Games [Danubian Federation Victory] Ausgleich '37

[FRAYDO]

At the very least, we'll get a nationality and name. Orange seemed particularly sure his nationality may boost the Empire or otherwise.

On 7/22/2018 at 5:00 PM, OrangeP47 said:

I bet, regardless of what reform category, there's a way to boost certain countries within the Empire, and then our Nationality comes into play.

 

[Category 5 Hurricane]

1 hour ago, Retaliation said:

I'm going to endorse this day 1 innocent investigation, but I'm much more uncertain after looking at everyone's starting status in July Crisis mafia. There were 2 innocent players who had the potential to kill people.

##investigate OrangeP47

I know he said he'd be innocent and there is little reason to think he would appear otherwise, but the way you worded that makes me think you are could be more sure of that result than you should be.

[Retaliation]

Could you rephrase that? I think you're asking why I'm so sure Orange is innocent, but I'm not sure. If that is what you're asking, it's because I can't figure out why you would lie about that and offer yourself up for investigation. Being investigated while suspicious isn't as bad as being lynched, but losing potential items and being night roleblocked is pretty bad (probably lose out on votes as well).

[Category 5 Hurricane]

15 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

I've not played the HOI4 version, but DH is pretty detailed.  It really depends on what path you picked though.  In my game, for example, I picked centralization as Austria, Hungary just said no, so I relented and gave them Bosnia in their sphere to keep them happy and not revolting.  Then we had events where we directly annexed our sphere, which went much better.  I annexed Bohemia, they annexed Croatia and Bosnia.  Somehow Galacia got annexed by Poland due to a bug....  But yeah, it's multi-tiered and detailed.

I'd only ever watched Let's Plays of KR in HoI4 before, though I downloaded KR for Darkest Hour and started a Switzerland game. It seems like a lot of the events in KR were redone as national focuses for HoI4. I'm not sure if HoI4 has more events, but a lot of what I was seeing was familiar, and the layout of the map seemed very close. Though I've seen the Spanish Civil War being fought by four factions in HoI4, and I think the wiki says that Italy starts in four or five pieces in HoI4 as well? The Switzerland/France events were pretty straight forward. It looked like the choices were either let Geneva leave or War with the Internationale. I avoided war this time, but next time I'll see what happens if I go hardline on it. I'm not sure what's going on in Austria. I saw an event about creating a federation and Hungary seemed to agree some stuff changed in the Yugoslavia area, but I thought that was supposed to lead to the Danubian Federation? Austria and Hungary are still separate and it's 1940 now and everybody else is already at war while Austria & Friends are just sitting there.

One thing I never realized watching the Let's Plays was how many events were going on and how crazy this world is. I can't keep up with all the chaos.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

4 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

Could you rephrase that? I think you're asking why I'm so sure Orange is innocent, but I'm not sure. If that is what you're asking, it's because I can't figure out why you would lie about that and offer yourself up for investigation. Being investigated while suspicious isn't as bad as being lynched, but losing potential items and being night roleblocked is pretty bad (probably lose out on votes as well).

Yeah, I rewrote some of what I was going to say and mucked it up in the process. I'm saying that the wording of "I'm going to endorse this day 1 innocent investigation" just hit me as a little bit off. I know that there isn't much reason to think that OrangeP47 would be anything other than innocent because of all the things you just said, but your statement feels like you might have more certainty than you should. You seem to be fully trusting of what the result will be even though you also point out that we have to be careful of clearing him based on the result.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

When I play any Paradox game, I usually first improve the industry base before I do anything else (I got Switzerland to 3500IC in the "normal" WW2 game that I posted the map of earlier), though there is likely no such thing as a bad reform category, just bad choices in those categories. I'm not sure I'm going to care which one goes through. At least not right now.

[Retaliation]

I don't know if trust is the best word. It's more I don't really care if Orange is lying and ends up spending a night in the slammer.

When I read snipe's initial reaction to Orange's suggestion that we investigate him 

11 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

I don't think we could call you "cleared" after an investigation. I don't know everything about how these types of games work, but my first instinct with having innocent, suspicious, and hostile isn't a direct correlation with town, third party, and mafia. Rather, it's a state affected by your alignment and your actions. In other words, I would think it's possible for you to be a "good guy" and suspicious or a "bad guy" and innocent. You can have bad intentions but not have done anything yet.

my initial thoughts were about how well our night 1 investigate town went. So I went back and looked at everyone's starting status and found out that chaos actually started innocent (I assumed suspicious). Orange has already had experience being a bad guy in these crisis games, so I'm more cautious of it being a trap.

