Attention The State of the mods, but also our communities.

[Coolrock]

On 1/4/2019 at 4:21 PM, Dadud said:

your maps is bad. But seriously. private testing was a mid 00's thing to do. its freaking 2019. get with the times. abandon W3D, use the tool Saberhawk is making to export W3D models to modern formats, and work on a new, free to use game engine, with public testing. Unity, Lumberyard, Cryengine, UE4, it doesn't matter. W3D is dead and has been for atleast 15 years. you might have to abandon all C&C ties to do so, but im sure you could rename all the units to be compliant and avoid C&D's

I actually got a UE4 project started up a few months ago, that's being worked on right now. Permission from EA and all that. Most people on that project are people who wanted to move engines a while back, mixed with people who still work on the projects here as well. The people who are still here working on these project have every right to do so. They've had the options to move for years, but feel comfortable here. I know it's frustrating, but that's just what they want to do.

Didn't want to make it public like this, but just know that things are cooking on other engines.

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, Coolrock said:

Your maps is bad.

 

 

 

❤️

[shaitan]

You know what we want OWA; equal footing(we cannot do that part).

We all can go back to ignoring everything, it's mostly worked out(minus some things). Just don't pretend to people that RC & MPF had no legitimate rational reason for blocking it("didn't appreciate the competition that we brought into their space"), when you know full well the cause/effect.

 

 

 

 

[Raap]

On 1/4/2019 at 9:49 PM, LiamGriever said:

(...) There are in my opinion, too many mods. Too much hype for mods that will never see completion or even public beta, like AR and Dune. I feel like W3D is sitting idly, letting people do whatever whenever, with no real direction. I get that its a mod team, but at the same time i want to see some solidarity in the production of these projects. I feel like if every dev jumpped onto one thing and got given a timescale, project requirements, etc, AR could get pushed out in 6 months. Instead, you have so many talented devs doing different things which causes mods to take so long they stagnate and get cancelled.

Understand that there is not "a mod team", W3DHub is a collection of W3D based projects (and quite possibly with more on the way), managed by their respective project leaders. For the creators, this is their hobby, they do this in their spare time for their own entertainment and at their own expenses (none of this is free). They are not here to work on projects they have no connection with, and forcing them to do so will get poor results, as there would be a lot less passion going into the work.

We all would love to see projects like AR release sooner rather than later, but we're limited by what individual people can work on. Take me for example, I am currently trying to find time for an AR level and documenting the process, but I am still very much limited by factors such as time and motivation, and these have to align for a hobby project.

[OWA]

1 minute ago, shaitan said:

You know what we want OWA; equal footing(we cannot do that part).

We all can go back to ignoring everything, it's mostly worked out(minus some things). Just don't pretend to people that RC & MPF had no legitimate rational reason for blocking it("didn't appreciate the competition that we brought into their space"), when you know full well the cause/effect.

That's a very vague request.

What does equal footing mean to you? Like what do we have to do in order to achieve equal footing?

Please be specific, at this stage I can only guess what you mean. Do you want Renegade and all of the servers on the launcher? If so, we are working on it.

If not, please tell me in simple terms what you mean and what you would like us to do.

Also the questions, for the third time, are:

On 10/17/2018 at 10:36 PM, OWA said:

If that's not good enough, then here are a few questions:

• Do you have any ideas that you think would fix this problem in the short term?
• How can we help you to promote your servers whilst we continue to make preparations for full Renegade Support? 
• What is your ideal outcome for this problem in the long term?

I would really appreciate it if you took the time to answer these, as it would save us all from a lot of trouble.

[shaitan]

OWA, I do not know of any other way other than allowing the whole Renegade community to be on that. Anything else gives whatever lone server on it an unfair advantage(that is the crux of the problem: you guys do not see it as such with any amount of reasoning/proof I've given by your own words). You're putting a solution on us for a situation we didn't create, nor even know how to fix other than what I've said since my first post(last sentence) from October.

