform as well as an M1 Abrams or Mammoth Tank 120mm. It needs a reason to use. Solution: The tank already moves faster than both. However the Pendekar has 715 Armor while the M1Abrams has 815. I would give the Pendkar a faster turning turret and more armor to match the M1Abrams. That way this unit is faster, has a faster turning turret, smaller profile than the M1 Abrams with almost as much armor. That way people will buy this tank if they want a pure Tank vs Tank and prefer more mobility rather than armor.

 

Stage II FV005 ($1,800)

This unit takes 11.5 seconds to reload. The trade off is that the range is incredible and damage is good. But there is a spread. The unit however isn’t used all that often anymore. Solution: make the reload 9-8 seconds undeployed. This will tilt the unit enough to where it will start to be used again for long range tank sniping.

Churchill ($400)

This unit is actually one of the few i’m going to recommend be nerf’d slightly. Why? This unit will out health anything early game that Nod has and is a reason Nod will never capture the field early game on a balanced team wise game.The cannon does enough damage that it will destroy anything early on. The tank moves at 8.9 m/s which is fast for what it is. Has 960 Armor and 960 HP with Heavy armor that’s impossible to crack without heavy firepower. The front machine guns decimate infantry. Solution: Make the tank 4.0 m/s in speed. It’s ok to have heavy firepower, but it’s literally the first tank ever made yet goes faster than most tanks and kills anything Nod has early game.

 

TOW Humvee ($400)

This unit is a major reason that Nod can not do anything early game. The TOW Humvee will track any unit and kill it no matter what for $400. The TOW Humvee can 3 hit K/O a Stingray 105mm, 1 Hit K/O a Banshee, Buggy’s, M109 Arty’s, A/T Stealth Comanches, etc.. I know everyone here has experienced it. It’s incredible against absolutely anything and everything. If you die then it just costs $400 so who cares. Solution: It’s easy to nerf this unit HARD. Instead what I suggest is a 25% longer reload, reduction of speed from 20 m/s to 17 m/s, -5% damage and $700. That way, yes this unit still hits hard but you had better be good and avoid fire or you’re dead.

 

Mammoth Tank 120mm ($1,800):

Perfect where it is. Only issue is the Tusk Missiles. They just melt any infantry that Nod has. I don’t know what to write because I’ve heard that Yap is fixing and editing them. If I had some damage values I could comment better on what to do. But at the moment the Tusk missles just track infantry, have a insane high range, chuck aircraft, do burn damage to infantry and have a massive splash damage.

Mammoth Tank Railgun ($2,800):

Love the unit. Again the tusk missiles. But a primary thing about this unit is that it can go toe to toe with the Ezekiel tank. It will defeat it in a 1 v 1 assuming both players are competent. But I’ve found that using a right click from your ezekiel will actually hit the Mammoth Tank really hard. Why am I saying this? Solution: Make it so the Mammoth Railgun can’t depress the guns by like 2 or 3 degrees. A slight nerf. This will make it so Mammoth Tank railguns can kill ezikels from long range to mid range, but if an Ezikel rams a Mammoth Tank railgun then the Ezikel can win a 1 v 1. This makes it a fair fight for both units. Why does it need to be a 1 v 1 counter? Because if a Mammoth Tank railgun = 1.5 Ezikels needed to kill it then here's what happens. 6 Mammoth Tanks rushing means Nod needs 9 Ezikels to defeat them in theory. The unit is so easy to use as well it's not even an argument. This levels the playing field without over nerfing and messing with the Mammoth Tank Railgun.

 

Crusader MK.3 AA ($400):

This unit is arguably the worst in-game. The damage just doesn’t do anything. The unit is weak. The bullets can’t hit aircraft. Solution: Make it so it can continuously fire or give it like 50 rounds or remove. Honestly, I don't know. Someone please help me here.

 

Stryker 105mm Cannon ($1500):

No one uses this vehicle that much because it can be 1 hit K/O’d by an ezekiel. Although the machine gun turret is nice, and the instant firing gun is potent.. The vehicle just can’t avoid being fired upon. This vehicle should be a hit and run vehicle but the Ezikel missile tracking means it can’t avoid or run from fire. Solution: Increase the reverse speed slightly. It’s a little underpowered compared with an Ezekiel. But it’s not at the same price range so it’s ok. (NOTE: Yap has said in Discord this tank will be changed in the future with a triple firing cannon mechanisim and steering/driving fixtures.)

 

Merkava ($1500):

People have complained about this tank, but for $1,500 I think it’s fine. Comment below if you disagree. It’s $1,500 after all.

 

Mammoth Recovery Tank ($1,500):

This tank is controversial. If GDI is able to get two of these at once then it’s game over. Simply put it can’t be killed when both are healing not only each other but also the Mammoth Railgun tanks in front of it. Golaiths can’t kill these because the Mammoth Tanks will just kill the goliaths most of the time. Solution: This unit moves at 8.2 m/s while a normal mammoth tank 120mm moves 7.9 m/s. They also have the same armor. So, I would make the Speed the same (possibly lower) and decrease the armor of the Mammoth Recovery by 50 Armor and 50 HP. (Edited March 16th) This tank after review is a huge issue in IA on large scale games. The tanks it’s repairing hit hard and are nearly impossible to crack open. A full salvo from an Ezikel against a Mammoth tank being repaired does nothing. Hitting the Mammoth recovery does nothing as well. This is a problem on maps like Suspense where GDI can literally just deathball the field with mammoth tanks and Nod is trapped. Only gets worse with upgrades. I’ve also found out that Yap intended for this vehicle to be able to repair ONLY Husks and Shells but, that’s not what’s going on as seen. Solution: Decrease the repair speed (Fire) by 10%, decrease armor by 100 hp/armor, make speed the same as the 120mm at 7.9 m/s.

 

GCT 155mm ($2,400) (GDI’s only arty): 

It’s plain and simple. Solution: Make it so there is no spread to the arty shell and it’s accurate. Currently the unit just misses nearly every shot making people not bother using it. 

 

Mirage Tank ($2,800):

Great tank. Really incredible. But just gets killed by an Ezikel in two salvos. Camera is also super annoying. Solution: Make it so that the mirage tank has to deploy to turn into a tree. Make deployment take like 1 second. This will make it so that people can choose when to be a tree and when not to.

 

Wolverine: Increase speed please. Like by 3 times as much at least.

 

M1134 Stryker ATGM ($1,600): Great hit and run vehicle. Not so good at the running part. Solution: Increase forward speed by 1 m/s. If reverse is buffed then this would just become a TOW Humvee V2. Unit also has an A.I. 50 Cal. As a result a very slight buff works for me. Welcome to comments on what to do. Unit is typically used as support. (NOTE: Yap has said in Discord this tank will be changed in the future in regards to steering/driving fixtures.)

 

Mitsubishi SPAGG 57: Wow, this thing needs to be fixed. Solution: Increase firing speed by 2.2. This will use more ammo but will also increase the damage properly. Don’t increase damage. Don’t increase range. This method of large ammo count and fast firing has found succues in the Nod Zsu-57 Quad Anti Aircraft Tank. It fires incredibly fast like a true AA should. Not modifying the damage means it doesn't destroy tanks unfairly fast. The same ammo means that it still has to eventually reload. It might require some tuning but I believe it's a start.

 

Titan (Both): Great units. Love them how they are. Just wish the speed was increase by 1 m/s. Currently slower than a Mammoth 36 inch Tank.

(Edit March 16th: Hover MLRS ($1,800)

Love this unit. Believe it’s balanced actually. It’s just the smoke that appears after firing your missiles is unbearable. You can’t return fire at this unit for 10 seconds because it’s literally just a white cloud in front of your screen. It’s so bad it honestly could be listed as a weapon for this unit. Solution: Please remove the smoke from being hit by the missles. It lags the game and is just unnecessary.

 

NOD Vehicles:

M1083 Supply Vehicle ($300): Primarily to resupply as indicated by its name. Instead of just removing it, I would reccomend increasing the speed to 18 m/s. Currently the speed is at 13 m/s and it has slow acceleration. If you don't want to change it then just remove. The wiesel does a better job at resupplying. An alternate buff would be to make it deployable but have 100 armor.

 

AMX-10RC ($950): I actually like this unit where it's at. It's unfortantely overshadowed by other GDI amphibious units. I don't beleive this needs a buff or a Nerf. It should be noted that this unit is VERY potent with upgraded armor.

