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Actually wait, how did you get 2 hands? I thought dual wield isn't possible in W3D engine?

 

Never seen Renegade's Remote C4?

 

First person and third person animations are 2 very different things. First person animations don't have to deal with things like a single gun bone that is anchored to a specific part of the character's body and would cause guns intended for the other hand to flail all over the place instead.

 

Also those two hands don't have two separate guns that are expected to fire in alternation. Some tool or armament in one hand and a scope/binoculars/detonator in the other is just about the only sensible way to do first-person dual-wielding in this engine because it gets around the issue of "only one firing animation". :v

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If I remember correctly the Spy in RA2 also functioned like a thief. How will this be handled/balanced? Will they be limited or something else?

Some buildings behave different when "hacked" by the Spy. Right now for the Refinery, when the Spy attaches the device, instead of shutting the Ref down this happens:

Every second, 1% of the soviet team's cash is stolen instantly and distributed between the allied players. Since it's always 1% of the "current soviet money", the amount rewired is less and less every second (but increases if the War Miner dumps ore).

 

Hacking devices can be disarmed by Technicians/Engineers to stop the effects.

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If I remember correctly the Spy in RA2 also functioned like a thief. How will this be handled/balanced? Will they be limited or something else?

Some buildings behave different when "hacked" by the Spy. Right now for the Refinery, when the Spy attaches the device, instead of shutting the Refinery down this happens:

Every second, 1% of the soviet team's cash is stolen instantly and distributed between the allied players. Since it's always 1% of the "current soviet money", the amount rewired is less and less every second (but increases if the War Miner dumps ore).

 

Hacking devices can be disarmed by Technicians/Engineers to stop the effects.

 

 

I did a little math on that using Excel. If Soviets ignore this for 1 minute, they effectively lose 45% of their original money. If 2 minutes, then 70% of their original money.

 

Edited by des1206
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Some buildings behave different when "hacked" by the Spy. Right now for the Refinery, when the Spy attaches the device, instead of shutting the Refinery down this happens:

Every second, 1% of the soviet team's cash is stolen instantly and distributed between the allied players. Since it's always 1% of the "current soviet money", the amount rewired is less and less every second (but increases if the War Miner dumps ore).

 

Hacking devices can be disarmed by Technicians/Engineers to stop the effects.

 

I did a little math on that using Excel. If Soviets ignore this for 1 minute, they effectively lose 45% of their original money. If 2 minutes, then 70% of their original money.

 

The soviets get an announcement that their money is being stolen so they can act on it or slowly lose their money.
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Is there a timer on that? What if nobody is at the base? Soviets could be planning a massive attack on the Allies and the Spy uses the time to hack the refinery. That's a poor risk/reward mechanism, but that's what testers are for.

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Is there a timer on that? What if nobody is at the base? Soviets could be planning a massive attack on the Allies and the Spy uses the time to hack the refinery. That's a poor risk/reward mechanism, but that's what testers are for.

We can always do what the APB Thief does, steal 50% instantly, that's what happens in RA2. I just thought this would be more fair as he can do many other things in the enemy base.

 

We also tried a logic where the Spy must go back to the friendly refinery to deposit the stolen money but he NEVER got out of the soviet base alive after stealing so that idea was dropped and this current one is in place now :)

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Is there a timer on that? What if nobody is at the base? Soviets could be planning a massive attack on the Allies and the Spy uses the time to hack the refinery. That's a poor risk/reward mechanism, but that's what testers are for.

We can always do what the APB Thief does, steal 50% instantly, that's what happens in RA2. I just thought this would be more fair as he can do many other things in the enemy base.
I'm hesitant to preach RA2-lism for many reasons, but it's not to difficult to visualize what kind of balance/imbalance we'd have in a game of 10-14 players. I'm all for testing both methods. Gives the spy a good opportunity to stay in the refinery and defend the hack node.

 

Better yet, throw the hack node thing into the APB server for a day or two and let technicians and golden wrenches fix it. That'll give you more data for balance testing, won't it?

Edited by Jeod
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THEY ARE MAN! Could you port the scripts over to A Path Beyond so we could have the same system bots during low player counts? Or would you have to really modify every single map to have something even close to your system?

 

I guess you've never been around for the times Camos Canyon Bots got put on the server and seen how all bots flood down the very same path and vehicle bots don't know how to not bump into each other. Which means they will happily block ore trucks. This is only slightly solved in camos by how all of the vehicle bots spawn in front of the ore fields instead of their own base so they won't drive into their own ore truck's path, but when one team gets the upper hand they'll still unwittingly block the other team's ore truck. Plus it means when you're sieging the enemy base from outside, enemy vehicles will spawn behind you, which is no fun at all.

 

Also look at the screenshots and notice how there is basically no scenery for bots to get stuck on.

 

Also the proliferation of respawning infantry bots = killwhore heaven, as they are still infantry and therefore count as kills. I'm just about pushing the reasonable limit for this with AI ore truck technicians.

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If I took the time to make a bunch of specialised pathfind blockers for each map they could have them, but then we end up with ore truck shenanigans like the ones I pointed out in the thread for the first patch that contained River Raid. I originally wanted to make a Bots version of that map too, but with pathfind generating across the entire map, the Soviet ore truck's path went awry after leaving the base; rather than going straight to the ore field from there, it would drive around the right side of the bridge, into the river, then all the way left through the river, passing by the gem field and finally going back into the ore field, taking at least an extra minute per trip - restricting the pathfind to just the intended OT path prevented this. So I'd also have to make sure every map's ore trucks are behaving properly - and adding pathfind blockers to prevent such things from happening would also prevent other AI units from moving through areas I don't want the ore truck moving through too. While I don't have to completely block off the main field from pathfinding (just block it off enough for the OT to see that the shorter route is in fact shorter), that just means there's a lot less potential routes for units to path through, making the traffic-jammage even more severe than on Camos considering there's even less room to move around on that map already compared to Camos.

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ah shit. With all the problems you just listed, I wonder how Apocalypse Rising gets around all of these issues then?

By spending the time APB devs spend with VIS setup on pathfind fine-tuning.

 

Making sure bots shoot correctly, and aimbot hardcore.... kinda like zunnie's older bots before he dun goofed it up and made that glitch where you could crouch walk towards a bot and take no damage.

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SO what, are the bots like SUPER accurate, and a total chore to deal with in game? Or are they actually pleasant to have on your side/fight against?

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh a little bit of both. BUT they still have dumb pathfinding.

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It can be....interesting to say the least. MPRA2 might have more to say on that xD

They are my worst nightmare..

 

git gud skrubloard. In all seriousness though, if you circle strafe around them and they don't have a hitscan weapon, you'll be dodging about half of what they're shooting at you. Still a lethal amount if you're out numbered three to one.

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