A Path Beyond APB Delta Map Balance

[Einstein]

[.....]

 

Yes yes yes! That all sounds great!

 

 

Also, Fissure_Flying_Flares.

 

U wot m8

[delta]

Yay, no more barbed wire.

 

Regarding the tournament plugin, isn't that dependent on having a moderator in the game? Or at least one on IRC who is paying attention?

Edited April 21, 2016 by delta

[Raap]

 

Also, Fissure_Flying_Flares.

U wot m8

 

 

A map concept so terrible, that you actually want to see it.

 

The scary thing perhaps is that in my mind I can actually see ways to get the flying part working.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Raap

[devilslayersbane]

RA_riversnipe. TDM sniper battle across an impassible river. Missle silos also available.

[GeneralCamo]

 

 

Also, Fissure_Flying_Flares.

U wot m8

 

 

A map concept so terrible, that you actually want to see it.

 

The scary thing perhaps is that in my mind I can actually see ways to get the flying part working.

 

Just have Yaks pumping machine gun and autocannon fire every few minutes into the battlefield. Solved!

[delta]

RA_riversnipe. TDM sniper battle across an impassible river. Missle silos also available.

Pfft, who needs missile silos. Just add respawning neutral demo trucks, but also make them VTOLs and add a set of helicopter rotors to them

[FRAYDO]

Just have Yaks pumping machine gun and autocannon fire every few minutes into the battlefield. Solved!

Flying Yaks. That'll be the day.

[Silverlight]

Regarding the tournament plugin, isn't that dependent on having a moderator in the game? Or at least one on IRC who is paying attention?

 

Thanks to rantanplan, the tournament plugin will activate automatically on FOI.

[Raap]

 

 

 

Also, Fissure_Flying_Flares.

U wot m8

 

 

A map concept so terrible, that you actually want to see it.

 

The scary thing perhaps is that in my mind I can actually see ways to get the flying part working.

 

Just have Yaks pumping machine gun and autocannon fire every few minutes into the battlefield. Solved!

 

 

You know, making fun of the magnificence that would be Fissure_Flying only motivates me to put it in line after the Fjord remake.

 

I'll make it work and it will be amazing. AND NONE OF YOU TWATS CAN SAY OTHERWISE!

[devilslayersbane]

Otherwise!

 

That wasn't hard.

[Einstein]

@Raap obviously this guy^ isn't a twat

 

 

RA_riversnipe. TDM sniper battle across an impassible river. Missle silos also available.

Pfft, who needs missile silos. Just add respawning neutral demo trucks, but also make them VTOLs and add a set of helicopter rotors to them

 

You guys really should check out the old .9935 test maps.....really

[delta]

Ooo, there was such a thing? Can you just post a video of it?

[Einstein]

ehh...give me some time haha. IIRC they aren't VTOL (that was the V2-launching ore truck ) but I think they have super speed or something...? I'll find out

[Pushwall]

So arty/v2 are still way too pivotal on Coastal Influence. What do you guys think about having a plateau in the middle of the island like this:

 

 

To make arty/V2 have to travel farther before attacking, give infantry more breathing room on the island, give counter-arty artys a nice big target to hit for splash damage if they can't hit the enemy artys directly, and make scouting harder? To compensate for this, the area around the lighthouse will be deforested a little to give more room for vehicles to move since they won't be able to go around the south side of the house.

 

Bear in mind that this one right here also has invisible projectile blockers over it, so arc shots can't fire over it (if they could then these barriers would just make arty/v2 even stronger)

[Einstein]

Interesting idea for sure. I would like to see how it plays out. Only thing I might have a concern about though is the projectile blockers. Since the objective here is to obstruct vision, as well as clear b2b shots, why not make it a taller plateau, almost like the one in the middle of RA_Under? But without the rest of the mountain of course. Just a taller version of what you already did there, to the point that it would be really difficult to fire over it effectively. And if the top were infantry-accessible, it might also give infantry another place to explore and scout from (and get v2/arty sniped of course ). This might piss folks off a little less, especially newbies who are expecting to be able to fire over it.

[Pushwall]

Don't think I can make it too much taller without it looking weird. I could stick some taller trees on it too.

 

I actually considered making the top infantry accessible and putting the house up there too, but the problem is that the projectile blockers block all projectiles, no way around it. So people who get on top of that plateau wouldn't be able to shoot anything that isn't also on top.

