Games [Danubian Federation Victory] Ausgleich '37

[Shade939]

Just now, Retaliation said:

Rolecop of some sort?

Either that or Masonry.

[Nodlied]

10 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

I'd say two opposed town groups are a given in this setup, but want to know something interesting?  Remember how we theorized 'soft' options were safe for the tension meter, and 'radical' options would destabilize things?

I used the evidence base last night to observe Jeod's voting pattern.  He voted for a radical option.

##investigate Jeod

 

10 hours ago, Retaliation said:

I can get behind that

##investigate Jeod

 

9 hours ago, Shade939 said:

To be fair, that's kinda the reason I would want to investigate him now.

##VoteInvestigate TheIrishman

 

7 hours ago, Jeod said:

Smells like a rat with an elaborate cover story. Why would there be a medkit in the vault?

##investigate TheIrishMan

 

7 hours ago, Retaliation said:

I trusted you Irish. I trusted you like a complete stranger which is more than I'll trust FRAYDO, but I still trusted you.

##investigate irish

 

[Category 5 Hurricane]

TheIrishman, given that you took the Medkit that you didn't tell anyone about, weren't you concerned that OrangeP47 would call you out for lying about it? At the time you didn't know he couldn't access the vault.

[FRAYDO]

Check-in for today. Will be away at work until late evening.

[OrangeP47]

You know, the biggest shame is this plan is one that kinda requires secrecy to work, and now that's out the window, AND Irish has a big target on his back.

[Jeod]

4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

You know, the biggest shame is this plan is one that kinda requires secrecy to work, and now that's out the window, AND Irish has a big target on his back.

Did I miss something? What plan? As far as I can tell, Irish is scum because he hasn't made any charts.

[OrangeP47]

Indeed, now that I think about it, it might actually be better for you to pass the Medkit to someone else Irish, so that you yourself just don't draw the nightkill as the doc.  I believe it's been said that passing is a free action.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Jeod said:

Did I miss something? What plan? As far as I can tell, Irish is scum because he hasn't made any charts.

Ironic, cause in a recent game here, Cat 5 made a chart as scum, and in my mafia championship game scum made a chart there too.  Scum are catching on to the ways of chart making

[Jeod]

Joking aside, I'm just now waking up and reading through the recent discussions more thoroughly. I do have a question for those of you who are familiar with this setting. What nationalities do you think could become or are hostile-aligned?

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Jeod said:

Joking aside, I'm just now waking up and reading through the recent discussions more thoroughly. I do have a question for those of you who are familiar with this setting. What nationalities do you think could become or are hostile-aligned?

Initially my suspicions were that Bohemians, Croats, Bosnians, (possibly grouped together as Illyrians here) Poles, Ukrainians (Possibly grouped together as Galicians here) would be more likely to want independence.  However, as of yesterday, with thinking about you, I realized Hungarians might want Independence too.  Really, it could be anybody except Austrians most likely.

[TheIrishman]

3 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

TheIrishman, given that you took the Medkit that you didn't tell anyone about, weren't you concerned that OrangeP47 would call you out for lying about it? At the time you didn't know he couldn't access the vault.

I already mentioned that I thought he'd cover for me because it was a medkit. Pointing it out would've been helpful too though because then I'd suspect him as Scum. And I never said the medkit makes me a doctor, just that I thought it would. And you're acting as if I'm not able to trap myself (pretty sure I can since Nodlied never answered my question and it makes sense to be able to with how the action works). Scum are welcome to try and kill me.

[Jeod]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Initially my suspicions were that Bohemians, Croats, Bosnians, (possibly grouped together as Illyrians here) Poles, Ukrainians (Possibly grouped together as Galicians here) would be more likely to want independence.  However, as of yesterday, with thinking about you, I realized Hungarians might want Independence too.  Really, it could be anybody except Austrians most likely.

So you think I'm Hungarian? Interesting. My take on the scenario is that since Austria has emerged as a political power, that some nationalities would want annexation or at least an alliance to prevent other nations from taking them over. For example, Galicia was initially taken by Poland. I suppose an alliance in that example is the same as wanting independence, however. Sorting through which nationalities we should suspect as hostile won't be as easy as you might think, and it makes for fantastic discussion and scumhunting material.

[OrangeP47]

7 minutes ago, Jeod said:

So you think I'm Hungarian? Interesting. My take on the scenario is that since Austria has emerged as a political power, that some nationalities would want annexation or at least an alliance to prevent other nations from taking them over. For example, Galicia was initially taken by Poland. I suppose an alliance in that example is the same as wanting independence, however. Sorting through which nationalities we should suspect as hostile won't be as easy as you might think, and it makes for fantastic discussion and scumhunting material.

In this universe, all these places are ruled by the Kaiser already.  Austria and Hungary both have political representation below the Kaiser.  Status quo is keeping it this way, whereas Pluralism is letting everyone have representation under the Kaiser.  Independence is throwing off the Kaiser entirely.

[Jeod]

4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

In this universe, all these places are ruled by the Kaiser already.  Austria and Hungary both have political representation below the Kaiser.  Status quo is keeping it this way, whereas Pluralism is letting everyone have representation under the Kaiser.  Independence is throwing off the Kaiser entirely.

Well, yes, but that doesn't discount my opinion of the matter. If you were trying to counter my stance, please clarify.

