A Path Beyond APB 3.0.8.8 Changelog

[Pushwall]

[blurb]Naval refinements and traffic dispersements and urban environments, oh my! Get the latest developments today![/blurb] [thumb]thumb_apb.k.png[/thumb]

  Red Alert: A Path Beyond Update     

INFANTRY

• AK/M16/MP5 damage to boat health up by ~7% (0.35 -> 0.375)
• AK/M16/MP5 damage to boat armour down by ~29% (0.175 -> 0.125)
• Remington Slug damage to boat armour down by 50% (0.375 -> 0.1875); DPS now matches primary fire
• M60/PKM damage to boat health up by 12.5% (0.333... -> 0.375)
• M60/PKM damage to boat armour down by 25% (0.333... -> 0.25)
• Redeye/Strela damage to boat armour down by 20% (0.5 -> 0.4)
• Shock Rifle damage to boat health/armour down by 20% (1.25 -> 1)
• Shock Rifle damage to submerged sub health/armour up by 20% (1.25 -> 1.5)
• Flamethrower damage to boat armour down by 20% (0.625 -> 0.5)
• Basically the gist of all this is these guys will be worse at fending off boats by themselves (except LSTs), but with the assistance of a gunboat/sub/close-quarters LAW breaking the armour for them, this disadvantage fades, especially with the captain and naval artillery. However this does mean all these units have a longer total time-to-kill against boats (except the Destroyer/Missile Sub whose overall anti-boat power remains "unchanged"). This probably won't affect Hostile Waters in its current "rocket men on the bergs every day" phase, but should encourage more of a naval focus on the other naval maps maybe?
• Clearing Charge cover penetration down to 50% (was 100%); should be a liiittle less OP against clustered groups of hedgehogs now.

VEHICLES

• Gunboat max turret tilt up from 8.75 to 22.5 degrees; it's no longer a TOTAL sitting duck against Hinds but it still has its fair share of blind spots.
• Destroyer health down from 500 to 450.
• Missile Sub health up from 200 to 225.
• Destroyer reload time down from 3 to 2.75 seconds (DPS up by 6.66...%)
• Destroyer/Missile Sub projectile velocity up from 100 to 200m/s; should be much better at shore bombardments and hitting aircraft.
• Destroyer/Missile Sub damage to boat health up by 20% (0.375 -> 0.45)
• Destroyer/Missile Sub damage to boat armour down by 10% (0.25 -> 0.225)
• AP Mine damage radius down from 10 to 8.
• AP Mine damage up from 300 to 600. Should cleanly kill Tanyas/engineers now.
• Longbow damage to aircraft down by 10% (1 -> 0.9); Hinds/Nooks now a 7-shot kill unassisted.
• Longbow damage to buildings (except base defenses) down by 12.5% (0.2 -> 0.175).

BUILDINGS

• War Factory construction time has been sped up to allow vehicles more time to automatically drive off the construction zone. You should no longer accidentally buy over anything like a V2/OT unless there's a huge pileup already. This should help the bots on RA_CamosCanyon_Bots too.

AESTHETICS

• All infantry worldboxes are slightly larger and properly centered, which should help with the first-person camera clipping issues at certain facings (it's not completely gone at the sides though...)
• Helmeted infantry (i.e. everything except Technician, Sniper, Tanya, Volkov, Starshina, Kapitan and Thief) now have a helmet hitbox. Since this merely displaces the upper portion of the head hitbox instead of extending upwards to cover the true height of the helmet, and has the same damage multiplier as the head, it doesn't affect gameplay at all - all it does right now is produce metal impact effects. It could easily be changed to have a purpose beyond aesthetics in future if there's a call for it, but I doubt that'll happen.

MAPS

• Some jukeboxes have been altered:
  • Fissure: Eaten Alive replaced with Militant Force
  • Ridge War: Floating replaced with Snake
  • Stormy Valley: Techno Babble removed

RA_Metro is back!

