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Interim Apex 2019 November/Winter Build

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Draft Interim Apex 2019 November/Winter Build

Draft? :v

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6 minutes ago, Nodlied said:

Draft? :v

Fixed hey thanks lol, when one is too tired and copy paste forget to make amendments.

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5 hours ago, Kaskins said:

Nod MSA has been relocated to cost 1550 and set to tier 2.
 

Nope, it can't be built at all. At least not on the winter map with the dams.

 

The small icon at the side is there but you can't switch to it, only the 3 other vehicles appear alternating

Edited by der Papst

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9 hours ago, Kaskins said:

Ezekiel Turn rate increase from 0.4 to 0.41
Ezekiel Missile Turn Rate reduce from 100 to 85.
Ezekiel Missile now fire 1 at a time instead of 2 at a time.

finally the EZ rushes are going to be decreased by 10 percent  also i love the new map

Edited by thedisclaimitory
I added more to the post

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C&C_Vile_Facility_E06 is current map on the server, however attempting to load in results in all the text in the loading screen being "TDBRR" and upon completion of loading, the game crashes instantly with an error message. I've tried repairing the install, and I just uninstalled and am now reinstalling IA, though I don't expect it to help honestly.

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13 hours ago, LexieAssassin said:

Mentioning a bug

Reinstalling should help though as "TDBRR" is a bug occuring in corrupted downloads/installs. These can happen randomly and are not W3D-specific.

The new map looks gorgeous. A coop-variant could be awesome.

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Broken update. Dragon TOW rocket, that applyed to Nod bike, now worth nothing. And there are buffed OP mamonth tank railgun 120? Why? Actually GDI should be nerfed well and Nod need buff well. So, for exemple, flame tank. Almost anyone doesn't use it. Every Nod Flames need buff. What about GDI? Well, almast everything here deals too many damage.

Really, this update made game unfair.

Edited by shoverno2

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On 12/7/2019 at 10:16 PM, shoverno2 said:

Broken update. Dragon TOW rocket, that applyed to Nod bike, now worth nothing. And there are buffed OP mamonth tank railgun 120? Why? Actually GDI should be nerfed well and Nod need buff well. So, for exemple, flame tank. Almost anyone doesn't use it. Every Nod Flames need buff. What about GDI? Well, almast everything here deals too many damage.

Really, this update made game unfair.

Hi @shoverno2 thank you for the heads up. I will take this feedback into account regarding Nod being underwhelming to use. I perhaps maybe went to far and astray of that initial starting idea that GDI is easy to play than Nod. Fret not as the upcoming build will see some tweak in Nod Arsenal, for further update and patch notes do refer to the above change logs as I will update it time to time.

My apology for the late response.

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3 hours ago, Kaskins said:

Hi @shoverno2 thank you for the heads up. I will take this feedback into account regarding Nod being underwhelming to use. I perhaps maybe went to far and astray of that initial starting idea that GDI is easy to play than Nod. Fret not as the upcoming build will see some tweak in Nod Arsenal, for further update and patch notes do refer to the above change logs as I will update it time to time.

My apology for the late response.

You don't need to apologise, it's surprising for me that my feedback usable for someone)

Yeah, playing for GDI just like playing tapper game and using OP things, while playing for Nod associated as dark souls game play. Nod units good at speed, GDI units good AT EVERYTHING. Most annoying thing is that usually GDI team starting using something unstoppable. Every Nod vehicles has its own and unique use, when almost every GDI vehicles is well fast fat strong custles on the wheels. So, Nod team starting to use every single vehicle and loosing alot. It's actually also because of there no wiki. As soon as possible i planning to improve "Tacitus". But for now battles not balanced because of lack of information.

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In response to January 29th changelog. 
 

- I’m fine with the Bernardini going to Medium armor, but it’s armor should be increased at least back to 400 if that’s going to happen. 

- Not sure if Strid was buffed or nerfed from the previous patch by the way. It doesn’t seem like it needed a reload speed nerf or a damage increase. It just needs to be easier to aim and it would be a great unit.

- Hind overhaul and gun overhauls are very big. 
- I’m not sure which Comanche had its gun changed, I’m assuming the Escort? It should have had its gun buffed if anything, it’s very useless at anything except headshotting infantry because it’s so flimsy if anything shoots back you die, and unlike the anti tank variant it doesn’t kill anything in a reasonable amount of time that wasn’t already almost dead.

- Gun changes to the Apache and Orca are fine, honestly. The Escorts should be anti air, and the Anti Tank should require their missiles to kill tanks. 
 

