A Path Beyond LST with tank aboard (the first demo)

[GraYaSDF]

It took me two evenings to make a little demo of what also could be made for Red Alert A Path Beyond. Including few hours for moving resources of this game back to my experimental lab for Commando Assault and for exploring them. Did not know there is already Level Editor and source codes for APB, thanks to CMDBob for the tip.

[NodGuy]

Yes. It's satisfying as it is to sink those pesky LSTs with my V2 rockets, but if they're also carrying vehicles then they would be my favourite target.

[Pushwall]

It's a feature I've wanted for a while but the issue will be finding a reliable way to communicate to the players that there are some vehicles you just can't put in the LST. Because from a developer's point of view it's pretty clear that LSTs should not be allowed to carry demo trucks. Can you imagine if for 3100, you could buy a demo truck that had 4 times as much health, moved 25% faster, took one of the less traveled roads (i.e. the water) and could also carry a bunch of infantry passengers who are protected from the immediate explosion? Yeah, that's basically the demo LST.

I think we can get away with not having to tell players that you can't pack a heli or a boat inside the LST, because you couldn't do it in Red Alert and the latter would make no sense since every other naval unit is so much bigger than the LST... but I'm sure that once this feature makes it in, Coastal Influence games will be wracked by people buying demo trucks, trying to load them into the LST, failing because it's not allowed (and they might possibly continue to try to do it if there's not enough to indicate that the demo cannot be loaded), resulting in demos milling about their own bases uselessly before enemies notice and destroy them, resulting in many more games ruined by demo noobs.

[Killing_You]

You could just add a tooltip that states something like "You can only pick up Tech 1 vehicles," similar to how there's one telling people to "Press Q to deploy."

[Pushwall]

That's only obvious to the person who's in the LST though. If someone sees an LST pick up or drop off a heavy tank, they are no doubt going to try bringing a demo over to a later LST unless they've already been in one and seen the popup.

[Killing_You]

True, although the LST driver should probably communicate with their team on crucial matters like this. Between the drivers relaying the message, the tooltips, and the patch notes, people will catch on quickly.

[Jeod]

Is there a method for occupancy limit? This should use a risk v. reward system. 6 HTs rush via land or 3 HTs rush via LST. Of course more LSTs could be purchased, but it would cost more money.

[GraYaSDF]

17 minutes ago, Jeod said:

Is there a method for occupancy limit?

It is up to W3D Hub yet. But sure, this idea is possible to program =)

[ChopBam]

Couldn't something be scripted such that when you try to enter an LST with one of the disallowed units that it then displays the tooltip?

[Jeod]

36 minutes ago, GraYaSDF said:

It is up to W3D Hub yet. But sure, this idea is possible to program =)

I can see it breaking the game and causing a lot of unpopularity if pesky tank rushes suddenly become more pesky by being able to rush via water route without penalty.

[Pushwall]

1 hour ago, Jeod said:

Is there a method for occupancy limit? This should use a risk v. reward system. 6 HTs rush via land or 3 HTs rush via LST. Of course more LSTs could be purchased, but it would cost more money.

I don't think I would allow LST to carry more than 1 of any vehicle. Except maybe rangers. Carrying more than 1 of pretty much anything is GG if enemy team's navy is down - they are forced to overcommit a bunch of RS/V2/Arty to their shores or get insta-ganked by 5 MBT/APC stacked on top of each other, and that's just the tech level 1 units. Not to mention I don't think this feature overrides the infantry passenger limit, so you get to carry 5 infantry (not including yourself since you get into the ejected vehicle automatically, it seems) and 1 vehicle - that's plenty.

[Mojoman]

Yeah 5 HT's could do a lot more damage than 5 kovs IMO.

[forg0ten1]

pretty cool. Maybe this means we can have useable carry-alls in reborn now too!

[MPRA2]

Granted, I have no idea when I'll ever get back into Renegade/APB or really any of the mods other than the very rare ECW game with Jerad and Test, but the vehicle LST looks like a pretty good idea. Might I suggest making 2 varients of the LST I.E. Infantry and Vehicle varients, but the Vehicle varient should be a bit larger than the current LST, a bit more beefy on HP or AP, travel about the speed of a Destroyer, and carries up to 3 vehicles of any kind if possible (excluding demo trucks and MAD Tanks) that way you dont have to waste a rush of 4 or 5 $800+ transports (or whatever it'll be priced at) and THEN the cost of your vehicle being loaded up, just to get out into your tank and leave that LST to be captured by the enemy if the landing attack failed.

[Mojoman]

 @MPRA2 You should get back into APB now :D

[NodGuy]

1 hour ago, forg0ten1 said:

pretty cool. Maybe this means we can have useable carry-alls in reborn now too!

That would be amazing.

[Kaskins]

2 hours ago, forg0ten1 said:

pretty cool. Maybe this means we can have useable carry-alls in reborn now too!

Balancing, have you ever thought of dropping vehicle on top of enemy buildings?

[KevinLancaster]

9 hours ago, Pushwall said:

That's only obvious to the person who's in the LST though. If someone sees an LST pick up or drop off a heavy tank, they are no doubt going to try bringing a demo over to a later LST unless they've already been in one and seen the popup.

Is it possible to make the invalid vehicle blow up without causing any damage?

[Einstein]

So can it carry enemy or neutral vehicles as well? Unoccupied ones? Regardless, I would assume that if it can do these things currently, it could be easily scripted not to in the future. But then there's the question of what we actually want it to do

Nice work getting that working!

[GraYaSDF]

18 hours ago, Pushwall said:

Not to mention I don't think this feature overrides the infantry passenger limit, so you get to carry 5 infantry (not including yourself since you get into the ejected vehicle automatically, it seems)

Yeah, it does not for now, but I can override limits through scripting. It is possible technically to syncronize passengers' limit and passengers' limit with one loaded vehicle.

[GraYaSDF]

14 hours ago, forg0ten1 said:

Pretty cool. Maybe this means we can have useable carry-alls in reborn now too!

Carryall? Didn't you heard about Commando Assault mod for C&C Renegade? Carryall is ALREADY there, its name is Transport Helicopter  I made a new logic written from scratch for that VTOL few years ago. But the idea itself still belongs to Jonwil, I applied the first logic of Carryall in 2011, and at that time it was an original script of Jonwil, with some differences.

[Raap]

I've said it before but a lot of identification problems can be solved if you axe RAlism and redesign the transport to look more like something from Tiberian Dawn. You can add passenger seats and enough space to carry the largest vehicle it can carry (Heavy Tank or Tesla Tank). To prototype this functionality prior to committing art resources to the creation of a new naval vehicle, you can temporarily rip the Renegade model. To ensure you got the space without making the "LST" larger, you can trim the width of the exterior "walls" of this vehicle down towards more of a shovel end shape; Mostly flat near the forward end which carries a vehicle. This would solve some hitbox issues as well.

Gameplay-wise however I firmly believe this mechanic should not be considered without this level of target and threat identification, but also not without the ability to damage the carried vehicle. If a transport carrying a Light Tank comes to shore after eating a direct V2 hit, it shouldn't "pop out" with full health.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Raap

[moonsense715]

On 2017. 07. 07. at 4:05 AM, NodGuy said:

That would be amazing.

Have you missed the ECW carryall? It can carry vehicles already (although just one at a time).

[NodGuy]

1 minute ago, moonsense715 said:

Have you missed the ECW carryall? It can carry vehicles already (although just one at a time).

Yeah, but I'm a Tiberian Sun fanboy so the thought of TSR possibly having it is exciting.