A Path Beyond Changing CY repair

[des1206]

Right now, the Construction Yard auto repairs buildings. Defenses get repaired at a good rate, but main buildings repair very slowly. I think this was balanced on purpose to encourage attacker and make the game more fun.

 

The idea of a CY is that - If you manage to repel a wave of attackers, the buildings can fix themselves during the breathing period before the next wave of attacks, and you are freed to do other stuff. However, right now I feel that main buildings repair at such a slow rate that there is almost no point to self-repair. Nobody just leave a damaged building alone, more often than not people always switch character to repair it. But making main buildings repair faster will make the game less fun and encourage turtling.

 

Is there anyway to do a delayed-repair logic to CY? It a building gets damaged, auto-repair won't start until 15 seconds without being damaged, but it will repair faster than it is now. This way, CY can do its job effectively without discouraging attackers. 

[Einstein]

Thats an interesting thought for sure, and worth discussing. I would like to hear some opinions on this mosly because it isn't brought up very much. Also, check your PMs pls

[FRAYDO]

I can't speak for the scripts gurus, but if someone can pull of a delayed-repair logic it would be a good idea. In the C&C Universe we can pretend that 15 second delay is the Commander finding the Repair icon on the sidebar and clicking on the damaged structures.

[Jeod]

The CY repair is good enough to halt lone wolfs who decide that while the entire enemy army is busy fighting off a tank rush, they can sneak in and finish off the refinery with one captain or rifle soldier. I say leave it as it is. Introducing delay-repair would cause a whole bunch of new balance issues because the current system, though slow, buys time for the team to respond to sneaky rushes etc. It promotes skill.

[Einstein]

I can't speak for the scripts gurus, but if someone can pull of a delayed-repair logic....

 

I would think that its already possible to do because this is how infantry healing currently works. I would imagine that the code would be very similar for structures to do the same.

 

Good point though Jeod. There is always a trade-off and I was wondering who would bring one out.

[delta]

Nobody just leave a damaged building alone, more often than not people always switch character to repair it.

 

Huh, actually I do just that if the building isn't below around 2/3 of its max health. Usually there will be something else that I think demands my attention besides repairing.

[des1206]

The CY repair is good enough to halt lone wolfs who decide that while the entire enemy army is busy fighting off a tank rush, they can sneak in and finish off the refinery with one captain or rifle soldier. I say leave it as it is. Introducing delay-repair would cause a whole bunch of new balance issues because the current system, though slow, buys time for the team to respond to sneaky rushes etc. It promotes skill.

 

Lone wolves who sneak in while the rest of the army is distracted should be rewarded for being strategic in his use of diversion though.

Edited November 2, 2016 by des1206

[Alstar]

I'd rather have an option for ConYard to allow reconstruction of destroyed buildings (not defences), now that would certainly made it more viable. But would also be annoying on maps like ridge or KOTG.

 

And "lone wolfs should be rewarded" is 50/50 because it would either promote split tactics or promote solo play. Knowing part of playerbase it would go the 2nd way. Also, sneak tactics already exist and are not hard to pull off even with enemy con yards doin their jobs.

[Pyryle]

I'd like to see a function where each major structure has a special switch that can only be activated by technicians/engineers, where activating it is akin to starting repair ticks on the structure as it would in actual RA. It will of course be a supplement to the technician's current repair speed, but utilizing this functionality will cost the player a certain percentage of their credits in relation to the structure's value. 

[Einstein]

Now that is RA-listic!

[Jeod]

I'd like to see a function where each major structure has a special switch that can only be activated by technicians/engineers, where activating it is akin to starting repair ticks on the structure as it would in actual RA. It will of course be a supplement to the technician's current repair speed, but utilizing this functionality will cost the player a certain percentage of their credits in relation to the structure's value. 

 

It sounds good on paper but the fact is that it takes away from the military force of the team. The game has a small playerbase as it currently is. You have to be wary of the consequences of promoting new features like this which would take away more fighting power from the teams.

 

I say that, instead of changing the conyard repair mechanic--and this assumes that something must be changed--give technician and engineer a repair speed boost if the conyard is alive. If anything is to be promoted, you should be aiming to get more feet on the battlefield more quickly. As it stands now, the conyard's mechanic can easily be ignored by an enemy team with 4-5 tanks rushing a specific building.