 

T55 ($1,250): This unit is a single barrel T-62. While it costs 550 less than a T-62 and is slightly faster. I believe it should have the same armor as the T-62. T55 currently has 675 while the T-62 has 715. This will further it's role as a cheaper, more nimble tank and possibly make someone buy it instead of the T-62 which is typically preffered. (NOTE: Yap has said in Discord this tank will be decreased in price)

 

MGT-A1 Microwave Tank ($1,250): Quite possibly one of the worst preforming units in-game. This unit NEEDS to be changed. The concept is cool. A tank that paralyzes other tanks and is extremely unique/cool. However the mechanics behind it are not widely known to most. Basically, to "Stun" a tank, the tank you're firing at has to be at 25-20% health. The problem however is the Microwave tank has very short range, low Armor/HP, can't do anything else and costs a good amount. In addition, it doesn't say anywhere that someone has to get the health down at 25% before the tank actually is able to do its job. So you have new people using this tank wondering why it's not working and IA regulars not even bothering to use the tank because why would you. Solution: Make it so it *stuns* tanks at 50% health. Why? Because that's when the armor is gone on every single tank and it makes sence. You're risking missing out an extra T-62 for your rush by using a Microwave tank instead. This risk should be rewarded. It also forces you to use the unit in a rush and not by itself becuase you can't damage vehicles with this unit. Only stun them.

Six Wheeled BDRM Spitfire ($1,250): When making this list I try to avoid saying just to remove units. This unit is very useless because it's as week as an APC (which already is a specfic use unit) and the Spitfire weapon above isn't worth $1,250. I understand changing the prices is difficult (Because only 4 units can fit into each price at a time) so I would reccomened doing something cool with this unit. I would make the firing rate 4 times as fast but retain the ammo. Why? It basically has a Firefly SBH Laser rifle on top of the unit, but making the firing speed times 4 makes it a more potent Anti Infantry unit. It's not OP if the rate is x4 because the ammo is still 50 and the reload is still 5 seconds long. In addition it's an APC that's easily killable by Mammoth Tanks. This turns the vehicle into a Mini gun laser which I think would be super cool to have in IA.

Blackhand Light Tank ($1,550): This tank is serverly underpowered. The speed at 15 m/s is very good and the armor is decent but the problem remains with the gun. In order to solve this I would make it fire twice as fast because it preforms like a $700 tank at the moment.
(NOTE: Yap has mentioned in Discord this tank will be changed for the better next patch)

Golaith Tracked Mine ($1,550): I love where this unit is at. I believe it's perfect. The only problem is the price. The price prevents a lot of people using it to counter Mammoth Tank spam. I would decrease the price to $900. (The reason I say $900 is there's only 3 vehicles at the $900 slot and the maximum the game can handle is 4 vehicles.) I would like the price to be at $1000, but due to game limitations $900 is fine. 

M31A1 Bradly ($1,550): This tank use to be really potent and hit great a couple years ago. However, no one has used it since. The reason is that the tank is meant to be a hit and run tank. Just like Nod vehicles should be. But the armor, price and speed hinder people from ever using this as a hit and run vehicle. There are two soltuions. Solution 1: Make the vehicle $900 how it is now and -50 HP/Armor. This makes it so Nod has something at the start of the game to take on GDI tanks. It also ensures it's not widly overpowered at the start of the game. Solution 2: Leave the vehicle price at $1,550 and increase the speed from 12 m/s (Currently) to 16 m/s. This will make the unit actually be able to be used as a fast hit and run tank like it's meant to be. The tank has a large profile so increasing the speed this much isn't as much of a buff as you may think. In addition the 12 m/s speed it has now typically means it can't preform like a hit and run tank anyways.

TOS-1 Burrantino ($1,750): This Nod arty is so cool and after testing almost worth it for it's price but not quite there. The reload takes 9 seconds. The damage from a full salvo on a GDI building is two full health bars (Assuming you land all the shots. Also out of 10 health bars.) I would make the reload 7.5 seconds to give it that little edge to make it worth the price. The reason is people usually skip this unit and get a Koksan.

25SD-Sprout ($1,750): This was the Nod Amphibious unit that was supposed to balance the odds for Nod. The range on this unit is long which is a great positive. The only problem is it's usually 2-3 shot'd by a TOW Humvee or killed by an opposing GDI ADATS M113/Hover Craft. I think this unit could use a buff (Especially because Nod doesn't have any other Amphibious units) The solution I reccomend for the price is a Coxial Machine Gun to take on infantry, 40HP/40Armor buff and most importantly a faster reload. The reload is at 5 seconds. I would change it to 4 seconds. A faster reload means you still have to be tactical with the unit and exposure yourself more often to deal better damage. This is opposed as to a damage buff which means that you just have to hit other people then take cover.

Tick Tank Firebug ($2,100): This unit is good actually. It's just not worth the price. The Firebug Tick goes 9.1 M/S, while the 120mm goes 8.3 m/s. I like to see this differentation but it's not enough. To make the Ticktank firebug worth more I would give the secondary fire (The Shotgun burnning rounds) 10 shots instead of 4. This makes it so the firebug is not only slightly faster, but cheaper, and more anti infantry rather than anti vehicle.

SSM Launcher MLRS Frame ($2,100): Wow. I think I found the problem with this unit. The reload is 20 seconds long.. Solution make the reload 9 seconds long.

Stridsvagen 105mm ($2,400): One of the defining units that made Nod, Nod back then. This needs to be changed please. The Stridsvagen CAN 1 v 1 a Mammoth Tank Railgun but it requires skill. The skill is involved by rotating your tank and being in the correct position while also being able to "predict" where the Mammoth Tank is going to go. Why? Because you're limited again to firing forward. I'm saying this because it shows how skillful players can use this tank properly. The problem however is the aimming. To aim you have to turn your tank, but the game ethier lag, you can't turn your tank slowly enough because renegade doesn't let you/Extremely twitchy controls, your tank will slide while you're still. I've suggested it plenty of times and I will again. This unit should be able to turn it's turret 2 degrees left or right to counter the reasons above. The reasons above are out of the players control and not based on skill but rather Renegade itself. No matter what you do, you can't fight or fix against it the reasons.

Tunguska 9K22 ($2400): There's a lot to unpack about this unit here. For one, it's not used that frequently anymore because the Geko SA-8 exists. Why do people use the Geko instead? The range is farther, the missles are A.I. Controlled so it hits no matter what and it's amphbious. The Tunguska feels like a tank with a sprinkle of AA involved in it. Rather than a dedicated AA unit. The big thing however is the missles hitting vehicles. The Tunguska is great against light armor, no armor infantry and any aircraft that isn't a $2,500 ORCA Fighter. But the problem lies in the fact that late game (when tunguska is bought) GDI only gets the $2,500 ORCA Fighter. This aircraft can kill a full health tunguska with 2 shots and typically while hiding behind cover so it's impossible to retaliate. In addition the Tunguska has to have perfect sight to engage aircraft which on some maps is impossible. The armor on the Tunguska also means late game it gets killed Mammoth Railguns and nearly anything else that has heavy armor. Solution: The reload is currently 12 seconds. Make it 10 seconds instead so it's more potent. Also increase from 600 hp/armor to 650 hp/armor. This makes the Tunguska a better fighter without being OP.

Black Eagle ($2,400): This tank is meant to be the counter part to GDI's $2,400 Challenger II. The problem is the Challenger II has 1300 HP/Armor and the Black Eagle has 910 HP/Armor. The Challenger II has a coxial machine gun and moves at 11.7 M/S while the B.E. (Black Eagle) does not have a machine gun and moves at 12.2 M/S. So... the B.E. is slightly faster and can't hit infantry while the Challenger II gets 390 more HP and Armor. Solution: I think Nod BE shouldn't be a copy of the Challenger II and I like the idea of Nod's being slightly different. To do so, I would make the B.E. have 1150 HP and 1150 Armor and move at 12.6 m/s. This means that you can't kill infantry as easily as the GDI Challenger II and it's not as strong. But you are more mobile than the challenger II and can use your tank more effectively in combat.

Ezikel Wheel Stealth Tank: I like this tank where it is. If all the changes on here were made I would revisit it because the situation changed and I would like to see what people use then. But as of now I like it where it is.

Infared Stealth Tank ($2,850): This tank is meant to be used as an Anti Infantry version of the Ezikel. The only problem is at the price point it does not make any sence because the armor is set to medium. While yes, it can easily kill anything that isn't a Power Armor or Gunner so can the Ezikel. So people just buy the cheaper Ezikel. This unit is a very simple solution though. Make the armor class the same as the Ezikel and fire slightly faster. This will make it able to kill Gunner and Power Armor. It's also not OP vs vehicles because the laser can't deal that much damage to Mammoth Tanks. It's not OP vs buildings so that balances out. 

