Balance RAGE thread. bad balance.

[Death_Kitty]

Let me start with the cancerous thing that is coastal influence. Like say, if both bridges are out, but that there is an arty on said island there is now way to get rid of it. Arty duel you say? Well, that would be OK, if a stupid bug did not exist where a shell hits the side of the cliff somehow kills my V2 which is by the BARRACKS. Also, who's idea was it the give the allies 3 turrets and a pillbox on the landward route, a pillbox on the bridge and yet ANOTHER pill-box that covers both routes?! And also the horrid sov service depot positions that are utterly un-defend-able. The re one does not even have to be hit, because of that stupid bug from earlier, you know, the one that makes aiming unnecessary? and the one that is far away from the base, and out of range of FT's? the allies don't suffer such a dumb service depot spot?! (and plus they have mechs.)

 

*takes a few very deep breaths*

*takes out all cuss words out of above statement*

 

here are my suggestions:

 

1.) allies lose base defenses, that almost never get attacked by land because of arty pressure by the allies. 2 of the turrets need to go, as well as the bar. pillbox.

2.) change sov. service depot placement- put one between the ref and the radar dome, and move the other one closer to base.

3.) Give us some way to the the island after the bridges are dead, like a beach on the lake side so the island can be cleared.

4.) put more hedgehogs on allies side to reduce arty (possibly unnecessary).

 

P.S. sorry to the map maker, really, but I came off a game just now, and we (sovs) outnumbered the other team. It was cancerous.

 

[Voe]

I think the sideways rocks on the middle island need to go. V2s need an option to snipe the arties from either the front or the side, and right now they can neither (if the arty driver hides well). Pls no "urbad" responses since sniping arties with a v2 is the only thing i ever do as soviets on that map.

[Pushwall]

https://secure.w3dhub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=415613&p=621209

On top of that a bunch of Allied defenses are already being removed in the next build, but the remaining ones will be moved closer together so they cover each other better.

[Voe]

I like it, Pushwall.

[Pushwall]

P.S. sorry to the map maker, really, but I came off a game just now, and we (sovs) outnumbered the other team. It was cancerous.

 

I've been spending months trying to fix r34ch's horrible design decisions - I guess you haven't experienced the initial Delta version where the "island" was a peninsula that the Allies could never lose access to while the Soviets had a bridge to worry about, and I know for sure you haven't experienced the test versions where the dirt patch behind the house was a gem field that Allies could farm from with no risk after blowing the bridge, and was dug-in enough to give arties an even better defense than currently against V2s. A lot of the fixes have had their own repercussions though, so your feedback is appreciated

 

Oh yeah also the pier that used to be near the lighthouse (i.e. opposite the pier near the Soviet ore silo) will be returning for LST teams to drop infantry at to handle arties and/or chuck grenades/kovtillery at the refinery. Though that only benefits the sovs if they still have their sub pen.

 

Arty duel you say? Well, that would be OK, if a stupid bug did not exist where a shell hits the side of the cliff somehow kills my V2 which is by the BARRACKS

 

Client side damage. He'll have the same thing happen to him if you aim at him. Only way of fixing that is to make the arty's (and v2's for balance sake) damage all server side, which instead means that if you want to hit an arty/v2, you have to predict where the server thinks the arty is (and where the server thinks your arty is and what direction it's aiming!) instead of the current and more user-friendly system of aiming at where the arty appears to be on your screen. Take a guess at how well that'll be received.

 

because of that stupid bug from earlier, you know, the one that makes aiming unnecessary?

Try it yourself, it won't work because you do have to directly hit the SD, it just shows differently when filtered through the server and to other clients as I mentioned.

[JigglyJie]

Yes, this map is rather horrible to play on. The Allied base defences are rather clumsly placed (and too numerous) whereas the Soviet ones might as well just be nonexistant. The Soviet Service Depots are also in bad locations as well. But what really rattles my cage is, is why the Allies can still access the island even after the bridge is down (there's a small path on the right side of that pillbox with infantry) but the Soviets can't at all. Granted that lighthouse idea is coming back, it's still not really enough, especially if a Mechanic can just waltz on in and repair the camping artilleries.

 

Also on another note, please do something about the (not so) secret door underneath the Soviet Barracks on Under. The Soviet's can't really do the same but if it stays, at least turn it into a Soviet only door so that the Allies must bring a Spy along. I mean, just why would anyone place a regular door facing towards the sea where Allied troops can just waltz on in.

[Pushwall]

Also on another note, please do something about the (not so) secret door underneath the Soviet Barracks on Under. The Soviet's can't really do the same but if it stays, at least turn it into a Soviet only door so that the Allies must bring a Spy along. I mean, just why would anyone place a regular door facing towards the sea where Allied troops can just waltz on in.

Under is already the most soviet-biased map

[Death_Kitty]

Yeah under is fine.

 

On real note: love the dock and the defense re-work, but how about moving the Service depots pushwall?

