Popular Post Raap Posted January 25, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Greetings, I've been requested to re-create the Hostile Waters map for many years now, so with Delta being released and re-introducing naval combat to the game, I suppose it's about time that I got to work on it... A brief piece of history: Hostile Waters was originally a .935 map featuring a naval and air-only gameplay. Both teams had their own little island, with in the middle a cluster of icebergs dividing them. This created some unique level gameplay where Soviet submarines could ambush Allied ships by hiding underneath the icebergs, but also putting them in a tight fighting space. The map had custom naval and air balance, as back in the earlier days of APB gameplay balance was further from where it is now. Hostile Waters also introduced two modified "game-breaker" units, high end units designed to break a potential stalemate; The Soviet "Nuclear Submarine", and Allied "Ion Destroyer". Needless to say these were a topic of love and hate by the players, and unfortunately server side donations made them easier to obtain than intended. I will go ahead and say that the "game-breaker" units will not return in this version of the map, since Delta's gameplay does not require them. (This is a work in progress!) The new Hostile Waters is remade from the ground up, which has taken me a little while since I haven't used any W3D tools or 3DS Max since I left the BlueHell Productions team in 2012. Also learning and implementing the new 'Delta-way' of doing things has taken some additional time so far, but my thanks goes to Generalcamo and Pushwall for answering my questions and providing me with Delta assets. The map will have a few more notable differences over its predecessor: - Advanced Naval Yard and Submarine Pen. * Named "Advanced" to highlight they are different from their normal counterparts. * Designed for Hostile Waters gameplay. * Anti-camp designs, Allied ships spawn behind a gate, Soviet submarines spawn inside and leave while submerged. * Repair zone clearly marked with a crane, no more guessing which side is the repair area. * Three defenses on the building roof(s). * Both buildings have at least one designed "naval transport landing area" for potential infantry attacks on the naval buildings. * Allied Advanced Naval Yard is of similar scale as the Sub Pen, for balance. * The game ends upon sub pen/naval yard destruction. - New Icebergs * A less eye-blinding "ice" effect! * The icebergs have two Naval Transport landing areas. * Infantry access to the icebergs adds a new dynamic; Infantry can now engage more in the gameplay of this map (Tech Level 4 infantry enabled). * Special map-unique secondary objective is on the icebergs (More info soon!). - Soviet Chinooks are disabled, in order to put the gameplay focus on naval transports for all infantry purposes. - Improved map plot (More info soon!). The map and both buildings are currently fairly well underway in development, and providing there are no unexpected surprises (and there always are), I expect to have a playable version "Soon". If anyone has any feedback on the original map, or concerns about this one, this would be the place to throw it at me... Edited January 25, 2016 by Raap 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Awesome! It will be great to have this one finally added back to the list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonsense715 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 This looks promising. Can't wait to see what you have cooked up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWA Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 My body is ready! I've been waiting for this map for so long. Thanks for remaking it Raap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 My body is ready! I've been waiting for this map for so long. Thanks for remaking it Raap! A better time to do it than now will not come, so yeah. It's taken me quite some time to get to this point, since I started off quite rusty - probably still am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganein14 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Whoa.....looking sexy Hostile Waters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERTi60 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad1233 Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Aww man this map was pretty fun when it came out but it sucks to hear the ATS Submarine and Ion Destroyer won't make an appearance again. By the way will the secret soviet tunnel will be back in non glitched form where you couldn't get out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Aww man this map was pretty fun when it came out but it sucks to hear the ATS Submarine and Ion Destroyer won't make an appearance again. By the way will the secret soviet tunnel will be back in non glitched form where you couldn't get out? Delta's balance just doesn't require special units... However that doesn't mean I won't include other things! The development focus has shifted away from custom units to two modified buildings and gameplay improvements around and on top of the icebergs, and be designed around core gameplay. However at this time I cannot go into specifics as everything is subject to change depending on what is possible or not possible to implement without requiring new script work. The cave unfortunately remains a dead end (ir is different, though). I was going to add an extra depth layer via an underground waterway, unfortunately this has been axed since Delta's naval implementation does not allow for such playable space below the water level. It is important to note that I am intentionally not making a big departure from the original map design, the only noticeable change here is entry points to the icebergs and the content on them, where previously this was empty space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I've done more work on the Advanced Submarine Pen, so here is a quick video showing the layout and how the design deals with spawn camping and such. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad1233 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Such a dramatic explosion it blew me away! For game play reasons I suggest to keep each side from being completely defenseless after their naval production is gone you should make 1 or 2 free gunboats or submarine spawn every 5 minutes in a small pier after it's dead. Or maybe have a free transport ready at start of game to make game play faster for whatever you plan to do with the ice mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Such a dramatic explosion it blew me away! For game play reasons I suggest to keep each side from being completely defenseless after their naval production is gone you should make 1 or 2 free gunboats or submarine spawn every 5 minutes in a small pier after it's dead. Or maybe have a free transport ready at start of game to make game play faster for whatever you plan to do with the ice mountains. The current plan is to have the game end shortly after the naval building is destroyed, similar to how seamist ends shortly after the radar dome is destroyed. In-game dialog will explain this. There are a few start-up vehicles that do not respawn, but both teams have two 4 credit/tick silo's to make sure credits aren't a big issue to those who defend their silo's... Which is harder to do than in most maps. (The original map had a single 10 credit/tick