[Jeod]

Essentially, it's simply an effort to determine which nationalities would have which combination of primary and secondary goals.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Well given that there were 4 choices in the reform, I think it would be safe to imagine that there are 4 factions. There wouldn't be a point for 4 options if one of them wouldn't be beneficial to anybody.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Jeod said:

Well, yes, but that doesn't discount my opinion of the matter. If you were trying to counter my stance, please clarify.

I'm saying Poland proper doesn't factor into this, and it's not so much about alliances.  It's more about people being under the heel and if they want to rise up or not, peacefully or violently.

[Jeod]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

I'm saying Poland proper doesn't factor into this, and it's not so much about alliances.  It's more about people being under the heel and if they want to rise up or not, peacefully or violently.

Perhaps I'm taking too much detail into the game?

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Well given that there were 4 choices in the reform, I think it would be safe to imagine that there are 4 factions. There wouldn't be a point for 4 options if one of them wouldn't be beneficial to anybody.

Doing a political compass with civil war vs reform and status quo vs pluralism gives us for factions.  However, there's also those who want independence, and a rumor of a syndicalist, so I'd say we have more than 4 factions actually.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Jeod said:

Perhaps I'm taking too much detail into the game?

You're not doing anything wrong as far as playing the game goes, I just want to be an accurate lore master. I'm a contributor to the Kaiserreich project, so I feel a need to spread the word about it.

[Jeod]

10 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

You're not doing anything wrong as far as playing the game goes, I just want to be an accurate lore master. I'm a contributor to the Kaiserreich project, so I feel a need to spread the word about it.

I mean this game. I'd considered that I may be adding too much detail to the meaning behind each nationality's goals.

[Shade939]

On 7/15/2018 at 6:59 AM, Nodlied said:

Known Objectives

 

Your objective is linked to your role’s vision of the Empire. There are three different possibilities, each of them linked with a secondary one.
1. Primary Goal: This is your role’s vision of the Empire. Achieving this goal will win you the game.
- Pluralism: The idea to reform the Empire into a Danubian Monarchy in which the different states are all equal.
- Status Quo: The idea to retain the Dual Monarchy of Austria-Hungary in which the Austrians and Hungarians are equal above all others.
- Abolishment: The idea to abolish the Empire and divide it into multiple independent sovereign states.

2. Secondary Goal: This is your role’s idea on how to best achieve their goal. Achieving your goal this way will add a +1 to your victory score.
- Reform: Your role intends to achieve their vision through reform.
- War: Your role intends to achieve their vision a bit quicker by winning a civil war.
- By any means necessary: Congrats, you have it a bit easier.

 

Since whether you get a bonus point from a civil war or not is a secondary goal, it does not meant you will lose the game for pursuing or avoiding it and therefore shouldn't be used to divide players into factions.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Jeod said:

I mean this game. I'd considered that I may be adding too much detail to the meaning behind each nationality's goals.

No, it's a valid approach.  I don't think we have enough data at this point to say for sure.  I think also Nodlied probably made some tricky combos just to throw us off.  Analyizing Nationality for goals is just another tool.

Just now, Shade939 said:

Since whether you get a bonus point from a civil war or not is a secondary goal, it does not meant you will lose the game for pursuing or avoiding it and therefore shouldn't be used to divide players into factions.

I'm less concerned with factions and more concerned with motive forces.  People who want to win via civil war are not going to be pulling in the same direction as those who want reform.  Your thinking is too 2D. Besides, I'll say it again, when it comes to winning, go big or go home

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I think the fact that Shade is trying to position his argument that it doesn't matter what the secondary objective is, means he is one of the people who wants Civil War. He's tryng to protect himself by pushing that argument in advance.

[Shade939]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I think the fact that Shade is trying to position his argument that it doesn't matter what the secondary objective is, means he is one of the people who wants Civil War. He's tryng to protect himself by pushing that argument in advance.

Or perhaps I'm actually actually willing to work alongside my party to regardless of whether they want a civil war or not...

[OrangeP47]

To be fair, "any means necessary" was listed as a possible secondary.  If Shade has that, my advice to him (which is really advice he needs all the time), is to take a class on subtlety.  You should take opportunities as they come, rather than trying to force the issue yourself.

[Shade939]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

To be fair, "any means necessary" was listed as a possible secondary.  If Shade has that, my advice to him (which is really advice he needs all the time), is to take a class on subtlety.  You should take opportunities as they come, rather than trying to force the issue yourself.

To be fair Orange, I'm not the player alienating anyone who might be a radical member of my party who I might need their help to win the game.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

In Kaiserreich, Civil War doesn't usually actually work out well for the countries involved. It's hard to be prepared for the oncoming second Weltkrieg if you've busy repairing and reinforcing from your Civil War, assuming you managed to complete your own war in time. Civil Wars make it easier for your later opponents.

Motives for actually wanting a Civil War would include:

1) Can't get the government type you want without it

2) And extension of 1, if you want to change which faction you join in the Weltkreig

3) You are from a country that would expect to gain from the Empire failing.

[Sunflower]

It might be a good idea to keep in mind that nationalities aren't monolithic. They're composed of individuals and those individuals don't always agree on what's best for everyone.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Yeah, I'm not sure nationality will be a good indicator, unless we find people that are from outside the Empire. If we find people from France, Britain, or Italy, for example, I think those should be considered a threat by default.