A Path Beyond APB: Dread Plateau

[Raap]

Hey guys, I figured that it is time for a new thread since this is no longer an "uncategorized" project!

This is an upcoming Red Alert: A Path Beyond core gameplay level, and for the first time, this is a mission set on US soil. But as I do not wish to spoil everything in advance, I will keep the remaining information such as the background plot close to myself until release... 

But here is what I CAN share!

• The level features a large number of 4096x4096 diffuse textures, created from real photography and edited by myself. All photography was paid for, as I could not have taken them myself given that I live in Europe!
• The level features a lot of experimental graphical effects, the bulk of which could not have been rendered in older versions of the W3D engine and game tools.
• The level geometry uses some of the most complex meshes that W3D can presently support.
• Everything you see is still a work in progress!

Here is a video demonstrating some of the environmental effects, such as periodic overhead dust storms, persistent distant dust storms, full screen colour filtering, full screen dust particle animations, and some decrepit old windmill, because reasons!

[NOTE: Unfortunately, YouTube murders the image clarity a lot, so the smaller details are hard to spot, but in-game these will be much more visible!]

 

As always, let me know what you think, if you have suggestions, or whatever. Post words!

[NodGuy]

Amazing. I can't wait to see more.

[Coolrock]

Really like the look and feel of it. Can't wait to see it finished!

[Pushwall]

Just remember that the map was definitely not made by the OP so please don't go into epileptic !skip fits when it arrives  

[Raap]

1 minute ago, Pushwall said:

Just remember that the map was definitely not made by the OP so please don't go into epileptic !skip fits when it arrives  

Maybe bold and italics wasn't enough?!?

Okay lads, HANG ON!

 

CORE GAMEPLAY

[Pushwall]

In all seriousness I can't help but think of Fallout: New Vegas. @FRAYDO what do you think

[FRAYDO]

1 minute ago, Pushwall said:

In all seriousness I can't help but think of Fallout: New Vegas. @FRAYDO what do you think

If this song ain't in this map's jukebox I will be offended.

[Raap]

I've played Fallout 4, not any of the other games.

As to where I did get my inspiration, from my cancelled Unreal project, which was going to be a fantasy team combat game (magic, melee, archery combat). I got relatively far into a prototype before I had to can it due to financial limitations to keep pushing it. A portion of the art I painstakingly updated for W3D usage, and all texture work is hand-drawn by myself (both terrain and props).

Before I decided on making this an APB level, I was still tossing a coin between doing so, or creating a new W3D project using similar designs as my Unreal project. Unfortunately I ran into a programming resource bottleneck and was unable to find someone to fill that void.

[KevinLancaster]

25 minutes ago, FRAYDO said:

If this song ain't in this map's jukebox I will be offended.

This map calls for a Zorro thief someday.

[Einstein]

@Raap

Been wondering what you're up to! Looks like a promising map!

When it comes time to test drive it, you know where to find me!

[Silverlight]

3 hours ago, NodGuy said:

Amazing. I can't wait to see more.

x2

[moonsense715]

9 hours ago, Raap said:

Before I decided on making this an APB level, I was still tossing a coin between doing so, or creating a new W3D project using similar designs as my Unreal project. Unfortunately I ran into a programming resource bottleneck and was unable to find someone to fill that void.

Did you need someone to completely change the gameplay and goals or what exactly were you looking for in programming for the game?

On another note, it is pretty hard to believe that the video is in this engine. Nice job.

[Raap]

3 hours ago, moonsense715 said:

Did you need someone to completely change the gameplay and goals or what exactly were you looking for in programming for the game?

On another note, it is pretty hard to believe that the video is in this engine. Nice job.

Based on my conversations with Jon and Romanov, I essentially needed a rewrite of W3D's inventory system to be able to include functions such as continuing reload times after swapping the 'active weapon'. Essentially I needed it to function as a skill/ability hotbar rather than purely a weapon selection menu. This was the main challenge and I could not find anyone to meet it (for free).