[Nodlied]

7 hours ago, Retaliation said:

##investigate OrangeP47

Counted.

By the way, ealy hammers are not a thing in this game.

 

 

[OrangeP47]

10 hours ago, Retaliation said:

I'm going to endorse this day 1 innocent investigation, but I'm much more uncertain after looking at everyone's starting status in July Crisis mafia. There were 2 innocent players who had the potential to kill people.

##investigate OrangeP47

Whoa buddy, a lot of quotes to catch up on over night.  First off, could you elaborate a bit more about the bolded part.  I assume there's even more to say compared to a little elaboration you did later.  I'll admit, with all the mafia we play around here, my memory of *all* the details isn't the best.

9 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

At the very least, we'll get a nationality and name. Orange seemed particularly sure his nationality may boost the Empire or otherwise.

 

That's not what I meant, though that is the case too.  I was more thinking if nationalities like Croatians, Bohemians, etc get boosted too much, they might have the power to force independence.

8 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I'd only ever watched Let's Plays of KR in HoI4 before, though I downloaded KR for Darkest Hour and started a Switzerland game. It seems like a lot of the events in KR were redone as national focuses for HoI4. I'm not sure if HoI4 has more events, but a lot of what I was seeing was familiar, and the layout of the map seemed very close. Though I've seen the Spanish Civil War being fought by four factions in HoI4, and I think the wiki says that Italy starts in four or five pieces in HoI4 as well? The Switzerland/France events were pretty straight forward. It looked like the choices were either let Geneva leave or War with the Internationale. I avoided war this time, but next time I'll see what happens if I go hardline on it. I'm not sure what's going on in Austria. I saw an event about creating a federation and Hungary seemed to agree some stuff changed in the Yugoslavia area, but I thought that was supposed to lead to the Danubian Federation? Austria and Hungary are still separate and it's 1940 now and everybody else is already at war while Austria & Friends are just sitting there.

One thing I never realized watching the Let's Plays was how many events were going on and how crazy this world is. I can't keep up with all the chaos.

Yeah, one thing I am aware of is how HOI4 is fond of those national focuses.  In HOI2/DR, the different factions are all independent, but "puppets" of one another.  Hungary is a puppet of Austria, as are most of the others, but Croatia is a puppet of Hungary (double puppet).  That's the starting config at least, it can get changed up a lot.  If full federalization happens, they all unite into a single actual entity, named the Danubian Federation, I believe.  There are events for Austria-Hungary to join WWII (on the German side), but with all the different combos sometimes the events are hit or miss.  In my recent playthrough I had to join manually, and then I had to manually force Hungary to join me because they didn't automatically when I did (which was kind of lame).

 

7 hours ago, Retaliation said:

I don't know if trust is the best word. It's more I don't really care if Orange is lying and ends up spending a night in the slammer.

When I read snipe's initial reaction to Orange's suggestion that we investigate him 

my initial thoughts were about how well our night 1 investigate town went. So I went back and looked at everyone's starting status and found out that chaos actually started innocent (I assumed suspicious). Orange has already had experience being a bad guy in these crisis games, so I'm more cautious of it being a trap.

I will say, from my experience as a bad guy last game, one of the major takeaways I had was get investigated early, even if suspicious, because it's better than being hostile and investigated.  So yeah, normally I'd say be wary of anyone pushing to get investigated too soon.  However, sometimes the person really is just innocent and wants to be town core, like I am now.

[TheIrishman]

I don't have much time since I work very soon, but normally my go to for the vault would be cat5, but out of curiousity since I've never been, I'd like to volunteer to enter the vault.

##nominate theirishman

[OrangeP47]

Unless there's something already in the vault, there's not going to be anything for anyone to play with because I'm innocent.  That's why it's safe to ignore nominate today.

[Killing_You]

Welp, mostly caught up now. Still kind of lost. As such I don't necessarily want to make a rash decision and discover the consequences later. So, I'm going to think it over, and later I'll vote for what reform seems like a better idea.