Stingray 105mm Hyper Velocity Cannon ($2,850): This unit has medium armor. As a result it gets killed easily (A TOW Humvee by itself can 2-3 shot K/O this unit) However it's extremely good against light and medium armor vehicles. The problem is by the time someone buys this unit GDI only has heavy armor vehicles out like Mammoth Tanks, Titans and 39 pdrs torts. So, I would make the armor heavy and lower the health from 700 hp/armor to 500 HP/Armor. This makes it so it can ensure GDI doesn't deploy light armor vehicles late game and get punished if they do. But it's also not unstoppable and has to be used tactically. 

T-35 ($4,100): This unit is talked a lot about in Discord for a variety of reasons. This unit is meant to be used as a 1 v 1 brawler by out-healthing whatever it goes against. In addition it's meant to be used as a meatshield for a forward assault. The guns are great vs infantry and decent vs aircraft and vehicles. I would however give it one buff to make it worth it's price. Solution: Give it an Auto Heal ability when it loses it's armor. I believe this makes the unit even more of a meatshield role and brawler as it's intended. This is also a small buff that doesn't completely make it OP or radically change it.

Pion ($6,000): Fun great unit. It's currently overshadowed however by the Koksan 170mm. I would make the reload 1 second shorter so it's worth the price and risk.

Elbrus ($6,000):  This unit when used sucessfully is devastating. Unfortantly, it's often a risk people don't use because of a variety of reasons. The deploy time is 21 seconds. The reload time seems to be around 28 seconds. The unit speed is 11 m/s. It takes 3 Elbrus's to 1 Hit K/O a building (I believe the damage is 40% each missle based on tests). I believe the damage should be 48%. So that Nod can actually reliably kill a building. Why? You're risking 3 people (1 Gap Gen, 2 Elbrus's), risking $14,100 Total, risking getting into position and GDI can get a shield to shut down your attack in seconds which means you just wasted all your money. 48% damage per hit to a building means GDI has less time to repair spam or turn on a shield. For such a large succesful gamble GDI should be punished.

T-34 ($500): Give it back the AI Flame thrower in the front. I understand some may call this over powered. But this would help balance out Nod not having anything at the start. In addition having a flamer at the front won't win against a Mammoth Tank railgun later on or a Mammoth Tank in general. It would make people actually buy this tank.

BDRM-2 ($450): Give this unit a 100 round magazine (currently has 40) and make the speed up from 14 m/s to 15 m/s.

M6 Linebacker ($800): I love this unit alot. It's very potent. Unfortantly it's hindered by the TOW Humvee from ever being used early game. Late game, people just use an Ezikel for Anti Aircraft duty. So it's been forgotten. The speed is 14.3 M/S and has good damage/capabilites. I would buff damage very slightly. If it does 100 damage now I would make it do 109 damage. This is a slight buff that would make people buy it at the start of the game and still retains it's balance imo. It helps make it go more toe to toe with GDI's early game stuff but still remains a $800 APC with an AA specality. 

ZSU-57-2 AA ($600): This unit is a result of overnerfing. About two years ago this unit used to be able to deploy and was unkillable. Now it's just useless due to low damage and a slow bullet. Solution: Make it so it reloads twice as fast.

Wisel ($600): Love this unit to. Used to be my favroite. Again, Nod can never use this early game because the TOW Humvee will usually 1 shot this unit. Reload takes 2.5 Seconds. I would make it 2.4 to 2.3 seconds so it's more of a glass cannon. I believe this tilts it to being more powerful but not quite OP.

Infiltrator AT ($900): Really don't understand what happened with this unit. The missles fire extremely slow and the reload is 12 seconds. The damage isn't even that powerful ethier which makes me confused. I would increase the firing speed by 25% and decrease the reload to 6 seconds. 

BDRM-AT-FluteAPC ($700): Reload is 13 seconds, damage is great. Reload should be 10 seconds instead.

BH Laser Light Tank ($1,600): Increase damage by 10%

Tesla Tank ($1,600): This needs to be fixed. The speed is 7.5 m/s and the turning rate is terrible. The unit is supposed to be a support unit that stays behind the main attack with light armor and hits hard. The unit hits hard and has light armor but it's speed means it usually gets stuck or killed because it can't retreat. Solution: Make the speed 13 m/s. It's profile is large enough that it can still be hit if not careful and this means the player has to use skill to attack.

ISU-122 ($1,600): Really cool unit actually. primary fire does 10% damage to a building while secondary fire does 20% damage. However the unit has low(er) health and is only usefull as a building siege weapon. I would reduce the reload times by 1 second to slightly so people might actually risk driving from Nod base to GDI base with it and firing. Currently no one uses it because it's only good against buildings, turns and moves slow, and is easily killed by other tanks GDI has near this price point.

Tick Tank ($2,100): An intersting unit. The speed for the normal tick tank is 13.9 m/s. The damage from it's main cannon isn't good against most tanks. And the machine gun isn't that good ethier. I would buff the reload time from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds on the main gun and also increase the damage by 5%. This way you have a more fast firing but less damaging tank than the firebug.

T62 ($1,800): Yap stated this tank will be decreased by 25% in cost.

Phase Tank ($1,800): I like it where it is actually. Besides a very slight increase in speed. I think it's perfect.

 

 

 

[forg0ten1]

all i know is increase wolverine speed

 

[gammelon]

Here are my 2 cents (actually more than 2 cents):
I know people will disagree with me on this one but remove the TOW humvee, the Avenger humvee should replace it.
I heard the Mammoth Recovery is going to get a rework so that it can only repair shells (which I disagree with)
I remember seeing a video or a livestream of Yap using a Stryker Cannon in his test map. The Stryker Cannon was different though as its cannon is changed. It uses projectiles instead of hitscan and it's an autoloader so it can fire 5 projectiles then reload.
The Archer has one retarded thing and it's how it moves. Forward and backwards swapped for some reason. I talked to Yap about this and he said he won't fix it becuase the vehicle worked like that in real life. Now that's stupid.
Imo, the Merkava should be a more defensive tank, so here's my changes to it. Slightly decrease the deploy, change its armor to better armor when deploys (or maybe give it sandbags, or both), and increase the range of the LAHAT missile. Also, fix the LAHAT missile coming out from the machine gun (which is already done in the next version).
Decrease the cost of the Nod Bradley tank and make it so its tow launchers can target air units.

Edited March 11, 2021 by gammelon

[odellus]

"After 22-24 players, there are so many units that the game balances itself out. But most games on IA are below 20 players which is why a problem is being found."

i think the game peaks in playability/fun somewhere between 24 and 30 players. more than that and you get mathematically impossible to defend against rushes, fewer and you get beacon spam.

"Blazing_Sands: I believe that this map is fairly balanced and is a fun time for either team. If people would like to comment on what they think of the map and also provide a solution then please do."

i like blazing sands, but the game is usually decided in the first minute based on whoever establishes control of the tib machines which is usually gdi because gdi has the best infantry units at every price point. i don't think there's enough base-level income to make it feasible for whoever misses out on control to come back. not saying it's impossible, just that it takes the losing team playing perfectly and the winning team to basically afk for it to happen. also, it's bullshit the way the cliffs wrap all the way around Nod's base.

"Nod Ballistic Sniper ($650)"

this is probably the worst infantry unit in the entire game. it is literally just a worse version of gdi's ballistic sniper. why in gods name does it use a slow projectile while gdi's counterpart gets hitscan? nonsense.

"Anti Air Specialist ($700)"

damage is just way too inconsistent, and completely useless against heavily armored air units. if the damage was just normalized to be consistently good instead of doing either nothing or chunking i'd like it a lot more.

"Black Hand ($700) (AK-107)"

delete.

"Nod Designated Marksman ($700) (SVD Dragunov)"

delete.

"GDI Ballistic Sniper ($650)"

if you remove the spread from this unit's gun, you will invalidate the 500 snipers because anyone that can aim will now one-shot-body-shot most of the game's infantry roster while also having no tracer and doing significant damage to lightly armored vehicles. honestly, just leave this unit as is or delete it. it's pretty decent if you don't try using it at extreme ranges.

"Logan ($650)"

gdi does not need yet another zero-skill AOE infantry raper that can also kill buildings. he already has the M4 for anti-infantry. make the AA12 HE do damage to vehicles; it'd make him a proper all-rounder commando unit that isn't too good at any one thing, as he should be.

"Patch ($700): Make Radar invisible."

yes, or just delete him. invalidated by like twenty other gdi infantry units.

