A Path Beyond Grenadier

[TeamWolf]

I think we should give the Grenadier throwing knifes as a secondary instead a pistol.

 

If this is a serious suggest, his old Grenade would make more sense.

[Einstein]

Bayonet 'nades.

[FRAYDO]

Hot papayas.

[VERTi60]

Let's make a compromise. He keeps the safety pull ring which he can use as secondary weapon to suffocate the little chicken neck allies (best part is Pushwall doesn't have to hire extra modelers for additional weapon )

[Raptor29aa]

Punching would be awesome, but too hard to land a hit. Throwing knives would be cool too.

- Something I did learn is that the grenades stick to teammates (I stuck a few to some of my comrades as they entered the enemy refinery. No FF don't worry)

Edited April 1, 2016 by Raptor29aa

[des1206]

Given it's been a while since the nader update. How do people find the unit's usefulness now?

[JigglyJie]

Hit and miss. I honestly prefer the old Grenadier but with some tweaks. This one, whilst it has nice splash, is certainly not worth the $500. I find myself dying to my own grenades than my own target. It's good for defending but it's horrible for assaulting, the building damage is negligble so I'm not really sure what this units purpose is now.

 

(Not that the old one had much to begin with... but he had good mobility, which coupled with the instant explosion quickly dispatched lone guns roaming around)

Edited April 20, 2016 by JigglyJie

[harvester]

Grenade trooper is fine except he needs a lower cost.

[Raptor29aa]

He's good, but needs a perk like either less cost, runs faster, less self damage (useless on infantry only maps), or more hp. Some small tweek would make him worth the price.

[ganein14]

He's good, but needs a perk like either less cost, runs faster, less self damage (useless on infantry only maps), or more hp. Some small tweek would make him worth the price.

Agreed.

[gammae102]

I think the Grenadier needs way less range/more arc. Ideally, I'd like to see them as the unit to use where you can sneak behind a rock while the base defenses are still up and do some damage while still in cover. A greater arc would make them more useful for this purpose, as well as reduce their currently ridiculous range. But seriously, throw a grenade straight up in the air now and tell me it doesn't look ridiculous. Also, they need the aforementioned price reduction.

[delta]

So here's a crazy idea (and yeah, it would break RAlism)...what if we gave Grenadier to Allies so that they have an equivalent to the Flamethrower for fighting inside buildings?

[Pushwall]

But the Grenadier isn't for fighting inside buildings??? That's kinda the whole idea behind the delay on its damage, its high vulnerability to its own damage, its lack of an MCT bonus, and its inability to get suicide kills...

 

There's already a thing the Allies have for fighting inside buildings (that isn't as costly as Tanya) too, it's called the medic and it shreds infantry in close quarters like nothing else and makes his teammates nearly invulnerable if he has any with him (unless the Soviets brought a source of fire damage to the party).

 

_{You may be onto something though but don't get excited}

[devilslayersbane]

I agree, the MP5 is amazing in CQC. The grenadier, not so much. Doesn't need to be. The whole point of grenades is to remove enemies in entrenched positions or in RAspeak: Blow up buildings and defenses because enemies hardly ever stand still long enough to blow them up.

[Pushwall]

stuff i've already heard a dozen times about desync

 

Only way of fixing this is making it not a C4 which means it'll be susceptible to randomly clipping through the terrain and falliing into bluehell where it can't hurt anyone. Which will happen to everyone no matter where in the world they are in relation to the server.

 

How about reducing his cost to $300, so we could use him earlier in the match? I love my Supply Truck rushes, especially if I manage to get a couple rockets to come with me. Alternatively, we could get some grenadiers, if they where $300.

 

He's going down to $400 next patch. So sure you can use them earlier but, you know, not so early that the Allies are unable to buy the counter to cliffnaders.

[Einstein]

As I understand it, the use of the C4 logic was what fixed the issues it had previously with clipping terrain, etc. Without creating completely new logic for it from scratch (which nobody wants to do), there likely isn't a fix that will 100% satisfy everyone....

