SEM's thoughts on PR

[devilslayersbane]

 

Since you are using an old game engine are you able to tweak it for multi threading or are you stuck with just 1 core? Its not too much of a problem because CPUs now can really clock up with just 1 active core.

 

You may have to wait for an informed answer on the multi-threading/one core question.

 

By default, the engine does not support this at all, as it was built when single core processors still reigned supreme. I believe, ECW is the only project here that makes use of more than one thread, but ECW is really a thing unto itself anyway. Its not fully multi-thread aware, but rather just a few operations have been assigned to an additional thread. Jerad2142 is the one to ask for more info on this. Also jonwil and Saberhawk could shed more light on the internal workings surrounding this.

 

Most games even today have difficulty dealing with multiple cores/threads. Arma 3 came out in September of 2013 and has a big CPU bottleneck which will kill your framerate (this is mostly due to AI). Using multiple cores/threads in consumer-grade products is mostly a pipe-dream atm, with what limited multiple core support available being limited to uneven distribution of loads on the separate cores (typically with one core taking the brunt of the work). Multi core rendering is definitely more viable these days (and pretty much required) but a lot of that is done driver/api side, not program side. But you also have to look at consumer-grade CPU's. The best one available right now (for the price) on Intel's side is the Pentium G3470 dual-core at 3.6 Ghz. For the average consumer, it's a great processor. It's fast and reliable, but for advanced consumers it lacks a ton of features that many of us talk about on here: Overclocking, hyperthreading, etc. Until those become more mainstream and normal, we're probably not going to see games that use much more than that without becoming inaccessible to those who can't make the paywall. We have to remember that PC enthusiasts are not the "norm" for pc gaming. We're a minority. Vocal, sure, but we're still a minority. I just happen to be a pc enthusiast who has gotten very lucky (literally had a six-core rig gifted to me). Most people don't have the money or time to invest in picking out PC parts for what their particular situation is. That's why I'm trying to make a side-business doing just that. I like pc parts and I like putting pc's together. If you pay for the parts and the time I take to put them together, I will be more than happy to put it all together for you. Back on topic, Single and dual-core processors are still relevant, even if they no longer hold the title of top-dog. Some people just can't afford any better than that but still want some entertainment. They want to be able to download a game and play without all of the hassle of picking out parts or what-not. That's why consoles are still relevant.

[Einstein]

That's why I'm trying to make a side-business doing just that. I like pc parts and I like putting pc's together. If you pay for the parts and the time I take to put them together, I will be more than happy to put it all together for you.

 

Stealing mah ideas!

 

Kidding I've actually tried this a while back, and if you'll allow me to give you a word of advice on it: Its much easier to just do PC building and service work for people that actually live where you do... Business like this over the internet without having a really nice e-commerce site is pretty difficult to pull off. I certainly don't want to discourage you from doing it the right way but either way, be warned that there are obstacles. (Also hit me on skype if you want to talk about what happened in my case haha)

[System Error Message]

Not every map needs objectives, The typical skirmish gamemode of destroying enemy base does well. Objectives based maps for more variation so people dont get bored of the standard skirmish and the game offers much more. Co op is actually a big deal as it encourages people to bring their friends.

 

Having some way to see the map tags would really help even in the game itself when making a server.

Tags dont need to be many just a few simple things like Infantry only/vehicles, tech level, skirmish/mission, map size (an arbitary number you put there not based on skybox/geomatry size). This will help people who want to host and make their own game sessions and to make it easier for players to see what kind of map is the server currently hosting and if it is a playstyle they like.

 

I used seamist as an example for objectives as how it could be changed to add more mission depth. I also liked the old music for that map better.

Even though this is an FPS it really needs more red alert feel so if there are any campaigns you could replicate from there that would go well in multiplayer that would be good. You could replicate only part of a mission so skipping the build phase for example.

I think defending base or something against waves of AI would be a fun co op mission (number of AI and difficulty should be dynamic to number of players if possible).