"FLASH M202 ($700)"

the only problem with this unit is that Nod has absolutely nothing that can even remotely compete with it. firesuit, best anti-infantry weapon in the entire game that also takes no skill to use whatsoever, can swim, has two C4s, just wtf is this shit? Nod has no unit with this combination of capabilities. give them one or nerf one of these aspects.

"Marksman (DMR Sniper Rifle) ($700)"

delete.

"Havoc Power Suit ($1,750)"

i think it's fine for $1,750. dies in one ramjet headshot (maybe not at very high vet levels? but it's close enough to not really matter), slow, can't drive vehicles and does nothing to any vehicles with more than light armor. the problem is that, once again, Nod has nothing like it. gdi has simply too many insanely good infantry units, especially anti-infantry units.

"Stage II FV005 ($1,800)"

this unit is unusable undeployed, buffing its undeployed reload time doesn't fix the fact that you might hit one in 10 shots even at close range because your shells can leave your barrel at a 90 degree angle. keep the reload speed, reduce the undeployed spread. super fun unit to use if you can get into a good position to deploy, insanely frustrating to use undeployed because of how wildly inaccurate it is.

"Churchill ($400)"

this unit is worse than TOW humvee IMO. way, WAY too much effective health for 400 credits. horrifically balanced unit. completely shuts Nod out of early game on maps like great_under. it should have its health nerfed by 20% if not more or cost doubled or more. needs radical balance adjustments.

"TOW Humvee ($400)"

part of why this game is so ridiculously imbalanced is because every changelog goes like this:
damage nerfed by 82%
reload speed nerfed by 54%
cost increased 500%
turret turn speed reduced by 95%

we need more iterative balance patches instead of these massive and numerous changes. nerf one thing at a time, and nerf it slightly. if it's still too strong, nerf some other aspect of the unit or redo the previous nerf but more severe. i think all the tow humvee really needs is a reload speed nerf, maybe 20% as you suggested. it's a glass cannon, it dies unlike a lot of other high damage units, it's just too consistent in that damage because of its high ROF.

"Merkava ($1500)"

is this the one with the AI mortar and the weird-ass deploy missile fire mode thing? i like the idea of this tank, having a mobile AI mortar is really cool and unique design, the problem is that it seems almost random in its willingness to actually shoot at shit, and even if it does it usually misses entirely. make the mortar AI more aggressive and i think this thing could be a really good unit for 1500 credits. no idea what to do with the alternate deployed fire mode or if it needs changed, it just seems really janky.

"Mammoth Recovery Tank ($1,500)"

this is arguably the only truly gamebreaking unit in the game. i would welcome significantly more severe nerfs than you've proposed. increase its cost to 2800, reduce its speed, and/or nerf its health. horribly unfun unit to play against.

and since you didn't mention it (yet?):

Aegis Shield Generator

FUCK this unit. it needs to work the same way the mobile gap generator works at the VERY LEAST. it MUST be nerfed by requiring it to be occupied in order for the shield to work, you should not be able to deploy an infinite duration, infinite health, mobile, unmanned giant fucking shield like it's nothing. OR, give the shield health or a cooldown, or tie the health of the shield to the health of the vehicle. just something to make it actually interactive and able to be played against rather than the complete and utter bullshit it currently is.

[MoltenJam]

2 hours ago, Threve said:

GCT 155mm ($2,400) (GDI’s only arty): I

It’s plain and simple. Solution: Make it so there is no spread to the arty shell and it’s accurate. Currently the unit just misses nearly every shot making people not bother using it. 

 

Saw a sneak peek of an autoloader for this arty. It's really Glorious. (camera fix too I believe) 

 

2 hours ago, Threve said:

TOW Humvee ($400)

This unit is a major reason that Nod can not do anything early game. The TOW Humvee will track any unit and kill it no matter what for $400. The TOW Humvee can 3 hit K/O a Stingray 105mm, 1 Hit K/O a Banshee, Buggy’s, M109 Arty’s, A/T Stealth Comanches, etc.. I know everyone here has experienced it. It’s incredible against absolutely anything and everything. If you die then it just costs $400 so who cares. Solution: It’s easy to nerf this unit HARD. Instead what I suggest is a 25% longer reload, reduction of speed from 20 m/s to 17 m/s, -5% damage and $700. That way, yes this unit still hits hard but you had better be good and avoid fire or you’re dead.

 Replace one evil with an even greater evil. Got to ask yourself if it was worth it?

 

[sith_wampa]

Blazing Sands is just Nod arty campfest because GDI does not have vehicle access to the top. There needs to be another way to drive up there.

[Gsharp77]

What are the goals for this game?

I love the game with all of its "flaws", nothing's perfect but it took time for me to learn the ropes when I first started out and I'm still learning to this day watching the various streamers and exploring maps when server is empty or solo play.
 
The learning curve is high and new people usually don't have the opportunity to really enjoy the game before experienced players render a map unplayable. I'm at fault for this as well. I try to drag someone I've never played with with me to learn the ropes if I'm going to cheese.

Is the goal to grab OG RenCorner players looking for something more expansive?
I had an idea to chop up videos on YouTube for each of the popular maps with different teams so we can have a sort of tutorial, but I feel while we'd retain some new players this way, it would take away their ability to discover strategies on their own.

Is this game focused on team strategies to win currently or are we encouraging solo strategies? (Nod victories almost always require teamwork while GDI has many more solo MVP strategies.)

Is the goal to keep the current die hard IA player base happy and keep games 5 v 5 10 v 10 at best?

I'll be happy as long as I'm informed of when stuff gets buffed or nerfed. 

My 2 cents

Infantry:

Is it deliberate that a $200 rocket soldier does everything better than it's $1000-$2000 counterpart?

Better range, more ammo, more damage, more accessible, can drive, can swim. I mean they drive the early game, so I don't mind I'm just wondering why someone would buy the more expensive projectile anti-vehicle characters ever at the moment. Specifically, with the goal of killing base defenses by outranging them from a safe position.

There seem to be many redundant infantry units that can be axed, especially the multiple sniper units. This mod almost seems anti-sniper where you're not really getting your team points or driving them to victory by camping and sniping IMHO. 

GDI Vecs:

You said it all

Nod Vecs:

Almost everything but Zeke is inferior to its GDI counterpart.

On the other hand, on almost any map if you can get Sgen with BH Flamers Nod will dominate. Goes back to the question are we encouraging team work or solo MVP play?

Make $900-$950 Bike also AA and outrange AGT, or something to justify the price. Currently the $400 Tow Humvee does the bike's job at half the price and it drives better too.
Does anyone else think with all the weapon pickups, stealth suits, Ob guns, AGT guns, Vet system, etc. Crates just puts it over the top?

Would anyone miss if crates went away?

[SBHBS]

Yea most of this changes is great, and i want to add one more.. Balance change or so. The resuply vehicles. They main role is to support infantry. I and some of my comrads thinks about it and came to point that Nod needs a better resuply armored vehicle. The point here is that GDI can kill every resuply vehicle in seconds if they dont have armor upgrade. And if Nod dont have needed funds for ezeks, then resuply vehicles and infantry deals with them and it work pretty good. Best example is great under, 2 meltas + BMD on tib field. Or lancer with rocket soldiers with BH LCG or doza. Nod have supporior AT infantry but they need good support for resuply. And i have idea. Make T35 resuply so it dont have its buff aura or smth propaganda like. Its Best siuts as support fat tank role. Slow, have guns to support infantry, suck a lot of damage. Best infantry can have as support for resuply. With this i think T35 will be more usfull and Nod have more infantry using potential over all. 

 

My second note, GDI need second resuply vehicle. AAV is just... Not that good. Sure it can swim, but it have no damage, long reload and die too fast if dont have armor upgrade. Soo, if possible, add one more resuply vehicle for GDI. I suggest resuply striker with minigun for price 800-1200. It will be great anty infantry and resuply support. + IA already have 2 strikers models for GDI. 

Now i want to say about GDI fitter recovery (M113 with rep gun). Fix it so it have full 360 turn rate and make angle bigger like Nod BRDM recovery. I really have no idea why it limited that way. Its great early or budget recovery support vehicle for both sides (it heal faster, have good armor and healt so it can take some hits, and if you push with good amout of tanks in formation, its Best im hold the groun. Mostly found that when play Ulake and we have great tank formation, even rail Mammoth Tanks sux a lot there.)

[cnclol]

its unfair that a 1800 mrls can kill a 3000 banshee in less that 1 full barrage, like come on its not even supposed to be an aa unit, also speaking of aa units, Nod tonguska's rockets are a litte op in that of their range, and its quite unfair that they're hoaming, if Nod is pushing with at least one tonguska gdi cant really use any airpower, since you need around 5 or 6 rockets to kill a firghter and everything else has less armour, chinooks are way too slow so even tanks can shoot them down. Also on the other hand Kawasi (the GDI helicopter i dont think im spelling it or the tonguska right xd) rush is kinda op early game, its cost makes it so that GDI can kill the obelisk on most maps within 10 mins of the game, and Nod can stop it, but the combined firepower of Kawasi and the usual lack of Nod intel makes it so the obelisk goes down 90% of the time.

