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Pushwall

APB 3.1.1.0 Changelog

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I believe Pushwall already said so, but thanks again to you all who participated in this public test! I'm eager to play Complex with these changes, as I can already tell it will play out much better with them.

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I see the thief hath been hit with nerf bat... thanks!

Th rest of these changes look pretty good. I looked forward to the officer nerf, as they made shotguns look kind of weak

Great job on the igla model. looks really cool. 

Best change IMO: BIGGER MAMY. 

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37 minutes ago, Death_Kitty said:

I see the thief hath been hit with nerf bat... thanks!

Th rest of these changes look pretty good. I looked forward to the officer nerf, as they made shotguns look kind of weak

Great job on the igla model. looks really cool. 

Best change IMO: BIGGER MAMY. 

Yes, the bigger MMT excites me. 

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12 hours ago, Pushwall said:
  • Grenadier now has a proper model for his 9K32 Strela-2 anti-air rocket launcher, made and textured by Furs with texturing refinements by Chaos_Knight!

Image6.png

Hey @Furs, check it out. :p

And thanks @Chaos_Knight !

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2 minutes ago, Furs said:

Всегда пожалуйста )
I wanted to see Strela in the game for a while now, so when you contributed that model, and the only issue was texture... Heh, well, I have experience with texturing, let's put it that way.

However, I have to admit that I am very rusty and it's not the best I could do really. Let's say I have a lot to remember how to :v 

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3.1.1.2 is going up on the launcher soon, here's what's up.

Shock_Trooper.gif Shock Trooper

  • Direct damage to infantry down (25/2sec -> 20/2sec)

pt_al_sergeant.pngpt_so_starshina.png Shotgunners

  • Dragonsbreath damage to mines up (0.75 -> 1)

Volkov.gif Volkov

  • Is now properly protected against splash damage by the same amount that an armoured infantryman is (this was mistakenly missing before)

Mobile_Artillery.gifV2.gif Artilleries

  • Artillery splash radius down (18 -> 16)
  • V2 splash radius down (25 -> 22.5)
  • Artillery/V2 splash damage multiplier to mines up (1 -> 1.125) so this doesn't hurt their minesweeping

APC.gifRanger.gif Technicals

  • Inaccuracy up (0.25 -> 0.5)

Tesla_Tank.gif Tesla Tank

  • Direct damage to infantry down (40/4sec -> 30/4sec)

Airfield.png Airfield

  • Added a ladder connecting the rooftop to the MCT room; however it is blocked by a Soviet-locked door.
  • Rooftop is now lined by rails.
  • Added damage/death effects.
  • Applied a different brick texture to the base of the tower.
  • Repairs Yaks twice as fast.

RA_GuardDuty

  • Removed long-route Pillbox and Flame Tower.
  • Vehicles pouring into Soviet base ref side are now funneled by more barbed wire in front of the refinery and a rock behind it.
  • Soviet north mountain pass is now blocked off.
  • Moved Turret slightly further forward, giving it a little more coverage but making it harder to repair.
  • Now has proper sunlight and shading. (This was previously prevented by the bridge, which is now part of the terrain since it can't be destroyed anyway.)

RA_LunarParadox

  • Fixed a bunch of unit behaviour inconsistencies compared to normal gameplay that were caused by recent patches (for example, infantry armour not working)
  • Mine Bomber has larger projectile extensions.
  • Airsub reload time down from 1.5 to 1 second.
  • Wreckanic wrench now fires a shotgun blast of hitboxes instead of only one perfectly accurate one.
  • Shock Prod and Wreckanic have much lower jumping penalties.
  • LPD Sergeant model uses the updated hitboxes.
  • Pimpin' Ranger now moves at a much greater speed (unquantifiable with a number since its desire to wheelie causes its speed to fluctuate a lot, but suffice to say it's a very noticeable increase)
  • Pimpin' Ranger wheelieing reduced - it's still there but it should be harder to flip now
  • Pimpin' Ranger HP up (300 -> 450), but armour removed
  • Supply Tank also moves much faster (10.22 -> 14m/s), a ~37% increase
  • Supply Tank actually has splash damage now! Not much though.
  • Land LST's HP up (500 -> 675)
  • Armoured Personnel Container's armour improved (heavy -> mammoth)
  • Propmobile's HP up (250 -> 500)
  • All in all, transport vehicles should be a much more credible threat now.