[Raptor29aa]

So arty/v2 are still way too pivotal on Coastal Influence. What do you guys think about having a plateau in the middle of the island like this:

 

game 2016-05-01 17-16-52-72.png

 

To make arty/V2 have to travel farther before attacking, give infantry more breathing room on the island, give counter-arty artys a nice big target to hit for splash damage if they can't hit the enemy artys directly, and make scouting harder? To compensate for this, the area around the lighthouse will be deforested a little to give more room for vehicles to move since they won't be able to go around the south side of the house.

 

Bear in mind that this one right here also has invisible projectile blockers over it, so arc shots can't fire over it (if they could then these barriers would just make arty/v2 even stronger)

I like the plateau in the middle as is no taller. Maybe an infantry entrance or fortification or trees on the plateau. The main reason the island can only be retaken by tanks is because openness and the splash damage.

No blocker necessary if defending infantry are at the base. If you are concerned enough for a blocker why not curve out the top like an upside down trapezoid.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Raptor29aa

[Pushwall]

If you are concerned enough for a blocker why not curve out the top like an upside down trapezoid.

 

Because that'd have to be a pretty damn tall curve (at least 5 times the current height of the plateau) to actually make an effective blocker against arty/v2 arc shots. And then the plateau would be at least 5 times taller and apparently you don't want that?

[Isaac The Madd]

Just make a pillar to the sky around the whole thing.

[Raptor29aa]

I just thought of something funny. Artillery have a hard time aiming in a straight line if on a slope.

The island could be sloped?

[Einstein]

You fiendish fiend you That would indeed be hilarious.

[Pushwall]

The Refinery is a pretty big target.

[SarahNautili]

Maybe make a big cluster of trees along the very center of the plateau to act as a visible indication of the projectile blockers, with infantry access on either side?

[Alstar]

I decided to revive this topic with bunch of game stats since last patch. Everyone can feel free to discuss those.

 

All games have more than 5 players and are happening since last patch (23.06)

AS_Seamist - total games: 59
Allied wins: 28
Soviet wins: 31

River Raid - total games: 58
Allied wins: 25 (17 by building destruction, 8 by high score)
Soviet wins: 33 (27 by building destruction, 6 by high score)

Coalstar Influence - total games: 56
Allied wins: 28 (10 by building destruction, 18 by high score)
Soviet wins: 28 (15 by building destruction, 13 by high score)

Ridge War - total games: 57
Allied wins: 23 (5 by building destruction, 18 by high score)
Soviet wins: 34 (8 by building destruction, 26 by high score)

Keep Off The Grass - total games: 45
Allied wins: 18 (7 by building destruction, 11 by high score)
Soviet wins: 27 (10 by building destruction, 17 by high score)

Fissure - total games: 45
Allied wins: 20 (8 by building destruction, 12 by high score)
Soviet wins: 25 (9 by building destruction, 16 by high score)

Zama - total games: 43
Allied wins: 20 (11 by building destruction, 9 by high score)
Soviet wins: 23 (6 by building destruction, 17 by high score)

Pacific Threat - total games: 38
Allied wins: 23 (12 by building destruction, 11 by high score)
Soviet wins: 15 (4 by building destruction, 11 by high score)

Pipeline - total games: 42
Allied wins: 19 (11 by building destruction, 8 by high score)
Soviet wins: 23 (9 by building destruction, 14 by high score)

Guard Duty - total games: 43
Allied wins: 19 (15 by building destruction, 4 by high score)
Soviet wins: 24 (18 by building destruction, 6 by high score)

Under - total games: 42
Allied wins: 24 (7 by building destruction, 17 by high score)
Soviet wins: 18 (7 by building destruction, 11 by high score)

Stormy Valley - total games: 45
Allied wins: 21 (7 by building destruction, 14 by high score)
Soviet wins: 24 (10 by building destruction, 14 by high score)

Camos Canyon - total games: 52
Allied wins: 24 (10 by building destruction, 14 by high score)
Soviet wins: 28 (8 by building destruction, 20 by high score)

Wastelands - total games: 40
Allied wins: 13 (6 by building destruction, 7 by high score)
Soviet wins: 27 (13 by building destruction, 14 by high score)

Bonsai - total games: 42
Allied wins: 16 (10 by building destruction, 6 by high score)
Soviet wins: 26 (16 by building destruction, 10 by high score)

Complex - total games: 48
Allied wins: 19 (7 by building destruction, 12 by high score)
Soviet wins: 29 (14 by building destruction, 15 by high score)

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Alstar

[Pushwall]

And the funny thing there is there's some bugs that are hamstringing the Soviets, which are being fixed. Turns out their AI ore truck actually moves slower than the Allied one (though it also has 200+200 more health) and most of their infantry weapons take 1 second to ready after leaving sprint mode or switching weapons, compared to Allied ones that take 0.5 seconds.

