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Coolrock

Soviet MiG 29

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I imagine when you asked Sir Phoenix for a MiG model, his first reaction most likely was an assumption that the unreal engine switch actually happened.

Back in 1977, airplanes in W3D became the front-line meme (in a time before memes were memes) for "nice things we will never get, because reasons".

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13 minutes ago, Raap said:

I imagine when you asked Sir Phoenix for a MiG model, his first reaction most likely was an assumption that the unreal engine switch actually happened.

Back in 1977, airplanes in W3D became the front-line meme (in a time before memes were memes) for "nice things we will never get, because reasons".

He was actually very surprised when I asked for it. He was still around when we decided not to switch engines. Things just got lost over time. 

Funny enough, if you check his deviantart page, he talks about the MiG, Yak, and Badger Bomber being all beacon based since it’s “not possible” to have them be flown on the W3D engine. Boy, did we prove everyone wrong! :v

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11 hours ago, Coolrock said:

Funny enough, if you check his deviantart page, he talks about the MiG, Yak, and Badger Bomber being all beacon based since it’s “not possible” to have them be flown on the W3D engine. Boy, did we prove everyone wrong! :v

It's the most satisfying feeling witnessing things like this. Pushing the W3D engine's boundaries and making the impossible possible. The team here really does amazing work.

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So? Goal is? you fire missiles and have to return to the airfield to reload?

Still shocked what you guys managed to pull off with the engine. Maybe i'm out of the loop, but what causes this to be possible? Is it the scripts 2.0 or something, or am i too old?

Edited by Bayonetta

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Wait so does the MiG exist in the game code right now? Can the admins spawn them for us to play around with the next time we have one of those "just screwin' around" sessions? :dance:

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Wonderful guys, just wondreful. I really thank the dev team for bringing my childhood favorite game to life here.

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12 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

It's the most satisfying feeling witnessing things like this. Pushing the W3D engine's boundaries and making the impossible possible. The team here really does amazing work.

The game has come a long way. I can't imagine how the reactions would've been years ago from people who said it couldn't be done.

7 hours ago, Bayonetta said:

So? Goal is? you fire missiles and have to return to the airfield to reload?

Still shocked what you guys managed to pull off with the engine. Maybe i'm out of the loop, but what causes this to be possible? Is it the scripts 2.0 or something, or am i too old?

Exactly like it was in Red Alert. It's main purpose would be a hard counter to the Allied Cruiser once that's in-game (?).

As far as how it's possible, @Pushwallwould probably be the person to explain that.

7 hours ago, delta said:

Wait so does the MiG exist in the game code right now? Can the admins spawn them for us to play around with the next time we have one of those "just screwin' around" sessions? :dance:

A few nights ago, Silverlight had actually spawned a few for players to try out. You'll have to bug him next time you see him in a not-so-serious match :v

1 hour ago, des1206 said:

Wonderful guys, just wondreful. I really thank the dev team for bringing my childhood favorite game to life here.

The kind words go a long way. It means a lot to the team, I promise :)

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21 hours ago, Bayonetta said:

Still shocked what you guys managed to pull off with the engine. Maybe i'm out of the loop, but what causes this to be possible? Is it the scripts 2.0 or something, or am i too old?

I guess you are out of the loop if you never reacted like this to the Yak. :v

14 hours ago, Coolrock said:

As far as how it's possible, @Pushwallwould probably be the person to explain that.

Not really, I just do the balance and ask the scripts team to make me something that works, I wouldn't know how it works :v A little history though?

Around mid 2016, we received the assets for the Yak and Airfield (I think Generalcamo found them for us?), and I just lamented that we probably would never have the means to properly implement them anyway and so just left them on the sidelines, only reaching for the Yak again when Lunar Paradox was underway so that people could use a unit that was effectively the Gamma Hind but with an asset unused in the base game.

But around the time I released Lunar Paradox (April 2017), I also saw Jerad adding some scripts (most likely intended for ECW) to the scripts project to trigger events if a unit's speed/velocity crosses a certain threshold. That got me thinking, and so 2 months later, you all got the lame duck Yak that was just a VTOL that died if you didn't try to fly it like a plane, and was a fantastic unit in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing, but was a complete turnoff for newbies.

