A Path Beyond What else is left?

[des1206]

I still can't believe we are at this point, that we have functioning Chronotank, Migs, Yaks, Cruisers! Thanks a million to all the devs whose hard work make it happen.

So what else is left? Chronosphere, Iron Curtain, dogs, Badger Bomber, spy planes, para-troopers. That's all right? Are we finally close to the finish line as far as full unit implementation is concerned?

[Pushwall]

On top of what you mentioned there's also these things from RA that are currently unimplemented:

• Helicarrier - though even if we find ourselves with the necessary visual assets, implementing it as a fun unit to play as is going to be a challenge. (And it'd probably necessitate Soviets getting a helipad on Hostile Waters?)
• Tech Centres (as in the teamed ones, not the neutral "three domes" Technology Centre currently on NBNW). Would probably need a new map as most of the bases on the current maps are too "full" to feature more large buildings without removing one of them. And then there's the question of what it would do and would that warrant a whole new building (we already have quite a few barely-useful buildings). I don't think just "props up your tech level by 1 point" would be enough.
• Camo Pillbox. I'd probably just have these be tougher Pillboxes like they are in RA. The usual idea I hear about them, "why don't you just randomize defence placements so Soviets don't know where the camo pillbox is right away" somehow assumes that the Allies will know where their own camo pillboxes are right away, may be a hindrance to the Allies because the camo pillboxes may end up in a more suboptimal position compared to where they are normally (and there really aren't a lot of optimal spots since the maps aren't super open anymore), may also be a hindrance to bots (including the AI ore truck) since base defenses by themselves do not block pathfinding so every place where a camo pillbox could possibly show up would have to be blocked off from bots, snipers/V2s would easily be able to pick them out even if you give them a random hiding place because of the target box (which is visible to both teams unless you make it stealthed which may not look the best), and within a few weeks of play people will have already gotten used to all the random positions anyway.

I also hope in the future we can refine the way the Spy, Thief, Mobile Radar Jammer and MAD Tank work, they're all pretty niche in their utility. Maybe a better tactical niche for the Tesla Tank, Grenadier and Flamethrower as well.

[KevinLancaster]

Would the Allied Tech Center have some sort of radar or enemy visibility bonus while it's active to simulate the GPS Satellite?

[Plokite_Wolf]

I remember a time singleplayer was supposed to be in Delta...

[VERTi60]

1 hour ago, des1206 said:

Chronosphere, Iron Curtain, dogs, Badger Bomber, spy planes, para-troopers

These are already in RA: AR though, except spy planes. Do we really need a spy plane? We have a Mig model so it could be done, but other than blowing up the GG/MGG bubbles or maybe revealing stealth of phase tanks I don't know what else it could do. Maybe have it also jam radar to be a counterpart of MRJ?

1 hour ago, Pushwall said:

Camo Pillbox.

Just the lower profile of it would make it harder for the soviet tanks/v2 to hit it properly. Combine that with some map terrain/block in the way to make up for the disadvantage of fixed position. So you can add another advantage besides being stronger than the basic one.

[des1206]

1 hour ago, Pushwall said:

Camo Pillbox. 

I think they will be tough enough for the Soviets with the added HP and low body profiles for V2s to target.

1 hour ago, Pushwall said:

also hope in the future we can refine the way the Spy, Thief, Mobile Radar Jammer and MAD Tank work, they're all pretty niche in their utility. Maybe a better tactical niche for the Tesla Tank, Grenadier and Flamethrower as well.

Hypothetically MADs should be great for defending against Allied armor rushes. Maybe we just take out the friendly-fire penalty?

Flamethrower is good for support role if burn damage reduces accuracy.

Nader's always tough, maybe just make him a free unit?

Edited November 9, 2018 by des1206

[des1206]

12 minutes ago, VERTi60 said:

 Do we really need a spy plane?

GG/MGG bubbles, Phase Tanks, Mines. 

[VERTi60]

For mines we have a counter though.

[Pushwall]

2 hours ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

I remember a time singleplayer was supposed to be in Delta...

Yeah well I don't remember being the one promising that, that was the old dev team that had a habit of blowing a lot of hot air and making promises they couldn't keep.

[Raap]

Realistically I think only superweapons are left, and that could include an A-bomb mechanical rework (which in my opinion it could use).

But for units? Except for a sapper type Soviet infantry unit, we pretty much covered all typical gameplay roles and all official Red Alert units.

There comes a time when a game is simply "done". APB isn't quite there yet, but its closer now than it has ever been. Which raises the question; When it happens, what's next?

[Plokite_Wolf]

48 minutes ago, Raap said:

When it happens, what's next?

AR, pls?

Edited November 9, 2018 by Plokite_Wolf

[Raptor29aa]

2 hours ago, Raap said:

But for units? Except for a sapper type Soviet infantry unit, we pretty much covered all typical gameplay roles and all official Red Alert units.