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19 hours ago, Pushwall said:

Airfield.png Airfield

  • Added a ladder connecting the rooftop to the MCT room; however it is blocked by a Soviet-locked door.

I'd like to note that I don't really see a reason for it to be soviet locked, it could just be a regular door but anyway that's minor and not particularly important.

 

I haven't got round to testing all the finer tweaks so far but regarding the things I use the most I have stuff to say.:words:

Allied Riflemen Tri-shot is not really feasible for fighting anymore, the fire rate is too slow,  don't bother with it against buildings or vehicles your just hurting your dps immensely so maybe close range combat is where it's at? Well.. no, Tri-shot fire rate is slower than a Sergeants Slug/Dragons Breath fire rate and its worse for sniping as Tri Shot has higher inaccuracy and it does less damage against all targets Compared to the slug, so compared to this similar alt fire we can see its inferior in every way, but it gets even more embarrassing when compared to M16's regular fire, as mentioned already dps is much lower and it is less accurate so maybe it's use would be some kind of high alpha strike while your opponent is unaware of your presence? however again its outclassed by regular fire, you could simply tap your mouse and fire 3 shots to achieve the same thing and you wont have that 2 second quasi reload to deal with, but in stead of limiting yourself to 3 you can hold down the trigger and hit them with maybe 6 or 7 before they react (unless your fighting Totd... :argh:Totd  wouldn't let you sneak up on him). So it's only useful if you get a head shot with all 3 bullets killing the fool instantly, but then again if you got head shots with all 7 bullets you'd again be better off because you arnt always going to be fighting technicians and other riflemen and more damage in a smaller space of time is always better.

 

So in short, old fire rate was better and I actually found myself using it a lot and occasionally i'd see other players use it but now no one uses it and it feels a little pointless when there are other options :sigh:

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3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

don't bother with it against buildings or vehicles your just hurting your dps immensely

Which is precisely how it's been for the past forever. I've never seen a reason to spend valuable armor.ini space on a special warhead to give the trishot equal DPS to the primary vs buildings/vehicles, because in the past I have never seen people attempt to use the trishot against them - I suppose this is because the lower ROF tells people enough. Compare with the AK-47 where back before Delta, I always saw newbies try to use its rapid secondary fire against buildings and vehicles, even though it did absolutely no damage to hard targets back then (or close enough - it took like a whole magazine to do 1 HP of damage which you could have done with a single primary bullet) and that was pretty clear after firing a whole magazine and yet these people just kept on doing it, so it needed the equalising warhead more.

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

so maybe close range combat is where it's at? Well.. no,

That's the Soviet rifleman's forte.

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

and its worse for sniping

With 90m range compared to the slug's 60?

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

slower than a Sergeants Slug/Dragons Breath fire rate

Equal. And has 2 more uses per magazine and reloads faster.

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

high alpha strike while your opponent is unaware of your presence? however again its outclassed by regular fire, you could simply tap your mouse and fire 3 shots to achieve the same thing and you wont have that 2 second quasi reload to deal with

But then you have to deal with the higher inaccuracy. Crouch + trishot = zero inaccuracy. Crouch + primary = you might still miss at long range.

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

and it feels a little pointless when there are other options :sigh:

...that cost money.

Really the whole point is that the trishot is intentionally not that great because part of the point of the overhaul was to make infantry more expensive to counter. The rifle soldiers were just too good before and that is part of why infantry rushing didn't work that well: enemies instantly respawn as a surprisingly powerful class. Hence their general accuracy got hurt, forcing them to crouch if they want reliable headshots, and the trishot is an extremely niche mode. Want better sniping tools? Go spend $200 on a sergeant if you're fine with being constrained to pistol range, $300 on a captain if you can be sure you won't get multi-headshotted when you try to use the machinegun's crouch-snipe functionality, or $650 on a sniper, but then be prepared to spend longer waiting for the vehicle/high-end infantry that you want. What I should have done too is make the AK's secondary more inaccurate so it's also not as good. But yeah you're right, I hit the trishot too hard.

