A Path Beyond A proper Light Tank for APB?

[Chad1233]

The light tank and what is it in RA1 was discussed years ago and so a Chaffee was settled but even though I'm sure people noticed the Light Tank seen in CGI cutscenes was consistent and was pointed out in the C&C fan wiki as pictures. So I think it should be recreated, ignoring the fact the M2 Bradly in-game icon was reused from C&C1.

It took me years to realize the tank in this cutscene wasn't the M1 but infact the light tank since the turret tricked me. The hull is completely different and seems like a combination of late 40s/50 American tanks but with a modified M1 Abrams Turret that's not as wide and shorter with a smaller/shorter gun. This is the best close up of the tank itself. (Also note it has the NATO logo on the front like they were in early versions of Red alert.)

Spoiler

These are high res screenshots which shows two light tanks and a medium. It also shows the proportions to the medium, though they're further back but definitely not as wide and seem as tall though hard to tell.

Spoiler

And the link below is nice screenshots of the tank done with a AI upscaler to show some angles like the back/sides and close ups. (credit to Tomson26 for help). I had to upload them somewhere else due to file size.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/b063q68gbb2e7du/Raidg.zip/file

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Chad1233

[delta]

Is there actually a consistent tank model in the cutscenes that we can infer to be the light tank?

[Chad1233]

It's never actually mentioned to be a light tank in the cutscenes but it could obviously be it just because it's smaller/less wider than a M1 Abrams, has a smaller turret and shorter gun thus lower caliber gun, plus the model remains the same in every appearance.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Chad1233

[OWA]

My take on it is that the Light Tank is an M41 Walker Bulldog.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M41_Walker_Bulldog

[Jeod]

I wish people would stop trying to match C&C tanks to real-world counterparts. It's an alternate universe. The theater of war changed and the Allies are now having to cross Russian terrain, so obviously the blueprints of their vehicles would adapt to such a change. Westwood devs probably combined a few favorites of theirs into fictional designs.

[Pushwall]

If someone actually wants to do the model and the 4 camos and the rigging and everything then sure I guess? This is hardly a priority because the current light tank isn't using a model from 2004 like, say, the Allied boats were.

[Chad1233]

4 hours ago, OWA said:

My take on it is that the Light Tank is an M41 Walker Bulldog.

I mean as said they took inspiration from various designs as I checked the hull and compared it to the Pershing/Patton tanks and Bulldog and seems like a combination of them while the turret itself is like a baby M1 Abrams turret.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Chad1233

[Goliath35]

I still like to keep it as a Chaffee

[thedisclaimitory]

i think the m24 chaffee is the true light tank of Ra1 because its got a rounder turret, its fast, its not an apc, and it was made during the start of the coldwar and i think it was used during the Vietnam war and I think it was a popularized tank so im definitely sold that the Ra1 light tank is the m24 chaffee light tank                                                   

Edited November 15, 2019 by thedisclaimitory
I added a picture

[Chad1233]

I don't think it should outright replace the Chaffee since anything WW2 related could fit RA1's universe but I'm just interested to see the light tank recreated that's seen in all the CGI scenes since it was something part of the RA1 world in cut scenes. Maybe sometime in the future when they want a new model or something.

If you wanted to think a bit more realistically a Bulldog would make more sense than a Chaffee since that puny 75 had trouble penning T-34-85's frontally, let alone a double barrelled T-62/72

Edited November 16, 2019 by Chad1233

[Goliath35]

I think the current light tank model is a perfect representation of the said vehicle, far better than the old model, which for some reason looks like an M60. 

[delta]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:31 AM, Chad1233 said:

I mean as said they took inspiration from various designs as I checked the hull and compared it to the Pershing/Patton tanks and Bulldog and seems like a combination of them while the turret itself is like a baby M1 Abrams turret.

Funnily enough, I've been playing World of Tanks, and I managed to grind my way up to the T-54. When I look at the tank from the top-down, it really looks to me like the Allied medium tank sprite.