There comes a time when a game is simply "done". APB isn't quite there yet, but its closer now than it has ever been. Which raises the question; When it happens, what's next?

Are suggesting a construction worker to rebuild walls, place hedgehogs, and possibly build infantry ramps? If so, I like that idea! Not to long ago, I was in a match, where some newbie blew up the concrete base walls. It would’ve been awesome to rebuild them... or at least place a few hedgehogs.

PS maybe Allow C4 to blow up concrete walls.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Raptor29aa

[ChopBam]

9 hours ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

I remember a time singleplayer was supposed to be in Delta...

I think our time would be better spent working on cooperative or multiplayer missions, no?

[Cat]

I want Starvos and Einstein as playable units.

[Pushwall]

19 hours ago, VERTi60 said:

Just the lower profile of it would make it harder for the soviet tanks/v2 to hit it properly.

There's been a few instances in past where I lowered the profile of a pillbox as a reference to the camo pillbox (I remember doing it on Seamist and River Raid but there may have been more, all of which are gone now), and while it succeeded at making them more difficult for soviet vehicles to hit, it made it pretty difficult for the pillbox itself to target anything at a higher elevation than itself. So yes, while we'd have to do that in order for them to look more RAlistic, that further limits the amount of places we can put them 

[GaryOak]

6 hours ago, Cat said:

I want Starvos and Einstein as playable units.

There's still a lot of campaign units to go for. 

To balance the allies Einstein and Stavros out, we could implement the soviet super tank, with 16+ as much HP as the normal mammoth tank and cruiser cannons:

http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Super_tank

Or the nuclear submarine from from the first counterstrike mission:

http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_Tactical_Submarine

#cantwait #balanced

[Raap]

Heh, coincidentally I created a Nuclear Submarine for the original HostileWaters back in 1977.

I had no idea such a unit actually existed in RA!

I'm just not sure what it would add to APB that the Missile Sub cannot already do.

[GaryOak]

1 minute ago, Raap said:

Heh, coincidentally I created a Nuclear Submarine for the original HostileWaters back in 1977.

I had no idea such a unit actually existed in RA!

I'm just not sure what it would add to APB that the Missile Sub cannot already do.

Well it would add gloriously unbalanced communist victory over capitalist pigs, for one. 

[MPRA2]

I'm sure we could find a way to incorporate the Spy Plane and GPS Satellite. The Spy plane would be easy as you could just make a new room for the Radar Dome/Airfield or make a room in the Soviet Tech Centre for it. Add a purchase terminal to call the airstrike after lets say, a 2:40 cooldown as an example. Eventually after 5 or 10 seconds a "buffed up MiG" spy plane would make a high altitude pass over a selected area (it would be low enough for AA Guns to shoot at it, because in RAelism, you could actually shoot down spy planes with enough AA/Rockets) and relay a live video feed of the pass from the bottom of the aircraft, facing towards the map back to the monitor in whichever room the terminal+monitor are placed in. It would  be the most sensible Idea, because base defenders/team leaders/Catting could safely sit in base and make quick callouts to fellow Soviets about rushes, Allied strength, unit locations, etc. As for the GPS Sat... I'm not really sure how that would be incorporated aside from "revealing" all enemies on the radar until the tech centre is destroyed after the Sat is launched.

The Helicarrier, wouldnt really be practical to add into the game due to how useless it would be outside of maps without helicopters, and could also be abused as a "battle barge" where soviet infantry could just jump out of a Chinook onto the Helicarrier and use it as a "beefed up" Naval Transport, but you can fire from it. All I'm saying is that the Helicarrier would be a giant meme. Like when Demo Trucks were first introduced... *cough*

Grenadiers, my personal favorite should just be used as an Anti-Infantry role with his original Incendiary Grenade loadout. I know in RA1, Grenadiers were decent against lightly armored vehicles like Light Tanks, Rangers, MGGs, Demo Trucks, etc. But IIRC the Flamethrower did a slightly better job en mass against light and even heavier vehicles if used correctly. I know there was this whole discussion about Grenadiers and Flamethrowers being the exact same thing, and to a point they are, however ingame the Grens would be better at taking out infantry from safer distances as well as doing sizable chunks of damage against buildings when put in groups of 5 or more, and given how accurate both the Flamethrower and Grenadier are in actual combat, they are roughly the same with the Grenadier being slightly better imo due to being able to chuck grenades further than the Flamethrower can launch his balls of love. I just want my napalm grenades back Pushwall.... come on man... I'm begging you

Camo Pillboxes, why dont we just very VERY slightly lower the profile enough for it to still be able to target units and be useful, then just paint the thing exactly like the terrain to make it appear like a little hill? I mean you could put some "visual only" camo netting over the gun slits and I'm sure it'll be able to fire through it. I dunno...... At this point I have no more words. I spent all my word points trying to think of ideas.