The engine by the way has no real problems rendering any of this. The real hard points come from per-object triangle limitations which behaves extremely inconsistently, for example I can have very massive objects export and render without problems, but when you try and mesh merge a bunch of rocks, both the export function begins to stall, as well as W3D just crashing upon attempting to render said object.

But what takes the absolute crown in terms of trouble creating this, is 3DS Max 8. Gigantic export times, incredibly poor viewport performance, and with each Windows 10 update something new crashes (like loading it up gives me a specific dll file error but it still works). We might have a nicer editor now but the dependency on Max 8 is a bottleneck... Unfortunately newer 3DS versions function via monthly payments (~350 euros a month per individual licence!), and we also do not have a modern W3D plugin... And I tried Blender, but my God that program is a mess, nothing functions intuitively in it.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Raap

[ChAoS]

I've found that the latest windows 10 update has fixed all the issues I've had with 3DS Max 8.

 

Of course I haven't done enough to see if there are any new issues.

[ChopBam]

56 minutes ago, ChAoS said:

I've found that the latest windows 10 update has fixed all the issues I've had with 3DS Max 8.

 

Of course I haven't done enough to see if there are any new issues.

These issues were fixed for a while for me, but I seem to have drop-down freezing again. Also the viewport performance and export times are surely a legitimate problem on such high fidelity assets.

[Raap]

I tried everything, the persistent right-click drop down 'ghosting' came back as well, and other annoying issues such as interfering with GIMP UI functionality, meaning I can never do texture work with 3DS open.

If I had a properly functioning 3D development environment then I assure you that I'd gain a productivity boost of immeasurable magnitude.

As it stands, all 3DS Max does for this project is ensure that it will take a very long time before I can complete it. It is frustrating to work like this.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Raap

[Raap]

Oh man I'm getting a lot of "I've seen this before" type comments! From people I know as well as random folks. I cannot quite gather what it is that makes people see something they recognize in this very simple scene. If anyone here has any ideas on what I might have accidentally re-created, let me know! It's a puzzle to me. 

In other news, I'm debating (with myself, obviously) if I should include a War Factory or not. The map can easily handle it in terms of space, and there is no shortage of vehicle play space around the middle, but I have a problem I am torn on; Due to the object density on this map, over network play, larger vehicles like tanks may suffer severely from rubber banding on all the plants, rocks, or other objects. I'm having playability concerns essentially, but something I will not be doing is reducing level detail to accommodate for this - pushing W3D graphically is my driving force here.

Air units would be no problem, but Hinds and/or Yaks on an infantry map is begging for trouble since the Allies got no equivalent units (not unless Longbow missiles start doing significant damage to infantry).

As for other buildings, nothing is off the table (edit: except naval buildings...). In fact a Missile Silo is very likely, although it might be slightly altered in terms of charge and flare timers.

Also extremely likely: Asymmetric building distribution.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Raap

[OrangeP47]

Missile silo on an infantry only map sounds interesting.

[Raap]

I'll have to see how things go.

All of the base and APB game logic will be taken on last. I still got a lot of work left to do and progress is slow, so I'll be honest to say this may take a while.

I sort of expected to be done sooner but the work pace is so frustrating in 3DS that I simply have to do it in periodic sessions, so I don't throw my keyboard out of a window. 

I mean I flipped the Naval Repair Bay in a matter of hours (testing and logic time included) because it was a small asset. This thing is like Siege on drugs in comparison.

[Raap]

Small update. I have started converting this for Max 2017, which will make finishing the mesh easier.

Unfortunately, after some debate, myself and Pushwall were unable to get to common consensus on how to proceed with the level in terms of gameplay. Because the level was originally not intended for core gameplay, every decision revolving around implementing it, effectively feels like too much of a compromise in one category or another.

The short version is that the level cannot properly support vehicle play due to the scale as well as object density. An idea was tossed around to separate vehicle and infantry play via lanes but this proved unpopular. 

No solution has been found as of yet that would please a majority of you, the players.

This means that as of now, this project is more or less back to being a technical demonstration, as APB does not require another infantry map like Wasteland.

I may opt to release the level as-is when finished, without official game and patch support.

Alternatively, perhaps someone else is interested in having it, although the art style was intended for APB.