It wasn't until a year later - this June - that Romanov stepped up amidst my occasional lamentations about "what if we could have cruise control" and, out of nowhere, delivered us cruise control :biggrin: With a bit of brainstorming the cruise control concept evolved to also prevent planes from ascending like a VTOL while on the runway, prevent planes strafing sideways like a VTOL, and ensure a smooth transition in control schemes between taxi mode and cruise mode - all combining to give us planes that are forced to fly (somewhat) like a plane. With the removal of all the methods of killing yourself that shouldn't really exist, they are now significantly newbie-proofed, even more so now that the Yak has been shrunk down to its real-world size, making it harder to crash.

A few weeks ago, Coolrock hooked me up with Sir Phoenix's MiG model, and here we are. Of course, ever since the Yak first made it in, the MiG had always been on my radar - we just didn't have the proper assets for it. And until Siege was cleared for planes, we didn't have a map for it either (Guard Duty isn't the appropriate tech level). There was a placeholder model sitting around in case I ever had the spare time to properly prototype out the unit behaviour (which I never did) - and some astute people may have seen that placeholder in certain videos posted by modders - but a placeholder just wouldn't cut it for a public release of course. The MiG is a little bigger than the Yak, but you can still fit two side by side on the Airfield, so runway traffic is still significantly reduced compared to the days of jumbo Yaks.

About the only future refinement to planes I could hope for is having them pitch appropriately when climbing and diving, instead of staying completely level at all times, but they work well enough without that - it'd be more of an aesthetic refinement than anything.

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if you guys did not know that in renalert the yak was in dev bot not just the yak but the mig was also tested in I believe witch was bhp it was in a YouTube bhp blog post but it never got to apb yet as they might have thought it was to op or something like that but now that we have lock on missiles witch makes it quite easier to use the mig but its nice to know that now we have cruisers coming on the way maybe along with migs and now already into the family the chrono tank witch now we will have most of the units but what will allies get in terms of killing migs and how will long bows deal with this will allies get an air base and along with that a p-41 and maybe a f9f cougar or something of balance if were talking about relative balance because we did get allied grenadier's but do we need allied jets I mean it would seem unfair but seeing the mig might get nerfed a little bit more before the release but it is fun to ride around in a jet on siege and the other big map but I digress. Anyway what im saying is how will the allies balance with the mig and we have needed the mig quite a long time now as it was in development in bhp and I did see something in maybe the renalert times in terms of testing migs and yaks I saw a vid on youtube ,but Im glad to see mig's finaly coming or is this gonna be another temporary setback like what happened in bhp were it was revealed in a blog post and tested but never released this is what I fear for all the new units they are powerful yes but it comes at cost of balance for different types of battlefields if you know what I mean Im saying what powerful vehicals can counter what vehicals and how will they be effective against what and what will they cost is the question here 

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14 minutes ago, thedisclaimitory said:

:v:words:

Yes, waffles taste great, I agree.

As for the MiG, I hope it gets paired with the new lock-on mechanic, it will make it feel VERY "this isn't W3D anymore?!".

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54 minutes ago, thedisclaimitory said:

Just because there was a video of a unit being tested 10 years ago, does not mean the unit was ready to go public 10 years ago. Especially when the video doesn't show all the things the unit is supposed to be capable of.

You didn't see the Yak ever firing its weapon in any of those old videos, did you? From what I've heard, one of the ancient methods the old devs tried to use to get the Yak to "fly" was by making it a ground vehicle with extremely long suspension and giving it a harmless weapon that produces negative recoil when fired - which would constantly propel the Yak forward in whatever direction it was being pointed. I am sure that's what's going on in this video as well as the other old Yak videos - you can hear the sound of tank treads all the time (so it's a ground vehicle and its "wheels" are still touching the ground), the propeller isn't spinning (so it isn't an aircraft), and they never show its gun being fired (so most likely its "gun" is being used for its propulsion). These videos were made purely to show off what looks like convincing plane flight, but wouldn't actually work in a true game environment because it wouldn't be able to actually kill anything since it wouldn't be possible for it to have an actual weapon in this configuration. (Plus the whole "wheels kicking up dust and making squeaky tread sounds at the ground far below" thing would get grating pretty fast, and recoil-based propulsion probably wouldn't look pretty for a client with a laggy connection to a server.)

So no, it's not a "they thought it was too OP" thing, it's a "they hadn't yet found a way to get it to fly and shoot at the same time" thing.

I've browsed the preset databases of various versions of the game and none of the pre-Delta ones that I've found contained any trace of the Yak, so the old devs must have given up pretty quickly on trying to implement it.