Here's what's up compared to its Gamma iteration:

• Tech Level set to 3. No Mammothspam this time around!
• Jukebox now features Floating (initial track), Eaten Alive, Fire & Ice and Techno Babble. (Hence most of these being kicked off of other maps' jukeboxes.)
• The streets are now much more heavily lit.
• Texture overhaul; most of the old textures are replaced with ones used by current maps.
• Prop overhaul; the old props are replaced by current ones, and bases and alleyways are full of clutter.
• Removed base defenses.
• Silos are now spread out, one being on the north side of each base and the other at the south.
• The north Soviet silo's computer is inaccessible and thus cannot be thieved from.
• Destructible hedgehogs temporarily block off one of each base's attack routes and funnel traffic at another one.
• Added an underpass connecting both Barracks to the south side of the map.
• Added a cargo truck parked somewhere, just because.
• Added ambient sounds for the river, bushes and utility pole transformers.
• Kerbs now have invisible collision ramps to smooth out unit movement, making it harder to flip your rangers and ensuring your infantry don't "fall" randomly and lose accuracy when they shouldn't.
• Added VIS culling.

RA_Complex

• Fixed missing Supply Truck spawners.
• Reduced snowfall.

RA_PacificThreat

• Allies now have a Pillbox at the front of their base.
• Fixed some VIS errors pertaining to the ruins west of the Allied base.

[OrangeP47]

Metro!

Too bad I'm too busy this weekend to play, can't wait to get on that for a go.

[Invader_Zim]

Looking forward to playing

 

[Raap]

Good to see Metro again, even though it doesn't quite fit the time era - but all things considered, this is a fictional universe and not a historical one, which means you got some creative freedom.

 

[Pushwall]

29 minutes ago, Raap said:

Good to see Metro again, even though it doesn't quite fit the time era - but all things considered, this is a fictional universe and not a historical one, which means you got some creative freedom.

It shouldn't be quite as unfitting with the texture overhaul.

[SarahNautili]

Eh, I figure in a universe set in the 1950's that has 1990's Apache Longbows and M1 Abrams variants fighting tanks derived from the 1970's T-80U escorting a portable version of the 1940's V2 rocket.... historical accuracy goes out the window

 

Hell I think one of the only units in the game that actually fits the timeline is the Light Tank, if it's a Walker Bulldog  

Edited April 22, 2017 by SarahNautili

[Einstein]

Its all my fault for breaking the timeline with my time machine that also doesn't fit the time period

[OrangeP47]

Sounds like we all need to revisit the Timeline thread, that's one of my favorites

(Not to enforce a view on anyone, just the opposite, because it's a fun thread to have a discussion in)

Edited April 22, 2017 by OrangeP47

[delta]

14 hours ago, SarahNautili said:

Eh, I figure in a universe set in the 1950's that has 1990's Apache Longbows and M1 Abrams variants fighting tanks derived from the 1970's T-80U escorting a portable version of the 1940's V2 rocket.... historical accuracy goes out the window

Isn't the V2 really just one of the Scud variants and not the actual German V2 rocket from WWII? So that still leaves us with mostly 70's and 80's stuff.

Edited April 22, 2017 by delta

[neko soldier]

27 minutes ago, delta said:

Isn't the V2 really just one of the Scud variants and not the actual German V2 rocket from WWII? So that still leaves us with mostly 70's and 80's stuff.

Scuds are bigger, but they are the real life 9K52 Luna-M/Frog-7, a precursor to the Scud. 60's tech by the way.

[Einstein]

Before e-brakes existed.

[SirJustin90]

On 4/21/2017 at 10:26 PM, Pushwall said:

[blurb]Naval refinements and traffic dispersements and urban environments, oh my! Get the latest developments today![/blurb] [thumb]thumb_apb.k.png[/thumb]

BUILDINGS

• War Factory construction time has been sped up to allow vehicles more time to automatically drive off the construction zone. You should no longer accidentally buy over anything like a V2/OT unless there's a huge pileup already. This should help the bots on RA_CamosCanyon_Bots too.

Yes, this will be more help for players too, as they often build so much that you need to be at the War Factory, and even do an obstacle course to get around them at times.