 

Also on the great wall map gdi and Nod both have tanks for free that can 1shot the mg and tow emplacements, which is kinda op since u can rush with them and just deny the enemy having defences until ur team comes with heavier vehicles etc.

[Threve]

8 hours ago, odellus said:

I think the game peaks in playability/fun somewhere between 24 and 30 players. more than that and you get mathematically impossible to defend against rushes, fewer and you get beacon spam.

"Anti Air Specialist ($700)"

"Black Hand ($700) (AK-107)"

"Logan ($650)"

"Patch ($700): Make Radar invisible."

"FLASH M202 ($700)"

"Havoc Power Suit ($1,750)"

"Stage II FV005 ($1,800)"

"Churchill ($400)"

"TOW Humvee ($400)"

"Merkava ($1500)"

"Mammoth Recovery Tank ($1,500)"

Aegis Shield Generator

I agree with most of what you said. However,

The Anti Air Specialist is great against most aircraft besides the Hind which I think is fine. It gives Nod a cool edge in the air catergory.

I believe there's hope for the Black Hand using the changes listed above.

Logan AA-12 HE should do more damage to vehicles. The AA12-HE litterely doesn't do anything which confused me. Not a huge problem though.

Patch. Radar invisible Patch is something I'd use.

FLASH M202. I could deal with this unit only having 1 Timed C4. Although as I listed later, I would like for Nod to get an M202 Flash as well to deal with GDI's.

Havoc Power Suit. I still believe that this unit only encourages killwhoring. It's ethier at base refilling or camping Nod base that's being whored. 

Stage II FV005. This unit was used as a MBT before being nerfed. To make it usefull again maybe a faster deploy time so it can be used effectively?

Churchill. One of the main reasons why Nod can't do anything at the start as well. The tank should be WAY slower as a nerf to make up for it's armor. Like 4.0m/s

TOW Humvee. That is why the nerf's i reccomened were reasonable. This unit currently decimates anything that's light armor and medium armor in an unescapable locking missle. Nerfing the damage by 5% means it still hits HARD. The reload nerf means that it hits hard still but not as often. The speed nerf mean it's more possible to actually hit the vehicle. The Humvee 50 cal currently goes 22 M/S. The TOW Humvee goes 20 M/S. I don't see how it's fair for a $200 price difference. I believe the speed should be 17 m/s. The nod coutnerpart (The BDRM-AT Flute APC thingy) is $700 and hits pretty hard/is balanced but can be 1 hit K/O'd by a TOW Humvee. Brining all this up, I believe justifys the slight nerfs reccomened for this unit. It still retains it potency but isn't unusable for $700. It requires more skill to use but if used correctly will hit nearly just as hard. If you die, then the $700 credits start to add up. It will also be a good base point to see if the nerf's are enough instead of being massively nerf'd at the start.

Mammoth Recovery Tank. I agree. As said earlier, two of these repairing each other and repairing the mammoth tanks in front of it is nearly impossible to kill. I would increase the price as you suggested to a higher price (Around $2,800) and make the speed the same as the Mammoth 120mm (7..9 m/s) along with a slight decrease in HP and Armor (50)

Aegis Shield Generator. I did not bother mentioning this unit because I know that it's ethier in-game or not in-game. There's no inbetween. I would like it so you're forced to be inside the vehicle for the shield to work. However I can see people AFKing in the vehicle or just abusing it. I don't think the changes you suggested like the shield having health are possible because of the game engine. It's a neccasary evil imo.

 

6 hours ago, Gsharp77 said:

What are the goals for this game?

Infantry:

Is it deliberate that a $200 rocket soldier does everything better than it's $1000-$2000 counterpart?

Better range, more ammo, more damage, more accessible, can drive, can swim. I mean they drive the early game, so I don't mind I'm just wondering why someone would buy the more expensive projectile anti-vehicle characters ever at the moment. Specifically, with the goal of killing base defenses by outranging them from a safe position.

There seem to be many redundant infantry units that can be axed, especially the multiple sniper units. This mod almost seems anti-sniper where you're not really getting your team points or driving them to victory by camping and sniping IMHO. 

GDI Vecs:

You said it all

Nod Vecs:

Almost everything but Zeke is inferior to its GDI counterpart.

On the other hand, on almost any map if you can get Sgen with BH Flamers Nod will dominate. Goes back to the question are we encouraging team work or solo MVP play?

Make $900-$950 Bike also AA and outrange AGT, or something to justify the price. Currently the $400 Tow Humvee does the bike's job at half the price and it drives better too.
Does anyone else think with all the weapon pickups, stealth suits, Ob guns, AGT guns, Vet system, etc. Crates just puts it over the top?

Would anyone miss if crates went away?

The goal of IA is to combine everything from every CnC Game nearly into one. I believe it does so wonderfully but the real goal or fun in IA is when there are a lot of powerful things that have to be used to counter other powerful things. There are in my belief a lot more underwhelming and underpowered things at the moment rather than powerful for Nod. 

The Rocket Soldier: I believe the rocket soldier is a neccasary evil. I understand it's annoying a $200, $300 unit can take out defences but in the next patch the rocket is being very slightly nerf'd. I can confirm this as i've tested it out. However, you need the rocket soldier to take out defences and at such a low cost that you can constantly do something during the game even if your credits are low. 

 

I agree there are too many sniper units that don't do anything. These were adressed as well above.

 

Nod Vehicles. I believe IA encourages both solo and Teamwork based play. This is different from vinallia renegade in which it was very limited and the only way to play was through non-stop tank spamming or just being really lucky with a beacon. I think the $950 Melta Bike is fine. It has a purpose in which it kills Mammoth 36's and Tort 39 Pdrs from behind.

I love the Ob guns, Stealth Suits and Wep pick ups. Instead of taking away I think the addition of things adds a great element to the game and the more dynamics to attack an enemy base and win the better. It's just a little fine tunning that I believe needs to happen. For example, I could do with the ADATS and AGT gun having limited ammo (Much like the EMP Grenade). This is better than just removing it completely and I think a lot of other people would agree based on what i've seen. Love crates as well because more Visceroids.

 

5 hours ago, SBHBS said:

1. The resuply vehicles. 

2. My second note, GDI need second resuply vehicle. AAV is just... Not that good.

3. Now i want to say about GDI fitter recovery (M113 with rep gun). Fix it so it have full 360 turn rate and make angle bigger like Nod BRDM recovery

1. No. I have seen you and Noizzer and NFHAVOC play in-game using the resupply vehicles. The reason is so you guys can just spam Lancers to machine gun Lancer basically any GDI Tank. I actually support this tactic and think it's pretty cool. But to buff resupply vehicles so that you're unstoppable is a terrible idea, especially a T-35. You'd at this point be unkillable. The BMD-13 and Weisel do a great just at resupplying (Especially since all you do is get a tech and reheal it anyways) and they have armor upgrades from the CC to boot.

2. GDI does not need a second resupply vehicle. I do believe that the AAV could use a faster reload, but I don't see the reason to buff any reload vehicles.

 

3. I agree.

 

4 hours ago, cnclol said:

Nod tonguska's rockets are a litte op in that of their range, and its quite unfair that they're hoaming, if Nod is pushing with at least one tonguska gdi cant really use any airpower, since you need around 5 or 6 rockets to kill a firghter and everything else has less armour

A lot to unpack here. The Tunguska 9K22 is not over powered. It costs $2,400 and barely does it's job effectively. The rockets that you're talking about barely damage to Mammoth Tanks, Titans, Tort 39 Pdrs that much because when the Tunguska is on the field these are the only units that GDI are fielding. In addition, a $2,500 ORCA Fighter can easily kill a Tunguska. Sometimes being able to 1 Hit K/O the vehicle. If your main tactic to killing a Tunguska is using aircraft anyways (Which is specfically dedicated for AA) what do you expect. As a last point, the Tunguska can be two hit K/O'd by a TOW Humvee or a Mammoth Railgun (Of which there's usually 3 in field at a time). This is not a unit that needs to be nerf'd anymore than it has.

 

Quote

Chinooks are way too slow so even tanks can shoot them down.

