Reborn TS: Reborn News Update (3 October 2019)

[FRAYDO]

TS:R news coming up! More on scaling, new arms, introducing the new Mobile EMP prototype, and discussion of the GDI AAPC.

Scaling
In the previous update, we were showing you the coding and magic being worked on for scaling infantry. Yah-Nosh has put together a video for fun exhibiting his work in that.

"Even as famine ravages the planet, GDI continues to deny that its food shipments are being tampered with."

At the end of the day, the work that has gone into scaling now allows us to correct infantry sizes with respect to their build (i.e. Cyborgs are taller than humans) and without causing issues in worldbox collisions and getting stuck on certain doorways.

 

New Arms
CMDBob has completed new arms for our brothers of Nod. Kane has been loathed to attack America, but I feel it's time, and you're the one to do it is pleased with these changes.

Elite Cadre New Arms

Generic Nod Soldier New Arms

Generic Nod Soldier New Arms (Engineer)

Nod Flame Trooper New Arms

Nod Flame Trooper New Arms (Red Sleeves)

 

The New Mobile EMP
Preliminary testing of the Mobile EMP has shown that the vehicle poses two issues: 1) it was too boring to sit inside and simply fire off the EMP at the click of a mouse and 2) it was not fun to play against when the EMP cannot be feasibly defensed against before being hit.

Deliberation with the development team has led to the experimental rollout of the new Mobile EMP, or the MEMP-tillery as some soldiers have come to call it. Others also say MEMPY, but we don't talk about those soldiers.

GDI R&D, led by the Chief Wizards of Crazy Game Ideas, otherwise known as Raap and OWA, have completed their prototype and deployed it for field testing.

 

The new Mobile EMP offers a different gameplay approach to GDI forces. This MEMP lobs a ball of EMP energy, disabling enemy vehicles where the strike lands, replacing the too easy and too boring button-push gameplay of the previous iteration. In this method, GDI drivers will need to more carefully play this vehicle on the field, while faster Nod vehicles can move to outrace the lob and close the distance.

This change is going through extensive testing to ensure this variation of the MEMP delivers more fun gameplay for both sides in using it and fighting against it.

 

Weaponise the AAPC?
Discussion has surfaced in the development chat of possibly weaponising the GDI AAPC. Some team members argue the AAPC needs something to allow it to better support frontal infantry assaults, while conservative team members argue the AAPC functions in its role well enough as-is and needs no changes.

In support of the weaponisation, OWA has put together some variation concepts. Other ideas for changing the AAPC include allowing it to refill C4 and armour, provide smokescreen, and electronic countermeasures. It should be noted, and I cannot stress this enough: This is all completely conceptual.

If you have an opinion of the GDI AAPC, whether in favour of weapons or against changes, you are welcome to voice your suggestions and concerns.

That should be about it for this update. Have I missed anything? Anything you are curious of at this time regarding development progress and want it featured in the next update? Let us know!

[blurb]TS:R news coming up! More on scaling, new arms, introducing the new Mobile EMP prototype, and discussion of the GDI AAPC.[/blurb]

[Jeod]

Does Reborn 2.0 have many maps that actually work well for the AAPC's amphibious advantage?

[FRAYDO]

We're actually removing all maps from Reborn 2.0 so no one has an advantage or disadvantage. The Second Tiberium War will be fought on a flat plane.

[NodGuy]

1 hour ago, FRAYDO said:

We're actually removing all maps from Reborn 2.0 so no one has an advantage or disadvantage. The Second Tiberium War will be fought on a flat plane.

Neat. 

[Myla]

great stuff

[GaryOak]

17 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

New Arms
CMDBob has completed new arms for our brothers of Nod. Kane has been loathed to attack America, but I feel it's time, and you're the one to do it is pleased with these changes.

 

 

 

[blurb]TS:R news coming up! More on scaling, new arms, introducing the new Mobile EMP prototype, and discussion of the GDI AAPC.[/blurb]

Yes, arms change more quickly than some people think.

[Jeod]

18 hours ago, Jeod said:

Does Reborn 2.0 have many maps that actually work well for the AAPC's amphibious advantage?

 

10 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

We're actually removing all maps from Reborn 2.0 so no one has an advantage or disadvantage. The Second Tiberium War will be fought on a flat plane.

