A Path Beyond APB Delta Map Balance

[ganein14]

Actually probably a better idea would be to delete those deep snow meshes. They do not play well with mines at all because the only things that can hit a mine buried completely inside them are things with penetrative splash damage (arties, v2s, flamers, and that's it)

Also phase tanks and tank shells and rockets

[Pushwall]

Seamist:

THREE WORDS

Soviet Starting Credits

If the soviets had enough money for an RS or Caps from the get go, the allies wouldn't be able to intimidate the soviets for the first 5-8min of the map.

 

It takes a mere 7 seconds for the silo to boost your starting credits up to the point that you can buy kapitans, and 13 to buy RPGs, which is about as much time as it takes to walk from the WF/CY (if you spawn there) over to the Barracks, or even just to get out of the CY basement, so what are you even talking about? Maybe Soviets could start with a supply truck or two to quickly field their infantry I guess.

 

Pacific threat:

Also submerged vehicles are nearly impossible to kill from the air.

 

Submerged subs take double damage from LBs next version (20 per rocket) so shooting them while they're submerged will definitely deter them if you have any gunboats around to finish them off.

[gammae102]

Seamist: My original thought was to maybe get rid of the Allied Helipad, but the Allies don't have too robust of a base as it is. Plus, the Soviets still having Hinds would complicate that. I will say I think the Allies should have an AA gun or two removed. Also, maybe the Allied Ore Silos should be moved to a more vulnerable position to help the Soviets out. The other possibility would be a simple time extension. Making the Allies survive another 5 minutes would definitely help the Soviets.

[Raptor29aa]

One quick question has anyone tried to use a naval transport on under? I have yet to see someone buy one and use it.

(I will admit they are hard to steer)

Edited February 27, 2016 by Raptor29aa

[Pushwall]

I see the Soviets use them sometimes when there's no Allied navy or naval yard. Not so much the Allies who have to go through a nigh-unassailable flame tower for the 2 optimal landing spots (the sub pen and the Barracks pier, both of which can't be AP mined). Though back in 3.0.1.0 when the Medic MP5 was OP as fuck (it was basically a PKM on a class that also had the almighty medic kit and high speed) I remember partaking in a brazen 4-medic LST rush that landed on the ore silo beach and proceeded to decimate the entire Soviet base.

[Raap]

Seamist: My original thought was to maybe get rid of the Allied Helipad, but the Allies don't have too robust of a base as it is. Plus, the Soviets still having Hinds would complicate that. I will say I think the Allies should have an AA gun or two removed. Also, maybe the Allied Ore Silos should be moved to a more vulnerable position to help the Soviets out. The other possibility would be a simple time extension. Making the Allies survive another 5 minutes would definitely help the Soviets.

 

Minelayer removal should do the trick. Currently the Allied team is too dependent on that one single Minelayer anyhow. The Minelayer could get replaced with a new Artillery in one of the reinforcement waves.

[Killing_You]

I agree. By the time the Soviets have money for tanks, the Allies have already covered the area with mines, which pretty much makes early pushes almost fruitless. I feel like getting rid of the Minelayer would honestly go a long way. Sure, you still have the issue of rocket soldiers on the hill, but in the midst of a proper push, the Soviets could fly in a Hind and make short work of the pest.

[FRAYDO]

I'm not so sure about removing the Allied Minelayer. As dependent as they are on it, it certainly helps, and losing it is a big blow to them. Yeah the area can get riddled with mines but I mean, that's what V2 rockets are for.

 

(If you see the opportunity, V2 snipe the Minelayer as well.)

[Einstein]

Save the mine layer for one of the later reinforcement waves then?

[FRAYDO]

I can get behind Einstein's proposal.

[Killing_You]

That seems like a good idea. That way if the field gets covered in mines, it's the Soviets fault for not pressing the initiative, rather than being forced to wait for money to come in while the field gets mined.

[Pushwall]

I really like that idea. Especially since next version AT mines are going to be a fair bit more powerful due to an increased trigger radius - currently it's so small that tanks can sometimes drive right over them, making them pretty underwhelming on other maps.

[gammae102]

Realistically, if the Soviets actually try and take to the field with Kaptains and RPGs to try and stop the Mine Layer rather than sit in their base and twiddle their thumbs until they have money for V2's, it's not that hard to stop it. I just think the Mine Layer will be virtually useless once shocks are out in the field.

 

Really, the more I think about it, the more I think it's best just to give the Soviets another 5 minutes to get the Radar Dome. At the very least, see how much a few extra minutes would sway the balance and then if it's still not enough, try something more radical.

[GeneralCamo]

I like the clearing charges. Maybe make them effective against Hedgehogs too so we don't need to shoot at them for two minutes to get anywhere...

[delta]

Oh, so if you park your transport by the dock and exit, it'll actually dump you on the dock itself and not in the water? I was wondering whether it would do that on Coastal Influence the other day, but didn't want to risk my Volkov, lol.

 

Also hedgehogs go down with one C4, though you have to make sure you land it on the hedgehog itself and not somewhere close.

[Pushwall]

I believe the Naval Transport exit point (when you press "E" or whatever you have assigned to get outside of a vehicle?) is directly in front of the ship. So if you wanna unload passengers, aim forward. Am I correct?

Yeah, and since the targeting reticle is always aimed at the front since the LST obviously doesn't have a turret, you can use that to be sure about where you'll get off too.

[Raptor29aa]

I believe the Naval Transport exit point (when you press "E" or whatever you have assigned to get outside of a vehicle?) is directly in front of the ship. So if you wanna unload passengers, aim forward. Am I correct?