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44 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

Just because a video of a unit being tested exists does not mean the unit is ready to go public. Especially when the video doesn't show all the things the unit is supposed to be capable of.

You didn't see the Yak ever firing its weapon in any of those old videos, did you? From what I hear, one of the ancient methods the old devs tried to use to get the Yak to "fly" was by making it a ground vehicle with no suspension constraints and giving it a harmless weapon that produces negative recoil when fired - constantly propelling the Yak forward in whatever direction it was being pointed. I can only imagine that's what's going on in this video - you can hear the sound of tank treads all the time (ground vehicle), the propeller isn't spinning (not a VTOL), and they never show its gun being fired (so most likely its "gun" is being used for its propulsion). These videos were made purely to show off what looks like convincing plane flight, but wouldn't actually work in a true game environment because it wouldn't be able to actually kill anything (besides maybe infantry by running them over).

So no, it's not a "they thought it was too OP" thing, it's a "they hadn't yet found a way to get it to fly and shoot at the same time" thing.

I think I did maybe maybe not but anyway why did they want to show off but about the mig I finaly found the  blog or so called apb dev vlog  witch shows an early in dev mig but and I was wrong  on some parts but anyway the mig was vtol you can find the blog post here keep in mined I cant copy and pace on this so il just have to type it out      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5TAIyohJ-g also bear  in mined that I don't know how to loop a certain part I forgot so just go to this part int he vid 4:33 and watch all the way to 4:55 or if you want you want you can watch it all the way through and I think this is fraydo do the vlog idk im just guessing but also keep in mind that this was taken during the time of bhp also bear in mined don't press the link just copy it into the top search bar I tried this and it just went to youtube home 

Edited by thedisclaimitory

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1 hour ago, thedisclaimitory said:

From that video:

Image1.png

The guy behind this MiG was not part of the APB dev team. That Zama, from its lighting level, is clearly not official - it's purely a modded version to test the MiG on his end.

So what was stopping us from including his MiG? Well, we never had access to his files, and he never gave them to us. It's pretty hard for us to include something in the official game if we don't have the files for it, see? It also doesn't help that it had no textures and could still strafe sideways/backwards like a VTOL and not at all like a plane. Once again, nothing to do with "it was too OP". I can't claim to know exactly why he ended up dropping this, but the most likely possiblity is that, just like the "old Yak" dev team, he gave up in the face of the challenge of making it act less like a VTOL.

Also, 2015 is not "the renalert times". 2005 is "the renalert times".

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2 hours ago, Pushwall said:

:clap:

I appreciate the history lesson! Should help anyone else who's curious to know.

 

1 hour ago, Raap said:

Yes, waffles taste great, I agree.

As for the MiG, I hope it gets paired with the new lock-on mechanic, it will make it feel VERY "this isn't W3D anymore?!".

I hope so also, as it moves pretty fast right now. Still too early be worried about for the time being!

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@thedisclaimitory could you please use paragraphs and basic grammar please? Reading your posts isn't a pleasant experience for any of us. :( 

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Any thoughts on how to manage airfield traffic (landing/takeoffs) in a large game on maps with both Mig and Yak available?

Also, what are your current thinking in differentiating between the Hind, Yak and Migs?

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5 hours ago, des1206 said:

Any thoughts on how to manage airfield traffic (landing/takeoffs) in a large game on maps with both Mig and Yak available?

We designate a teammate on air traffic duty.

air-traffic-controler-holding-signals-pi

And that teammate will totally not be a spy waiting to steal a MiG or Yak from some poor sap.

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1 hour ago, Coolrock said:

Advanced Airfield when, Raap? :v

I think the amount of voice line editing to make that one work, would physically harm BattleLaf in real life.

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On 8/19/2018 at 3:35 AM, delta said:

Wait so does the MiG exist in the game code right now? 

While looking through the DDS. Files there are alot of things that exist that are not in usage currently and oddly enough. There is a Soviet Super Tank.dds file along with some RA2 .dds files.

 

Also on topic. The jet tails are the coolest fucking detail ever. I love it and great work. The only thing I would recommend would be a small red and green light that flashes on and off like airplanes have at night time.

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19 minutes ago, Threve said:

not in usage currently and oddly enough. There is a Soviet Super Tank.dds file

Someone hasn't played enough Lunar Paradox. :v

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