Chinooks are slow. But that's because it takes a while to get them up to speed. In addition that has non-targeting missles that have a massive range and the Chinook has massive armor. If you're being shot down by tanks then fly higher and get up to speed in base before going to the field. Also evaluate what you're using the chinook for. It's something that has to be purposefully used each time for ethier long range building attacks or to ferry a rush.

 

Quote

Also on the other hand Kawasi (the GDI helicopter i dont think im spelling it or the tonguska right xd) rush is kinda op early game, its cost makes it so that GDI can kill the obelisk on most maps within 10 mins of the game, and Nod can stop it, but the combined firepower of Kawasi and the usual lack of Nod intel makes it so the obelisk goes down 90% of the time.

Then watch the GDI base and alert your team that there are 6-10 Kawasakis flying around in the GDI base for no reason. It just takes 1 person. In addition you said above that the Tunguska denies all of the GDI airpower so get a Tunguska. The Kawasaki is arguably one of the most lightly armored GDI aircraft in-game and most maps with an OB and Aircraft (Ulake, Cold_Valley) you have ample time to be able to shoot down the aircraft before they reach your base.

 

Quote

Also on the great wall map gdi and Nod both have tanks for free that can 1shot the mg and tow emplacements, which is kinda op since u can rush with them and just deny the enemy having defences until ur team comes with heavier vehicles etc.

Great wall is getting a redesign. I believe that map is just a bad example to use for anything balance wise due to how limited in scope the whole entire map is for each team.

[gammelon]

Quote

The reason is so you guys can just spam Lancers to machine gun Lancer basically any GDI Tank. I actually support this tactic and think it's pretty cool.

I can't believe my eyes right now. A pro supporting an actually bullshit tactic? Dafuq is wrong with you, Threve? There's a reason why the Lancer has a long reload time, and that reason is if you remove the reload time, it becomes overpowered. You're doing something you're not supposed to do. How weak the resupply vehicle is doesn't matter.

[DVD Player]

2 hours ago, gammelon said:

I can't believe my eyes right now. A pro supporting an actually bullshit tactic? Dafuq is wrong with you, Threve? There's a reason why the Lancer has a long reload time, and that reason is if you remove the reload time, it becomes overpowered. You're doing something you're not supposed to do. How weak the resupply vehicle is doesn't matter.

...how long have you actually paid attention to the way Threve plays? He'll abuse anything that can be abused.

 

Now on for the actual balance discussion!

You've seen my big list of suggested changes to the maps, and for now all of that still stands for me. I will say this for Blazing Sands, though, is that the base economy on the map if you don't control anything extra is utterly dogshit. It's bad to the point that the first team that's capable of controlling the Tib Machines will then be able to control the game from then-on, and GDI has a good leg-up on this because of their access to the top machine. In all honesty, the tib machines in their tunnels should be removed and replaced with more obvious tib silos in their respective areas. Having the only way to reliably win the match be something that's hidden away isn't a friendly design for anyone who isn't a seasoned veteran. On top of that, the tib silos in the bases need to be upgraded. Right now, if you don't control much extra, your team will not make nearly enough money to be able to fight back.

 

As for the units listed above, I think these are some good additions to consider:

Rocket Soldier Officers - This is the unit that essentially invalidates all defensive structures on a map besides the Obelisk/AGT, and for one reason: because calling this unit a rocket soldier is a lie. This is a sniper unit in disguise. Either the range needs to be adjusted, or add some projectile drop to make this unit harder to use at longer ranges.

Nod Fanatic - I honestly think this unit could be a bit better. A buff to its damage and blast radius or a big reduction to its cost would be a good adjustment to make to have this unit see use on the field more often.

GDI Tanks - Right now I feel like GDI has far too many generic medium/light-style tanks that offer nothing to the table to make themselves drastically different in their roles from each other. If players were being honest about what really matters for GDI, the only tanks that really bring anything to the table are: The Challenger 2, as their best/most economical "medium" tank; the AMX or the Sheridan as a light tank, though you're kidding yourself if you think this is a better way to spend your money on a fast damage-dealer than the TOW Humvee; the Mammoth 120 for its range and the Mammoth Railgun for its raw damage; and the Mirage Tank for being a very dangerous glass cannon. Besides these, there is no reason to really use any other tank for GDI because nothing is distinguished enough in their roles from these few. They don't offer anything to the table to set themselves apart, and it makes for a rather bland way to play the team. On top of that, they're supposed to be getting yet ANOTHER generic light/medium tank, which is really just going to saturate their selection of bland. When considering vehicles, at least look at how the Sheridan, which is great for its amphibious capabilities and how decently strong its weapon is against structures and defences, compares to the AMX, which with its better speed and faster fire-rate/more accurate weapon better cements itself versus vehicles. Or how the Mammoth 120mm still ends up being around just as viable as the Mammoth Railgun for its difference in cost but, more importantly, the range of its weapon and how it can be used better in certain situations. Having distinct roles for different vehicles is what makes the game interesting to play.

GDI Prism Tank - If we were ever concerned about removing RA2-styled units, we could redesign this thing as some sort of experimental railgun platform, and it would functionally still be the same. But, in terms of proper balance, I feel like this unit is generally kind of underwhelming. Its range is meant to be its strong point, and I feel like a small boost to its damage would be good and help cement its use among other long-ranged damage dealers that GDI has, such as the HMLRS or the ADATS.

GDI Orca Truck - This unit is useless. I get the idea, being a mid-field refill pad for aircraft, but the fact of the matter is that, like the Wolverine Bridge, it becomes something you have to completely babysit or else it just gets easily blown up or stolen. Not only that, but the benefits that this unit offers are next to nothing for a real simple reason: there isn't a single map in this game that's large enough to justify this unit. It takes literally seconds for any aircraft to make it back to base for its refill. Saving time on this is such a small, negligible difference that there's no point to waste your time and money on this unit. Buying and using this unit, even as seriously as possible, is just wasting your money, your time by setting it up and babysitting it, and in the end you're just giving Nod points. Remove this unit so people can stop team hampering pretending they can make it do something meaningful.

GDI Wolverine Bridge - Again, this unit, for all purposes, is completely useless. The only way to "use" it is to access hyper specific points for your team, only to watch this get stolen or destroyed very easily. It's a waste of money, and otherwise is only used by GDI players who waste the entire game trying to play minecraft with this fucking piece of shit and make build a bridge across the map, only to have it never succeed. There's no reason for this unit to be in the game. Remove it from the roster so teammates can stop hampering the game, and place repairable destroyed bridges on the all of three maps where this unit is even intended to be used.

Will comment again when Nod stuff is posted.

 

[Threve]

2 hours ago, gammelon said:

I can't believe my eyes right now. A pro supporting an actually bullshit tactic?

It's a tactic nonetheless which is what I support. It's also a tactic that has a counter which is to just get rid of the Support vehicle (which are usually weak APC's). This forces team gameplay and also is able to be stopped. I don't support buffing the support vehicles however because of said tactic being used effectively already.

 

 

[BeerBaron]

Infantry:

the m1a socom is a fantastic rifle and I love to use it.

the dmr is, in fact, useless.

the dragonov is similar to the dmr, but useful for sustained heavy aimed shots at close-medium range.

the aa12-he is a pos, he means high explosive but does less damage to vehicles than the incindeary.

the einfield is also, in fact, useless.

the melta definitely needs more ammo. u get 33 to reload, thats 11 shots. unless you can refill, this is useless for dealing with vehicles.

all bh with carapace armor are really lame actually. they just move too slow. tarantula is decent but I wouldnt buy the unit because its easily picked off by anyone with decent aim.

completely disagree with odellus on the bh elite (ak107), great anti-inf weapon.

completely disagree with threve on the pic sydneys. they do decent damage to vehicles, and some serious damage with heavy weapons upgrades. (mk2)

as for all the cheap units with rocket launchers that are not schlotskis, why bother, a free shotgun trooper's ats and the vulture are going to do better in ANY situation.

flame and chem backpack weapons are good, when u get them using a !wep. but if u buy the character, your too slow to do anything but remove barricades built by sappers.

the volt rifle is great, however if your using secondary fire, you have the same problem with ammo as the melta.

 

vehicles:

threve is wrong about titan 105mm, it moves much faster than titan rails.

there IS a decent Nod vehicle under 900, the t34 artillery. but yah, nothing has damage, mobility, or even armor/hp that can compete with the gdi selection. but tbh havent ever tried killing a pillbox with a spitfire apc. I would recommend changing reload time on the humv tow to something like the 10 shot amx.

Nod needs something comparable to the 400 churchill and the 800 centurion. the only real answer is the amphibious amx for 950 which has very little hp/armor, or the 1250 t54. and even if Nod wins that fight, nowhere near cost effective. bh light tanks might be an answer, but they need their cost reduced dramatically.