[JigglyJie]

The (non) Construction Yard as it stands is just a magnet for point whoring because it's a rather large structure and has a boatload of health. I would like to keep the current mechanic but I also like the idea of it being able to "rebuild" structures. I think it is worth a shot in trying to implement and experiment with this mechanic. For example, if a team loses say their Refinery, their chances of winning and indeed survival is greatly reduced but if your Construction Yard is alive, perhaps there could be a 'timer' of some sort that would bring the building back online. Another similar idea would be that the CY would allow players to pool their credits at a terminal to allow the reconstruction, this would also be time-limited so players cannot just constantly rebuy. I personally think minor defences such as Flame Towers or Pillboxes should utilise this mechanic as well but not Tesla Coils or Gap Generators. You may ask 'but JigglyJie, wouldn't this devalue attacking and promote camping?' Not at all. All buildings would have their separate timers and/or credit threshold. Not to mention these buildings would still be down so the attackers could go straight for the heart and shut down the CY completely, the enemy team would be in chaos in trying to make sense of what's happening, not to mention the potential point lead. However I think it would also reduce the possibility of people leaving once a Refinery goes down, the Silo addition whilst nice, doesn't solve the problem.

 

Granted this could have some flaws and other questions, heck I don't even know if this would be even possible but I think it's an idea worth exploring.

[Jeod]

The (non) Construction Yard as it stands is just a magnet for point whoring because it's a rather large structure and has a boatload of health. I would like to keep the current mechanic but I also like the idea of it being able to "rebuild" structures. I think it is worth a shot in trying to implement and experiment with this mechanic. For example, if a team loses say their Refinery, their chances of winning and indeed survival is greatly reduced but if your Construction Yard is alive, perhaps there could be a 'timer' of some sort that would bring the building back online. Another similar idea would be that the CY would allow players to pool their credits at a terminal to allow the reconstruction, this would also be time-limited so players cannot just constantly rebuy. I personally think minor defences such as Flame Towers or Pillboxes should utilise this mechanic as well but not Tesla Coils or Gap Generators. You may ask 'but JigglyJie, wouldn't this devalue attacking and promote camping?' Not at all. All buildings would have their separate timers and/or credit threshold. Not to mention these buildings would still be down so the attackers could go straight for the heart and shut down the CY completely, the enemy team would be in chaos in trying to make sense of what's happening, not to mention the potential point lead. However I think it would also reduce the possibility of people leaving once a Refinery goes down, the Silo addition whilst nice, doesn't solve the problem.

 

Granted this could have some flaws and other questions, heck I don't even know if this would be even possible but I think it's an idea worth exploring.

 

Zunnie from MP-Gaming attempted this sort of mechanic a few years ago and it was never fully implemented. I don't know if it was buggy, determined to be unbalanced, or what. I do vaguely recall that there were problems with the AI Ore Truck after a refinery was rebuilt. Some of the veterans here can expand on the details.

[moonsense715]

The "rebuild buildings if CY is alive" mechanic is done and live on the Imperial Age server. You can check it out right now if you want to.

[ganein14]

The only downside to rebuilding buildings is that it can draw rounds on for a while. The only way one could win without taking out the con yard in IA's maps would be through points or the ped. (Which is usually in the basement of the con yard, as is the MCT)

[devilslayersbane]

How about using some of the superweapon logic here? Essentially, there's a terminal in the rather useless upstairs of the CY where you can buy a "building repair beacon" that has a 2-min timer before it completes the process. This beacon would also be able to be disabled by enemy technicians and engineers. Once finished the building would come back online with about 30% health, requiring an technician or engineer to fully repair it. It should work only when placed within 5 meters of the MCT. 

[Threve]

 Change the C.Y.

No.

 

It's fine as it is honestly. It merely prevents a disorganized team from attacking on and off and getting a building kill or 2 because no one repaired. I don't see the problem with it at all.

[MPRA2]

I can't speak for the scripts gurus, but if someone can pull of a delayed-repair logic it would be a good idea. In the C&C Universe we can pretend that 15 second delay is the Commander finding the Repair icon on the sidebar and clicking on the damaged structures.

Since the repair icon is so small on the sidebar, It'll be a perfect fit!