 

You dont need many mission maps, even if a quarter of all the maps are missions that would be good enough, they just need to be varied.

 

I get that consumer CPUs arent so multicore but from my coding experience multi threading even on a single core ARM CPU really helps a lot. So even a single core CPU will perform better with multiple threads as you could tweak it so one doesnt wait for the other. If you assume the compiler will be good to sort your threads well and you thread based on task being irrelevant it really pays of.

Edited March 24, 2016 by System Error Message

[FRAYDO]

When the SDK is complete and released to the public, you will be free and able to create all the mission and campaign maps that you would like. Between bug fixes, infantry and vehicle changes, and balance refinements (as you can see in the latest 3.0.4.0 changelog), it is too much for the development team to undertake. With the SDK, this may be a task best left to the community to tackle.

[System Error Message]

community maps would be a good idea. Even better if we can add units as well, than i can make a gigantic map and put everything from RA into it.

[SarahNautili]

hope you know how to model/texture/rig/animate everything that's missing, then.

[FRAYDO]

You will most certainly have the freedom to add your own units and buildings (see: Raap's Hostile Waters). Every thing you may need to learn to do that can be found in the W3D Tutorials section.

 

Of course, tutorials aren't worth much without the proper tools!

GET STARTED - INSTALL THE TOOLS

 

Game asset creation, character modeling, map making and more! All can be done with time, patience, and the desire to learn and to create!

[System Error Message]

The one thing i will never do is character modelling and character animation. Am more of a programmer so i will usually find a way to import things and make them work.

 

I forgot to mention regarding PR is get the game mags to try your games too such as IGN.

[Raap]

The one thing i will never do is character modelling and character animation. Am more of a programmer so i will usually find a way to import things and make them work.

 

I forgot to mention regarding PR is get the game mags to try your games too such as IGN.

 

Be mindful that when importing assets from other games, you run the risk of legal issues.

 

And also, keep in mind while I do not speak for W3D Hub staff, I can say with some level of certainty that W3D Hub will not host for example an APB map on the live server that features content ripped from other games.

 

Custom-made content created specifically for a W3D project is encouraged. Said content can be inspired by the theme that the game is based on, or not, but remember the existence of logical boundaries, and don't add pink bunny death troopers with lazer eyes to a Reborn map.

 

My Hostile Waters already pushes a few limits in that regard, by featuring mechanics and buildings not native to Red Alert or A Path Beyond gameplay. I do like to think however, that I pulled it off somewhat consistently and fitting the overal gameplay and themes, while staying true to the somewhat less serious artistic direction (see icebergs).

 

Yes, some thought actually has to go into these things. Crazy, right?!

 

When the APB SDK finally releases, I personally really look forward to seeing what creative minds can conjure up. Just remember that developing content for W3D isn't a one-click-miracle, and you will need to use a large list of different development tools and have some expertise in each of them, to create what you envision. The "biggest hurdle" by far would be having a high proficiency at using 3DS Studio Max, which handles the bulk of your content development alongside the Level Editor.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Raap

[Einstein]

Be mindful that when importing assets from other games, you run the risk of legal issues.

 

And also, keep in mind while I do not speak for W3D Hub staff, I can say with some level of certainty that W3D Hub will not host for example an APB map on the live server that features content ripped from other games.

 

You are correct.

[OWA]

APB is pushing 14 years old!!! Most people in most far corners of most C&C based communities or otherwise just generic gaming communities have at least heard a rumor of a RA1 FPS project. Even if they've never played it or even bothered to look it up, they've at least heard about it. In other words, we're popular in a sense (which seems kinda backwards I know). We would be hard-pressed to get any streamer to even look at it if we said it was new, because they would most likely know.

I'd be inclined to argue that this is not the case. If more people knew about APB, we'd have a full server and a much more expansive community. Nothing is putting people off from coming here, they simply don't know about it. We're in a dark corner of the internet that people can only find if they search for it. It's our job to get out there and spread the word about the stuff we're making.