silo per team, due to limitations of how silo's worked back then.) Note that the advanced naval buildings, besides the obvious addition of defenses, also offer double the health of their regular counterparts, as well as a faction-locked MCT room. Edit: Since the video I have improved the visuals of the 'mini bridges' and the direct area near them. I now have to consider the sub pen 'done' otherwise the map itself will never be finished in time. The Allied naval yard will be more straight forward to finish up - believe me when I say it took me many hours to get the subs and their spawn areas to function exactly as I wanted them to, but Allied ships are much more straight forward to implement. When the map is done, I will publish the building files for anyone who cares to look at them, or even use them. Edited January 27, 2016 by Raap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonsense715 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Nice. You've completely redesigned the sub pen in a matter of days. Great job Raap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Nice. You've completely redesigned the sub pen in a matter of days. Great job Raap I'm not sure if that's in the right time frame for such a task. At times I felt progress was slow as I was getting lost fixing little things. Also I got a peculiar development method; nearly everything is done manually. Then of course there is also me battling the W3D engine on various fronts such as getting new aggregates to show up and such (which is still a hit and miss process for reasons I cannot seem to be able to comprehend). Anyhow, I will make a similar video for the Allied naval yard once it is "done". Edited January 27, 2016 by Raap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I love what I see. Great work so far man! ....faction-locked MCT room. Care to expound on your reasoning here? I'm one of these curious types see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I love what I see. Great work so far man! ....faction-locked MCT room. Care to expound on your reasoning here? I'm one of these curious types see... Call it an experiment. I hope to see the naval buildings destroyed by naval. If it ends up feeling weird in play testing, I can change it to a normal door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCamo Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 It gives the allies a significant advantage though. Spies can simply let engineers in. The Soviets do not have that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamWolf Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 At last, Hostile Waters!! Awesome work so far Raap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 It gives the allies a significant advantage though. Spies can simply let engineers in. The Soviets do not have that luxury. Noted. Meanwhile, here is the naval yard at early development. I've redone most of the mesh from the original base model for better vertex lighting and texturing, but as you can see I was not kidding when I said the naval yard would be of similar scale to the sub pen; the destroyer is a freakin' huge model and it needs a lot of space to fit in! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_Kitty Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 So COOOL! Nice job m8! BTW I hope that the allied naval yard is just as visually interesting as the sub pen. I'm so exited! Now, in related posting, will the naval yard be higher up than the pen, or at water level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) So COOOL! Nice job m8! BTW I hope that the allied naval yard is just as visually interesting as the sub pen. I'm so exited! Now, in related posting, will the naval yard be higher up than the pen, or at water level? The Allied naval yard is going to be unique in visual appearance while still retaining classic design elements (something I'm trying very hard, in order to not make the buildings look very out of place among the other buildings). I'm about half way done with the geometry of it - it's quite a beast. Unlike the sub pen, I had to make the naval yard from scratch as the original mesh was not in the state I needed it to be for what I had in mind. Edited January 28, 2016 by Raap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I love what I see. Great work so far man! ....faction-locked MCT room. Care to expound on your reasoning here? I'm one of these curious types see... Call it an experiment. I hope to see the naval buildings destroyed by naval. If it ends up feeling weird in play testing, I can change it to a normal door. Alright then, fair enough. I love what I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 It gives the allies a significant advantage though. Spies can simply let engineers in. The Soviets do not have that luxury. That requires the Allies to sacrifice one of their fighters to do so though. And if the naval buildings have twice the normal HP, it'd take 3 engineer C4 to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Engi rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Engi rush Besides, a Soviet LST containing 4 RPGs/flamers/shocks (so the same number of players as the potential Allied 3 engies + 1 spy) can bring down a double-health building in a little more time than it takes the C4s to explode, without even needing to be at the MCT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Both buildings do provide more infantry cover and strategic points of entry for naval transports to land, so despite the faction locked door topic, there is room for infantry play (also on the icebergs). Also, lets not forget both teams still got an island base as well. Edited January 28, 2016 by Raap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonsense715 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'd totally play this map with 40+ players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Well, I bet you could field a hundred players on this Allied naval yard, and still have room left to move; (Still a work in progress, and it might seem confusing, but a video at a near-completed state will make sense of the design.) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushwall Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I feel like both that and the sub pen could be DM maps in and of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raap Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I feel like both that and the sub pen could be DM maps in and of themselves. It does feel like, development wise, Hostile Waters is rapidly approaching the scale of 3 maps in one... Reminds me of a certain map I never managed to finish... Rest assured, I'm seeing this one through. I can't mention it often enough however; I'm not doing updated naval buildings just because I feel like it, I do it because without it, the gameplay on the map would suffer a lot if using the normal buildings. The Allied naval yard has to be huge to fit the destroyer, but no space on it goes unused. Worth added explanation: The sub pen has 3 points of entry for infantry, so you'd think the naval yard is a bit open game for the Soviets... But do realize that the true entry points are the three staircases, as the command center/MCT is on the upper level. Naturally, both levels of the naval yard will be having plenty of infantry cover. Edited January 28, 2016 by Raap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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