A Path Beyond APB Delta Map Balance

[Pushwall]

Issue about Coalstar Influence - You are capable to arcfire through hill on bridge road to damage enemy team bridge with both Arty and V2, tested it personally.

 

Well aware of this and it's already fixed for next build, the blocker over the hill is too short currently.

 

May also try out making the bridges indestructible here.

[Einstein]

May also try out making the bridges indestructible here.

 

Nooooooooooooo

[ChopBam]

What about making the bridges able to be revived by engineer? In that case, maybe even lower the bridges' hp?

[Pushwall]

Which involves raising the Golden Wrench's range by like 10-15m (remember how big these segments are), giving the segments a target box so that it's obvious that repairs work on them since repairs don't generate hitmarkers (and thus screwing over anyone who wants to do combat around said bridges by preventing them from seeing the target boxes of things they care about), and then assuming that engineers can ever make it out to reach destroyed segments that are being overseen by artys and snipers.

[Isaac The Madd]

You could set up a bridge repair box system, a little box terminal at either end.

[Pushwall]

And have like 20 terminals in there because there's that many individual segments to keep track of?

[Isaac The Madd]

Make a separate nonmodular bridge for it then.

 

Like a certain other mod.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Isaac The Madd

[Pushwall]

Not a solution, there's no one to model it. Why do people keep forgetting this?

[moonsense715]

Not a solution, there's no one to model it. Why do people keep forgetting this?

Why need for a new model? You can't use the current bridge?

[Alstar]

Modular bridge allows you to make it as long as you want. And Coastal actually have bridges of different lenght

[Voe]

What about the flamethrowers up the ridge on fissure? 3 or 4 make for a critical mass where allies can neither leave the barracks, nor repair it (splash damage kills techies within).

 

I don't know if removing them would be good, though. Remember about the medics.

[des1206]

Can we include Hell March in the Assault Seamist map? It would really pump both sides up in this time intensive mission.

[delta]

Where have you been? Hell March already plays on Seamist

[Alstar]

What about Complex? Yesterday we had another game where soviets simply blocked all atacks without problems and kept Allies at bay. After one tank attack the only thing i seen were arty on bridges and attempts to sneak in with tanya/engi. Until server crashed.

[des1206]

Where have you been? Hell March already plays on Seamist

Oops, wasn't thinking when i posted this! I was talking about the HM version shown in our delta trailer!

[Pushwall]

What about Complex? Yesterday we had another game where soviets simply blocked all atacks without problems and kept Allies at bay. After one tank attack the only thing i seen were arty on bridges and attempts to sneak in with tanya/engi. Until server crashed.

 

Remove mammoths? Drop it down to tech level 4 for real so there's no Volkovs to hold the line, or down to 3 so it also knocks out Mammoths and MGGs? Move the tesla coil back to behind the barracks?

[Alstar]

Tesla coil feels to be least of problems. True, it denies two of four tank entrances to base, but recently i see rocket soldier teams (sometimes successfully) taking out coils from safety of tunnel.

 

Honestly, complex case would need POV from couple other players, not only me.

 

Okay, edit, tesla coil can cover 3 entrances, counting the one under bridge aswell.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Alstar

[Killing_You]

It's not the Tesla Coil that's a problem. If anything, it's the asymmetric layout of the bases, forcing Allies to run a long way to get to the Power Plant while the Soviets can just slip in without having to walk too far in the open. Not that it really matters, since the Gap Gen is easy to hit from the bridge. Not the case with the Coil. And then there's the matter of the Flame Tower being able to hold back a few tanks at a time, while Soviets pretty much laugh at the Pillbox (talking about War Factory side defenses here). Obviously addressing all of these would likely be overkill, but I think at least one of these could be fixed.

[Jeod]

I imagine with three players it won't mean much, but on Zama, I singlehandedly took a Captain, went to the rear of the Soviet base, killed two Flame Towers, and planted a flare on the roof of the Power Plant with Tesla Coil's vision blocked. I wiped out all production buildings. Would it be beneficial to replace the Flame Tower near the Missile Silo with a second Coil to have vision and reach toward that hill? Or do you think that would make the Soviets too OP?