Short term: blocking it.
Promoting: My question to you; why would you promote a whole other game(how would you, and how would you think we could help?), when they will round-aboutedly go into Apex? Why wouldn't you just cut out the middle man(Renegade) and have them go directly into Apex? That's why I find that odd, it makes no sense to me. You know why I am not going to advertise like my guys said, it'd be depressing to watch it go on.
Long term: all or none on it. Sometimes, OWA, the easiest solutions are the best. If you did that, there wouldn't even be a problem and people that come after us down the road would also be on equal footing.

 

[dblaney1]

If you guys are gonna keep us blocked on renlist than MPF needs to remove any IA maps they have on their server. 

[shaitan]

That has nothing to do with any of this right now, Dblaney. From what I seen, they went back to D3 maps well before the day I yelled at you and KTFF when finding out about this whole Launcher thing. That is a whiny thing by the way, the "I'm the dev, get rid of my stuff after it's been on here for ages and I'm leaving". It can also be said that you should get rid of every single script you have that zunnie made, considering MPF was zunnie(stupid shit rolls downhill after that). Did you notice him throwing a fit all the times he left and tearing that server/community apart? It's the main reason people like me think the way they do; I've been through that, and have also scrapped a few mods and went back to pre-them. Community comes first. Period.

 

[jonwil]

As far as I am aware all the scripts made by Zunnie are gone from our codebase.

 

[shaitan]

That's not the point Jonwil, you can replace your own name with his. That's why I said "stupid shit rolls downhill", because it'll never end.

*Edit* Just to be clear, when I was talking about zunnie and scripts, I was referring to Apex, not W3D.

Edited January 7, 2019 by shaitan

[jonwil]

All the scripts files created by Zunnie were removed by me on 24/05/2013 in a commit titled "Remove all the useless scripts from zunnie".

All of the ones that were being used were actually replaced by better scripts written by other scripts developers (including myself).

The scripts codebase (including 4.x and IA) is not using any code written by Zunnie anymore (in any form)

 

[Einstein]

Well, you replied before I was done typing my book 😛

9 hours ago, shaitan said:

It can also be said that you should get rid of every single script you have that zunnie made

This was done literally forever ago and has been talked about numerous times. It is very common knowledge, I'm sorry that you were not informed.

[Original post]

---

Let me preface this post by saying that I will not be speaking right now on behalf of W3D Hub, but rather as just me, Einstein, a player/user, nothing more.

---

I've been pretty inactive in recent months, not doing as much as I normally do, or being present as much as I have in the past. I hear about current events and occasionally visit the forum and read a little bit, etc. Don't really have time right now to be "involved" as I usually am, thus me speaking as myself and not as a representative of this place.

I have a reputation among those who know me for being (or attempting to be) unbiased and objective, respectful, and a little bit over-analytical. Its just my nature. So briefly here, I am going to 1) state what I am seeing/have seen, and 2) analyze what I have seen.

---

Many weeks ago, an issue was raised by the leadership of RenCorner and MPF to the general public of W3D Hub in this thread here, which at face value seems to be a sudden demand and/or call to action regarding the Interim Apex project (previously Imperial Age). After some heated discussion, the roots of the problem are exposed, etc. Some solutions are proposed, nothing really gets done, the discussion goes to PM, I lose track of it, and it eventually basically dies from what I understand, though the problem was never resolved entirely. Some aspects of the problem (ex: the mishap with the IA download accidentally containing some renegade files which were thought to have been removed in the initial release version) were promptly addressed and resolved, and as far as I know, that was one of them. Other bits, such as "the fairness of the IA project existing in the same universe as stock Renegade", have been rather put off by both sides for another day. The entity in command of the Renlist backend blocked the IA server from the list, and then *silence*. Though I do hear that as a result of these happenings, @danpaul88 has stepped up and volunteered his own time and keystrokes to develop and evolve the W3D Hub launcher into a platform which can one day support stock Renegade, as well as all the stock (and modded) servers, which are currently available via the Renlist tool, in addition to all of the in-house projects which are currently available via the launcher.