Also: So basically when the glitch happens, that player has hit me on their screen?

But what really rattles my cage is, is why the Allies can still access the island even after the bridge is down (there's a small path on the right side of that pillbox with infantry) but the Soviets can't at all. Granted that lighthouse idea is coming back, it's still not really enough, especially if a Mechanic can just waltz on in and repair the camping artilleries.

That path needs to go... want mechs on island allies? Buy LST (insert swear word here)!

Edited May 25, 2016 by Death_Kitty

[NodGuy]

Is there a reason why the Allied infantry can still get to the island if their bridge is down but the Soviets don't have the same option if they lose their bridge?

 

Edit: Wait, it's to stop Kovtillery if the Soviets lose their bridge, isn't it?

Edited May 26, 2016 by NodGuy

[Pushwall]

Edit: Wait, it's to stop Kovtillery if the Soviets lose their bridge, isn't it?

 

Yeah, though I guess you actually meant the Allies losing their bridge, which probably isn't as much as a problem as I'd thought given how easy it is for Allied infantry to get onto the island, which is why the lighthouse dock is coming back.

Also: So basically when the glitch happens, that player has hit me on their screen?

 

Yup

[MPRA2]

The only 2 things i find unbalanced with this map are; Soviet missile subs are the MAD Volk rushes of this map, as they dont need to destroy the bridges to get through them to the allied side. 2. Allied base defenses are actually really weak if soviet team has V2 skilled players, same thing goes for allies. The map is pretty much summed up into this; "Whoever can be the most skilled at arty/v2-ing and can build the largest rush of ranged units will 100% win the match"

I love the idea of the map, don't get me wrong... but both factions rely on ranged units way too heavily, and i very RARELY, i mean RAAAAAAAAAARELY see tanks (other than a few support units or a distraction for the ranged units), which a good 95% of the maps in APB don't rely this heavily on ranged units like artillery and V2 rockets. In my COMPLETELY HONEST opinion, soviets should get their tesla coil back, this time on the bridge side, to dissuade artillery camping on the middle island, also make something that blocks arty/v2 shots so they cant camp in their own base or right on a bridge to hit any enemy structure.... Try to force players to use actual VEHICLES AND SHIPS! not just ranged units.....

Edit: Last time i played as allies on this map, we were getting nearly dominated by soviet V2s and Volkovs, they had no tanks, just V2s and Volks.... I gathered about a good 5-6 light tank rush, it fell apart as we were trying to rush the right side. they bought a heavy tank, and had 3 v2 volks sitting there, and we got completely crushed.

Edited May 26, 2016 by MPRA2

[Pushwall]

The only 2 things i find unbalanced with this map are; Soviet missile subs are the MAD Volk rushes of this map, as they dont need to destroy the bridges to get through them to the allied side. 2. Allied base defenses are actually really weak if soviet team has V2 skilled players, same thing goes for allies. The map is pretty much summed up into this; "Whoever can be the most skilled at arty/v2-ing and can build the largest rush of ranged units will 100% win the match"

I love the idea of the map, don't get me wrong... but both factions rely on ranged units way too heavily, and i very RARELY, i mean RAAAAAAAAAARELY see tanks (other than a few support units or a distraction for the ranged units), which a good 95% of the maps in APB don't rely this heavily on ranged units like artillery and V2 rockets. In my COMPLETELY HONEST opinion, soviets should get their tesla coil back, this time on the bridge side, to dissuade artillery camping on the middle island, also make something that blocks arty/v2 shots so they cant camp in their own base or right on a bridge to hit any enemy structure.... Try to force players to use actual VEHICLES AND SHIPS! not just ranged units.....

Edit: Last time i played as allies on this map, we were getting nearly dominated by soviet V2s and Volkovs, they had no tanks, just V2s and Volks.... I gathered about a good 5-6 light tank rush, it fell apart as we were trying to rush the right side. they bought a heavy tank, and had 3 v2 volks sitting there, and we got completely crushed.

 

Giving the soviets their tesla coil back will just make the Allies rely on arties even more.

 

Hopefully the plateau in the thread I linked earlier will encourage people to escort their arties/v2s with something else.

 

The 2 soviet flame towers on the land route are also being moved further apart so they cover each other less, so they should be easier to take down without arties.

[NodGuy]

 

Edit: Wait, it's to stop Kovtillery if the Soviets lose their bridge, isn't it?

 

Yeah, though I guess you actually meant the Allies losing their bridge, which probably isn't as much as a problem as I'd thought given how easy it is for Allied infantry to get onto the island, which is why the lighthouse dock is coming back.

No, I mean the Soviet bridge, if it's destroyed then the Soviets have no way back onto the island, unless they use the Allied route. I thought this would be so Volkov can't cross shallow water and long-range attack the enemy base but then I just realised (after reading your post) that they can get infantry on the island anyway, even if they lose their bridge.