[Pushwall]

On a map that they're already winning on and has no coil-less attack routes OTHER than that hill, absolutely yes it would make them too OP. If a captain takes out 2 of any defense by himself then clearly the enemy is not paying attention, and if he manages to scale a ladder without tripping a mine then that also means the enemy is not paying attention. Besides attacking the Power Plant, going behind it is the only thing that Allies can do prior to taking out the Power Plant, adding a coil there would mean there would be no strategies available to the Allies BUT to take out the Power Plant (without being allowed to go inside it either, so remove Tanyas and early ST rush from the already small list of ways they can do this). So the Soviets can just have an engineer sitting inside all game and GG until someone manages to get a flare in range of it, and maybe just sprint over to the coil in the rare instance a rush happens there instead.

[ganein14]

Are people forgetting that a solo arty can take out a coil with little effort if they all aim at it? To say nothing of three firing on it?

[Pushwall]

Two strategies still isn't an improvement when you consider all the directions and means the Soviets have to attack the Allied base.

[ganein14]

Then what about letting the Allies have a helipad while the soviets only get SAMs?

[Pushwall]

1. Not many of the VIS sectors account for you being able to have your camera >5m above ground. Neither do many of the out-of-bounds areas.

2. Where's the room for this helipad + refill pads in the Allied base?

3. How well did having aircraft work out on this map last time?

[Alstar]

It didnt work out. Undisarmable LB/Tanya attacks on coil anyone?

 

About zama, im amused that allies are often capable of demoing the tesla coil. Even in big games, i look carefully to spot any sneaky demos, then allied distraction attack comes and in same time demo.

 

But i agree, soviets have way more attack possibilities on this map. That turret on hill is probably biggest weakpoint because if its destroyed, soviets can simply siege from hill - and allied tanks have hard time getting there.

[Pushwall]

Demoing the coil is actually gone next build, it's impossible to pass vehicles through the forest at the base of the cliff - I made that change a month ago back when there was a big Allied lead. I could easily revert that though and I certainly will now that Soviets seem to be slightly ahead without even implementing it.

 

I'm thinking of moving the coil south-east to the tip of the cliff overlooking the gem/ore fields, giving Allies a new option in being able to attack the barracks from out of coil range, and making it harder for Soviets to repair the coil, so tank rushes to the coil may also be more of an option. However it'd mean that demos would still be unable to go under the cliff to sneak attack it even if I reverted the forest change, as the coil would be closer to the cliff and lower to water level - they would instead be able to drop a demo over the hill between the PP and barracks and detonate behind the walls/shipping containers though (but with a stringent time limit due to getting in coil range when close).

[TeamWolf]

 

What about Complex? Yesterday we had another game where soviets simply blocked all atacks without problems and kept Allies at bay. After one tank attack the only thing i seen were arty on bridges and attempts to sneak in with tanya/engi. Until server crashed.

 

Remove mammoths? Drop it down to tech level 4 for real so there's no Volkovs to hold the line, or down to 3 so it also knocks out Mammoths and MGGs? Move the tesla coil back to behind the barracks?

Dropping down to tech 3 would give the map a lot more of a chance for Allies.

[Alstar]

Then how about this: Include 2 copies of Complex, one with tier 3 and other kept without tier changes and make players play on Tier 3 version for couple of games, then gather feedback. In case if changes will not be any better, we could easily revert this by replacing tier 3 complex with normal one in rotation.

 

 

I know it might sound like a stupid idea, but i thought like writing it out, no matter if idea will be approved or not.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Alstar

[Pushwall]

I see the map as a lot like Under in how cramped its vehicle routes are, it just has more of them. Under was pretty horribly Soviet biased pre-Delta because good luck stopping the Hulkamania of Volkovs camping the plateau paving the way for Mammoths filling the field that you can't outmaneuver - only way was just to flood Tanyas and Engys down the tunnel (assuming anyone on your team knew about the obscure anti-mine mode of the wrench and also knew exactly how far you should stand from a mine to wrench it without dying). Now it lacks either of those.

[TeamWolf]

(assuming anyone on your team knew about the obscure anti-mine mode of the wrench and also knew exactly how far you should stand from a mine to wrench it without dying).

The Wrench did this?