Fast-forward like idk....couple months or something. Earlier today anyway. Unrelated drama about things that I admittedly do not understand (because I've been out of touch) is happening in this thread, and again seemingly very suddenly, and for some reason hi-jacking a thread of completely unrelated subject matter entirely, another post, by the same, representative of the same, expressing basically the same. In response, @OWA resumes the conversation from somewhere close to the point at which it died before, reiterating that there are some questions from the prior discussions which were posed to the individuals which have grievances, which have never been answered. A little bit more back-and-forth, and OWA's questions are now answered. OWA has presumably not seen the reply yet, and has not responded yet. Whew! Now we have arrived.....

---

In the interest of remaining unbiased, and also putting forth that image, let me just make one general clarification point. A person's Point of view / Frame of Reference can easily be mistaken for bias, but they are two different things entirely, though related. The angle at which an event was witnessed (Frame of Reference) when described by the witness, may appear to take the form of a bias, when in reality it is simply an incomplete picture of the event which transpired. Simply put, all of the accounts logged above being from one viewpoint does not necessitate that the witness (me) is biased towards that viewpoint.

---

And now the Analysis....

Everything I have seen so far has consisted of forces/entities outside W3D Hub suddenly coming to the W3D Hub forum to air out grievances about how things are done here. Even going so far as to demand that certain things not be done the way in which they are, followed by threats which follow the pattern of "if you don't stop doing (or start doing) ABC, then we will retaliate by doing XYZ", which was followed through, citing repeatedly "cause and effect.....cause and effect".

Lets look at some cause and effect then shall we?

Exactly how would these individuals feel, if the staff of W3D Hub showed up in these other communities and started making demands? "Cause and effect". What would happen? What would happen, if after the W3D Hub staff, who, assuming that they were completely in the right (because they had perceived, completely unbeknownst to the inhabitants of these other communities, that they had been wronged by them in some way) showed up in these other communities and after making their demands, made threats, and followed through with these threats, because these other communities did not conform or bend to their will? "Cause and effect". How might that play out?

It is peculiar to me, the double-standard which seems to exist in some aspects of this situation.

Moving forward, please examine the following quotes:

12 hours ago, OWA said:

Please be specific, at this stage I can only guess what you mean. Do you want Renegade and all of the servers on the launcher? If so, we are working on it.

 

10 hours ago, shaitan said:

Long term: all or none on it.

It would appear that there is some sort of breakdown in communication here. Correct me if I am mistaken, but it appears that @shaitan is stating here that the ultimate solution to this problematic situation is exactly what @OWA has said that W3D Hub is already actively working on and in the process of implementing? If this is the case, then will someone PLEASE explain to me what this is actually about? Because this looks to me as if it has solved itself, but that people were too occupied with the fighting itself to actually notice!

Eh?

[shaitan]

My responses after your post, Einstein will be in that pm.

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, shaitan said:

My responses after your post, Einstein will be in that pm.

Oh no wait, I didn't mean to kill the discussion off. I just want to understand what is going on because I don't. I didn't mean for you to go hide the discussion now, that is not necessary. And plus, things are kinda transparent right now so it might be good if they stayed that way.

[WNxHeadShot]

15 hours ago, MPRA2 said:

 

But uh, Tiberium Essence 2.0 just dropped a few days ago, so we have the forgotten faction..... However the units are just borderline ridiculous like in RA3.... Floaters with bunkers strapped to them, tractors with 90mm guns, repair kits (they are the only way to repair other vehicles after you research the repair upgrade, aside from a repair ability.) Oh did I mention they are the MBT for the Forgotten? instead of a scrapped Medium tank or even a Titan Mk I that has a jury rigged cannon or even a chaingun on it? So they got Tiberium obelisk tanks, a Battle Bus that is unarmed but has a rocket pod on top of it. They have a Technical with a cannon on it, but its actually a machine gun. A few artillery units that I never touched, a smaller MARV that actually looks pretty cool, oh and before I forget.... THEY HAVE A SUPERWEAPON THAT WHEN BUILT, IS INSTANTLY CHARGED. Last I remember, the Forgotten were rag tag groups of tiberium mutants that scraps their own shit together using old tech.... I know they probably have technology, but it just seems a bit much when you have a tank with a giant blue tiberium crystal in the gun barrel that shoots out a ball of obelisk laser.......