 

Our next major PR offensive will hopefully help us to push outwards and greatly expand our playerbase. When people become aware of our work and have an incentive to stay and play, then we'll have a regular playerbase once again. Simple!

 

If streamers knew about us they would probably make APB videos. We can't assume that everyone has heard of us, otherwise we'll never get any new players.

[Einstein]

 

APB is pushing 14 years old!!! Most people in most far corners of most C&C based communities or otherwise just generic gaming communities have at least heard a rumor of a RA1 FPS project. Even if they've never played it or even bothered to look it up, they've at least heard about it. In other words, we're popular in a sense (which seems kinda backwards I know). We would be hard-pressed to get any streamer to even look at it if we said it was new, because they would most likely know.

I'd be inclined to argue that this is not the case. If more people knew about APB, we'd have a full server and a much more expansive community. Nothing is putting people off from coming here, they simply don't know about it. We're in a dark corner of the internet that people can only find if they search for it. It's our job to get out there and spread the word about the stuff we're making.

 

Our next major PR offensive will hopefully help us to push outwards and greatly expand our playerbase. When people become aware of our work and have an incentive to stay and play, then we'll have a regular playerbase once again. Simple!

 

If streamers knew about us they would probably make APB videos. We can't assume that everyone has heard of us, otherwise we'll never get any new players.

 

Looks like I stretched that a bit far in an effort to backup a point I was attempting to make. My apologies.

 

I'm all for a big PR push! If they haven't heard of us, then they shall!

[danpaul88]

What do you suppose happens when these streamers turn up to do their pre-scheduled live streams and find an empty server? Looks bad for them to cancel a stream they announced in advance and looks bad for us too. Our servers aren't full of players 24/7 and that's a problem for streaming an online only experience!

[Raap]

What do you suppose happens when these streamers turn up to do their pre-scheduled live streams and find an empty server? Looks bad for them to cancel a stream they announced in advance and looks bad for us too. Our servers aren't full of players 24/7 and that's a problem for streaming an online only experience!

 

Which is what my point was. The game and W3D infrastructure could do with various improvements first, to solve the empty server issue. Then, and only then, can you start approaching streamers.

[TeamWolf]

 

What do you suppose happens when these streamers turn up to do their pre-scheduled live streams and find an empty server? Looks bad for them to cancel a stream they announced in advance and looks bad for us too. Our servers aren't full of players 24/7 and that's a problem for streaming an online only experience!

 

Which is what my point was. The game and W3D infrastructure could do with various improvements first, to solve the empty server issue. Then, and only then, can you start approaching streamers.

 

 

Well that goes without saying, really.

[Isaac The Madd]

Why not have a game event and invite a bunch of streamers in advance?

[FRAYDO]

It seems you and I are having the same idea here, Isaac. In fact, you're one of the streamers on my invite list! The idea is to have a proper game night, with you and other streamers aboard. During the time of the event, we can drop Youtube and Twitch links of our participating streamers here and there for people to check out a live APB game and invite them to our game and our community.

[danpaul88]

I doubt big name streamers would take kindly to being dictated as to when they should schedule their streams... they're more likely to turn up on their own schedule... which could be literally any time, any day.

[Raap]

I doubt big name streamers would take kindly to being dictated as to when they should schedule their streams... they're more likely to turn up on their own schedule... which could be literally any time, any day.

 

This is correct. So APB and the W3D Hub infrastructure needs to solve a few things most of us refer to as "player quit points". Anyhow, I more than said my share on this subject. Ultimately it's up to W3D Hub staff to decide their own marketing agenda.

[danpaul88]

It's not just quit points... it's getting players to actually join the servers when they're quiet

[Isaac The Madd]

Making the lobby might be a good start.

[System Error Message]

im sure i suggested somewhere of organising the time for streamers so they all join at the same time.

 

Dont forget gaming mags like ign.