[Pushwall]

The only thing that'll be lost by returning to non-C4 logic is its ability to consistently stick to terrain/objects instead of falling into bluehell and not hurting anything. Which is a pretty damn huge thing to lose! Of course that can also be "fixed" by making it explode on contact, but then we're back to square one and it returns to being a flamethrower clone and then it either completely eclipses the flamethrower or the reverse happens like how it was before the big change to naders.

[MPRA2]

Huh..... I finally found the place to bitch about the Grenadiers.... nice.... But looking through it, and the main reasons why it was changed..... I kind...of....? Understand why it was changed. I still cant stand that delay though. But just maybe.... with a ton of alcohol in 6 months, and all of my patience, will I be able to get used to the C4-logic...

[devilslayersbane]

I think what would really be a good thing for the grenadier now, is the ability to cook grenades. Granted, thats script-work on C4 logic. I'm not sure how that'd turn out. It'd be nice to define a grenade specific logic that is similar to but not entirely like the C4 logic.

There weren't any charging weapons in renegade was there?

[Pushwall]

Charging weapons are a thing that's in the engine, but the delay of the charge is dependent entirely on lag (either that or an RNG that only kicks in when playing online, cause charge times are consistent in LAN mode). Remember the Gamma shock rifle which was intended to have a 1 second chargeup but really ended up being anywhere between 1 and 2 seconds? Which, in addition to making it near impossible to hit infantry, also meant that its DPS was random? Yeah how about no.

[devilslayersbane]

Maybe the scripts guys should have a look at the charging code. I just feel like the complaints about the delay could be resolved with a mix of the charge up and C4 logic so that the grenade can be cooked. And while grenades are fairly consistent in their cook times, we are talking about the soviet union here.

[Pushwall]

And while grenades are fairly consistent in their cook times, we are talking about the soviet union here.

 

No excuse to add a luck-based anti-building weapon. Bear in mind that there's a much smaller gap in DPS between weapons that are weak/strong against buildings than there is for weapons against vehicles. An unlucky grenadier would be so badly affected by this that he'd do better damage to a building by being a kapitan shooting it from outdoors with his machinegun. If his damage was increased to compensate for that, then under the luckier circumstances he'd basically be a tesla tank at 1/4 the price in a barely-hittable infantry package.

[Einstein]

Maybe the scripts guys should have a look at the charging code.

 

I am in no way an expert on this, but I believe this actually has more to do with the engine's net code and how "tolerant" it is of high volumes of latency. Just a hunch.

[MPRA2]

 

Maybe the scripts guys should have a look at the charging code.

 

I am in no way an expert on this, but I believe this actually has more to do with the engine's net code and how "tolerant" it is of high volumes of latency. Just a hunch.

In all honesty, the netcode on "Renegade" as a whole game, no matter what you do with it.... the NC is going to be just as bad as Battlefield 4's launch..... (EA is pretty good at fucking over multiplayer on games). I remember when C4 had that same delay, I never used engineer for assaulting buildings because I was never compentant enough to go with mates and use the C4 while being fired upon because I'd either die before I got to the MCT, or I would miss..... horribly.... with grenadiers its the same thing. Before the past 2 or 3 rounds of fixes, I loved using him, but I honestly don't agree with the delay and sticky grenades. Again, taking the time to look back on experiences, going through this thread and now looking at Push's response to my post on the changelog, I fully understand why he needed the change. actually agree that he was pretty much a flamer, but cheaper and had more range and splash vs now, I think he could be good at laying ambushes with the timed frag if used correctly. He has become pretty different from the Flamethrower, as you need to time your shots pretty accurately vs wildly firing a ball of flame at the ground, or yourself. All in all, I may disagree with some of the changes done to the grenadier, I actually agree with Push that he has become a little less... spammy and OP in the maps you can buy him on. Now he's pretty much volk-AP lite at this point, but a little less powerful, and a lower ROF.

[des1206]

I would argue he is pretty good against Artillery, vehicles with mechs, Allied base defenses and the techs repairing them too.