On 4/21/2017 at 10:26 PM, Pushwall said:

• Helmeted infantry (i.e. everything except Technician, Sniper, Tanya, Volkov, Starshina, Kapitan and Thief) now have a helmet hitbox. Since this merely displaces the upper portion of the head hitbox instead of extending upwards to cover the true height of the helmet, and has the same damage multiplier as the head, it doesn't affect gameplay at all - all it does right now is produce metal impact effects. It could easily be changed to have a purpose beyond aesthetics in future if there's a call for it, but I doubt that'll happen.

I wonder if anyone will call for helmets to actually decrease damage at last? I mean it would make sense, but people will probably whine for their HS multiplier. 

On 4/21/2017 at 10:26 PM, Pushwall said:

RA_Metro is back!

 

Good to see another one back. Always loved coming at the enemies from the south while the north was busy.

[des1206]

19 minutes ago, SirJustin90 said:

I wonder if anyone will call for helmets to actually decrease damage at last? I mean it would make sense, but people will probably whine for their HS multiplier. 

 

Actually don't helmets only protect against shrapnel and not direct bullet shots?

[Pushwall]

1 hour ago, SirJustin90 said:

I wonder if anyone will call for helmets to actually decrease damage at last? I mean it would make sense, but people will probably whine for their HS multiplier. 

It would probably work out in some regards.

The only real difference this makes between the teams is that Sergeants/Captains are helmeted but the Soviet equivalents just wear hats, so it'd be another indirect buff to the Allied infantry lines who are generally considered worse in spite of typically better overall stats (for example, the M60 and LAW having noticeably more DPS than the PKM and RPG) because of AP mines and Soviet infantry being more suited to building raids (flamethrower splash, starshina secondary, and Volkov basically being both).

Technicians shouldn't really be getting into fights anyway and sniper vs sniper battles won't be impacted.

The commandos are an odd one. Volkov is cybernetically augmented and his whole head is clearly metal so he might as well just have a lower headshot multiplier overall to compensate for not having a helmet, and Tanya... an idea I've been playing with for her is giving her 0 armour (because seriously, look at her, that is not armour) but enough extra health to compensate for that against general weapons. But due to the quirks of armour resistance this means Volkov's shotgun, grenadiers and engineers suddenly become more capable of countering her while flamethrowers and kapitans become worse. Tank splash also becomes better against her but she shouldn't be running around in the open anyways.

The real issue is thieves who are already getting the short stick in a lot of ways, their lack of a helmet would just nerf them harder. So they might have to get more health to compensate but then that just feels weird.

A feature I'd really like if we decide to make helmets helpful, but would probably be really hard to pull off, is tying the existence of the helmet hitbox to the armour bar. So if your armour is depleted your helmet will no longer protect you.

But again I don't really want to shake up balance in this area as it hasn't really been called for.  I just added this feature because I was inspired by games like Goldeneye 64 (in which you can shoot peoples' helmets clean off but they also completely block the shot in doing so) and CS:GO (shooting people in the helmet gives a REALLY satisfying dink, which is even more satisfying if you're using a weapon that one-shots people through helmets anyway) and it means the framework is there in case we decide to do anything with it in future.

42 minutes ago, des1206 said:

Actually don't helmets only protect against shrapnel and not direct bullet shots?

Notice how all of the unarmoured infantry have no helmet and thus get exploded really easily.  

[delta]

I think if we want to start getting nitpicky about helmets, maybe we should ask why having some metal bits grafted onto your body prevents you from being crushed by a 60-ton tank.

[Pushwall]

Made a few changes to Metro since it seems I vastly overestimated the Soviets' ability to rush B cyka blyat spam AP mines and splash2win.

• Added Soviet rangers.
• Allied southern Ore Silo is now in a MUCH more exposed position: just behind their wrecked Light Tank.
• Team-locked doors in tunnels are moved back to the Barracks itself, where they can be shot to damage it.
• Added a "one-way" exit from the Allied War Factory basement, which drops into the dirt tunnel from above.
• Dirt tunnels are wider at certain points.
• Dirt tunnels are lit better.
• Fixed a VIS error in the Soviet barracks.

[des1206]

On the ToTheCore map, there is a floating tree North side of Allied base right at the base of the cliff.