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

I'd like to note that I don't really see a reason for it to be soviet locked, it could just be a regular door but anyway that's minor and not particularly important.

Because Allies have an easy enough time getting inside as it is and the Soviet team's brains just seem to completely shut down whenever a single member of the Allies makes it inside?

And also because if the Airfield ever makes it onto other maps, particularly TL5 maps, Tanyas could just gg ez the Airfield by losing/ejecting a longbow over the tower and completely avoiding mines if the roof door was unlocked? This was an issue with the Refinery back in 2015 testing when it had a rooftop<->interior access, because it didn't have a door at all (or room for one), and while that also had the additional concern of thieves using that access route for the same thing, the Airfield roof is a much easier target to land on and its entrances are easier for a Tanya to camp than the Refinery stairs.

Granted, spies can circumvent the lock for her, but that's using extra manpower that lets the Soviets rush better, and also gives spies something semi-useful to do.

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2 hours ago, Pushwall said:

...that cost money.

Other options that cost money yes, but you said it yourself you want to make countering infantry more expensive? You are acknowledging that players can't just buy a new class whenever they need it however you nerf the free stuff...

 It is effectively making players buy better infantry in order to fight off rushes you agree? because stock soldiers wont do, so now instead of 5 riflemen to counter your rush you have a mix of sergeants and captains and they are going to put a stop to the rush a lot faster lowering infantry rush success rate further. I understand the problem at hand, basic infantry are good, really good but I feel their ultimate effectiveness comes down to the people using it, we have loads of players who have fended off infantry rushes in this game for years and we have players who only joined a week ago, if Voe runs in with a rifleman or even an Engi you can expect a decent fight, if Newplaye42 runs in he will get gunned down quickly, skill has a large factor here

Really the whole point is that the trishot is intentionally not that great because part of the point of the overhaul was to make infantry more expensive to counter. The rifle soldiers were just too good before and that is part of why infantry rushing didn't work that well: enemies instantly respawn as a surprisingly powerful class. Hence their general accuracy got hurt, forcing them to crouch if they want reliable headshots, and the trishot is an extremely niche mode.

Alright but fair enough you know the details and stats of guns that I do not, but what are these circumstances where making the tri-shot worse helps enemy infantry rushes? Making snipers cost more I understand, it means the rush can't be stopped dead in its tracks so easily from so far away without a cost, however a lot of infantry rushes come down to being in doors up close and personal with 7 people all hopping around the barracks/power-plant/radar-dome ect shooting at each other and you respawn in the midst of this as a riflemen, tri shot will not be the deciding factor here, that comes down to damage per second that can be output onto the enemy and the players ability to hold the mouse on target.

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35 minutes ago, NoSpoons said:

so now instead of 5 riflemen to counter your rush you have a mix of sergeants and captains and they are going to put a stop to the rush a lot faster lowering infantry rush success rate further.

And then they've spent money to counter your rush. This is especially important in the early stages of a game where you can't afford a captain and an MBT at the same time. Beforehand, they could more easily get away with countering with rifles only and then they'd be able to get more tanks than you.

35 minutes ago, NoSpoons said:

however a lot of infantry rushes come down to being in doors up close and personal with 7 people all hopping around the barracks/power-plant/radar-dome ect shooting at each other and you respawn in the midst of this as a riflemen, tri shot will not be the deciding factor here, 

which is why I said I'd also be nerfing the AK-47's full auto.

Infantry rushes don't always involve going into buildings though - trishot's purpose is sniping grenadiers/kapitans/flamethrowers or even other rifles that are trying to poke your defenses/SD from afar. (And the only one of those that doesn't die to a trishot headshot is the kapitan.) Which yes, it really doesn't need to be this bad at it when the AK's full auto is so good at its niche in addition to said niche being more relevant, so the ROF and accuracy are going up a little.

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15 hours ago, Pushwall said:

And then they've spent money to counter your rush. This is especially important in the early stages of a game where you can't afford a captain and an MBT at the same time. Beforehand, they could more easily get away with countering with rifles only and then they'd be able to get more tanks than you.