Anyways, its a pretty fun mod.

Oh and Contra got a final .009 release. Doesnt really do much but some new units, and a few aesthetic changes to some units....

Ofcourse stuff is going to be overpowered, it's still in alpha stages, give it some time.  And I agree on the part with the high tech stuff, I mentioned it on their ModDB page ages ago. They shouldn't have super high tech stuff but a more GLA like faction where they have shitty low quality and weak tanks, which you could upgrade to be stronger. The Superweapon becomes available to fire as soon as you build it because it's bugged, if you fire it it's going to start the timer. But I like them nonetheless.

[Dadud]

1 hour ago, shaitan said:

My responses after your post, Einstein will be in that pm.

booooooooooooooooo, dont be tiny baby man

Edited January 7, 2019 by Dadud

[MPRA2]

2 hours ago, WNxHeadShot said:

Ofcourse stuff is going to be overpowered, it's still in alpha stages, give it some time.  And I agree on the part with the high tech stuff, I mentioned it on their ModDB page ages ago. They shouldn't have super high tech stuff but a more GLA like faction where they have shitty low quality and weak tanks, which you could upgrade to be stronger. The Superweapon becomes available to fire as soon as you build it because it's bugged, if you fire it it's going to start the timer. But I like them nonetheless.

Oh don't get me wrong, I knew it was going to have balance issues.... *cough* flak trooper *cough* as well as having multiple bugs. I just didn't think the Forgotten would have such High Tech borderline RA3-like units. I figured the Psy Wave SW being instantly charged was a bug, because that would just break all balance whatsoever. Nonetheless I'm still hyped for the mod to improve. Honestly my biggest issue with the mod is the war floater.... Its just... not.... no.... just no.

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, Dadud said:

booooooooooooooooo, dont be tiny baby man

*puts moderator hat back on*

Lets not continue to hurl insults at each other in public. It will only make things worse and derail this, drag it out longer, you get the idea.... Thanks.

*takes moderator hat back off*

7 hours ago, shaitan said:

My responses after your post, Einstein will be in that pm.

Since you elected to start this in public, and air out everything where the whole world can see on this forum, do you not think it would also be a great idea to let the whole world see how we solve this? I really think hiding the discussion at this point is a very poor move.

[Mezmerize]

So this shaitan guy, what, he runs RenCorner? He's the guy who keeps shutting Interim Apex down because........ something?

Lets face it, it's because he got mad that people liked playing it over vanilla Renegade, and turns out it wasn't just a fad - week after week IA held the highest player count. People liked it.

So shaitan bitched. Bitched hard. Even after some legit demands were met (no more free copy of base Renegade game while using W3D Hub IA install, that one and only TRUE issue was fixed) the bitching continued. And here we are.

For shame, shaitan. Don't hide in PM. Spill it. What's your problem? Specifically? Say it now for the record because so far, it only seems like simple butthurt. So go ahead and disprove this.

[Pushwall]

28 minutes ago, Mezmerize said:

 

Hi Mackintoke aka DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr (a name shaitan might be more familiar with), you might want to read the post directly above yours and then ask yourself why you keep getting banned wherever you go. Good day.

[shaitan]

Goddamnit, Pushwall. I had a scathing reply to him, and was just about to post until I seen you say who he was. Nevermind that then, knowing who he is, how he understands nothing even with being slapped in the face with an encyclopedia series.