You inspired me to use the naval transport against the allies on under.

 

other side of Naval yard is a sweet spot for killing the war factory 😉

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Raptor29aa

[Pushwall]

Status update: a bunch of uneven maps managed to even out without the aid of a patch. Seems some people are mad that their team is looking bad on some maps. (Totally has nothing to do with more games meaning more chances for the underdog to strike back. )

• Camos is now 17 Allies 10 Soviets (62.96% Allied favour)
• Coastal is now 8 Allies 16 Soviets (66.67% Soviet favour)
• KOTG is now 10 Allies 12 Soviets (54.55% Soviet favour)
• Pacific is now 8 Allies 10 Soviets (55.56% Soviet favour)
• Pipeline is now 13 Allies 10 Soviets (56.52% Allied favour)
• Zama is now 13 Allies 12 Soviets (52% Allied favour)
• Under is now 6 Allies 17 Soviets (73.91% Soviet favour)... well hey it's getting there!

On the other hand though Guard Duty's being crushed by the Soviets now at 6 Allies to 15 Soviets (71.43% Soviet favour)...

[devilslayersbane]

Hey, Pushwall, If you want, depending on how detailed you want, I could see what I can do for detailed analysis of these statistics. Does the server log kill messages? That would be insanely helpful.

[Raap]

I just remember something; On Pacific Threat, the submarine tunnel has a projectile blocker which prevents depth charges from hitting subs. This effectively results in Missile Subs getting a safe-zone from which they can hit the Allied base.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Raap

[Pushwall]

There is no projectile blocker there, it's probably just the huge projectile extension on depth charges causing them to hit the side of the tunnel. See also: Naval combat around the glaciers on Hostile Waters. Taking those two into consideration... jeez fine I'll make them fire out of the cannon again. Never mind, that would involve allowing the cannon to aim so low that they'd still be worthless compared to the cannon.

[Pushwall]

Does the server log kill messages? That would be insanely helpful.

 

I could dredge them up from IRC but that'd only be helpful for the handful of games that I've actually been around to log IRC messages for.

[devilslayersbane]

Hrmmm... Well, still, that would give a little insight into to what kills what the most and how losing different buildings effects a games outcome (i.e. Approxomately how long from losing x-building could you expect to lose).

[Raptor29aa]

Hrmmm... Well, still, that would give a little insight into to what kills what the most and how losing different buildings effects a games outcome (i.e. Approxomately how long from losing x-building could you expect to lose).

Hmm... With that detailed info you would be like an APB sports analyst. Looking at the team, the attack strategies, the amount of players on the field, and the play-by- play of unit purchases.

[devilslayersbane]

 

Hrmmm... Well, still, that would give a little insight into to what kills what the most and how losing different buildings effects a games outcome (i.e. Approxomately how long from losing x-building could you expect to lose).

Hmm... With that detailed info you would be like an APB sports analyst. Looking at the team, the attack strategies, the amount of players on the field, and the play-by- play of unit purchases.

 

While specific vehicle vs inf battles I would care less about, I would focus on what buildings are the most detrimental to lose on maps. Typically one would assume that losing your primary economy would do this, however you could also find that losing your production would hamper protection of this. It could be argued that on some maps the Power plant is the primary building of focus. However, with out actual stats to compile and analyze, I would not be able to know. And while I don't doubt pushwall's own ability to do this on his own, I do quite enjoy activities such as this, so I am fully willing to do it.

[ChopBam]

Maybe I shouldn't be the guy to say it, but perhaps the time limit could be increased on certain large maps, like KOTG? From what I remember, they used to be 35 min instead of 30. Today I was able to destroy a couple defenses and both gap generators, but I felt with more time I could have accomplished more.

 

There are also so many routes to take and potential things to do that it rarely gets boring. At least for me. Sincerely, the biased guy.

[Raap]

Maybe I shouldn't be the guy to say it, but perhaps the time limit could be increased on certain large maps, like KOTG? From what I remember, they used to be 35 min instead of 30. Today I was able to destroy a couple defenses and both gap generators, but I felt with more time I could have accomplished more.

 

There are also so many routes to take and potential things to do that it rarely gets boring. At least for me. Sincerely, the biased guy.

 

Don't do that unless you implement a mechanic that ends the game in situations where both teams lose all main production buildings. It'd just prolong a boring match even more, and empty the server, something which unfortunately does happen. If you did implement such a mechanic, though, then I agree that large maps need 5-10 minutes extra play time.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Raap

[TeamWolf]

 

Maybe I shouldn't be the guy to say it, but perhaps the time limit could be increased on certain large maps, like KOTG? From what I remember, they used to be 35 min instead of 30. Today I was able to destroy a couple defenses and both gap generators, but I felt with more time I could have accomplished more.

 

There are also so many routes to take and potential things to do that it rarely gets boring. At least for me. Sincerely, the biased guy.

 

Don't do that unless you implement a mechanic that ends the game in situations where both teams lose all main production buildings. It'd just prolong a boring match even more, and empty the server, something which unfortunately does happen. If you did implement such a mechanic, though, then I agree that large maps need 5-10 minutes extra play time.

 

 

I got to agree with Raap, it would be dire if it was a boring stalemate for that long. The great thing about keeping the map times on the short, even more so in big maps, means that it keeps it's great pace of gameplay and given how many routes there are to take, it would be mean different things happen each game.

[ChopBam]

Re-enable !vote cyclemap ??

[FRAYDO]

What if there were some type of time-extending item that can be found in the KOTG house? Say, five minutes are left and this one-time only item is spawned inside the house for grabs. It can be picked up by anyone and five minutes is then added to the timer.