Alright I understand the outcome here but then wouldn't a system of this nature inherently benefit the allies who have cheaper vehicle options? as they might be able to get those early light tanks out due to its lower price than Soviet Heavies?So the initiative might be given to the allies with this meaning we could start to see Soviets losing structures and defences more often to early rushes. Yes soviets can counter with RPGs but that's only thinning their bank account further or it could be that they will recover quickly enough that the allies will have to face tanks as well with the next attack? Anyway that's all hypothetical that need to be observed

15 hours ago, Pushwall said:

Infantry rushes don't always involve going into buildings though - trishot's purpose is sniping grenadiers/kapitans/flamethrowers or even other rifles that are trying to poke your defenses/SD from afar. (And the only one of those that doesn't die to a trishot headshot is the kapitan.) Which yes, it really doesn't need to be this bad at it when the AK's full auto is so good at its niche in addition to said niche being more relevant, so the ROF and accuracy are going up a little.

Alright well yes, I don't have anything to say as opposition to this

 

Regarding the current issues we have with the medic unit, I've had a look into a few other games and their medic implementation and there are a few systems that are quite common, the first and most common is an AOE heal that well... heals everyone for a large burst of HP but it has a longish cool down, so the medic character has the freedom to pull out a weapon and fight for a while, they can then heal again when the cool down is done, the long cool down gives the opposing side enough time to either finish of the medic or the soldiers being healed, this also means the medic needs time time his heals well in order to be effective, the medics weapons are generally ok but they have smaller clip sizes so they cant just mow down incoming infantry and would be at a slight disadvantage to regular infantry should they 1v1 in the open.

The second one that's becoming very popular is a Mercy style single target heal, where they can heal a single target very well but will need to micromanage a larger force, in these systems the medic usually has a gun of equal strength to other units or classes however it is up to them to decide if they should prioritize healing or combat. These systems usually implement a slow self heal passive.

Most other systems that attempt to be realistic require the medic and the person being healed to not be under fire, and I don't really need to go into this as it is pretty clear that wont suite the style of combat we have.

I do not know all the different iterations of medics we have had over the years nor do I know how effective they have been but of all the systems I have read up about and seen in action I feel the first one may work best for us, maybe there is something from these systems we can borrow? I'm not sure but hopefully this can be of help

EDIT: I Dint see the forum dedicated to this topic lmao

Edited by NoSpoons

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Another minipatch 3.1.1.3 is on the way.

General

  • All small-arms damage to mines up (SMG/Rifles 0.375 -> 0.6, LMGs 0.75 -> 0.9, shotgun primary/HMGs 1 -> 1.2)
  • Fixed infantry cash rewards that weren't updated to reflect new prices.

Medic.gif Medic

  • Health down (100 -> 75)
  • Now recovers 3 HP per second even while in combat. This does not speed up when out of combat, however.
  • Gradual healing duration up (5 -> 6 seconds)
  • Now has a secondary fire mode for the Medic Kit, which provides an instant full heal to all teammates in normal healing range (except himself as usual). However, he only gets ONE shot of this (unless he refills at a PCT/supply truck), it doesn't trigger the gradual heal effect, and it causes a 5-second reload on his medic kit which he must wait out with it equipped before he's able to use his gradual heal again.
  • Gradual healing no longer affects other Medics (don't mind the healing effect being visible on the character for a split second, it's not real). The only way Medics can heal each other now is through their one-shot burst heal, so having 2 medics is not COMPLETELY useless, but they still can't last forever like before.

pt_al_officer.pngpt_so_officer.png Officers

  • Bullets no longer pierce a character once.

Rifle_Soldier.gifpt_so_rifle.png Rifle Soldiers

  • M16 trishot ROF up (1 -> 1.5)
  • M16 trishot standing/jogging inaccuracy down (0.5 -> 0.25)
  • AK-47 sprayshot inaccuracy up (2.75 -> 3.75)

Tanya.gif Tanya

  • Damage down (30 -> 25)

Mobile_Artillery.gifV2.gif Artilleries

  • Splash armour penetration down (50% -> 37.5%)
  • Splash burn damage upgraded to flamethrower/nuke "slow burn" (7.5 damage over 10 seconds instead of 2.5 over 1)

Gunboat.gif Gunboat

  • Cannon no longer causes damage to submerged subs; use the depth charges for this.
  • Depth charge now has an artificial range limit of about 150m before the charge explodes; this is about as far as it was able to go before the cannon was able to hit low-flying aircraft, but that change allowed its depth charges to travel as far as sniper bullets...