[SilverShark]

The Chaffee is fine as it is

[MPRA2]

From how the light tank looks in the cinematic renders, it looks like a HEAVILY modified Walker Bulldog with a prototype M1 Abrams turret on it, maybe even a variant of the XM-1. You don't really get a good full 3d view of it, but my best guess is that its a Walker Bulldog hull with a Chrysler's XM-1 turret on it.

Edited November 27, 2019 by MPRA2

[MPRA2]

 

The turret of the XM-1 (C) (right) has that little triangular bit in the back, and looks a bit like the cinematic render's turret minus the pintle mount MGs. I mean really, all you gotta do is have someone slap that turret onto the M-41's hull, and then put a 76mm gun (most likely using an APDS round or even APFSDS)

Edited November 27, 2019 by MPRA2

[Ice]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:31 AM, Jeod said:

I wish people would stop trying to match C&C tanks to real-world counterparts. It's an alternate universe. The theater of war changed and the Allies are now having to cross Russian terrain, so obviously the blueprints of their vehicles would adapt to such a change. Westwood devs probably combined a few favorites of theirs into fictional designs.

Not only that, but realistically both the Allied tank classes (Light and Medium) would not be comprised of a single design each, but would in fact be a collection of many different (primarily if not exclusively European) designs, as each country would be using their own national tank designs; Germany producing Panzer-style light tanks, France further developing their R35/R40 series light tanks or perhaps producing something similar to an early-model AMX-13, England producing something similar to the Cromwell, etc.

Medium tanks early in the war would likely be a mixed bag of mid-to-late 1940's designs similar to the proposed E50/E50M. Later in the war as tank design changed, these earlier designs may be supplemented or replaced with something resembling the early-model Leopard 1 or AMX-30, and finally the Abrams-like tank shown in RA1 cutscenes could be one of the 'definitive' designs introduced near the end of the war.

IIRC there's also a cutscene in RA2 which briefly shows footage of Soviet troops surrendering to a Panzer III. Although obviously this tank would be completely obsolete in RA2's time period and thus not in service with any Allied country, it can be interpreted that the Allies were in fact reusing old stock footage from the previous war for propaganda purposes, and it's entirely possible that the Panzer III (or other similar designs), despite its obsolescence even back then, may have still been in limited/reserve service with some countries during RA1, especially in poorer or less-industrialized countries which lacked the means to produce/purchase more modern tanks at the time.

In any case, I don't see much need to change the existing Light Tank; it's clearly distinguished from the Medium and Heavy tanks in-game, it very clearly fits into its role, and suits the 'Light Tank' title perfectly, quite unlike the old APB Light Tank which was based on an M60 Main Battle Tank for some reason.

Spoiler

Although personally, I'd have based the Allied Light Tank on something similar to the Panzer III/IV, which was a design proposed during WWII, essentially combining components of the Panzer III and Panzer IV into a single tank in order to simplify logistics and reduce overall costs. Some versions of this design also prominently featured sloped armour as well. With light armour, theoretically good mobility and armed with a 75mm cannon, in my opinion this tank would be a near-perfect representation of an Allied Light Tank during the early days of RA1:

 

[MPRA2]

Why do I see a pony on that tank?

[Ice]

6 hours ago, MPRA2 said:

Why do I see a pony on that tank?

Custom texture/emblem I guess?

[Jerad2142]

[MPRA2]

5 hours ago, Jerad2142 said:

I... w... Why am I even surprised?

[devilslayersbane]

Someone mentioned the M24 chaffee having a hard time penetrating T-34's. While that's true in our universe, it's highly likely that certain ammo types, such as HEAT-FS, APDS, HESH and possibly even APFSDS, which all saw developmental breakthroughs in our real-world late WWII and early Cold War. These rounds saw widespread use during cold-war conflicts and continue to be developed to this day.

It would be likely that any M24-like tanks (and it's French, British, and German counterparts)  would have been upgraded with a smoothbore 75mm to help support those rounds.

[delta]

Do we really want to start talking about ammo types in a game series where it takes a million tank rounds to kill a single soldier?