[OrangeP47]

8 hours ago, Pushwall said:

Made a few changes to Metro since it seems I vastly overestimated the Soviets' ability to rush B cyka blyat spam AP mines and splash2win.

• Added Soviet rangers.
• Allied southern Ore Silo is now in a MUCH more exposed position: just behind their wrecked Light Tank.
• Team-locked doors in tunnels are moved back to the Barracks itself, where they can be shot to damage it.
• Added a "one-way" exit from the Allied War Factory basement, which drops into the dirt tunnel from above.
• Dirt tunnels are wider at certain points.
• Dirt tunnels are lit better.
• Fixed a VIS error in the Soviet barracks.

While I overall think it's probably a good change, it almost might be a case of people needed to 'get used' to Metro again. People might get with the program on mines in a week or two (or other tactics).

[thedisclaimitory]

 I loved metro but wish there were a subway train nd when the base is destroyed all units must die and live once after  all structures are down and you go to a complete other part of the map that would be fun and you have a driver  you could have a small party lol

[Ice]

Although the style of the city was/is kinda out of place, I'm glad to see Metro is back. Urban combat is something I've sorely missed in APB and this is a major improvement over the old version. I do miss the alley dog's barking though. 

I did notice one small issue; The wooden pole in the Allied base is floating.

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Ice

[Raap]

3 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

 I loved metro but wish there were a subway train nd when the base is destroyed all units must die and live once after  all structures are down and you go to a complete other part of the map that would be fun and you have a driver  you could have a small party lol

The upcoming Hostile Waters revamp will feature moving terrain, if this turns out good then who knows what trains might crash into maps...

1 hour ago, Ice said:

Although the style of the city was/is kinda out of place, I'm glad to see Metro is back. Urban combat is something I've sorely missed in APB and this is a major improvement over the old version. I do miss the alley dog's barking though. 

I did notice one small issue; The wooden pole in the Allied base is floating.

 

On walls, I agree. However, creating texture diversity for man-made objects that cover a lot of screen space takes a lot of work, just take a look at the castle walls in Siege, there is a crapton of different textures designed for it, all in an effort to make it appear less tiled.

[OrangeP47]

20 minutes ago, Raap said:

The upcoming Hostile Waters revamp will feature moving terrain, if this turns out good then who knows what trains might crash into maps...

*faints*

[Pushwall]

6 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

 I loved metro but wish there were a subway train nd when the base is destroyed all units must die and live once after  all structures are down and you go to a complete other part of the map that would be fun and you have a driver  you could have a small party lol

You're looking for the wrong game.

Just pretend there's a train! That's why I added the entrance to the metro station. Thing is, the city is a war zone and the map takes place past curfew time:

The rough translated gist of this, is that it's an order that states that nobody should be outdoors between 22:00 and 08:00, and ignoring this will be punished. So the trains shouldn't be running at this time anyway!

And besides, that would add extra development time for not much gain. It takes long enough to revive each of these maps as it is. All the time we could spend putting in nice touches like actual trains means we're not spending that time getting the next map ready, fixing actual problems with existing maps or the game as a whole or even helping other W3D games' development teams with problems that they have!

[Raap]

8 hours ago, Pushwall said:

You're looking for the wrong game.

Just pretend there's a train! That's why I added the entrance to the metro station. Thing is, the city is a war zone and the map takes place past curfew time:

The rough translated gist of this, is that it's an order that states that nobody should be outdoors between 22:00 and 08:00, and ignoring this will be punished. So the trains shouldn't be running at this time anyway!

And besides, that would add extra development time for not much gain. It takes long enough to revive each of these maps as it is. All the time we could spend putting in nice touches like actual trains means we're not spending that time getting the next map ready, fixing actual problems with existing maps or the game as a whole or even helping other W3D games' development teams with problems that they have!

I still don't know who made that poster back during Beta/Gamma. To my knowledge I was the only Dutch person to ever be on the BHP team at that point.

The problem is, the city architecture does not resemble anything from The Netherlands.

[ganein14]

1 hour ago, Raap said:

I still don't know who made that poster back during Beta/Gamma. To my knowledge I was the only Dutch person to ever be on the BHP team at that point.