Mine_Layer.gif Minelayer

  • AP mine damage down (600 -> 160)
  • AP mine splash radius down (8 -> 6.5)
  • AP mine splash now has no distance dropoff just like AT mines, so there should be absolutely no more instances of things like Tanyas surviving mines on single-digit HP.

Yak.png Yak

  • Range up (110 -> 120m)

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 finally, we get a new weapon but will we get another new handheld weapon for the Allies or is it new idk but  I mean like  changing the m72 law for a new rocket launcher like maybe the FGM-148 Javelin launcher wait didn't they have in the beta of APB or gamma but I like the new Strella if it's a new design or a  new rocket launcher I still like it. oh and I just came back from my trip to Panama 

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13 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

FGM-148 Javelin launcher

 

13 hours ago, Wikipedia said:

In service: 1996–present

Ehhhhhhh nope.

13 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

wait didn't they have in the beta of APB

It was the FIM-92 Stinger, which wouldn't make much sense as a LAW replacement because it's known to be an anti-aircraft weapon, plus the Destroyer uses Stinger missiles and a rocket soldier with what is essentially a single-tube Destroyer weapon would be far too overpowered. Hence the old man-portable Stinger model is relegated to being a rare crate weapon on Hostile Waters and deathmatch maps.

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12 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

 finally, we get a new weapon but will we get another new handheld weapon for the Allies or is it new idk but  I mean like  changing the m72 law for a new rocket launcher like maybe the FGM-148 Javelin launcher wait didn't they have in the beta of APB or gamma but I like the new Strella if it's a new design or a  new rocket launcher I still like it. oh and I just came back from my trip to Panama 

The Strela model (the Soviet equivalent of the Redeye back in their day) is a really nice addition indeed :)

Regarding new weapons, the Rocket Soldier is listed as using an M72 in RA1, and something like the Javelin would be far too modern for the setting. If any weapons got changed it would be more appropriate if anything to use older predecessor weapons whenever possible rather than more modern successors. In the case of the Allies, it would also make sense to give preference to European weapons unless specifically identified as otherwise in RA

The weapon you're thinking of from early builds of APB is the Stinger launcher, a 1970's-era anti-air missile launcher. It's shown in a Tiberian Dawn cutscene (presumably used by Nod) shooting down a helicopter.

Also, welcome back! :D

EDIT: Looks like Pushwall beat me to the punch:v

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45 minutes ago, Ice said:

It's shown in a Tiberian Dawn cutscene (presumably used by Nod) shooting down a helicopter.

And in that cinematic it's equipped with a cool looking digital targeting system.

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On 6/7/2017 at 10:22 PM, Ice said:

The Strela model (the Soviet equivalent of the Redeye back in their day) is a really nice addition indeed :)

Regarding new weapons, the Rocket Soldier is listed as using an M72 in RA1, and something like the Javelin would be far too modern for the setting. If any weapons got changed it would be more appropriate if anything to use older predecessor weapons whenever possible rather than more modern successors. In the case of the Allies, it would also make sense to give preference to European weapons unless specifically identified as otherwise in RA

The weapon you're thinking of from early builds of APB is the Stinger launcher, a 1970's-era anti-air missile launcher. It's shown in a Tiberian Dawn cutscene (presumably used by Nod) shooting down a helicopter.

Also, welcome back! :D

EDIT: Looks like Pushwall beat me to the punch:v

thanks but it doesn't have to be like ra1 I mean you can put a bazooka in APB for all I care. I mean you could make a system were you could buy wepons in the game.

Edited by thedisclaimitory

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18 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

thanks but it doesn't have to be like ra1 I mean you can put a bazooka in APB for all I care. I mean you could make a system were you could buy wepons in the game.

If you don't like the RA-lism go play a different game that has the weapon you want. Putting modern era technology in a WW1-era game is just weird. It's like CoD's "new" WW2 game that did without the swastikas and has too much diversity for its' time.