Oh and Cruisers. One of these days we need a cruiser. even if its just a gunboat with 3 triple mount turrets.

Cruisers.

We could also dabble in the "upgrade" system, as upgrades I believe were supposed to be a feature in Red Alert but was scrapped. I may be going crazy but there was an EVA voice line "Upgrade Complete" in the "Radio 2 Remix" track of Counterstrike... Might have been recorded just for the song though

Badger Bombers would be nice, but I dont see any use in giving either side the ability to drop para-bombs or drop AI/PC soldiers into certain areas of play without it "breaking" the game meta, or having the Badger be too overly fragile.

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by MPRA2

[Killing_You]

3 hours ago, MPRA2 said:

Oh and Cruisers. One of these days we need a cruiser. even if its just a gunboat with 3 triple mount turrets.

Cruisers.

On 11/9/2018 at 12:17 PM, Pushwall said:

I also hope in the future we can refine the way the Spy, Thief, Mobile Radar Jammer and MAD Tank work, they're all pretty niche in their utility. Maybe a better tactical niche for the Tesla Tank, Grenadier and Flamethrower as well.

Personally, I tend to play the Tesla Tank as a TD and it works out rather well.

[MPRA2]

Huh.... Guess I missed a big patch.... Well..... Time to screw around in singleplayer.

[Raap]

2 hours ago, MPRA2 said:

Huh.... Guess I missed a big patch.... Well..... Time to screw around in singleplayer.

Now I understand why you think a spy plane is helpful; You got none IRL!

You poor bastard.

[OWA]

22 hours ago, Raap said:

Heh, coincidentally I created a Nuclear Submarine for the original HostileWaters back in 1977.

GAMEBREAKERS!

[VERTi60]

Wasn't there also a nuclear destroyer and both of them cost like 10k credits?

[VERTi60]

On 11/11/2018 at 9:35 AM, MPRA2 said:

Huh.... Guess I missed a big patch.... Well..... Time to screw around in singleplayer.

We had a good game night yesterday with lots of botes...

[Pushwall]

2 hours ago, VERTi60 said:

Wasn't there also a nuclear destroyer and both of them cost like 10k credits?

"Ion destroyer" if i remember correctly, firing missiles that spewed renegade ion cannon particles

[MPRA2]

not sure how to feel about the new DD and GB models though... they just seem so out of place.

[VERTi60]

20 minutes ago, MPRA2 said:

not sure how to feel about the new DD and GB models though... they just seem so out of place.

Too modern looking?

[MPRA2]

On 11/11/2018 at 2:17 PM, VERTi60 said:

Too modern looking?

that, and they just have no color to them. maybe color parts of them blue or something? I really liked the old Destroyer design. The new gunboat model looks interesting, and the Cruiser model looks pretty spot on in terms of what they looked like in the cutscenes... It might be because of spending too much time in Interim Apex. I don't undermine the modeller though, the models are amazing and the attention to detail just makes it all the better, however personally I just dont think they "fit" in the Red Alert universe.

I also know that these models are "based" off of what the naval units IRL counterpart is, so I understand why this was chosen as a visual upgrade to the previous Allied naval units.

[KevinLancaster]

1 hour ago, MPRA2 said:

that, and they just have no color to them. maybe color parts of them blue or something? I really liked the old Destroyer design. The new gunboat model looks interesting, and the Cruiser model looks pretty spot on in terms of what they looked like in the cutscenes... It might be because of spending too much time in Interim Apex. I don't undermine the modeller though, the models are amazing and the attention to detail just makes it all the better, however personally I just dont think they "fit" in the Red Alert universe.

I also know that these models are "based" off of what the naval units IRL counterpart is, so I understand why this was chosen as a visual upgrade to the previous Allied naval units.

Raap said the Destroyer was poorly done out of the new models in the update thread, also Coolrock explained why they decided to replace the old models:

Yeah the Destroyer was not made with the same standards. The art for the naval units was out-sourced, both visually and technically the Destroyer is a mess and I believe a few people are already looking into updating it substantially (for starters the whole thing needs to be re-unwrapped). I don't know the specifics of the deal but I'd probably not go into business with that individual again, personally, given the fact he delivered half a ship here.

At least the Gunboat and Cruiser came out okay, especially the Gunboat.

We knew it was going to be an issue, but it came down to putting the Cruiser in the game now, or waiting months for the possibility of a 3D Artist joining the team again. I decided to act and get us the ship now. In the process, I also brought up getting replacements for the rest of the ships, since the Cruiser was crazy detailed compared to the Gunboat/Destroyer. We decided it was for the best to update everything for now, and always have the possibility to go back later. 

The team is very limited on what can be done. We don’t have the team size like we did 10+ years ago, and this was the best way I could find to get the ships to the players (especially the Cruiser).