- Hind. Very big change. The only issue with them was how durable they were, and how long ranged they were. I’m not sure the gun itself needed changing. I do like the ammo change, however. I would have to see how it plays out now but it looks overnerfed against vehicles, which it wasn’t super good at killing before unless they were light tanks.

 

 

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So, playing around with the Hind. I only have a couple problems with it. 
- One, it's way too durable. However, I think you're over-nerfing its durability. It's VERY slow, just in general but especially by air unit standards. It cannot retreat. 
- Two, it's got really good range, much higher than the other air unit's guns and higher than the ORCA Fighter's tracking range. 
- Three is just a QoL thing. It shouldn't shoot invisible bullets and not make splash. That makes it sorta hard to guesstimate how far its range actually is in practice, but it absolutely shreds through ORCA well before they can engage you, and you even outrange a few units like the Hover MLRS in practice, and since it has Medium armor Stingers barely even tickle you. I don't think it should have Light armor, and buffing Stinger against it would probably make Stinger even dumber against Apache and Comanche too.

 

So to my point I would suggest really only nerfing its health. 760/760 seems decent. I would also say it could use a minor reduction in range, to effectively on par with the ORCA Fighter, about 10m higher at max range. I do like the idea of it going to 80 ammo per salvo, but I think you should only have the 240 ammo in reserve as it does now. I would also say the gun should do 15 steel damage and 10 splash shrapnel damage. 2.7 steel damage is too low, it would make the thing useless almost useless against the ORCA Fighter and fairly worthless against tanks in general. It kind of is, you can do a little bit of damage, but the real problem is you can do that damage largely without retaliation, which is why I would suggest a range nerf more than a damage nerf. But yes its steel damage is in general a little too high. My last suggestion would be to only reduce the fire damage to about 75, instead of 41. The total fire damage reduction is enormous, and makes the unit very bad at killing buildings. If nothing else, Nod should have an air unit very good at doing that, like GDI does the ORCA Bomber. Gutting it down to requrining at least four Hinds to kill a building under repairs is a big overnerf. The flame shot at least requires Hinds get close due to its tiny range. 

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Keep Hind how it is currently in the normal server with a little reduction in health. It's an awesome fun unit. A slight nerf in Hind vs building is ok. Although if one Hind can camp a building then they deserve whatever happens to them.

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I like the hind bu it takes the AA Specialist 8 shots to kill it In that time you dead and buried. Not sure it should have that much shield?

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Long time powder user first time writer

Just some general feedbacks:
- The Wolverine is hilariously bad. Like, okay, its weapon has a big mag, great range, strong against weak armored stuffs. That said, the vehicle itself is SLOW AF and easy to kill just by ramming it with literally anything, but I'm sure you're looking into that internally.

- I know both teams have the heavy weapon boost upgrade, but for what it is, and definitely on the PIC side, is that it's just straight bonkers. Three PICs or Shocks with that upgrade can steamroll a building in seconds, and if an techy or two isn't in there IMMEDIATELY it's dead and there's nothing you can do. Honestly, I think this needs to be rethought because it doesn't take much coordination once the upgrade is bought. It definitely feels a bit stronger in GDI hands, though, as the PIC and battle suit are both stronger than the Shock Trooper overall.

- Nod definitely needs a boost in the non-stealth department. Once you've got a bit of money and don't have to farm cash with the Ol' Faithful (Wiesel), your options are more or less going with artillery units, or grabbing a Stealth/Ezek/Infrared. Good options, but things like the Super Tank, Flame Tanks, etc. all feel pretty useless in comparison.

- EMP grenades are annoying af. I dunno, might not need to be changed but they're definitely a big pain in the ass.

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Vile Facility is one of my most favorite maps, but...when playing as Nod it feels like their base design is full of entrances and no away to cover all of them. Unlike Nod, the GDI base has the tunnels, behind the barracks, the back entrance, and the front entrance (left and right share this space). (4 entrances) But with Nod you have Tunnels, entrance by the HoN, Front Left, Front Right + side entrance to Forgotten Refinery, and back left to air field/power plant and back right to Forgotten Refinery. (I’ll just say 6 entrances) And to top it off Nod doesn’t have much a Sea Counter to ATADs/Mrls when it comes to capturing the Forgotten Silos.

-Other than the above... favorite map

 

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On 2/8/2020 at 2:00 AM, DVD Player said:

Yeah you should try some of that power, can't remember the name.

Just some general feedbacks:
- The Wolverine is hilariously bad. Like, okay, its weapon has a big mag, great range, strong against weak armored stuffs. That said, the vehicle itself is SLOW AF and easy to kill just by ramming it with literally anything, but I'm sure you're looking into that internally.