The problem is, the city architecture does not resemble anything from The Netherlands.

Maybe it's a different dutch speaking country?

[Ice]

19 hours ago, Raap said:

The upcoming Hostile Waters revamp will feature moving terrain, if this turns out good then who knows what trains might crash into maps...

On walls, I agree. However, creating texture diversity for man-made objects that cover a lot of screen space takes a lot of work, just take a look at the castle walls in Siege, there is a crapton of different textures designed for it, all in an effort to make it appear less tiled.

Was this meant as a reply to my post? (I was quoted in it)  I wasn't talking about texture tiling, so I'm a bit confused lol.

Anyway, floating icebergs (assuming that's what you meant by 'moving terrain') could be an amazing feature if it works out well, so I'm looking forward to seeing that.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Ice

[Raap]

2 hours ago, Ice said:

Was this meant as a reply to my post? (I was quoted in it)  I wasn't talking about texture tiling, so I'm a bit confused lol.

Anyway, floating icebergs (assuming that's what you meant by 'moving terrain') could be an amazing feature if it works out well, so I'm looking forward to seeing that.

Nah, i just miss-read your post of "city was/is out of place" to "city walls is out of place", because the latter makes sense; They are a bit out of place.

The moving terrain isn't icebergs btw. Moving terrain doesn't work with vehicles, so it's isolated for infantry only. Not saying more.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Raap

[SirJustin90]

On 4/23/2017 at 11:37 PM, des1206 said:

Actually don't helmets only protect against shrapnel and not direct bullet shots?

That is their main role, however it depends on the helmet. Many are made to stop bullets, especially 9mm. However, getting up to sniper caliber and higher is a likely miss.

WW2 era helmets did mostly 9mm and .45 at best most commonly. Newer helmets, past the 80s and current can stop even 7.62. However ones sporting such lofty protection  from 5.56 and 7.62 are usually specialized for that task.

 

P.S. I forgot to mention those are automatic rifle rounds, not full kick sniper rounds, as they tend to have much more fill and penetration.

Edited April 26, 2017 by SirJustin90

[SirJustin90]

On 4/24/2017 at 5:18 AM, delta said:

I think if we want to start getting nitpicky about helmets, maybe we should ask why having some metal bits grafted onto your body prevents you from being crushed by a 60-ton tank.

That's true, but then if we wanted to get picky, we'd have no headshot bonuses at all, if we were targeting the RTS itself.

[Ice]

3 hours ago, SirJustin90 said:

That is their main role, however it depends on the helmet. Many are made to stop bullets, especially 9mm. However, getting up to sniper caliber and higher is a likely miss.

WW2 era helmets did mostly 9mm and .45 at best most commonly. Newer helmets, past the 80s and current can stop even 7.62. However ones sporting such lofty protection  from 5.56 and 7.62 are usually specialized for that task.

P.S. I forgot to mention those are automatic rifle rounds, not full kick sniper rounds, as they tend to have much more fill and penetration.

Indeed, steel helmets generally only protect against light shrapnel and sometimes pistol rounds, although glancing blows from rifle rounds can potentially be deflected at the right angle. Still, doesn't really justify an in-game mechanic around helmets (especially since that would put a lot of Soviet infantry at a disadvantage compared to their Allied counterparts, as well as complicate balance). Heck, even modern Kevlar helmets aren't guaranteed protection and it still largely seems to be a matter of luck; Some have stopped multiple direct hits from 7.62x39mm rounds while others were penetrated by a single stray bullet. There are a lot of factors that affect it.

 

3 hours ago, SirJustin90 said:

That's true, but then if we wanted to get picky, we'd have no headshot bonuses at all, if we were targeting the RTS itself.

On 4/24/2017 at 4:18 AM, delta said:

I think if we want to start getting nitpicky about helmets, maybe we should ask why having some metal bits grafted onto your body prevents you from being crushed by a 60-ton tank.

It's all in knowing how to separate the literal from the representative.  Personally I've always chalked up the Shocky and Volkov's uncrushability to anti-tank training and simply having the knowledge/reflexes to avoid being run over. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Ice