 

Rangers are getting a sizable buff next build but I doubt that'll be enough

[des1206]

And the funny thing there is there's some bugs that are hamstringing the Soviets, which are being fixed. Turns out their AI ore truck actually moves slower than the Allied one (though it also has 200+200 more health) and most of their infantry weapons take 1 second to ready after leaving sprint mode or switching weapons, compared to Allied ones that take 0.5 seconds.

 

Rangers are getting a sizable buff next build but I doubt that'll be enough

A simple change to let the Phase Transport carry an extra passenger could make all the difference (maybe even OP allies).

[Pushwall]

A simple change to let the Phase Transport carry an extra passenger could make all the difference (maybe even OP allies).

 

Noooo. Frankly I should probably give that ability to the Light Tank since it's one of the MBTs.

On the other hand Keep Off The Grass is getting its defenses trimmed a bit and a lot of maps are having their foliage trimmed a bit too which should help the Allies a bit since they like to move and bump into trees much more.

[des1206]

Then maybe a nerf to the Starshina secondary and shotgunners' health to 50/50 can help out the Allies infantry attackers a bit.

[Pushwall]

So anyway as for individual maps - most of the clearly skewed ones I already noticed the trend a few weeks ago and made some edits already.

 

Bonsai is getting somewhat overhauled next version; less ridiculous foliage placements, Missile Silo defenses are going away, Allies get a WF side turret, Allied base is going to be much less accessible from the sides (the water on WF side becomes deep much closer to shore, and the hill on Radar Dome side is too steep to climb from outside the base), and there will be a tunnel leading to the Soviet ore field from midfield just like the current one leading to the Allied ore field. On the flip side, the Soviet WF hill will be easier to climb from inside the base so flares up there should be less overpowering. All in all it should be a bit more balanced I hope.

 

Ridge War is getting its coil removed again and substituted with flame towers.

 

Keep Off the Grass is getting defense trimmed and foliage trimmed. Soviets in particular will have no frontal flame towers, only coils. Foliage trimming may help the Soviets MAD rush through middle but it also means Allies can dodge a lot more. I may remove the Soviet ore silo or lengthen the AI OT route too as their mixed dumps mean they end up with much more money than the Allies even with much slower trips - plus it'll mean they can't afford to just spam MADs, only use them when they feel they can actually hold the middle.

 

Pacific Threat Soviets are getting an island near their helipad to aid their defense against destroyers, just like the Allied frontal docks, and their flame tower is being moved into a slightly more anti-thief position. Should help the Soviets somewhat.

 

Wasteland idk what's up here. Can't be entirely attributed to mechs feeding points to the Soviets, as they have a big lead in both points wins AND base destruction leads. Rangers will not respawn anymore next version but that's not going to shift the team balance either way. I don't feel this is as important or representative of team balance as the other maps anyway as it's not a full-on AOW map.

 

With the other maps the win ratios aren't skewed enough to say if they're actually unbalanced.

[Alstar]

There is small issue with Stormy valley tho, soviets can still use V2's to destroy pillbox and AA gun close to infantry only passage.

 

Pacific Threat change = RIP Alstar's thiefing around 2016-2016

 

Issue about Coalstar Influence - You are capable to arcfire through hill on bridge road to damage enemy team bridge with both Arty and V2, tested it personally. Also lately noone ever takes middle road, unless a) allied bridge is destroyed and V2's roll out to slam rockets all across the allied base or B) Soviet war factory is destroyed and they dont expect much resistance. Most of games on my guarding V2 duty are boring because noone is passing through middle anymore simply because its not worth at all.

 

Complex - Ths chokepointy map is definitely in soviet favor, even after removal of mads/demos. Single tank can stop entire assault, soviet base is mostly inaccessable due to AP mines and it feels like allies are very often pushed into defense. Only attacks i observed from them lately (because it keeps putting me into soviet team) are ranger with tanya/engi inside, which usually ends in death of both thanks to guarding heavy/tesla tank.