I for one second the idea of the conyard repair logic. #MakeConyardsGreatAgain

[delta]

I posted this idea back on the BHP forum...it was to just get rid of the Construction Yards and just let all buildings self-repair. So yeah, that way on a bunch of maps you don't need to run out to repair that damaged Pillbox at the very edge of your base. Also, not having a Construction Yard would allow your base to be more compact and easier to defend. I don't think I ever saw any response as to whether people liked this idea or disliked it, but anyway here it is again.

[des1206]

I posted this idea back on the BHP forum...it was to just get rid of the Construction Yards and just let all buildings self-repair. So yeah, that way on a bunch of maps you don't need to run out to repair that damaged Pillbox at the very edge of your base. Also, not having a Construction Yard would allow your base to be more compact and easier to defend. I don't think I ever saw any response as to whether people liked this idea or disliked it, but anyway here it is again.

I would still like to get the CY in the game for the sake of Ralism. 

[ajikan1]

CY is okay for balance. And speaking of big maps, it requires indeed a good amount of players to defend: If a good team of attackers make a nice move, they can destroy any defense (turret or tower), if they fail, that turret can be easily repaired so the team should prepare the aftermath from the other team soon. 

Also I think as the CY is active, it should be able to self-repair as well. The repair rate on main buildings doesn't really matter for me, imo.

Edited November 28, 2016 by ajikan1

[FRAYDO]

+1 to the CY self-repairing. It just makes sense.

[des1206]

Problem is that many team-mates often need to change character to repair, costing extra $ and time. What is the point of the CY if I still need to swapped out of my volkov for an engin after repelling an attack? I just repair a bit faster.

[harvester]

What is the point of the CY if I still need to swapped out of my volkov for an engin after repelling an attack?

This is exactly why the CY doesn't need a change in repair rate. People will need some effort to use the repair classes instead of letting the CY taking away the important role of the game: repairing. This makes attacks from the enemy more rewarding since it delays you into repair duty or spend a bit of credits if there are no repairmen around. The Construction Yard is merely to slow down disorganized attacks or other small rushes from killing a building.

 

If you are a Volkov, usually players with cheaper classes will voluntarily be the engineer. If the team is full of Volkovs, then they should realize that character variety is important.

[Raap]

The persistent self repair mechanic has another main purpose not really related to repairing damage; An active Construction Yard raises the TTK on all structures, excluding the Construction Yard itself.

 

Now, I do think that the self repair functionality is not very high right now and that it could do with a bit of a change to encourage prioritizing the Construction Yard as a target. Without upsetting balance, this can happen by splitting buildings into three groups;

 

Group one, slow auto repairs (current repair rate): Construction Yards should be the only thing in here, granting it minor slow auto repairs more for consistency purposes and general QoL.

Group two, slow auto repairs (current repair rate), with 60 second delayed repair rate increase: Base defenses should not become too much harder to destroy in active combat due to balance concerns, but they are easily forgotten and a burden to repair since they are rarely close to a purchase terminal. Therefore adding a delayed repair effect to base defenses, that boosts the repair rate by ~100-200% after one minute, seems like a logical tweak to gameplay.

Group three, slightly faster auto repairs (~50% more than the current repair rate): Anything that isn't a Construction Yard or base defense can be placed here. The net effect of the change would simply be a raised TTK on core buildings, that will encourage prioritizing the Construction Yard, or improved focus fire from attacking units, or C4 based destruction (which has become a bit of a rarity in Delta due to the ease of destroying buildings with conventional weapons). As for why no delayed repair rate increase here? I personally think base repairs should still be something a team has to look out for, and not forget about entirely, because otherwise poor defense attempts don't get punished enough.

 

The above changes would change the overal APB Delta gameplay by slightly reducing the base destruction rate, and encouraging a bit more use of tactics. Maps without a Construction Yard would of course not be affected, but then that's a good thing, since the presence of a Construction Yard will actually start to be noticeable, like not having a Radar Dome... Which leaves just Power Plants out as the odd building everyone can do without, currently, but that's another topic entirely.

 

To counterbalance these changes, the Construction Yard health pool can be lowered to match similar structures.