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2 minutes ago, Jeod said:

If you don't like the RA-lism go play a different game that has the weapon you want. Putting modern era technology in a WW1-era game is just weird.

ahhhhh... WW1 era eh? well wheres my biplane and bathtub tanks? :p

but in all honesty, you cant put tech from 2002-20xx into a game that takes place in the WWII-Cold War eras.... 1 it would ruin the immersion of all the RAlistic elitists such as myself, 2. You would break the game balance, and 3.... Would a Javelin really fit in a game like this? I say give the Davey Crockett weapon to all Nod troops.

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4 hours ago, MPRA2 said:

ahhhhh... WW1 era eh? well wheres my biplane and bathtub tanks? :p

but in all honesty, you cant put tech from 2002-20xx into a game that takes place in the WWII-Cold War eras.... 1 it would ruin the immersion of all the RAlistic elitists such as myself, 2. You would break the game balance, and 3.... Would a Javelin really fit in a game like this? I say give the Davey Crockett weapon to all Nod troops.

Lol aye it's like what black ops did with advanced warfare they put ww2  people with futuristic wepons with ww2 stuff maps with sifi I kinda like it but att the same time despise it because it's weird with advanced stuff and what not. and did they really  have tub  looking tanks in ww2 if your talking about the box tanks they had the whatever 

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On 6/7/2017 at 10:22 PM, Pushwall said:

 

Ehhhhhhh nope.

It was the FIM-92 Stinger, which wouldn't make much sense as a LAW replacement because it's known to be an anti-aircraft weapon, plus the Destroyer uses Stinger missiles and a rocket soldier with what is essentially a single-tube Destroyer weapon would be far too overpowered. Hence the old man-portable Stinger model is relegated to being a rare crate weapon on Hostile Waters and deathmatch maps.

 what about a bazooka I think they used bazookas in the Korean war, yeah they didn't have m72 laws  Korean war or was it the war with china I'm pretty sure the bazooka was in the war with China. but anyways you could have the bazooka in RA  apb it was in the early cold war.

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19 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

 what about a bazooka I think they used bazookas in the Korean war, yeah they didn't have m72 laws  Korean war or was it the war with china I'm pretty sure the bazooka was in the war with China. but anyways you could have the bazooka in RA  apb it was in the early cold war.

Red Alert isn't the Korean War or early Cold War though.

The sidebar icon for the rocket soldier in Red Alert shows him using an M72 LAW, which is probably why the old APB artists made an M72 LAW for him. I don't entirely agree with it since it's a disposable launcher whereas the Soviets' RPG-7 isn't, but we have to work with it because it's all we have. Any work towards a new launcher means that work on anything else is being delayed (and I'm not sure if ChopBam would be up to the task either), unless someone from the community provides the launcher like Furs and Chaos_Knight did with the Strela.

Red Alert's manual and internal data files tell a different story though, they say he's using the M47 Dragon. Which is the Javelin's ancestor!

If I were to see the Rocket Soldier get a new weapon, what I'd like to see is either:

  • the M47 Dragon - true to RA, and lets us ditch the oddity of a disposable launcher that is fired infinitely, but it looks a bit silly.
  • Some European anti-tank weapon from around or before the time of the Dragon (Ice previously suggested to me the Belgian RL-83 Blindicide) - to help provide a bit of national variety befitting the Allies. For a force that consists mostly of soldiers of European nations, they sure seem to have a short supply of European weapons on their side. Right now it's just the Italian Beretta pistol, British Lee-Enfield sniper rifle and German MP5 submachine gun - their 6 other weapons are all American and I'm not even counting the Stinger that isn't a proper part of the game! A plus to the RL-83 Blindicide specifically is that we may even be able to make its face shield act as more than just a visual novelty, and make it actually shield the RS from frontal headshots while it's equipped.

Whatever happens, the RS getting a proper non-disposable launcher would open up an avenue for allowing every other soldier to either purchase or start with an M72 LAW that only gets 1 ammo. Which would allow us to make bullets less effective against tanks without actually nerfing infantry, and give Supply Trucks more presence since they could provide LAW refills!

But again, this all can't happen if we don't get a model. So don't hold your breath.

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