Nod has no way to fight the AAPC while it was in water aside from Banshees. My initial reaction then is why does the AAPC need a gun when it has such a great water advantage? If Reborn has enough maps that use the AAPC's advantage, then I don't see much need for a gun. If not, though, I can see the AAPC getting a gun to be useful on land. I haven't played TSR 2.0 in the test server in a while, so this is purely conjecture.

[FRAYDO]

Two things to consider:

1) Something that hasn't been brought up yet in public as it is still in private discussion is which maps will ship with Reborn 2.0's release. Our mappers are hard at work nailing everything down for this, but at this point I can't tell you which maps are in that use the AAPC's advantage.

2) Those arguing for putting a gun on reason that it is not fun enough for players to simply drive the AAPC and drop off infantry. They assert that more should be given to the AAPC so that after dropping off the infantry the driver can still contribute to the assault, albeit a marginal difference. This ties in to your reasoning of it being useful on land on maps where water routes are not available or the driver opts for a frontal rush.

[Jeod]

2 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

Those arguing for putting a gun on reason that it is not fun enough for players to simply drive the AAPC and drop off infantry. They assert that more should be given to the AAPC so that after dropping off the infantry the driver can still contribute to the assault, albeit a marginal difference. This ties in to your reasoning of it being useful on land on maps where water routes are not available or the driver opts for a frontal rush.

Shooting things isn't everything in war though. I could really go either way with regards to the gun/no gun debate, but a compromise might be to up the AAPC's utility by having it restock inventory for infantry who are near it or inside it, boost the armor a bit, and allow it to be built if the war factory is dead via dropship so infantry assaults are still viable.

[thedisclaimitory]

i kind of like the second vulcan cannon mount on the apc it looks cool and has alot more detail to the turret other than the turrets found on the mk2 

[Raptor29aa]

@AAPC: Interesting concept by the way. It never occurred to me that maybe the same unit could have a different weapon layout. Just hear me on this/suspend judgement for one moment, instead of having one gun why not add some variation and increased choice? Not saying this would be a TSR 2.0 thing, but it could be a future asset. Think about it not just selecting the unit/tank but also selection it’s payload/weapon type. Think about it incendiary vs armor piercing vs Tiberium. And not just tanks but for infantry too. Or maybe it could be a veterancy perk for after 2.0?  This could be a cool future feature.

[Raap]

In regards to maps, I can only say that you need to take everything you know about TSR maps right now, and delete it.

When we are further along, we will share more details.

[forg0ten1]

no apc guns or I drink bleach

[thedisclaimitory]

why?? i kind of like it @forg0ten1

[FRAYDO]

5 hours ago, forg0ten1 said:

no apc guns or I drink bleach

[Raptor29aa]

The AAPC depends on the devs vision. Some FPS games are more like chess or  some are lore like cards. 

Chess: set pieces/units, set game-board/terrain, heavy focus on bilateral conflict, tactics, movements/formations, and key targets. 

Cards: varying decks/units , wild cards/power ups, heavy focus on multilateral conflict, strategy, chance, and lining up hands. 

It all depends on the level of randomness and variation the devs want the units to have in the in-game environment.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Raptor29aa

[Raap]

Some context for the GDI APC gun, which is still in concept stages.

It is most likely going to be an auto cannon weapon, something no TSR unit has right now.

Damage-wise it will be worse at anti-infantry than the Wolverine, and worst against vehicles and structures than the Titan. It would be a sort of "sub-par jack of all trades, master of nothing". Useful to help finish off low health enemies, but mainly to help make the driver have something to do while driving. It's also a decent tool for communication; Being able to fire upon the intended target so the crew knows, without having to directly communicate, what the intended target is.

Being an auto cannon, it would mean it has a relatively low RPM (something like 1 round per 0.75 seconds, give or take).

[forg0ten1]

On 10/6/2019 at 5:12 PM, thedisclaimitory said:

why?? i kind of like it @forg0ten1

because i'd like to see reborn stick as close to tiberian sun as possible, within reason.

[Raap]

13 hours ago, forg0ten1 said:

because i'd like to see reborn stick as close to tiberian sun as possible, within reason.

We're trying to not limit gameplay design for a shooter based on arbitrary restrictions such as "the RTS didn't do it". Remember, this is not an RTS.

We will respect the source material in terms of visuals and high level gameplay, but a lot of the combat and control mechanics must be tailored towards being suitable for FPS gameplay, otherwise you'd be left with a bunch of niche units only a few people would enjoy playing. Perfect example: The old Mobile EMP.