 

I guess my question remains: how come the Allies have this option but the Soviets do not?

 

Regarding the lighthouse dock, is this for the LSTs? Sounds fun.

[devilslayersbane]

I know that not everyone will like this idea, but maybe adding air to Coastal Influence will help. Here's why I think that:

 

1) on maps like Seamist, and Ridge war, the best way to counter an Arty/V2 rush is to throw a few attack choppers. A few hinds could easily take down a large number of Artillery, and whilst V2's are superior to self-defense against air, only a direct hit will give you a 1 hit kill.

2) The map would not need to change much. There's no special objective to defend and the map is small enough see any large air rushes and react, and you'd only really need 2-3 AA emplacements for each side to deter them autonomously, plus this would remove the need for a long laddered path in the lighthouse because the Soviets have the chinook.

3) I've always felt like this map was missing something (I mean, since I've played it. I didn't get to play it pre-gamma so....) but I feel like it would be a good change to the map and provide for a map with a full arsenal on both sides.

4) It would deal with any over-use of Missle Sub/Destroyer Spam. Again, this is similar to the Arty/V2 argument, though the choppers are less effective at this due to the nature of the naval units.

[Pushwall]

2) The map would not need to change much.

 

Only if the flight ceiling was less than the height of the cliffs

3) I've always felt like this map was missing something (I mean, since I've played it. I didn't get to play it pre-gamma so....)

 

The map never existed "pre-Gamma", it's an entirely new one for Delta.

[JigglyJie]

 

Also on another note, please do something about the (not so) secret door underneath the Soviet Barracks on Under. The Soviet's can't really do the same but if it stays, at least turn it into a Soviet only door so that the Allies must bring a Spy along. I mean, just why would anyone place a regular door facing towards the sea where Allied troops can just waltz on in.

Under is already the most soviet-biased map

 

 

How so? Ever since the coil got knocked down to flame towers (now 1 )the Allies are attacking more often. You even changed it so the Soviet dome faces towards the tunnel. Plus there's also the issue of the AI ore truck struggling to get up the hill outside the base. If the Allied dome-pillbox remains operational, you can't utilise that tunnel. I'm not even sure where this Soviet bias angle comes from? Like I say, what's wrong with making the Allies bring a Spy along in their naval assault, that would actually give them other things to do, too.

 

 

but maybe adding air to Coastal Influence

I thought you couldn't have land, sea and air altogether due to some limitation?

Edited May 26, 2016 by JigglyJie

[Pushwall]

How so? Ever since the coil got knocked down to flame towers (now 1 )the Allies are attacking more often. You even changed it so the Soviet dome faces towards the tunnel. Plus there's also the issue of the AI ore truck struggling to get up the hill outside the base. If the Allied dome-pillbox remains operational, you can't utilise that tunnel. I'm not even sure where this Soviet bias angle comes from? Like I say, what's wrong with making the Allies bring a Spy along in their naval assault, that would actually give them other things to do, too.

 

Idk, Soviets just win a lot more often (total games is 60 allies:96 sovs, 5v5+ games is 16 allies:38 sovs) but I don't get to play enough to have much of an idea of why that is.

 

I thought you couldn't have land, sea and air altogether due to some limitation?

I don't remember there being any limitation here, maybe there was in Beta or something? It's just that it wouldn't have fit any of the Delta naval maps:

• Pacific Threat: Land vehicles could have been here (they were in Beta but there was no aircraft) but I feel they would have made it too easy to V2/artyspam bases due to how close together they are, wouldn't have left much room for a helipad, and would have marginalised infantry because it'd be even harder to sneak around. Bear in mind that in Beta, each base (containing a ref and WF instead of the helipad and refill pad) took up about 75% of each island.
• Coastal Influence: Map borders were not designed with aircraft in mind, as you can see from the above screenshot.
• Under: The higher cliffs would have at least made for a flight ceiling that wasn't TOO absurdly low, but good luck finding room in the already cramped bases to put helipads and refill pads. And the lower tech level would mean naval units are completely defenseless against air. So dests/missubs would have to return... but the intent on this map was to make it so naval superiority was not a requirement, just another attack route. And dests/missubs would totally make it a requirement.
• Hostile Waters: I don't think I need to explain why land vehicles don't work here

[Isaac The Madd]

Hostile Waters: I don't think I need to explain why land vehicles don't work here

What if I want to drive off into the water and drown twenty times.

Land units would only work if LSTs could carry them.

[GeneralCamo]

Even then that wouldn't be fun. Have fun getting 7000 credits worth of mammoth tanks sunk because the pilot can't captain his LST properly.

[ChopBam]

"Expensive loss" has always been a risk of LSTs and transports in general, but players who want to try it may consider that risk worth it.

[Raap]

I'm not sure if we can even fit a War Factory on the Hostile Waters islands... Unless it was underground... But that doesn't work with the current script implementation of "water".

Edited May 26, 2016 by Raap