[Shade939]

1 hour ago, OrangeP47 said:

Unless there's something already in the vault, there's not going to be anything for anyone to play with because I'm innocent.  That's why it's safe to ignore nominate today.

There's also the fact that you need to be nominated in order to access the evidence vault, but I don't think anyone's actually done anything that would show up in that anyways?

[Sunflower]

I'm kinda wary of Orange just because he's so smart in these historical settings and he seems to want military reforms really badly like it's a hot fudge sundae with whipped cream and a cherry on top. I'm going to vote military because I think our grand empire could do with a bit more... oomph, but I just wanted to say I'm worried for the record. :P

##reform military

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Shade939 said:

There's also the fact that you need to be nominated in order to access the evidence vault, but I don't think anyone's actually done anything that would show up in that anyways?

If you're suspicious or hostile your item (if you have one) gets confiscated.  Since I'm innocent that won't want happen is what I'm saying.  Whoever gets nominated D1 (our current tie between FRAYDO and Irish) will have nothing to play with, unless there's something already in there.

[Shade939]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

If you're suspicious or hostile your item (if you have one) gets confiscated.  Since I'm innocent that won't want happen is what I'm saying.  Whoever gets nominated D1 (our current tie between FRAYDO and Irish) will have nothing to play with, unless there's something already in there.

Or they posses something they want to place in there.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Or they posses something they want to place in there.

Well true, I suppose. Off hand I'm not really seeing any scenarios where that plays out, but I suppose it's possible.

[Shade939]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Well true, I suppose. Off hand I'm not really seeing any scenarios where that plays out, but I suppose it's possible.

I'd assume most likely something along the lines of creating a political scandal, or false evidence changing a players status from innocent to suspicious, or in the worst case scenario they might booby trap the vault.

[Nodlied]

2 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

##nominate theirishman

Counted

 

1 hour ago, Sunflower said:

##reform military

Counted

 

Day ends in ~4 hours!

[Retaliation]

4 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

Whoa buddy, a lot of quotes to catch up on over night.  First off, could you elaborate a bit more about the bolded part.  I assume there's even more to say compared to a little elaboration you did later.  I'll admit, with all the mafia we play around here, my memory of *all* the details isn't the best.

I will say, from my experience as a bad guy last game, one of the major takeaways I had was get investigated early, even if suspicious, because it's better than being hostile and investigated.  So yeah, normally I'd say be wary of anyone pushing to get investigated too soon.  However, sometimes the person really is just innocent and wants to be town core, like I am now.

Chaos (scum tracker) and KY (grenade) both started as innocent apparently. FRAYDO could come up as innocent (which he did), but didn't kill. So we've already had a game where bad guys start out as innocent.

I'd probably be less cautious of clearing you if you were not the one to suggest it.

[OrangeP47]

Was CK innocent?  I swore he was suspicious. Regardless, I do see your point regarding KY, though KY had a rather... eclectic role....

[Retaliation]

According to the end game docs he started out that way.

[OrangeP47]

Huh. Going back and rereading the scum doc from Crisis I, I guess I actually misinterpreted what CK was saying all that time ago.

[Retaliation]

The economy you fools!

##reform Economy

[Killing_You]

I'm leaning that way as well, honestly. I'm still not quite sure what does what, but if I were to guess, an economic reform might have the least potential to go horribly wrong. Especially since we're keeping the peace and whatnot.

##reform economy

[Shade939]

Does this mean we can all blame KY if things go horribly wrong now?

[OrangeP47]

As we draw closer to EoD, I'll reiterate again:  I'm not exactly opposed to doing economic reform, I just want a reform that raises stability.  I think we can all agree that's a worthy goal.  I'll probably spend one of my two night posts elaborating on what I think will raise stability, once our options are revealed.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Does this mean we can all blame KY if things go horribly wrong now?

Let's be real, you'll probably get the blame no matter what happens.  Unless something good happens, then we'll find another scape goat

[Retaliation]

You're more likely to find stability boosts under economic and political reforms than military imo.

[OrangeP47]

3 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

You're more likely to find stability boosts under economic and political reforms than military imo.

The way I see it, which to be fair I have no basis for, but it just makes sense to me:

Political - Actual Pluralism vs Status Quo (vs Independence)

Economic - The power of player abilities

Military - Stability

It may be wrong, but that's the framework I'm operating my assumptions under.