 

I did at one point stream but i currently dont have the time for it.

[Raap]

im sure i suggested somewhere of organising the time for streamers so they all join at the same time.

 

Dont forget gaming mags like ign.

 

I did at one point stream but i currently dont have the time for it.

 

The audience for paid-review websites like IGN has diminished greatly over the years due to the common knowledge that such websites give "reviews" based on what the developer pays them. And W3D Hub can't and won't pay them, therefore they won't "review" W3D games. Frankly, be happy about that, since the main thing they'd hammer on about is the dated graphics, or the lack of lottery box skins...

Edited March 29, 2016 by Raap

[danpaul88]

Making the lobby might be a good start.

[System Error Message]

i think he means a join lobby where you join the lobby and are automatically assigned a server.

[GeneralCamo]

There is literally only one server for each game. Exactly why would that be useful? Plus that isn't the thing we have been teasing since even before this community started.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I've been doing my part! Kind of! Sorta. I mean, I'm advertising in a racing simulation environment, so I imagine I've drawn literally 0 people to look in to an arcadey FPS/RTS game...but hey, it's there.

 

Honestly, I imagine the only kind of market where we could really stand to see a lot of new lasting members come from, would be to advertise in an area where other free games are advertised. Basically, push for people too cheap to pay for games who have never heard of us before and won't/can't buy newer options. We have had big PR campaigns before. Magazine mentions. Online articles. A presence in a German games convention. ModDB GOTY competitions. Those were a decade ago. There's next to no chance that any W3D project will be able to gain any kind of mainstream attention for any sustained length of time. A new release of a new project? Sure. That'll work for a little while, a la TSR. But at this point, it's effectively a game we've all been playing for ~15 years, and the large majority of people who would play this game, already have and moved on. The most recent version of the game I played would easily qualify as my favorite version, but even that isn't keeping me interested like it did during the .9935-.994-Beta eras. The only thing that will bring attention back is something game-changing.

And I can't think of anything plausible like that. Can you?

[System Error Message]

i used IGN as an example, you need to get the word out there that this game exists and get people to try the game. Approach streamers and let them discuss among themselves about organising a session. They can tell their viewers to join as well. game mags that arent bribed is an option.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Cart before the horse. Streamers help maintain popularity. They generally do not create popularity on their own, as the stream has to have exciting content to draw viewers to play along. The streamer would likely have to be willing to dedicate time to do PR for his own events to draw enough players to make his own stream worth his time. A random streamer is not going to do this for the fun of it, and that makes the idea quite a difficult pitch.

 

Streamers typically choose what kind of games they want to play on their own, especially ones with significant followings to maintain. To get a streamer to cover our games, we'd have to have something attractive enough to draw a streamer to want to cover it on his own. I maintain that the majority of players who would like to play W3D games, have already done so. There isn't much out there for the PR team to grab. Our best streamer candidate would be someone who was already familiar with W3D and happened to also stream games. However, can such a streamer really gain enough traction to get attention outside of the W3D playerbase itself? I don't know.

 

And then let's say that everything lines up and a streamer starts covering our games. That's actually a problem for the game itself, and it gets worse the more popular it is. Heard the term "Stream-sniping" before? There would be a natural draw for players in the game to get "screen time" and opposing players can do that best by attacking and killing the streamer, who is literally broadcasting everything he sees and does. His presence can hurt the team he's playing on. This can also apply to players on the same team, who may do various different things that hurt the team while trying to wind up as a highlight on the stream, such as deliberate team hampering, or simply too willing to get on camera to actually pay attention to what's going on in the game.

 

Wooing streamers isn't the answer for PR, not on it's own.

[moonsense715]

I maintain that the majority of players who would like to play W3D games, have already done so.

Are you sure about that? Our analytics stat system tells me that on the website purely we have 50+ visitors daily, and 40% of these are always new visitors.

Plus in the past 4 days we had over 140 unique players ingame, a lot of them totally new.