[MoltenJam]

9 minutes ago, Threve said:

It's a tactic nonetheless which is what I support. It's also a tactic that has a counter which is to just get rid of the Support vehicle (which are usually weak APC's). This forces team gameplay and also is able to be stopped. I don't support buffing the support vehicles however because of said tactic being used effectively already

 

Once their refill goes down they are literal bricks with anime sticks. Give em' the ole m202 arc and watch them scatter like roaches for cover.

[Cain Marder]

16 hours ago, odellus said:

Black Hand ($700) (AK-107)"

delete.

"Nod Designated Marksman ($700) (SVD Dragunov)"

delete.

I'd rather see these on a lower price value as Threver suggested, I managed to use both and tbh, the AK 107 is a good fast response unit as it outdamages people in a 1v1, a good base guard if it could be reduced to a more fitting price, the Dragunov could simply be reduced to being a budget marksman choice for when you have to tightent the belt, it becomes more effectiive at mid range and with the use of ledges you can make a good use of it then make a hasty escape, indeed it has a spread but it firest faster which makes for a fair tradeoff.

[Guard55]

I agree a lot with what Threve has stated but here's my quick thoughts on some units.

 

I don't think the Mammoth Tank Railgun should have worse depression. There's already nerfs being heaped onto the unit, why make it worse? It's not addressing the core problem, which is that Nod lacks a capable Brawler MBT that can go toe-to-toe with some of the GDI heavy hitters. From what I've seen on the Test Server and from Yap's discord stream, he has Nod MBTs already lined up but waiting to be implemented.

 

I'd take a look at the Prism tank. It's lack of armor and HP makes it get insta killed all the time. All you have to do is hit the blue portion of it's turret and kaboom one hit kill. I never use it because of how fragile it is. It just means free points for any Ezekiel driver out there.

 

Not quite sure what the Chemical Warrior has going for it. Maybe a cost reduction and buff to it's damage output? The unit dies instantly because of it's lack of mobility.

 

I'm on the fence with making Gunner squishable.

 

I don't really have much to add, but that's because much of what I've wanted to say has already been said. That and many of the issues presented are being addressed in the next patch from what I've heard.

 

[Cain Marder]

11 minutes ago, Guard55 said:

I'm on the fence with making Gunner squishable

In my opinion, this is a must, the unit as is is simply too strong, it might actually make the !support a tad bit more bearable which would be having two positive changes in one simple tick

Edited March 11, 2021 by Cain Marder

[Guard55]

5 minutes ago, Cain Marder said:

In my opinion, this is a must, the unit as is is simply too strong, it might actually make the !support a tad bit more bearable which would be having two positive changes in one simple tick

 

Perhaps. I'd be willing to give it a go for the patch and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, it can be reverted.

As an aside, people have to treat changes like it's not permanent. Changes can be reverted or modified, people just have to be thorough in their explanations and reasonings. All too often, I see people screeching about a unit being broken without actually saying why it's broken. Another issue is when a player isn't using a unit efficiently and/or effectively and starts to complain that it's unplayable. I'm just grateful that Threve is here to add context for what makes a unit great or awful.

[Cain Marder]

3 minutes ago, Guard55 said:

As an aside, people have to treat changes like it's not permanent. Changes can be reverted or modified, people just have to be thorough in their explanations and reasonings. All too often, I see people screeching about a unit being broken without actually saying why it's broken. Another issue is when a player isn't using a unit efficiently and/or effectively and starts to complain that it's unplayable. I'm just grateful that Threve is here to add context for what makes a unit great or awful.

it's always good te experiment with things and tweak, rather than slam something senselsly and no patch is eternal anyways, some changes can be well done, some can be terribly done too, but nothing lives forever, especially when the name of the game is balanacing haha, I just hope this thread and discussion will server as an insight for both devs and players from both sides as well, voicing their point and getting some insight about the general feel of the unit, tactic, map, defense structure etc. from seasoned players and people that found a niche role worth honning.

[Raptor29aa]

22 hours ago, DVD Player said:

GDI Orca Truck - This unit is useless. I get the idea, being a mid-field refill pad for aircraft, but the fact of the matter is that, like the Wolverine Bridge, it becomes something you have to completely babysit or else it just gets easily blown up or stolen. Not only that, but the benefits that this unit offers are next to nothing for a real simple reason: there isn't a single map in this game that's large enough to justify this unit. It takes literally seconds for any aircraft to make it back to base for its refill. Saving time on this is such a small, negligible difference that there's no point to waste your time and money on this unit. Buying and using this unit, even as seriously as possible, is just wasting your money, your time by setting it up and babysitting it, and in the end you're just giving Nod points. Remove this unit so people can stop team hampering pretending they can make it do something meaningful.

Hey I like the Orca Truck!- The unit allows for ammo and repair... although a slightly faster repair rate would make this unit more useful. As it Is currently it will repair light damage by the time the ammo is refilled... not the most useful if you still have to fly to an SD. Some maps don't have an aircraft refill and repair pad. (Whenever playing on Cold Valley as GDI I buy one, it pays off by taking the time normally used for SD between attacks) - Buff Unit by increasing repair rate -

 

22 hours ago, DVD Player said:

Nod Fanatic - I honestly think this unit could be a bit better. A buff to its damage and blast radius or a big reduction to its cost would be a good adjustment to make to have this unit see use on the field more often.

Yes! a BIGGER BOOM!!! I would love to one shot a group of power suit Sydney units in a small cave with one healer!

On 3/11/2021 at 8:26 AM, Threve said:

Logan AA-12 HE should do more damage to vehicles. The AA12-HE litterely doesn't do anything which confused me. Not a huge problem though.

Patch. Radar invisible Patch is something I'd use.

Yes Please!!!

 

On 3/10/2021 at 10:39 PM, Gsharp77 said:

Does anyone else think with all the weapon pickups, stealth suits, Ob guns, AGT guns, Vet system, etc. Crates just puts it over the top?

"OH HELL NAH" -Will Smith

(weapon pickups add hope, stealth suits add the frustration, Vet system adds incentive, Ob & AGT guns where supposed to add a base defense/tank killer mid game, Crates just add random spicy bits (like the Viceriod crate, death crate, refill crate, and health crate... etc)

MAPS:

Orca Heights: No Def, except a few Pillboxes, and Laser Turrets. Also add a Tib Gen to both sides outer walls (keep it spicy)

Ulake: Remove War Factory AGT, but add Vehicle access to both Hills by GDI Base

Great Wall: I know remake: Just needs a few Tib Gens placed in the village area to offset the need for the Forg Cave (By the Way, the opponent can capture the wall's defenses outside the wall and turn them on the base, fun times)

Cold Valley: Remove AGT, but add a turret to Forgotten SD, the pill goes down almost too fast (Nod early campsite for artillery)

Mt Pass: Needs a secondary attack route, if not for Vehicles then for infantry (foot path is a joke, small bit of lag/strafe and  watery death). Also give both sides a Forgotten Hub like Under.

[GibbletsnBits]

Invisible Ladders....Y?

 

Industrial Strength - Horseshoe shaped cliffs surrounding both bases.

Please add even an infantry path if not a full on vehicle ramp for access to the ridge from the inside of the bases.

It seems to me that the vehicles GDI can take at start vs the vehicles for Nod to steal are completely mismatched. Nod has a comparatively pathetic assortment of vehicles that can't rival the impact that GDI gets from even having 1 MSG.

 

Blazing Sands

Problem - Nod gets easy vehicle access to outer cliff.  Solutions - 1) Give GDI similarly easy vehicle access (I can understand the balance decision not to). 2) move the forg silo almost directly across from the GDI base right at the top of the infantry path up, instead of the middle of the map.

 

Gunner

+1 to squishable - Not enough glass in that cannon yet.

 

Churchill

I've been using this obsessively for months now paired with the $100 Tank Crew. I feel and have mentioned in game that I think it's the best combined value for $500. I could see the Churchill being worth 700+ as is. The issues the vehicle has is too much health and it's the best anti-infantry vehicle with 2 machine guns for 400. I've run up to and through a Lancer, all because of the volume of fire. I'd suggest decreasing it's health by 20% and consider some tweaks to the hull mounted machine gun, maybe give it a hull flamer instead. I don't feel that speed is the problem for this tank, it's the size of the map that skews it's worth.
 

TOW Humvee

I'd suggest increased reload time 30%+ or remove.

 

Rocket Soldier Officers

They perform their bukkake dance and all the defenses get invalidated. Problem - range + accuracy <- nerf one of these to prevent server wide rqs

 

GDI rep vehicle $350

is so objectively worse and slightly more expensive then the Nod equivalent

 

Because map size does skew the viability of certain units is it possible to dis/allow certain units on maps they're problematic or make no thematic sense?