This should come to no surprise for long-term Reborn followers, as the game always deviated from source material for gameplay purposes. See for example the expanded infantry character roster. The only difference now is, TSR isn't getting more new units added, but the existing ones will be more refined and more fun, to more people.

[Raptor29aa]

I don’t know the original TS didn’t allow infantry to walk off steep cliffs/embankments; you had to find a ramp.

[forg0ten1]

1 hour ago, Raptor29aa said:

I don’t know the original TS didn’t allow infantry to walk off steep cliffs/embankments; you had to find a ramp.

 

12 hours ago, Raap said:

We're trying to not limit gameplay design for a shooter based on arbitrary restrictions such as "the RTS didn't do it". Remember, this is not an RTS.

 

im not saying it has to be an exact clone of TS. I just don't see any need for a gun on the apc. I find the gdi apc to be a very fun unit to play, even without the gun, just because its so good at squishing people. Plus, if you add a gun to the gdi apc, wouldn't you have to add one to the Nod counterpart as well?

 

I think my main gripe is that you'd be changing the look of an iconic tiberian sun unit, even if it is only slightly

Edited October 8, 2019 by forg0ten1

[forg0ten1]

12 hours ago, Raap said:

 

We will respect the source material in terms of visuals and high level gameplay

wouldn't that mean not visually changing the apc by adding a gun on top of it?

[Raap]

7 hours ago, forg0ten1 said:

 

im not saying it has to be an exact clone of TS. I just don't see any need for a gun on the apc. I find the gdi apc to be a very fun unit to play, even without the gun, just because its so good at squishing people. Plus, if you add a gun to the gdi apc, wouldn't you have to add one to the Nod counterpart as well?

 

I think my main gripe is that you'd be changing the look of an iconic tiberian sun unit, even if it is only slightly

The Nod APC can dig, a very useful function that is difficult to counter. We're also considering giving it a harmful drill like the Devil's Tongue. 

 

6 hours ago, forg0ten1 said:

wouldn't that mean not visually changing the apc by adding a gun on top of it?

It's a very small weapon, it doesn't even the vehicle silhouette. 

As for fun; This is subjective. For each person saying X is fun, there is someone saying X is not fun. The general assumption here is however, that units that "got nothing to do besides moving" is more likely to be considered not fun by more people.

Either way, play testing will dictate if this is a keeper or not. I'm personally optimistic, since the Mobile EMP overhaul did in fact see positive feedback, and those changes were made primarily for very similar reasons (with the added effort put into making it not a frustrating unit to fight as a Nod player).

[Raptor29aa]

Can you comment on how  the AAPC’s gun will fair against the AAPC’s mortal enemy the Harpee and banshee?

[FRAYDO]

Nothing concrete yet on how it will fare against enemy aircraft.

[Goliath35]

I'm surprised there isn't a map where there's an abandoned GDI base, and the only vehicle that spawns for both teams to use are the old X-66 mammoths. 

[delta]

On 10/7/2019 at 2:18 PM, forg0ten1 said:

because i'd like to see reborn stick as close to tiberian sun as possible, within reason.

Wouldn't the Mobile EMP change be much more of a violation of this than adding a gun to the AAPC?

[Raap]

2 hours ago, delta said:

Wouldn't the Mobile EMP change be much more of a violation of this than adding a gun to the AAPC?

Any change is technically a violation of source material. But there comes a point where you have to make some changes. The source material is an RTS from 20 (!) years ago. 

What is important here is that the changes do not violate the "feeling" of the universe. The EMP Cannon does not do this because it logically makes a hybrid of two source materials; The Mobile EMP vehicle, and the EMP Cannon defense structure. The latter does not exist in TSR so by merging it into the Mobile EMP, we effectively added something from the original source material into TSR.

Likewise, any other additions or alterations applied to TSR that deviate from the source material, are not necessarily bad, as long as they do not exceed the realm of plausibility, providing that the rationale behind the change(s) are well grounded. 

[delta]

Mmm yeah, I was just saying that if we're going to nitpick about deviations, the Mobile EMP change looks more significant than the AAPC one 

[forg0ten1]

17 hours ago, delta said:

Wouldn't the Mobile EMP change be much more of a violation of this than adding a gun to the AAPC?

so far, im actually fine with the MEMP. Its look hasn't been changed like the apc's, so im fine so far. I have to play around a bit more with the MEMP to get a better opinion on it. As I said before, I know there are gonna be deviations, going from a rts to a fps, but some of those deviations are less tolerable than others