 

Edit: I feel that prioritizing the CY as a target is good for APB gameplay. Currently the priority is almost always the War Factory, which then cripples the losing team and things generally snowball from there. By adding the CY as a bit of a "buffer" in between, you prolong matches slightly and give less good teams another chance at finding their feet.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Raap

[KevinLancaster]

Increased CY priority would also be in line with the original RTS gameplay.

[Wallywood]

I had this idea for TSR, What if having a CY ment that if you lost certain buildings the CY could act in a supporting role for the building that was lost. 

 

Example: if you had a CY but lost your

 

WF - you could receive reforcements every "X" amount of time

Ref = Team donation every "X" amount of time

Bar= could still allow "X" unit to be bought

Helipad =  "X" unit could arrive every "X" amount of time

PP= could allow for AP base defenses to stay on when in low power mode. (Current low power mode turns off defenses)

 

along with self building repair

[MPRA2]

one of my original ideas were; either have a repair terminal inside the conyard which costs some good amount of money (example being: $2700) to activate an "advanced repair system" timed ability that lasts for 3 minutes, and has a cooldown of 7 minutes (gives the ability some balance in terms of spam reduction, and gives a slightly hefty price to keep your defenses up and running) kind of acts as a "golden wrench" of sorts, but repairs defenses 65% of that which a GW can in 1 lifetime, and 50% for main base structures. (again all example percentages) losing the power plant (if there is one) renders the terminal locked and unavailable to use (which will make power plants a bigger target, and something more valuable to defend on low tech maps with a conyard).

or, the conyard can just repair buildings 20% faster, and defenses 50% faster, and if taking damage, will not allow any building to be repaired by the conyard until it stops receiving damage for 20 seconds so it can begin repairs again I just want defenses to be kept alive longer........ (;-

Edited December 14, 2016 by MPRA2

[Wallywood]

one of my original ideas were; either have a repair terminal inside the conyard which costs some good amount of money (example being: $2700) to activate an "advanced repair system" timed ability that lasts for 3 minutes, and has a cooldown of 7 minutes (gives the ability some balance in terms of spam reduction, and gives a slightly hefty price to keep your defenses up and running) kind of acts as a "golden wrench" of sorts, but repairs defenses 65% of that which a GW can in 1 lifetime, and 50% for main base structures. (again all example percentages) losing the power plant (if there is one) renders the terminal locked and unavailable to use (which will make power plants a bigger target, and something more valuable to defend on low tech maps with a conyard).

or, the conyard can just repair buildings 20% faster, and defenses 50% faster, and if taking damage, will not allow any building to be repaired by the conyard until it stops receiving damage for 20 seconds so it can begin repairs again I just want defenses to be kept alive longer........ (;-

I'm digging that idea but what if we added a stage system to it, example: 

 

Team Donate 1500 for stage one repair - 15% repair rate

                       3000 for stage two repair - 30 % repair rate 

                       5000 for stage three repair - 45% repair rate 

 

Or something along those lines with an adjustment to the rates of course 

[MPRA2]

 

one of my original ideas were; either have a repair terminal inside the conyard which costs some good amount of money (example being: $2700) to activate an "advanced repair system" timed ability that lasts for 3 minutes, and has a cooldown of 7 minutes (gives the ability some balance in terms of spam reduction, and gives a slightly hefty price to keep your defenses up and running) kind of acts as a "golden wrench" of sorts, but repairs defenses 65% of that which a GW can in 1 lifetime, and 50% for main base structures. (again all example percentages) losing the power plant (if there is one) renders the terminal locked and unavailable to use (which will make power plants a bigger target, and something more valuable to defend on low tech maps with a conyard).

or, the conyard can just repair buildings 20% faster, and defenses 50% faster, and if taking damage, will not allow any building to be repaired by the conyard until it stops receiving damage for 20 seconds so it can begin repairs again I just want defenses to be kept alive longer........ (;-

I'm digging that idea but what if we added a stage system to it, example: 

 

Team Donate 1500 for stage one repair - 15% repair rate

                       3000 for stage two repair - 30 % repair rate 

                       5000 for stage three repair - 45% repair rate 

 

Or something along those lines with an adjustment to the rates of course 

 

so a bit like upgrades to the conyard like what kaskins and dblaney are doing with Imperial Age?

never fully thought about that because of balance issues but that seems like a better idea than scripting out a timed repair sequence and different values for each building during that sequence.