- I know both teams have the heavy weapon boost upgrade, but for what it is, and definitely on the PIC side, is that it's just straight bonkers. Three PICs or Shocks with that upgrade can steamroll a building in seconds, and if an techy or two isn't in there IMMEDIATELY it's dead and there's nothing you can do. Honestly, I think this needs to be rethought because it doesn't take much coordination once the upgrade is bought. It definitely feels a bit stronger in GDI hands, though, as the PIC and battle suit are both stronger than the Shock Trooper overall.

- Nod definitely needs a boost in the non-stealth department. Once you've got a bit of money and don't have to farm cash with the Ol' Faithful (Wiesel), your options are more or less going with artillery units, or grabbing a Stealth/Ezek/Infrared. Good options, but things like the Super Tank, Flame Tanks, etc. all feel pretty useless in comparison.

- EMP grenades are annoying af. I dunno, might not need to be changed but they're definitely a big pain in the ass.

Spoiler

Partner

- Wolverine is actually pretty OP. Going to nerf it some more.

- There isn't much you can do when that amount of teamwork. Whilst it's a shame that 3-4 People can kill a building.. it's apart of the game. Proxie mines, denying your enemy Economy, snipers/vehicles and buildable defenses can all help to prevent this. You can also just blow up the enemies barracks when you get a chance.

- I believe this in the same regard. After a certain point, getting a stealth unit really is the only option to survive long term and deal good damage in the field. Unless you're doing a specialty rush or something consisting of arty which further backs up your point. Although to be fair, the Flame Tank is great when the opportunity presents itself. The Super Tank for Nod is a great way to spearhead a rush and is incredibly deadly in close combat or when you need something to take hits in a rush.

While not complete, don't forget to check out the Tacitus to read more on Tactics for units and stratagies. There is a map guide as well.

 

On 2/2/2020 at 11:37 PM, Kickmofo said:

I like the hind bu it takes the AA Specialist 8 shots to kill it In that time you dead and buried. Not sure it should have that much shield?

Use the Styrker AGTM. With the nerf's to Hinds you can kill them now with this unit.

 

On 2/8/2020 at 7:47 PM, Raptor29aa said:

(Vile Facility) And to top it off Nod doesn’t have much a Sea Counter to ATADs/Mrls when it comes to capturing the Forgotten Silos.

Actually, the best course of action as Nod is to drive to the Forgotten Silos. Go to the left side (Hon side) with a buggy and techie. Get to the middle and capture the turret above. The turret along with the Electric Tiberium Puff Zapper will help hold the position for you. Then go towards the water and there will be a small cliff. You can then use this to capture the silos. Although it is best to make sure there is no GDI presence or have GDI capture the silos (Hide) and then put a timed C4 on each silo. Blow them up and capture them.

 

@ all reading this.

The Infared Tank was also updated with a much faster firing main laser. The damage however for it is toned down a bit. The charge laser I believe stays the same.

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All of Nod’s high tier tanks except the Stingray are really fantastic. The Black Eagle has an issue with a weakpoint but it has an immense range, deals decent damage and it’s fast.

The 120mm Tick Tank is a bad T-62 on the move but deploying it turns it into probably the most overpowered unit in the game. On top of having ridiculously high range like the Black Eagle when you deploy, you also gain a massive boost to your rate of fire and effectively have something like 2500/2500 hit points due to the armor type change. You can solo a 36 inch mammoth or fight two Railgun Mammoths and win. If Nod ever spams this unit they effectively become unbreakable and I fully believe the Tick Tank will eventually become so FotM it’s going to get overnerfed in the future  

The Tunguska is the best AA unit in the game bar none, and even has use against tanks, but it’s not an MBT don’t try to use it as one. You’re AA/Support. The strongest AA/Support in the game. 
 

The Koskan is great. Simple as.

The Infared Tank is a great infantry killer and okay against tanks. Ezeks are kind of the opposite, but also die in about three shots. I kind of wish they would get further nerfed not because I think they’re OP but because Nod’s arsenal for the late game is incredibly good and plays to Nod’s strengths of being a skirmisher/defensive faction but all everyone wants to do is run around invisible and make it impossible for GDI to pick anything that doesn’t have 1000 health and heavy armor. 

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On 2/11/2020 at 8:00 AM, Threve said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Partner

- There isn't much you can do when that amount of teamwork. Whilst it's a shame that 3-4 People can kill a building.. it's apart of the game. Proxie mines, denying your enemy Economy, snipers/vehicles and buildable defenses can all help to prevent this. You can also just blow up the enemies barracks when you get a chance.