Edited March 14, 2021 by GibbletsnBits
additional idea

[Raptor29aa]

21 hours ago, GibbletsnBits said:

GDI rep vehicle $350

is so objectively worse and slightly more expensive then the Nod equivalent

Let’s see the Nod one has 360 turning turret, and is amphibious (can repair ships, big advantage late game)

 

21 hours ago, GibbletsnBits said:

Churchill

I disagree on the health nerf. The vehicle always had a lot of health and firepower. What has made this vehicle purchased and used is when the speed was buffed. It used to move as slow as the wolverine and now it’s a cheap armored jackrabbit. (I used to counter this unit by kiteing around it, now it’s not possible).

[Kaskins]

Before i go through each and one of those I am going to make it very clear that this won't change as it is fixed.

Infantry unit pricing are based off Vanilla Renegade pricing and its location of most of the units ( exceptional of relocation of Hotwire by Dblaney1 ) and this is permanent already no more adjusted pricing. So those units you are seeing they are fixed prices, the only optional is i extend to 2nd page. So if you want things cheaper is either move around within the current slot preferably. Infantry weapons such as Vervack Piercing Sniper Rifle and Ramjet should be how it was or close to how is it in Renegade, although I do not agree with Ramjet shooting down Orca Assault Craft/Apache in 4 shots, in IA they needs to be at least 7 shots. Hitting weakspot you may destroy it with less than 4 shots is a bonus incentive. Any unit that is the same other than different outfit and armor type especially with + addon backpack grant 10% 20% 30% ( tied to their Tier ) more firepower per shot excluding 2nd fire.

When suggesting such balance please do NOT take into consideration of !support/!Weapon/!Character/ and !Ammo as those are beyond my control. They will be replace by IA design variant which won't be anytime soon.

Regarding Gunner. If gunner want to be Crush-able I am fine by revert back to its damage previous before the time when his damage were reduce and given non-crushable. Current damage per shot is 197, increasing to 249 ( upgraded 206 increase to 396 ) This is back when Gunner rush base was a thing. He is also radar visible and his range reduce to 130.

Nod BRDM 6 Wheel doesn't have the ability to swim unfortunately, it will be rectify in the next build as it should not have swimming capabilities. This fix for this patch was so long pending at the side and it still not yet update the new one and players are finding this out thinking is a meta. Should it be swim capable? Hmm...

Any maps that is not E06 will require a overhaul to fit with the new feature and addons units

 

[Threve]

On 3/19/2021 at 3:29 PM, Kaskins said:

So if you want things cheaper is either move around within the current slot preferably.

I understand which is why in some of the points (Like the golaith) I reccomended it be moved to locations that only have 3 slots filled at the moment instead of the maximum 4.

 

 

On 3/19/2021 at 3:29 PM, Kaskins said:

Regarding Gunner. If gunner want to be Crush-able I am fine by revert back to its damage previous before the time when his damage were reduce and given non-crushable. Current damage per shot is 197, increasing to 249 ( upgraded 206 increase to 396 ) This is back when Gunner rush base was a thing. He is also radar visible and his range reduce to 130.

I'm very confused and concerned about this. I did some tests to confirm what I think about this purposed change. I got a Gunner, an Ezikel and a Mammoth Railgun and did some tests to see the firepower of each on the current build on IA right now. I fired directly at the front of an Ezikel to determine how long it takes to kill it. All shots were aimmed at the same spot (Front windshield). Here's what I found.

Currently (All units are un-upgraded):
Gunner will kill an Ezikel in 11.22 Seconds by firing at an Ezikel (Reload time included)

A Mammoth Tank Railgun will kill an Ezikel in 15.3 seconds. (Reload time included)

Increasing the damage per shot from 197 to 249 is a purposed 26.4% increase to the current damage. If the damage was a 100% increase, it would in theory mean it kills a unit twice as fast. So i'm going use this theory to apply for the time.

26.4% (Increased damage)/half = 13.2% . (I'm dividing in half to calculate the time. If it was 100% of an increase in damage it would mean the unit would kill 50% faster. Twice the damage = half the time.)
So 13.2% of 11.22 seconds = 1.48 seconds (Rounded from 1.48104)

 So 11.22 - 1.48 means that with the new changes gunner will kill an Ezikel in 9.74 seconds un-upgraded.
 

With upgrades...

197 (What was tested) to an upgraded 396 damage is a purposed 101% increase to the tested damage (197). So.

101%/half = 50.5%.
So 50.5% of 11.22 seconds = 5.65 (Rounded from 5.656)

So 11.22 - 5.65 = 5.67 Seconds. This means that with the new changes gunner would kill an Ezikel in 5.67 seconds upgraded.  (Side Note: The time would actually be faster/shorter than calculated since Gunner would have 9 rockets instead of 6 upgraded. I would need to test this out to see if he could kill an Ezikel in 1 Salvo with the changes or is forced to reload.)

Again for comparison a Mammoth Railgun kills an Ezikel in 15.3 seconds.

I welcome anyone to correct or fix my math if it's wrong, messing with the time and percentage calculations is again difficult but I believe this is correct what i'm assuming if not giving an idea of the changes. The reason I put all of this is to show that Gunner's damage is fine where it is. I think he should be crushed because he can just run next to ezikels at the moment and they can't do anything about it. Making him crushed mean ezikels have a chance and he's still OP slightly but not a huge ammount. As in he's fun to use. The math above does not take into account hitting the side armor weakspots or hitting from rear which i believe would kill an ezikel faster. Gunner I don't believe needs to be buffed to fight back against anything since he can already take on everything (And really well if I may add).

[forg0ten1]

buff luna

[Raptor29aa]

On 3/20/2021 at 10:39 AM, forg0ten1 said:

buff luna

No thank you it does enough damage. It already chews up tank armor. 

[Kickmofo]

This latest update is terrible, horrible, disgusting.....quite simply dogs balls shithouse craporela. P

• GDI is overall now OP

  • Type 10...you cant kill it

• Nod has been nerfed out of existence

  • The only decent things that changed for the better is the infrared but you doubled the price...wtf?

  • Ezkels will never be used now there shot

• Nerfed Rocket Soldier.....why? You know why because a players who play one a week bitched and moaned and you made the reguialr players suffer
• Visceroids.... there was already too many but now there are like 20 that roam the map...Get rid of them FFS!!!!!!
• Why dont you consult the mods before making changes. We are the ones play play day in and day out

Love the new walls map...beautiful and I appreciate the work that has gone into it, thank you!

Rant over

Kick

[GibbletsnBits]

Yeah the update is bonkers bad, this is what happens when you let the liquor do the thinking. I personally feel that a lack of change list and notifications reeks of "I don't want to explain myself because I can't"

[WNxHeadShot]

Might as well just remove every GDI tank besides the Type 10, Railgun Mammy/Titan, 36, ADATS and the repair vehicles..

That thing is way too powerful and I got no idea why these tanks even got added, the K2 as well, why get that one when for 300 or so more you can get the Type 10. M60s are also useless.

Don't really know the purpose of MARS, it says artillery but it's pretty bad against buildings, so maybe anti infantry?

The Sheridan was a really nice and versatile tank, decent reload with the HE and it could fend off low to mid tier tanks with the ATGM. Now you made a light tank that's supposed to use its mobility to easily move around the map and shoot stuff have to deploy and stand still to use ATGMs and get shit on by low tier infantry and vehicles because the armor is irrelevant. Who decided these are good changes? The thing literally gets killed by 3 rockets from a $200 Nod rocket trooper.

Then there's the Orca Fighters, they pretty much btfo every single air unit in the game, AT Comanches sometimes require 6 rockets to kill one from behind. The only counter is the Hind for the most part but AA troopers are also good against them. The Hind however is just straight up broken to the point where you can only kill it with heavy AA units like the ADATS but only if he's close to you. They just fly up in the sky(which seems to be the "meta") and spray down at enemies without being attacked by AA units since they're too far away.

Don't really see the point of the T82, it's like a worse T62 since it has lower mobility and gets shit on as fast as a T62.

The BMP is a pretty good vehicle and it's actually really balanced. Same with the Sprut. Infrareds were buffed to almost the power they used to have about 2 years ago but the absurd price doesn't look like a tradeoff. 4100 for a tank that can do damage unless you face the cheaper Type 10s which are several times stronger than you.

The Atlay is just a dumb vehicle.

The Msta is a weird thing, I rarely see them since people usually take out the better arties, like the SSM or the Luna.