Disagree. No infantry should be able to destroy a building so quickly and effectively without having to get near it. Proxie mines are of no use in preventing this because the PICs don't need to get in the buildings, and the mine limits prevent your team from covering both buildings and all vantage points to your base, and pretty much every map is full of places that a Sydney or Shock Trooper can go where they're out of sight of defenses and are in range to destroy a building.

Most other teamwork options are something you can effectively defend against with teamwork, especially on the vehicle end. Vehicles are large, easy to spot, have to take the main lanes. Even the stealth tanks, chances are your teammates out on the field are going to spot a rush coming or the sensor arrays are going to reveal them. There are ways that a team, or smart teammates, can play smart to prevent larger tactics and at the least give their team a fighting chance.

But a PIC/shock rush is different. Infantry are much harder to notice, and while you can mine a base to stop people from rushing into buildings with explosives, there's only so much you can do to prevent people from taking one of many vantage points to take out a building. Beacons announce their placement and show up on the radar, giving ample time for the team to close in on them and stop them. Upgraded PICs? They melt a building in ten seconds and there's nothing you can do about it.

It's just not a fair upgrade. Infantry shouldn't be able to just utterly demolish buildings from the outside like that, and I seriously don't think it should be possible. "A part of the game" is something you say when someone is complaining about another person using a cheap strategy, and people are absolutely allowed to use them like that, but it's not something you say when the discussion is about balancing their effectiveness. Yes, it's a part of the game, which is why I'm arguing we change it.

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2 hours ago, DVD Player said:

Disagree. No infantry should be able to destroy a building so quickly and effectively without having to get near it. Proxie mines are of no use in preventing this because the PICs don't need to get in the buildings, and the mine limits prevent your team from covering both buildings and all vantage points to your base, and pretty much every map is full of places that a Sydney or Shock Trooper can go where they're out of sight of defenses and are in range to destroy a building.

Most other teamwork options are something you can effectively defend against with teamwork, especially on the vehicle end. Vehicles are large, easy to spot, have to take the main lanes. Even the stealth tanks, chances are your teammates out on the field are going to spot a rush coming or the sensor arrays are going to reveal them. There are ways that a team, or smart teammates, can play smart to prevent larger tactics and at the least give their team a fighting chance.

But a PIC/shock rush is different. Infantry are much harder to notice, and while you can mine a base to stop people from rushing into buildings with explosives, there's only so much you can do to prevent people from taking one of many vantage points to take out a building. Beacons announce their placement and show up on the radar, giving ample time for the team to close in on them and stop them. Upgraded PICs? They melt a building in ten seconds and there's nothing you can do about it.

It's just not a fair upgrade. Infantry shouldn't be able to just utterly demolish buildings from the outside like that, and I seriously don't think it should be possible. "A part of the game" is something you say when someone is complaining about another person using a cheap strategy, and people are absolutely allowed to use them like that, but it's not something you say when the discussion is about balancing their effectiveness. Yes, it's a part of the game, which is why I'm arguing we change it.

I played a match on Mt.Pass whereupon 4 PICs hit the Nod Ref and did barely any damage. Furthermore, a tech repaired it and it was impossible to destroy. By this logic, 8 P.I.C.s vs a CY and 2 Techs can repair a building indefinitely. Which I believe is unfair.

The point is that teamwork is unfair and will always prevail. It also takes teamwork to win a game even when you blow up a GDI base mostly. Don't want 8 people ramming your base and taking out a building?

- Shoot the Chinook or APC down before they reach your base and constantly be scouting. Because they cant swim you'll kill 8 people if you're lucky.

- Build base defenses/Turrets.

- Plant proxies in tunnels.

- Get a Nod Fanatics

- Camp with a Koksan or Peony wherever you think they will land.

- Blow up the enemy Barracks.

- Deny GDI money.

 

Honestly, the PICs cost 1750 each (1,000 if you want to die in 4 seconds). In addition, the upgraded heavy weapons is the most expensive upgrade as well. I don't understand how you can say it's unfair for 4 people or so to blow up a building when driving across the map unstealthed or running in a huge column. Better yet, all the PIC rushes are well known through the maps and are done late game giving you ample time to prepare.

Mt. Pass - Map is beyond unbalanced. Not a good example, however PIC rushes happen in the tunnel above ref or at Nod PP. Buy SA-8 gekos and turrets to blow up chinooks and block off tunnels as a sapper while calling in !support. Hell just build some Anti Tank mines as well to ruin their day inside the tunnels.

Industrial Strength - PIC rushes are uncommon here. If they occur it's because your team was going to lose anyways/lost obelisk.

Infinite Isle - PIC rushes occur in the tunnels. So mine them by throwing proxie mines above so they get stuck inside the rock/invisible (You can also build turrets here and block the pathway and call support). PIC rushes also happen on the mountain, so have a Anti Tank Comanche to kill any Chinook and have the PICs fall to their death. Constantly play as a laser chain gunner.

Winter Ass - Just block the tunnels with 5000 barriers. Put proxie mines to if you'd like and a shit ton of turrets. Park a Koksan there (power plant) so that whenever your team says there is a rush coming in you can just murder them all at once.

Orca Heights - Just mine the ladder leading to your base or kill anyone in the field with a L.C.G. who is rushing you through the middle.

Mt.Bog - Mine. The. Tunnels. Block the entrances as well with a dumb amount of barriers. Call in !support in the tunnels and encourage your team as well. Usually Roh6 will be firing a Koksan for an hour into the tunnels anyways so you'll be fine in the middle corridors.

Suspense - PICs will run up in the ladders to your base 9/10 times. just be a laser chain gunner in the field and when you see this bullshit burn them to death. The LCG massive range and burn damage will kill them from afar.

PIC rushes are typically a result of Nod blowing up a GDI building and getting cocky or near the end game and not paying attention and covering these obvious areas where they know GDI can/will PIC rush.. or being in the field without any real hold and just fucking off. If one PIC rush happens, another one will be guaranteed to happen right after it.

 

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Any map other than Mt Pass allows for a counterplay to PICs. As Threve says, try pitting 4 LCGs against 4 Mobius Suits and watch the PICs melt. In 5 seconds.

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nah just aim for the head when up against a pic it always worked for me as a free rifle unit and swith to secondary pistol when out of ammo in your ammo clip/mag and aim for the head ive found it very useful when facing one or two pics  

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@KaskinsI think we should consider adding the Toxin tractor back to nod as nod really needs a good pure anti infantry unit similar to gdis zippo. 

 

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4 minutes ago, dblaney1 said:

@KaskinsI think we should consider adding the Toxin tractor back to nod as nod really needs a good pure anti infantry unit similar to gdis zippo. 

 

I've recommended this before. I never played with the Toxin Tractor but I would recommend making it the exact same stats as the Zippo so people don't complain about it (again).

 

14 hours ago, thedisclaimitory said:

nah just aim for the head when up against a pic it always worked for me as a free rifle unit and swith to secondary pistol when out of ammo in your ammo clip/mag and aim for the head ive found it very useful when facing one or two pics  


Aim for the head, excellent advice. Thank you.

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8 hours ago, dblaney1 said:

@KaskinsI think we should consider adding the Toxin tractor back to Nod as Nod really needs a good pure anti infantry unit similar to gdis zippo. 

Common sense prevails :)

 

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Can we also get some basic in-game rules because the mods all have different interpretations and we should be showing consistency:

Some things that spring to mind 

  • What defines B2B - Show screenshots of illegal B2B
  • Building on top of maps and firing into enemy base - Show screenshots
  • Harassment
  • Racism 
  • Sounds abuse - I like to spam a few times but what constitutes a few time? 5,6,7,8 times??
  • AFK time and time again. Can we please get a script that kicks a player that doesn't move for more the 2 mins?
  • Team Balance - Team balance for mods to balance the team until a building is destroyed or make that automated 

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Thoughts on the current patch:

- Un nerf the Hind or reduce its price to 800 because that’s what it’s currently worth.

- Tunguska tracking is broken, unit is fairly unusable currently

- Black Eagle turret ring is at the same spot as tracking weapons target causing Sheridans and Humvee TOWs to two shot the tank 

- Air in general is really annoying. They’re inaccurate but have huge range meaning you can get plinked at across the map indefinitely. I swear their guns used to have way less range, they seem to be able to fire almost twice as far now and are three times more annoying to deal with since now they outrange everything with their machine guns and have bottomless clips so eventually something will hit you. 

- Add a script that doesn’t allow Guard55 to purchase snipers 

 

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13 hours ago, Kickmofo said:

AFK time and time again. Can we please get a script that kicks a player that doesn't move for more the 2 mins?

@dblaney1make a script that kicks a soldier with 0 points that doesn't move for 3 mins and ~10min for afk with advanced characters/in tanks then I can retire :biggrin:

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On 2/13/2020 at 1:23 PM, Threve said:

I've recommended this before. I never played with the Toxin Tractor but I would recommend making it the exact same stats as the Zippo so people don't complain about it (again).

 


Aim for the head, excellent advice. Thank you.

That's excellent advice indeed. Love aiming for the head.

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